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Agaliha
July 1st, 2008, 05:07 PM
I swear there was a story similar to this in the recent past?


NEW YORK (AP) -- City hospital officials said they were shocked by surveillance footage showing a woman falling from her chair, writhing on the floor and dying as workers failed to help for more than an hour.

Surveillance video shows a woman lying on the hospital floor for almost an hour before anyone helped her.

Esmin Green, 49, had been waiting in the emergency room for nearly 24 hours when she toppled from her seat at 5:32 a.m. June 19, falling face-down on the floor.

She was dead by 6:35, when someone on the medical staff, flagged down by a person in the waiting room, finally approached, nudged Green with her foot and gently prodded her shoulder, as if to wake her.

The staffer left and returned with someone wearing a white lab coat who examined her and summoned help.

Until the staffer's appearance, Green's collapse barely caused a ripple. Other patients waiting a few feet away didn't react. Security guards and a member of the hospital's staff appeared to notice her prone body at least three times but made no visible attempt to see whether she needed help.

One guard didn't even leave his chair, rolling it around a corner to stare at the body and then rolling away a few moments later.

Green, who had been involuntarily committed the previous morning and had waited overnight for a bed, stopped moving about half an hour after she collapsed.

The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which runs the hospital, said six people have been fired as a result of the incident, including security personnel and members of the medical staff.

Green's medical records raised the possibility that someone might have tried to cover up the circumstances of the death.

They contained notations indicating that she was up and about during the time in which the video shows her dying on the floor.

Go here for the full story! (there's a pic too)
(http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/01/hospital.death.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)
Watch the surveillance video (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/01/hospital.death.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCVideo)
Someone was right there and didn't do anything.

I really think if someone intervened sooner she might be alive right now. I mean, she was laying face down for at least an hour!

ETA:
Other articles about this story,found here (http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news;_ylt=A0oGkxQ.qWpIVwkAlbxXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=Esmin%20Green%20death%20hospital&y=Search&fr2=tab-web&fr=ytff1-yff2).

Rudas Starblaze
July 1st, 2008, 05:17 PM
but then again, she was involuntarily committed. which means not by her choice. perhaps she wanted to die thus why no help was given?

Agaliha
July 1st, 2008, 05:34 PM
but then again, she was involuntarily committed. which means not by her choice. perhaps she wanted to die thus why no help was given?

:wtf:

It's still the hospitals duty to try to save her life, regardless of the fact that she might not wanted to live. Which we don't know, it didn't say she was suicidal.

She looked like she was convulsing a bit, and then laying face down unconscious. Someone was right there, reading or doing something. There was also surveillance. People saw this and just didn't do anything...she was laying there for an hour. That's not acceptable.

bellamandu
July 1st, 2008, 05:39 PM
same thing happened to my mom. she was in the ICU unit of all places too. basically, she was taking her meds along with what the nurses were giving her because for whatever reason she was hallucinating and thought the docs were trying to kill her... blacked out, busted her head open and bled out, the nurses didnt find her til about an hour later. thus turning her into a vegetable and she died a few days later. on the death certificate they wrote "cause unknown"

and just to think she was recovering. they were planning on moving her to a normal room and hopefully discharging her in a week or so if this hadnt have happened.

Glowy
July 1st, 2008, 05:39 PM
I agree that this is unacceptable.

Twinkle
July 1st, 2008, 05:39 PM
Six staffers lost their jobs along with a couple of security guards, I think.

Honestly, what they did should be some sort of crime.

Rudas Starblaze
July 1st, 2008, 05:44 PM
*shrugs*

does the surveillance have audio? thats the only way anyone will know for sure. is it a full 24 hours long? or just the last hour or so cut into a couple minutes? theres just too much that needs reviewed and investigated before i make a judgement call on the security or medical staff via new press as the news always makes things more than what they really are just to attract attantion.

Agaliha
July 1st, 2008, 05:57 PM
*shrugs*

does the surveillance have audio? thats the only way anyone will know for sure. is it a full 24 hours long? or just the last hour or so cut into a couple minutes? theres just too much that needs reviewed and investigated before i make a judgement call on the security or medical staff via new press as the news always makes things more than what they really are just to attract attantion.

Seriously? It seems pretty clear cut to me, the hospital f-ed up. I think in this case they're (the news) not hyping things up to get ratings.

From the article:
---Other patients waiting a few feet away didn't react. Security guards and a member of the hospital's staff appeared to notice her prone body at least three times but made no visible attempt to see whether she needed help.
---One guard didn't even leave his chair, rolling it around a corner to stare at the body and then rolling away a few moments later.
---The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which runs the hospital, said six people have been fired as a result of the incident, including security personnel and members of the medical staff.

The fact of the mater is she was face down in the floor for over an hour. Even if they assumed she was asleep someone one should have checked. It's the hospitals duty not to let or allow people to die on their watch unless they're DNR or special circumstances. She was involuntary, which means she was in their care and they failed to do their job. AND it appears, if you read the full article, this place had other issues with care and screwing up. Even if she did something to take her own life (this is pure speculation), say sneak some pills and OD, they'd still need to treat her and try to save her life. The hospital can't make judgment calls and say, oh she (maybe, again speculation) wanted to die, so lets just leave her dying in the waiting room for an hour and be done with her.

Agaliha
July 1st, 2008, 06:07 PM
More info:


Lawyers suing a New York hospital have released video that allegedly shows a patient lying ignored on the floor in the psychiatric emergency unit.

The New York Health and Hospitals Corp., which operates Kings County, said that three people, the head of psychiatry, the doctor on duty in the emergency unit at the time of Green's death, and the head of security, have been discharged. Two nurses and a security guard have been suspended and may be fired after hearings.
http://politicom.moldova.org/stiri/eng/131401/
Worse than that, the surveillance tape suggests the hospital staff may have falsified medical charts to cover up the lack of treatment. At about 6 a.m. Green is still seen on the floor, while her medical chart said she was "awake, up and about, went to the bathroom."
http://wcco.com/national/hospital.video.dead.2.761456.html

Rudas Starblaze
July 1st, 2008, 06:17 PM
Seriously? It seems pretty clear cut to me, the hospital f-ed up. I think in this case they're (the news) not hyping things up to get ratings.

From the article:
---Other patients waiting a few feet away didn't react. Security guards and a member of the hospital's staff appeared to notice her prone body at least three times but made no visible attempt to see whether she needed help.
---One guard didn't even leave his chair, rolling it around a corner to stare at the body and then rolling away a few moments later.
---The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation, which runs the hospital, said six people have been fired as a result of the incident, including security personnel and members of the medical staff.

The fact of the mater is she was face down in the floor for over an hour. Even if they assumed she was asleep someone one should have checked. It's the hospitals duty not to let or allow people to die on their watch unless they're DNR or special circumstances. She was involuntary, which means she was in their care and they failed to do their job. AND it appears, if you read the full article, this place had other issues with care and screwing up. Even if she did something to take her own life (this is pure speculation), say sneak some pills and OD, they'd still need to treat her and try to save her life. The hospital can't make judgment calls and say, oh she (maybe, again speculation) wanted to die, so lets just leave her dying in the waiting room for an hour and be done with her.

im sorry, but theres something wrong with the article.... they arent saying something. prolly due to HIPAA laws which provides client/patient confidentiality. so theyre only giving a very small portion of what was really going on.


Green, who had been involuntarily committed the previous morning and had waited overnight for a bed, stopped moving about half an hour after she collapsed.


here is the definition of Involuntary Commitment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment).

people dont get involuntarily committed to a public hospital... i should know, i work in mental health and have done such procedures... she was obviously suicidal, she prolly already did something to secure her death in which case there was nothing that could be medically done to save her (been through this scenario in RL). there were obviously others in the waiting room waiting to be helped. perhaps there were no rooms available? the article isnt telling us anything in my point of view. just pointing out what happened at the end which isnt enough for me to judge on.

SphinYote
July 1st, 2008, 06:17 PM
More should have been done.

But...some things to consider. It was a mental institution: People do act, to get attention, people do hallucinate.

They do in a nursing home as well. What is the extended history of this woman? Is she like the woman at the nursing home my grandma was at, who spent the whole day, days upon days yelling for help regardless of whether a nurse was there or not? Or like my grandma, who kept pulling the emergency cord for a nurse because she forgot she'd just gone to the bathroom five minutes ago and thought she still had to? Had this woman put on an act before?

Nursing homes, hospitals, mental institutions--all very understaffed and overworked. The examples cited above, personally I think that there should be more staff, more individualized care, but unfortunately there isn't, and people have to figure out what takes priority....and screw up all too often....And yes, sometimes people just stop caring, which is the most horrific tragedy.

It doesn't excuse what happened, she should have been checked, just to make sure. But, therein lies the rub: if she had a history, like the woman in the nursing home, yelling for help all the time (who probably wasn't all there either and should have ahd some kind of psychological intervention which there were no resources for), should the nurses respond to her every five minutes, or get things done, or just take a break and ignore? Help-lady didn't get many people responding to her, and after a while the nurses started ignoring my grandma's cord-pulls in the nursing home, though they started responding again when much to their chagrin there were a few times that weren't a false alarm (300 lb 102 year old woman who can't walk well and is prone to falling and has diahrhea is hard to clean up....).

I don't like this....what happened shoudn't have, and at least according to the media portrayal it does indeed look like a case of neglect....but until more information comes to light about the woman's history, I think I'm going to be withholding judgment, too...

And pray that if ever confronted with a similar situation I have the courage and compassion to help and not just be afraid and hope someone else will intervene....

Yote

Rudas Starblaze
July 1st, 2008, 06:19 PM
More info:

ok, strike my last post then! :lol:

Infinite Grey
July 1st, 2008, 06:25 PM
I hope she wasn't there under insurance. :weirdsmil

Meadhbh
July 1st, 2008, 07:42 PM
I agree that there should have been more done for her. But you have to remember what kind of hospital she was in. Keeping this in mind the other people who did react where people who have some sort of mental distrubance. I never heard what this woman is in for. There are mental illnesses that could cause her to behave that way. Maybe she had done something like that in the past and so the staff wasn't all that concerned for a while.

brymble
July 4th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading here! I'm disgusted and appalled that people would actually defend such gross neglect that results in death as "okay" just because it was a mental hospital and those people are, like, you know, crazy so who cares if they lie face down for an hour, probably just trying to get attention. Disgusting! How can people get up in the morning and face their own reflections with such repulsive attitudes!

Mental health patients are human beings with needs and feelings, and the fact that someone is involuntarily committed or that it's a mental institution does NOT relieve a fascility of it's legal and human responsibility to provide safe, competent care. Are mental patients less human, less deserving, less real than others? Do they not count? Oh, she's a mental patient? Don't bother, just poke her with your foot and get on with your day, then, it's not like she's a human being or anything. She deserves to die alone on the floor for acting up and getting committed in the first place, crazy old bat. Yeah, that's exactly how it comes across. Can you really in good conscience go through your lives with such an attitude about your fellow human beings?

While the compassionless wastes of air roll their eyes and say, eh, doesn't matter, she was just some crazy lady and she was involuntarily taken to a nut house so she must have been suicidal anyway, the rest of you ask yourself, would your apathy be moved if you knew she had a name, a family, a community, a life, that she was committed to and loved and loved in return?

Because she did. Her name was Esmin Green. She had a family in Jamaica to whom she sent money, who cannot bear to watch the video you shrug your shoulders at, as the mother they loved lay dying and neglected by the system that was supposed to save and protect her. She was active and loved in her community and her church. She loved and was loved. She was a real person, who died for no reason, devalued and shrugged off by the system that was supposed to heal and protect her.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/03/hospital.woman.death/index.html

There is NEVER anything that justifies this gross, inhuman treatment of someone in need. SHAME ON YOU who just shrug it off as if it didn't matter. Somebody's mother died on that floor!

Xanion
July 4th, 2008, 02:51 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading here! I'm disgusted and appalled that people would actually defend such gross neglect that results in death as "okay" just because it was a mental hospital and those people are, like, you know, crazy so who cares if they lie face down for an hour, probably just trying to get attention. Disgusting! How can people get up in the morning and face their own reflections with such repulsive attitudes!

Mental health patients are human beings with needs and feelings, and the fact that someone is involuntarily committed or that it's a mental institution does NOT relieve a fascility of it's legal and human responsibility to provide safe, competent care. Are mental patients less human, less deserving, less real than others? Do they not count? Oh, she's a mental patient? Don't bother, just poke her with your foot and get on with your day, then, it's not like she's a human being or anything. She deserves to die alone on the floor for acting up and getting committed in the first place, crazy old bat. Yeah, that's exactly how it comes across. Can you really in good conscience go through your lives with such an attitude about your fellow human beings?

While the compassionless wastes of air roll their eyes and say, eh, doesn't matter, she was just some crazy lady and she was involuntarily taken to a nut house so she must have been suicidal anyway, the rest of you ask yourself, would your apathy be moved if you knew she had a name, a family, a community, a life, that she was committed to and loved and loved in return?

Because she did. Her name was Esmin Green. She had a family in Jamaica to whom she sent money, who cannot bear to watch the video you shrug your shoulders at, as the mother they loved lay dying and neglected by the system that was supposed to save and protect her. She was active and loved in her community and her church. She loved and was loved. She was a real person, who died for no reason, devalued and shrugged off by the system that was supposed to heal and protect her.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/03/hospital.woman.death/index.html

There is NEVER anything that justifies this gross, inhuman treatment of someone in need. SHAME ON YOU who just shrug it off as if it didn't matter. Somebody's mother died on that floor!



:thumbsup:

SphinYote
July 14th, 2008, 05:40 PM
I can't believe what I'm reading here! I'm disgusted and appalled that people would actually defend such gross neglect that results in death as "okay" just because it was a mental hospital and those people are, like, you know, crazy so who cares if they lie face down for an hour, probably just trying to get attention. Disgusting! How can people get up in the morning and face their own reflections with such repulsive attitudes!....

Just hoping that wasn't directed at my post, since I was in no way defending the system, but explaining why its so screwed up.

The fact is, they don't have enough resources. The fact is, there are too few people who are trained to deal with mental health issues adequately, so they are forced to hire underqualified people who are then overworked and underpaid.

Human compassion can only be stretched so thin, before the aides drop like she did.

I care very deeply about what happened. I know how screwed up the system is. I've never been in a mental hospital, but given my state at various points this past semester, and how panic attacks screw with your thinking, I have feared that I may have been closer to that than I would like to admit (but who knows....panic attacks screw with your thinking like that). But things like this are one of the many reasons that make people afraid to seek treatment, or more prone to avoiding certain types.

Believe me, stories like this scare the hell out of me for the sake of my loved ones and the sake of myself. Nursing homes tend to be not much better than mental institutions, I've witnessed that firsthand.

I've stated the problems with the system, NOT a defense of the system or what happened. Stating the problems is one step in finding the solutions and making sure things like this don't happen again.

Edit: I have also stated what I have seen people do to get attention. I am not a nurse, aide or any such thing. I wouldn't be able to tell when people are cting or not. Most nurses can't either.

Brymble, are you a nurse, that you would be able to look at a person and decide whether or not a person as acting? Would you want to be the one to make a decision: hold this one person's hand constantly, or go help other people who also desparately need help? If you are in the field, then I commend you for doing something about it, but if you are in fact inYeah, people die.volved with helping people, then you of all people should understand the life, mental health and wellbeing, and even death decisions these people have to make every day.

Yes, people die. Sometimes its due to gross negligence. In this case it seems like it may well have been. But, to use the nursinghome example in my original thread.

Imagine you're on shift. You hear the woman who always cries for help crying for help again. Do you go over to see what's wrong? Or do you help the person who you know for certain needs to take her medicine/be rolled over to avoid bedsores/is complaining of stomach pains? Another person pulls the cord in another room, to ask for assistance. DO you assume its an emergency, or just another person who needs to use the bathroom (in the nursing home my grandma was at, you could go by and see the light blinking when you came in, and when you left a half an hour later, because they did not have enough people to deal with everything. You can't get enough people if there are no applicants....)

Now, assume you're doing your rounds. You see someone collapsed on the floor, but you see nurses standing there (the negligent ones, in this case, maybe). Do you stop your rounds, or do you assume the situation is being taken care of, since other people are present, and go on?

Unless you've been there, you have little room to talk. I'm not defending or condoning, just stating the facts, and even I an see that there are decisions that I would not want to be responsible for, if I chose wrong. In that respect I'm a coward, yes, and I do question myself at times, wondering what good am I...The question is...what good are you doing in the world, that you can criticize with such absolute certainty? I don't mean that in a mean way, though its coming out rather poorly....most people are more involved than I am, and I feel like a bit of a leech lately, so it may just be my own defensiveness coming out again....but...what good are any of us doing who are not in the professions, that we can criticize with such certainty....?

Yote