The power of suggestion and spritual warfare

[cheddarsox]

I was raised Catholic. The practice of it can be pretty superstitious...the wearing of medals the sprinkling with holy water, the saying of prayers to ward off evil, etc. Not unlike some of the pagan/magic practices.

I spent a lot of time as a Catholic youngster worrying about being posessed by the devil, getting snared by witchcraft, being fooled by Satan. We were told to be constantly aware of those dangers, and that the more we prayed, sacrificed, got closer to Christ, the more subject we were to these attacks.

Now, the other day I went to a religion forum and a college aged Catholic man had had a passing fancy for a Wiccan girl...found himself lusting for her. Now, it seems that he's decided she must have cast a spell on him because he can't stop thinking about sex, so what can he do to "Get Wicca off my back"!

It sounds to me like he is blaming his lust issues on HER religion. The fact that his faith condemns lust/masturbation...and he is finding himself tempted, apparently means she must have cast a spell on him...so now other catholics are giving him prayers to say, blessings to perform, and all jumping on the bandwagon of how evil witchcraft is and how this guy is in deep spiritual danger, etc.

I recognize his thinking...I was raised on it. When my mind went somewhere the faith said it shouldn't...I started looking around for the devil to blame, and rather than work on MY issues...started praying and dousing everything in holy water, or doing bizarre things to prove my devotion to Christ (like cutting crosses into my flesh)

But I know many pagan do believe in spells, curses, and spiritual warfare, they talk about it all the time.

After I left Catholicism, I stopped being attacked...proof (other Catholics claim) that satan only attacks those who belong to the true church and doesn't waste his time on the lost. I think that once those paranoid thoughts weren't being pumped into my head, my real life experience was that no one was putting a curse on me.

So...from the pagan aspect...what's the word on spiritual warfare? And, if this Wicca chick actually put a spell on him making him lust after her, what can the poor guy do to cool his jets? And why, now that I am practicing pantheism...do I not experience such attacks anymore?

Are these things literal, or just ways that people use to describe/explain regular life experiences?

cheddar

[TygerTyger]

She made the guy feel horny! A simple hormonal reaction that doesn't need any supernatural intervention of any kind - it happens to me a lot but then I'm an artist so I tend to notice pretty girls (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it).

Of course, Catholicism has a big problem with sex and with women being the source of all sexual matters; women too! It is not surprising that Catcholics are quick to point the finger of accusation at the witch as she makes an easy scapegoat; first she's pagan, second she's female - practically self-confessed demon there your grace!

Of course this also means that the man doesn't have to admit that the weakness lies with himself as well, so much the better then.

Then there's the rule by fear tactic. The Catholic church has done this throughout history, threatening everyone with damnation f they didn't do this or that thing, didn't think in this way, didn't give all their money to them, etc. Without the bogeyman though the Pope would have precious little to scare people with, especially as the Inquisition can no longer practice their persuasive manners!

With regards to the bloke and the young lady, do you think that she was attracted to him anyway? Is he the kind of hunk women would swoon over? Did he make an advance and get repulsed and is now easing his hurt and getting his revenge by putting all the blame on her?

As to your other question, perhaps it is because you are no longer made to feel guilty for existing, for being a perpeptual sinner, for being in danger of going to Hell, for being too weak, that you no longer bring these attacks upon yourself?

[Artiste-LiLi]

Oh he's possessed and under a spell all right...................in the possession of and under the spell of testosterone and other normal natural hormones. He needs to get real and accept that he is a red-blooded normal male who has the hornies for a cute girlie. Nothing wrong with that. As long as he accepts it for what it is and does not do anything he shouldn't (force et al) he should be fine. Being attracted to someone and wanting them sexually is a biological normality. Just cause he's horny doesn't mean he has to do something about it! If he is concerned about sinning ove this...then he does not have to have sex with her, he can not masturbate, he can turn his mind from lustful thoughts and he can pray for strength to have good control over his flesh. He shouldn't blame her for a normal biological response though.

I was Catholic for a time...so I won't even get started on that. ;)

[childofbast]

Huh. Interesting thoughts.

I myself rarely cast spells on others anyway, so do I practice spiritual warfare? No, not really. Others may... But I think I agree with everyone else. Some of the most powerful magic is inadvertently cast through our pheromones, hormones, and other such business.

~Melanie

[cheddarsox]

I'm certain my own demonic attacks were figments of my mind..me assigning supernatural causes to normal occurances due to the power of suggestion, and I expect the same thing is going on with this young man. As he is confronted with the realities of adulthood, and finds some in conflict with his faith, he decides the "witch" must be the reason.

He claims he keeps seeing "grey faces" and that she messages him a lot through facebook, so he knows it is due to her. I don't use facebook much, but can't you pretty much block anyone you want? He says she has a crush on him, not that she is leaving threats or anything, but that it is clear she's interested in him.

Of course now he's scared of her, because he knows how powerful her magic is...etc. etc and doesn't want to do anything to upset her and make it worse.

The problem of course is circular reasoning...you experience the stuff because you've been told you will, then you're told the only way to protect yourself is to use the faith, and that the attacks will get worse the more faithful you are...and that the only way to protect yourself it to use MORE faith...and thus increase the attacks.

Its a very sick form of brainwashing. I went through it with both my church and my family (nuts and abusive) growing up. Probably the reason I practice a totally bare bones, no supernatural, reality is all you get, religion now. I have to deal with enough evil people, no use inviting demons into my life as well.

cheddar

[childofbast]

Bit OT, but yeah, you can block anyone from seeing your facebook account.

~Melanie

[JadeNSC]

Of course, Catholicism has a big problem with sex and with women being the source of all sexual matters; women too! It is not surprising that Catcholics are quick to point the finger of accusation at the witch as she makes an easy scapegoat; first she's pagan, second she's female - practically self-confessed demon there your grace!

Yes, though I'd argue that the fact she's female has more to do with it than her religion. In more evangelical/very conservative circles women are warned to watch how they dress and act lest they tempt men into doing naughty things. The "naughty things" range from simple lust to sexual assault. To use a pun, the fact she's female was the first thing to damn her, the fact she identifies as Wiccan made her (even more) in league with Satan.

[Nitefalle]

I was raised Catholic but not to that degree! That is completely foreign to me, that sort of intensity. We were just go-to-church-on-sunday, say-your-prayers-before-bed Catholics, which is kinda funny if I think about it because my grandparents were totally old school Vatican 1 types of Catholics. I'm surprised we got off so lightly.

Anyway, this reminds me much of people who are Pagans and claim that everything bad that happens to them is a "psychic attack". They either don't want to take responsibility or admit that their luck just sucks and get on with their lives.

[cheddarsox]

I was raised Catholic but not to that degree! That is completely foreign to me, that sort of intensity. We were just go-to-church-on-sunday, say-your-prayers-before-bed Catholics, which is kinda funny if I think about it because my grandparents were totally old school Vatican 1 types of Catholics. I'm surprised we got off so lightly.

Anyway, this reminds me much of people who are Pagans and claim that everything bad that happens to them is a "psychic attack". They either don't want to take responsibility or admit that their luck just sucks and get on with their lives.


That is why I brought this situation here, because there are "paths" of paganism that are very, very like Catholicism...very ritualistic, very focused on the supernatural world over and above this one, very much about "spiritual warfare", though the term psychic attack, sheilding, etc are more likely to be used among pagans...the ideas are very similar.

So I was wondering how this might look to the other side, so to speak.

When I was a teen, in the Catholic church, and learning about it's theology..I kept thinking, this is the SAME magical stuff they warn us to avoid and have nothing to do with. Except that Catholics assume that all theirs is good magic, focused on the one good spirit and everything else, no matter the result, is bad magic.

[Nitefalle]

When I was a teen, in the Catholic church, and learning about it's theology..I kept thinking, this is the SAME magical stuff they warn us to avoid and have nothing to do with. Except that Catholics assume that all theirs is good magic, focused on the one good spirit and everything else, no matter the result, is bad magic.

*chuckles* It's always the same story, no matter the weapons. Catholicism does have some pretty crazy leaps of faith in there, and I always found the idea of transubstantiation a little gross. I have to go with the Protestants on that one - I prefer a symbolic sacrifice, not actual flesh and blood. I also always argued with my mom about the Holy Trinity. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also part of God, why are they three separate entities?

But personal past issues aside, I have seen evidence of other denominations thinking the same way. My sister is a born-again Christian and she thinks nothing of people speaking in tongues in her church, but thinks that Yoga is "bad" because it's linked in some ways to Hinduism (even though it's possible to find completely secular Yoga tapes and classes). I just don't get it.

[Tigerlily]

I just think it's so funny how Catholics and Orthodox Christians are so paranoid about witchcraft and so anti-Pagan but then they do things like protection prayers, blessing random trinkets to wear, sprinkling holy water, etc .

[tallwoman.9169]

Yeah, sounds a little "witchy" to me!!!! LOL! Charms and magickal potions. Well, well, well, maybe they are just a bit closet pagans.