vassago

[tabii]

i was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of the demon, Vassago. i was involved in a ritual involving him...and im jus tlooking for more information.

[MidnightSun]

Hmmm...no offense...but that sounds like something out of Charmed. :rolleyes:

[Twilight Garden]

This would probably be best suited for the Gods & Goddesses forum. I don't watch Charmed, but from what I've heard, MS, you're probably right. Anyway...

Try here. (http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/vassago.asp)
Or maybe here. (http://perdurabo10.tripod.com/themindofjamesdonahue/id215.html)

There really isn't that much info about him. You could proabaly find out more by looking a little deeper into Goetia.

One site says this about him:
"Vassago - (1) Prince. 26 Legions of Spirits. Discovers things hidden or lost. (2) The spirit of the crystal, who is invoked by the crystal gazer for the purposes of his art. (3) A mighty prince, of the nature of Agares, who declares things past, present and future, and discovers what has been lost or hidden. He is good by nature."

[Asherah]

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/vassago.asp

The above is a link which you may find interesting, or helpful.

[Twilight Garden]

Originally posted by Asherah
http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/vassago.asp

The above is a link which you may find interesting, or helpful. Isn't that the exact same link I posted earlier titled "Try here."? :nyah: Whatever. It's all good... or evil... or... nevermind. :D

[Asherah]

Originally posted by LunarMist
Isn't that the exact same link I posted earlier titled "Try here."? :nyah: Whatever. It's all good... or evil... or... nevermind. :D

I suppose it might have been. Sorry, we must have posted at the sametime.

[Caelin]

tabii,
I've heard of it, perhaps we've been reading the same book? I found a ritual involving summoning this in "Mastering Witchcraft: A Practical Guide for Witches, Warlocks and Covens" by Paul Huson (Perigee, 1970).

According to Huson, Vassago is one of the 72 demonic intelligences listed in the Lesser Key of Solomon and should be summoned in order to predict the future, or something. I'm not quite up to that page in his book yet, so I just skimmed through it.

Actually, I'm not so sure about how good Huson's book is, as I've never heard of a "witches' alphabet" before, and most other things I've read tend not to give you lists of curses and other means to harm other people. Neither do they concentrate overmuch on necromancy. Anybody else heard of/read this book?

-Caelin

[Sequoia]

Moving you over to Gods and Goddesses, you might get some more information there.

Also - I could be wrong, but this is my personal opinion: If you don't know what you're summoning/invoking. . . DO NOT SUMMON/INVOKE IT!!! ;) easiest way to find yourself in a lot of trouble!

oh, and if it hasn't been said, tabii. . . . Welcome :)

[phoenixsong]

Originally posted by Caelin
tabii,
I've heard of it, perhaps we've been reading the same book? I found a ritual involving summoning this in "Mastering Witchcraft: A Practical Guide for Witches, Warlocks and Covens" by Paul Huson (Perigee, 1970).
...snip...
Anybody else heard of/read this book?

-Caelin

I just heard of it recently. As far as I can tell, it was written by a satanist, and it's quoted in a fundamentalist witch-bashing article on a website I saw recently. I don't think I'd pay any attention to that book.

[Mnemosyne]

MM, everyone who is new here! :wave: :heartthro

I think that Puma Hime offered the wisest advice: if you aren't sure about something, don't summon it. I looked up Vassago. From what I gather, Vassago is very dark. Does Vassago bring anything beneficial to your life? I want to know why someone would want to work with Vassago.

[Twilight Garden]

I didn't think that Tabii was looking to summon Vassago. I just thought that Tabii was a part of a Ritual where someone else was working with Vassago. I've been to many a Ritual where people were calling deities that I'm not very familiar with like Celtic deities or an Egyptian deity. I would always come home and learn more about that deity afterwards. That is how I've come to know many deities.

But I have to say that I agree with you all in that if you don't know a deity's energy, do not summon it yourself. Although I'd be concerned about going back into Ritual with a group summoning this type of energy. But it's all very personal, whatever floats your boat, as long as it doesn't take me down with it. :D

[MidnightSun]

I found a ritual involving summoning this in "Mastering Witchcraft: A Practical Guide for Witches, Warlocks and Covens" by Paul Huson (Perigee, 1970).

Since the title has the world Warlocks in it..I wouldn't give the book much credit *shrugs*

[Caelin]

I think the author is more of a cabalist/old-fashioned occultist, than having anything to do with Wicca/modern paganism. He seems to be working more from things like the Key of Solomon, and related stuff, than anything else. I suppose that explains all the stuff about invoking angels/demonic hierarchies!

[Journeyman]

Wow, quite a few things going on in this thread!

I am an initiated Witch (Wiccan) who has a butt-load of experience with Ceremonial Magick under his belt (Golden Dawn & Thelemic, mostly).

The demon Vassago is indeed a Goetic demon from the Lemegeton (Lesser Key of solomon). However, remember that not all demons are bad guys! Vassago is pretty benign so long as you know what you are doing. My coven evoked Vassago during our training.

Also, Paul Huson's book is excellent so long as you remember that it was written before the popular press had determioned what consituted a "standard Wiccan book." His book is from before the population explosion in Wicca. Also note that he doesn't mention Wicca in the title, it's Witchcraft. And let's not forget, either, that Wicca is not the only set of beliefs/practices which goes by the name of Witchcraft!

Before you dump on Huson for including some Qabala and Key of Solomon stuff in his book on Witchcraft, please remember that Gardner lifted a whole heckuva lotta his BOS from the Keys of Solomon, not to mention from Crowley's rituals and poems. Why do you think that Gardnerian Wicca and its descendants use teh Ceremonial Magician's ritual tools? Do you really think that pre-Xtian Witches used to cast Circles with a sword, calling on four Watchtowers, and invoking the Goddess with verses from Crowley's Gnostic Mass, as Gardnerians do?? :D

I don't really care if a Fundie Xtian site used Huson's book in an anti-Wicca diatribe. They have also used Aradia: Gospel of the Witches, especially the fact that the god is called by the name Lucifer therein!

I no longer do any Goetic work simply because the demons found therein are bound and ruled by Jewish and Xtian godnames and godforms. Since I am neither Jewish nor Xtian by religion and do not wish to have any dealings with YHVH or YHShVH, I just don't deal with it. I won't do the evacations with the names of my gods since I have no reason to believe that Aradia & Cernunnos have any sort of adversarial relationship with teh Goetic entities.

Another important point - it is a fairly widely held belief that a number of the Goetic "demons" are actually Pagan gods which the Jews & Xtians sought to (literally) demonize! i.e. - Ashtaroth seems to be a mangled and twisted Astarte, and the Goetic Seal of Flauros bears no small resemblance to the hawk imagery of Horus, etc. Remember that they also turned our Horned Lord into their Devil!


BB,
jm

[Sequoia]

I like the points you made! Very thoughtful. . . :) thank you.

[Mnemosyne]

Yes, you did make some really good points, Journeyman. To be honest, I am still not too clear about Vassago. You have reminded me that demons are not necessarily bad. If you guys know, the word "demon" is derived from the Greek word "daimon." Daimons just meant "spirit"- be it good or bad.

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by MidnightSun
Since the title has the world Warlocks in it..I wouldn't give the book much credit

Incidentally, warlock is said to come from the Old Norse vardlokkur, who were thought to be guardians of the gates of knowledge - wise men of divine knowledge who protected that wisdom. Their magick was to ward off evil spirits. In 'Scot's dialect' it means 'cunning man' though it is rarely used today because it's Anglo-saxon meaning is 'oath breaker'. So, don't just go by the popular/well known usage you see.

[MidnightSun]

Raevyn,
Thanks for telling me :)

[Twilight Garden]

Originally posted by Journeyman
Wow, quite a few things going on in this thread!
... .... .....
BB,
jm Journeyman, you made some excellent, excellent points. Well put. :smoke:

[Journeyman]

Thanks, everyone. :)
I also found this interesting article at http://www.boudicca.de/warlock-e.htm -


"What is a Warlock?

Lil Bow Wow

Offered for publication on "Boudicca's Bard" by the author

What is a Warlock?

I know that this thread has wound down considerably, but in the interest of linguistics, I just wanted to add some potentially useful information on the use of the term "warlock."

First of note is that the Modern English definition of the term has nothing to do with traitors or such, and at least according to the _Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary_ is defined

1 : a man practicing the black arts: sorcerer;

2 : conjurer".

Whatever its hypothetical etymology, it is nowadays *not* used to indicate a traitor. And any who choose to self-identify as a warlock are saying nothing at all about their ability to keep oath. Also, it has long irked me that compilers of Modern English dictionaries seem so very ignorant of the role the Scandinavian languages played in the development of English in England and Scotland. Allow me to illustrate with the word warlock.

If, as is posited in many Modern English dictionaries, the word "warlock" comes from a ME "warloghe" from OE "wærloga", then the Modern form we should expect to see would be something like warlow, or werlow, since the tendency to move from 'gh' to 'w' is strong in English, and from 'gh' to 'ck' unknown. This is a trait it shares with Danish, and to provide an example, the Old Swedish "lagh" (meaning "law") is spelled in Modern Danish "lag" but pronounced "law" and in English, orthography and pronunciation are again in sync, with the form "law."

That "gh" in the Middle English form "warloghe" indicates a uvular fricative, that is a g that is pronounced as if one were gargling (as in Dutch "gulder"). That aspirated "g" is what, in English, is usually exchanged for a "w". Other examples in English: "through", "drought", etc. When one also considers the semantic shift, i.e., from "traitor, oathbreaker" to "sorcerer, conjurer", this all begins to introduce an element of doubt as to the actual etymology. Now, when I find corroberation for this hypothesis in dictionaries of Old Norse (Cleasby, Vigfusson and Craigie), I must, as a trained linguist, seek another more satisfying etymology. Here, then, is an alternative etymology for "warlock", one which I find both satisfying as a linguist and as a magic user.

In the Old Norse tale, Eiriks saga Rauða (The Saga of Eirik the Red, mid 14th century), the term "varðlokkur" appears in the context of a prophecy-session at a farm in Greenland. It is used to mean a song of conjuring. When the two constituent terms are split, we see "varð" which had by that time the sense of a spirit, and "lokkur" or a song of luring or attracting. In Modern Swedish, the term "lock" is used for the pastoral songs that are sung to call the cows home from the meadow -- "kolock". In just this same way, the song to attract or call the "varð" or spirit, was the "varðlokkur". Gradually, with time, the term for the song and for the singer became interchangable, i.e., the same term was used for both. Semantically, we can interpret the term as "enchanter, conjurer."

Now, is all of this linguistically feasible? Yes, and here's why: The term varðlokkur is a compound noun. The consonantal combination "rðl" could never occur otherwise. As it is, this consonantal cluster is very difficult, even in Norse, so the tendency is to simplify. Since in Old Norse, the rolled "r" followed by the liquid "l" would have organically produced the medial "ð", this consonant is the most likely candidate for deletion. Also, word initial "v" was commonly anglicized into word initial "w" in English. Examples: vård = ward, vurm = worm, vatten = water, ved = wood, etc. And finally (and in my mind, most convincingly) the geminate "k" at the end of the Norse is reflected in the "ck" of the English. Orthographic tendencies in English tend to reflect "kk" as "ck".

Lastly, the nominative "ur" ending in Old Norse is superfluous in English, as we had abandoned case endings long before. And the fact that the Scottish and East Anglian coasts had been battered by Scandinavian raiders for quite some time prior to the word's first attestation in *English* adds historical probability to linguistic possibility. Now, even if my etymology back to the Scandinavian form for enchanter is unconvincing to you, at least remember that the Modern English term has nothing to do with traitors. If some of us choose to reclaim the term warlock for our magical identity, it does not, as Jonathan implied, indicate that we are in any way magical poseurs.

Offered in care,

Niklas aka Lil Bow Wow"

[Caelin]

Thats really interesting, Journeyman :) Though...wouldn't that etymology depend on which part of England or Scotland the word first came into English? I mean, if its of Scandinavian origin, the best place for it to come from would be Scotland or Northern England, as Southern England and Wales were relatively untouched by the Vikings. It would be useful to know whether it first appeared in middle English in its northern variant or not.

Though I could be completely wrong about all that - I'm not too familiar with Old English and the general way words entered the English language prior to the norman conquest.

[Journeyman]

Good questions, Caelin!
I try to have a decent working knowledge of a topic before I hold forth on it, such as my input regarding the Goetia and Huson's book.
Since I couldn't even pretend to be a linguist, I just try to look at other people's theories and try to separat ethe wheat from the chaff. On the topic of the word "warlock," I have no idea what the word's "true" etymology might be. I just figured I'd throw something else for people to chew on into the conversation. :)

[Caelin]

Actually, I think I agree with the guy you quoted - wherever the word came from and what it used to mean, it doesn't mean that anymore. Words change their meanings, so perhaps we shouldn't fuss over archaic meanings?

(I'm actually thinking of some of those fundamentalist christian books where they go overboard on what the words "wicca" and "warlock" meant originally, instead of what they mean today, which would seem rather more important.)

[Journeyman]

Well, I guess I was mainly responding to the old canard that "Warlock used to mean oathbreaker, so let's not use it, m'kay?"

Warlock "used to" mean several things, apparently, so if some people wanna use it, let's not give them poop over it. That's my two cents.

bb,
jm

[tabii]

Originally posted by LunarMist
I didn't think that Tabii was looking to summon Vassago. I just thought that Tabii was a part of a Ritual where someone else was working with Vassago. I've been to many a Ritual where people were calling deities that I'm not very familiar with like Celtic deities or an Egyptian deity. I would always come home and learn more about that deity afterwards. That is how I've come to know many deities.

But I have to say that I agree with you all in that if you don't know a deity's energy, do not summon it yourself. Although I'd be concerned about going back into Ritual with a group summoning this type of energy. But it's all very personal, whatever floats your boat, as long as it doesn't take me down with it. :D

exactly. i was a part of a ritual that a trained witch was doing. i was just looking for a little information ..or at least more than she had given me .she says she summons this demon often. i did get a lot from this thread. thanks to all of you. =D

[Mythrel]

I'm just popping in to say...damn interesting thread!!!

[Lucius]

I'm just popping in to say...damn interesting thread!!!
Very interesting. also, *applauds Journeyman*

[Theres]

http://www.geocities.com/stonethimble/webstore-Pete/VassagoSigil.jpg

[Sequoia]

ano. . . ne?

What's that? Where did you get that?

[Theres]

ano. . . ne?

What's that? Where did you get that?

who, me?
it the sigil of Vassago, and i found it in the aforementioned book 'Mastering Witchcraft', by Paul Huson (one of the first witchcraft books i ever owned).

[Shatril]

I would like to know if anyone has an interpretation of the sigils that Paul Huson recommends for tools in the book "Mastering Witchcraft". I found it rather perturbing not to find the meaning anywhere in the book. Any help would be appreciated.

Shatril Seeker