Are Neo-Pagans anti-social?

[Linchetto]

I recently ran across a statement made in the introduction for the Stregoneria Italiana site (this is not associated or affiliated with Raven Grimassi). The owner of the site, Solitario, wrote that Neo-Pagans are anti-social people who express animosity towards normal society.

Here is the quote:

"It is the Neo-Pagan witch alone who typically expresses an animosity to the norms of society"

He goes on to say:

"Fundamentalist Christians have denounced Neo-Pagan witches wholesale, but no one has yet to explore these very real anti-social trends within the Neo-Pagan community"

Does that sound right to you guys? Personally I think it's wrong to paint Neo-Pagans this way. But I'm interested in what you think.

[RainInanna]

It sounds like painting the whole group with a rather broad brush. I find anything meant to typify Neo-Pagans or Pagans as a whole is usually a stereotype or attempt to over-simplify the group.

And personally? I find Neo-Pagans are often very interested in the social aspects - ie. fests, faires, coffee socials, and the like.

[patch]

I'm not. *shrug*

Seems like a big generaliztion.

[Theres]

anti-social?!

jeez, we're talking about people who hug anything that moves and will hold "perfect love and perfect trust" rituals with just about anyone that walks by!

[Twinkle]

Wow. People are people regardless of religious ideation. Some are antisocial, some are extroverts, some are introverts.

*facepalm*

[BlackLili]

No! Now leave me alone! :thumbsup:

[Stormbeard]

When society welcomes Neo-Paganism, Neo-Paganism will welcome society.

[patch]

When society welcomes Neo-Paganism, Neo-Paganism will welcome society.

Neopagans don't welcome society? 0__o

[Twinkle]

Neopagans don't welcome society? 0__o


Well, there is the stereotype of the neopagan being fringe, a subculture, and not actually a valid system of belief.

Because they are not *mainstream*, it would be logical, but not necessarily accurate, to assume that they do not welcome society with its Christian dogma and condemnation.

I haven't found this to be true myself...but there are some that are very good at playing pagan...without actually believing in anything.

[aluokaloo]

that's stereotypical. It depends on the person on whether they are anti-social or not. Besides it looks like these people are confusing anti-social with something else entirely. Am I anti-social yes. But that is for an entirely different set of reasons, being pagan has nothing to do with it.

[RainInanna]

anti-social?!

jeez, we're talking about people who hug anything that moves and will hold "perfect love and perfect trust" rituals with just about anyone that walks by!

bwahahaha. Count on Theres to say it simply, bluntly, and honestly. :)

[LostSheep]

"It is the Neo-Pagan witch alone who typically expresses an animosity to the norms of society" The neo-pagan witch alone???
I could think of quite a few who are everything from fundamentalist Christians to hardline atheists, and sheep.

[Infinite Grey]

A neo-pagans anti-social because they are neo-pagans? Or are they Neo-pagan because they are anti-social?

[Whitewolf]

that's stereotypical. It depends on the person on whether they are anti-social or not. Besides it looks like these people are confusing anti-social with something else entirely. Am I anti-social yes. But that is for an entirely different set of reasons, being pagan has nothing to do with it. I totally agree. That is stereotypical. It just depends on the person if they are anti social or not.

[DaNcInG_WiNd]

I'm not anti-social nor am I neo-pagan. However I know some people who are anti-social but that just makes them hermits...lol

[Twinkle]

A neo-pagans anti-social because they are neo-pagans? Or are they Neo-pagan because they are anti-social?


That's exactly what I was getting at. It depends. There are many that go to Neopaganism because it's some sort of ultimate rebellion against society.

In the end, though...I think it just comes down to people are people.

[Infinite Grey]

That's exactly what I was getting at. It depends. There are many that go to Neopaganism because it's some sort of ultimate rebellion against society.

In the end, though...I think it just comes down to people are people.

Most people on the internet are anti-spcial

http://1av10.nu/~hymn/misc/1140088007447.jpg

[Twinkle]

I am so much cooler online.

Just saying.

[Theres]

I am so much cooler online.

Just saying.
LOL!

(and i'll bet that's not even true)

[Twinkle]

;)

I'll never tell.

[Stephanie Taylor]

I recently ran across a statement made in the introduction for the Stregoneria Italiana site (this is not associated or affiliated with Raven Grimassi). The owner of the site, Solitario, wrote that Neo-Pagans are anti-social people who express animosity towards normal society.

Here is the quote:

"It is the Neo-Pagan witch alone who typically expresses an animosity to the norms of society"

He goes on to say:

"Fundamentalist Christians have denounced Neo-Pagan witches wholesale, but no one has yet to explore these very real anti-social trends within the Neo-Pagan community"

Does that sound right to you guys? Personally I think it's wrong to paint Neo-Pagans this way. But I'm interested in what you think.

In my opinion to stereotype people like this is arrogant and foolishly judgmental. And if you think about it there's very little that anyone can point to that defines Neo-Pagans as whole. They tend to be free thinkers. And since when is being intentionally different from mainstream culture an act of animosity? Perhaps it's nothing more than self expression and a turning away from things that don't work for the individuals in question. I don't see anything hostile in this, nor do I see any animosity. Seems like this "Solitario" fellow has some personal axe to grind. Hmmm....doesn't that name mean solitary? And isn't that anti-social? :hehehehe:

[PrincessKLS]

I tend to be from time to time.

[therumpypumpyfaery]

Well I'm anti-social, but that's because I am incredibly and painfully shy. Oh and gee, my husband who is Christian is also shy and anti-social.

Though that depends on your definition of anti-social. Since we spend our weekends inside reading or watching Doctor Who and don't know the names of any of neighbors (we've lived here a year) and prefer to do our own thing.

I wouldn't describe PAGANS that way, I would describe GEEKS (another label I belong to) a bit more like that but even that's an over generalization.

[Philosophia]

I'm not anti-social. I just don't care.

However, I may not be neo-pagan enough to safely fall under any stereotype.

[therumpypumpyfaery]

What makes someone anti-social?

Is it the people that they prefer to stay in a night watching Docor Who or reading Lord of the Rings, or is it the people who yell "WOOOOOHHOOOO! F*** YA!" and then piss on the street?

Because frankly if to be social I have to the 2nd I'd rather pass thanks very much.

(seriously people keep telling my husband and I we should go to the local pub "to meet people" even though we're perfectly happy as we are and don't drink at all. It's so we can "be social"...really why?)

[Jezibaba]

What makes someone anti-social?

Is it the people that they prefer to stay in a night watching Docor Who or reading Lord of the Rings, or is it the people who yell "WOOOOOHHOOOO! F*** YA!" and then piss on the street?

Because frankly if to be social I have to the 2nd I'd rather pass thanks very much.

(seriously people keep telling my husband and I we should go to the local pub "to meet people" even though we're perfectly happy as we are and don't drink at all. It's so we can "be social"...really why?)

I don't think that Pagans (Neo or otherwise) are anti-social either, it's completely a personal thing. Generalizations like this are pointless, and don't make sense.

I'm not very social, but it's because i'm shy, and when you're out meeting people, you're not meeting anti-social people, you're (or at least I'm) meeting people who have way to much energy for me, and wildly different interests than me.

And I'm always being told to be more social. Since I'm happy not being more social, why bother?

Edit-I remember as well reading a book that said that only 5% of the American population are introverts, while 95% are extroverts.

[therumpypumpyfaery]

I don't think that Pagans (Neo or otherwise) are anti-social either, it's completely a personal thing. Generalizations like this are pointless, and don't make sense.

I'm not very social, but it's because i'm shy, and when you're out meeting people, you're not meeting anti-social people, you're (or at least I'm) meeting people who have way to much energy for me, and wildly different interests than me.

And I'm always being told to be more social. Since I'm happy not being more social, why bother?

Edit-I remember as well reading a book that said that only 5% of the American population are introverts, while 95% are extroverts.


Exactly!

You know I'd like to know who in the heck we're hurting by sitting quietly at home on a Saturday night. I know we're not the people the Media calls Anti-social.

People just don't like people who are quiet and don't do much because they think we're all serial killers or that we're going to go *snap* and go postal on them.

I know that's what my Highschool thought of me. After Columbine I was one all the students lists of the "Quiet one" to watch out for. Never mind I wasn't in the least bit threatening or wanting to hurt anyone, I just wanted to be able to read by myself....

*takes a deep breath*

O-kay! *gives back soapbox and sits quietly in the corner..Oh noes! That means I must be getting ready for shooting up the forum!*

[Philosophia]

According to this site (http://kids.direct.gov.uk/resource_areas/html/glossary/abc.htm):

anti-social: when someone acts in a way that is unfriendly or unpleasant towards others.

or

Antisocial (against society) can refer to a person who is harmful or hostile to others, or society in general. It is widely misused to refer to what may be termed "unfriendly" or "not social." (from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial))

Now whether this describes what being antisocial is depends upon what others may believe it defines.

I'm an introvert (obviously not on this site :hehehehe: ) but I don't think I'm antisocial but I'm obviously not social either.

[therumpypumpyfaery]

Definitions of Anti-social:

From in-laws and coworkers: Someone who doesn't make an effort to meet and be very friendly with all their neighbors and/or someone who doesn't go to the pub and get drunk with a gaggle of regular barflys every weekend.

From random people: Anyone who doesn't go out of their way to say hi to them in paticular and who is willing to go to movies by themselves or who goes to restuarants by themselves with a good book instead of trying to make friends.

Media: Anyone who vandalizes, gets drunk and vomits on the sidewalk, or who is loud and obnoxious or "yobbish" so precisely the people my coworkers and inlaws want me to "meet"

Politicans: Anyone who doesnt' vote for THEM.

Me: People who disturb my reading, are rude, make fun of strangers, who through things, who yell on a saturday night and get sick on the street, people who sit down next to me on the bus, in a restuarant, or in the movies....because I'm shy

[Jezibaba]

According to this site (http://kids.direct.gov.uk/resource_areas/html/glossary/abc.htm):

anti-social: when someone acts in a way that is unfriendly or unpleasant towards others.

or

Antisocial (against society) can refer to a person who is harmful or hostile to others, or society in general. It is widely misused to refer to what may be termed "unfriendly" or "not social." (from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial))

Now whether this describes what being antisocial is depends upon what others may believe it defines.

I'm an introvert (obviously not on this site :hehehehe: ) but I don't think I'm antisocial but I'm obviously not social either.

Those definitions sound about right for anti-social. I'm definitely not social, but I'm not anti-social. And it's easier for me to talk on here too, but mainly I think because I can think out what I want to say, and not be put on the spot. My brain is happy when I can take my time and double check.

[Jezibaba]

Definitions of Anti-social:

From in-laws and coworkers: Someone who doesn't make an effort to meet and be very friendly with all their neighbors and/or someone who doesn't go to the pub and get drunk with a gaggle of regular barflys every weekend.

From random people: Anyone who doesn't go out of their way to say hi to them in paticular and who is willing to go to movies by themselves or who goes to restuarants by themselves with a good book instead of trying to make friends.

Media: Anyone who vandalizes, gets drunk and vomits on the sidewalk, or who is loud and obnoxious or "yobbish" so precisely the people my coworkers and inlaws want me to "meet"

Politicans: Anyone who doesnt' vote for THEM.

Me: People who disturb my reading, are rude, make fun of strangers, who through things, who yell on a saturday night and get sick on the street, people who sit down next to me on the bus, in a restuarant, or in the movies....because I'm shy


Now that, I understand. It's amazing how people think you're weird or disturbed or sad because you don't want to go out and get bombed and lose your hearing in a way too loud club.

And I can't tell you how many times I've been yelled at by my mom as a child, or gotten dirty looks because I don't smile and make small talk about the weather with everyone I meet. In fact, unless people talk to me, I usually just ignore them and go my own way. Apparently, that means I'm being awful and rude. Who would have thought?

Not to mention how many times people have gotten mad at me or given me the "O.O sympathetic eyes" because I was sitting and reading by myself instead of talking up a storm like other people.

And talk about disturbed reading, when I was in school, kids used to come up to me all the time asking, why are you reading?, what's wrong with you? I even once had a kid come over and start reading the book outloud to his friends. I guess that counts as humor?

-End Rant

[therumpypumpyfaery]

And talk about disturbed reading, when I was in school, kids used to come up to me all the time asking, why are you reading?, what's wrong with you? I even once had a kid come over and start reading the book outloud to his friends. I guess that counts as humor?

-End Rant


Oh that burns me up. What's almost as bad is when someone comes up and sits across from you and then after a few moments pushes up the back of your book! Because they "Just want to know what you're reading"

Yeah? Well asking is actually LESS annoying.

I was actually frightened by someone of my school fellows when I was in school, they used to brag about how they hadn't read a book in years!

[Brightshores]

Oh for God's sake. More stereotypical crap, misapplying specific and irrelevant characteristics to a huge and very disparate group of people. That's no more true than saying "The Jews are anti-social" or "The Buddhists are anti-social." Some are, some aren't.

I'm quite social in the right context (I am not much of a bar or club person and am often happy to sit at home, but I have plenty of friends and enjoy spending time with people.)

Besides, as Stephanie Taylor said, do we really want to be taking social advice from someone called "Solitario?" :wtf:

[Jezibaba]

Oh that burns me up. What's almost as bad is when someone comes up and sits across from you and then after a few moments pushes up the back of your book! Because they "Just want to know what you're reading"

Yeah? Well asking is actually LESS annoying.

I was actually frightened by someone of my school fellows when I was in school, they used to brag about how they hadn't read a book in years!

Asking is a MUCH better method if they want to know. The kid just did that to me because I would sit and read every day at lunch, and him and his friends typically sat and laughed at me for it. I didn't really get mad at the boy though. I felt sorry for him.

1. Because he had nothing better to do than to waste my time. A sure sign of not having a life or any personal interests.

and

2. Because I could tell he couldn't read well, which I'm sure made him insecure in school, and kids often lash out at others when they're insecure.

Of course he was still being an idiot, and I just left. It's amazing how many people act that way, like they've never seen a book.

It's the same way people look at animals, a mixture of fear and fascintion (If you don't move, maybe I won't notice you!), or if they're really hateful, like they're watching a dog chase it's tail, it's either funny or it's stupid.

I wouldn't know what to do with my free time if I didn't read!

[Amilee]

Indeed. I also facepalm.

Wow. People are people regardless of religious ideation. Some are antisocial, some are extroverts, some are introverts.

*facepalm*

[Shanti]

I cant help but wonder why society is preoccupied with individuals who are totally content not sitting in the crowded box.

What the heck is anti-social? Just because some people prefer no company or little is just difference of personality. Its that simple.

I personally hate the box. I prefer to be free.

[Zephyrstorm]

Considering that the term anti-social is also a psychological disorder - one that I haven't seen in any of the Pagans I know. Which is good, because Anti-Social Personality Disorder really makes relationships of any sort impossible.

From Psychology Today:
Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others. (http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/antisocial.html)

On the other hand... I can say I've had some neighbors who fell into that category. ;)

But Pagans are people. and people can come in all sorts. One of the things I do like about people, in fact.

Now, I am fairly quiet at times - have no problem curling up with a book, or sitting by myself out in the arboretum. Am I that way all the time?
No. You'll also find me at one of the best Halloween parties around, going to festivals, faires, and I actually get kinda crabby without social time.

[Shanti]

From Psychology Today:
Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others. (http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/antisocial.html)


And here I thought that was a description of people who just behave badly.

[WolfWhoSings]

Now, I can't pretend to know what the original author was thinking, but isn't it possible that the perception might have come from a tendency for people who are already "anti-social/not mainstream/whathaveyou" to look for a faith or identifying group that is also outside the norm?

These people would be more likely to be "in your face" with their paganism, using it as a passive aggressive shield and weapon, just as a badly socialised goth, punk, geek, or whoever might.

Due to this, these are the people who get noticed, rather than the seemingly "normal" looking woman shopping at the grocery store with a discreet pentagram necklace.

It's similar to the "red head/ginger" thing - is the stereotype of redheads being firey and "trouble" (don't start, I'm one too :P ) innate to red hair, a result of societal expectation, or just because red hair is easy to pick out of a crowd of kids acting out?

I get reminded of the words of a certain villainous handpuppet from "The Tick" - "You're making us look like jerks!"

[Xentor]

Exactly. One doesn't have to be Neo-Pagan to be anti-social, but it sure helps as a social generalising bias.

For instance, I was very anti-social (I've got better), and I was raised a Christian (I've got better).

[David19]

anti-social?!

jeez, we're talking about people who hug anything that moves and will hold "perfect love and perfect trust" rituals with just about anyone that walks by!

I know, sometimes, people just might become anti-social to get away from them!.

A neo-pagans anti-social because they are neo-pagans? Or are they Neo-pagan because they are anti-social?

You're onto something, 'cause some people do become Pagans, to rebel against society, their parents, friends, other family members, background, culture, the religion (or lack of tradition) you were brought up in, etc. Some people like to use being Pagan as an excuse as to why their anti-social, like, if they're Goth, fat, whatever, etc, it's not 'cause of those things, it's 'cause everyone else is being "religiously intolerant" (Why Wiccans Suck (http://web.archive.org/web/19960101-20051231re_/http://www.whywiccanssuck.com/)said it better than me).

I think some Pagans are just anti-social, 'cause it's who they are, and they use being Pagan as an excuse as to why they're anti-social.

Wow. People are people regardless of religious ideation. Some are antisocial, some are extroverts, some are introverts.

*facepalm*

QFT, and very true :).

[Enlightenment1]

I would honestly go as far as to say, neo-pagans are quite the opposite. I find most of them to be highly sociable people. What a load of rubbish!!!