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KageMori
August 3rd, 2008, 12:06 PM
do you guys remember when i said i was keeping my dads dog for a while? Well earlier today, like a few mintues ago actually, my brother got mad at me for not washing out his lunch bowl when i was supposed to do the dishes because he left old nasty hotdogs in it and didnt throw them out.

I told him if he threw them away i'd wash his bowl. Well he got really mad and said 'fine. heres some rotten old a$$ hotdogs for your dog to eat.'
he threw them out to the dog and before i managed to take them away she had eaten part of one. She threw it back up a few mintues later.

what i was wanting to know is if since she threw it back up should she be okay now or should i tell my dad to take her to the vet or something?

Glowy
August 3rd, 2008, 12:09 PM
keep an eye on her, she is more than likely fine since she vomited it up quickly

Shanti
August 3rd, 2008, 02:14 PM
Dogs eat a lot of things they shouldn't, especially garbage with no ill affects other than throwing up, and since your dog did throw up...she should be just fine.

Rowan Darkmoon
August 3rd, 2008, 02:43 PM
Dogs eat a lot of things they shouldn't, especially garbage with no ill affects other than throwing up, and since your dog did throw up...she should be just fine.

That's what I thinking too, a dog's mentality on food is, "I'll eat it, and if it doesn't agree with me, I'll just throw it up later. And then try to eat it again." 8O

KageMori
August 3rd, 2008, 05:25 PM
that last part is true. after she threw it up she tried to eat again but i was faster this time and buried it in the sand so she couldnt get to it again.

TuathaSidhe
August 3rd, 2008, 05:49 PM
Sounds like my house.

If food falls on the floor its a free for all and whoever gets their first wins. :lol:

Luckily my dogs are pretty well trained and they wont take the food unless I say its ok.

Dogs have pretty strong stomaches for the most part and a shorter digestive system, they can handle lots of things that we cant.

lioncastle
August 4th, 2008, 07:28 AM
It's certainly true that the carnivore's system can handle a lot more pathogen than we can, which is why your dog can occasionally scarf down a dead squirrel while out in the field and suffer no ill effects. That said, dogs can and do contract e coli, salmonella, and recact violently to pathogens they were NOT developed to withstand. Thhink of the multiple deaths last year related to tainted dogfoods - aflatoxins, melamine (and when you work in the canine nutrition world, trust me, you hear these stories all the time). It is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry, especially in the case of something like rancid hotdogs. I'd have put this dog on a semi fast - well cooked plain white rice with plain, nonfat chicken, well cooked - and a small bit of chopped garlic, which has potent antimicrobial properties - for about 24 hours. I'd monitor temperature and encourage drinking as well, which you can do by placing a few Tbsps of the stopck you cooked the chcken in, into the water bowl (don't add salt). . At the first sign of fever, or loose stool, inappetance or general malaise she goes to the vet.

Not all toxins act immediately and it sounds like this dog didn't keep the meat down long enough to create problems, but this is a standard protocol you can use in case anything like this happens again. Never induce vomiting if you don't know what the toxins are.

How is your Dad's dog now?
lioncastle

magick_faerie
August 4th, 2008, 08:19 AM
i wouldnt worry unless the dog continues to be sick...my dogs used to find the most disgusting thing in my bin and quite happily chew on it! although if your concerned you should always visit a vet. hope hes ok

fae

Thunder
August 4th, 2008, 08:40 AM
A hotdog sitting in a bowl, indoors for a few hours is hardly likely to be "rancid". Hotdogs are cooked when you buy them. You could have eaten it with out getting sick in all likelihood.

A dog's GI tract is very simmilar to a human's in structure but varies considerably in chemistry.... Dogs can and do actually eat "Rancid" meat. The pH of their stomach (at or below 1.0) pretty much takes care of any bacteria. My dogs have on occasion gotten into road-kill that would make you wretch, even from the other end of a shovel. My dogs have never been sick... ever. Thunder just passed this June at fourteen and Belle will be eleven in November. Dogs have remarkably durable stomachs. I wouldn't worry. I just don't let tham lick me for a while :smile:.

lioncastle
August 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM
With all due respect, the ph of a canine stomach does NOT protect them from many pathogens. As someone who worked 16 years or so with a vet, and has been a canine healthcare professional (nutritionist and herbalist) for the last 14 years, working with literally thousands of cases - I need to assert this; anything suspect ingested by a dog should be taken seriously. It's great if some one's individual dog's have never gotten ill, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

The OP was sufficently concerned as to ask, and while I wouldn't want to frighten anyone, some care and caution is always advisable.

http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/cgistomach.pdf

To be clear; gastric ph in the canine varies, and the individual's ability to combat pathogens is highly affected by factors such as age, nutritional status(dogs a low quality commercial feed are almost always lacking in various nutrients, enzymes and beneficial microorganisms) stress level and undetected health issues such as pancreatic inflammation and liver stress. Hot dogs are not a food I would ever use for a dog, even if they were NOT left out for hours.

We love our dogs, so better safe than sorry. And their GI tract, from dentition to colon, is significantly different from humans. We are omnivores, and they are facultative carnivores. Their unique ph levels do offer them more protection from pathogen than we possess, but that doesn't mean they don;t get sick from ingesting things unfit for any living creature. I deal with 10, 12 cases a week like this.
A word to the wise.
lioncastle

TuathaSidhe
August 4th, 2008, 09:42 AM
heh

the dog food debat....<rollseyes>

I wont get into it, but I know plenty of people who have fed their dogs fresh raw foods (meat, veggies, fruits, etc)

Its a very popular diet, but, some dont like it, some do. There are just as many experts on one side as there is the other.

I agree with Thunder. A healthy dog with a healthy immune system can handle the nasties.

SURE, they can get things, its possible for anything to happen, but they can also get stuff from kibble (that huge food recall of all the kibbles anyone?) and ive known of dogs to choke and die off of kibble.

When you said rancid though, I was expecting something that had been out for days and was moldy and stinky and growing things on it though, lol. If it had just been out a few hours, then the dog is def. fine. More than likely it wasnt the fact it was out, but the fact that it was to "heavy" on the dog and he just wasnt use to it.

lioncastle
August 4th, 2008, 09:53 AM
n
heh



Its a very popular diet, but, some dont like it, some do. There are just as many experts on one side as there is the other.

.

I respectfully disagree. There are many, MANY self proclaimed experts, but I can count on my two hands the number of us with actual training and experience. About 50% of the dogs I see professionally have been really harmed by diets just thrown together by someone who believes that fresh food is better than commercial - ( you know, they read it on the Internet...sigh) . It can be, but if your dog isn't getting enough calcium, iodine, zinc etc - it's a disaster and a high quality kibble would actually have been preferable on that level. A lot of people think they know nutrition, but so, so few really do.

This thread is more about food safety than nutrition, I think - and since most people feel that there's never a reason to be concnerned - even if the dog vomited, I'll bow out now. The OP can contact me privately if need be.

;)


lc

Thunder
August 4th, 2008, 10:59 PM
With all due respect, the ph of a canine stomach does NOT protect them from many pathogens. As someone who worked 16 years or so with a vet, and has been a canine healthcare professional (nutritionist and herbalist) for the last 14 years, working with literally thousands of cases - I need to assert this; anything suspect ingested by a dog should be taken seriously. It's great if some one's individual dog's have never gotten ill, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

The OP was sufficently concerned as to ask, and while I wouldn't want to frighten anyone, some care and caution is always advisable.

http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/cgistomach.pdf

To be clear; gastric ph in the canine varies, and the individual's ability to combat pathogens is highly affected by factors such as age, nutritional status(dogs a low quality commercial feed are almost always lacking in various nutrients, enzymes and beneficial microorganisms) stress level and undetected health issues such as pancreatic inflammation and liver stress. Hot dogs are not a food I would ever use for a dog, even if they were NOT left out for hours.

We love our dogs, so better safe than sorry. And their GI tract, from dentition to colon, is significantly different from humans. We are omnivores, and they are facultative carnivores. Their unique ph levels do offer them more protection from pathogen than we possess, but that doesn't mean they don;t get sick from ingesting things unfit for any living creature. I deal with 10, 12 cases a week like this.
A word to the wise.
lioncastle

Edited to restore respect............... sorry.

WynterWynd
August 4th, 2008, 11:07 PM
A hotdog isn't a pathogen. :lol: This has got to be a joke. Unfit for any living creature...?!?!?!? Over-react much?

Have you seen whats in a hot dog??:2G: It could be questionable whether or not its a pathogen:hehehehe:

Old Witch
August 5th, 2008, 12:25 AM
The dog should be fine, but kick your brothers ass for being cruel to the dog...

lioncastle
August 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM
I didn't mean to suggest hot dog contain pathogens in the same sense that aflatoxin or salmonella is a pathogen, although they could. I consider them unfit for regular canine consumption for many reasons, although I'm not such a purist that I won't let my guys have the odd bit of junk food. (never more than 10% of the diet, though).

I feed my dogs home made food, I use human grade supplements, and a little bit of premium dog food. For treats they enjoy diced up cooked meat, some liver, cheese, turkey, eggs, dehyrdated heart, and home made cookeis (if you'd like some recipes I have a few good ones). I see much healthier dogs if we lay off the junk food and feed them wholesome foods in reasonable proportions. I don't think a hot dog here or there would kill anybody, but there are safer and healthier options for treats, so I prefer to stay away from - things like nitrates, if I can. Hot dogs can be pretty gross things, depending on manufacturer. My dogs go crazy for tofu weiners, so they get a few of those from time to time.

Cancer in dogs is epidemic - one of four over six and one in TWO ovr ten - why not protect them as much as we can?
When you work with nutritionally-responsive disorders, as I do for a living, you get to the point where you'd rather err on the side of caution. I'm sure it can sound excessive if you haven't seen the stuff I do - the cancer, pancreatitis, renal and hepatic disease, diabetes, obesity - much of it preventable. And hey, most dogs will take a hunk of lean diced beef heart over a hot dog ANY DAY - so...why not?

lioncastle

person of shadow
August 5th, 2008, 10:40 AM
The dog should be fine, but kick your brothers ass for being cruel to the dog...
Thats what I was thinking. :eyebrow:

RainInanna
August 5th, 2008, 07:16 PM
what i was wanting to know is if since she threw it back up should she be okay now or should i tell my dad to take her to the vet or something?

Ugh. Can't offer any advice beyond what's been given, but I sympathize with you. One of my relatives had to be told off and told they wouldn't be invited anymore if they kept insisting on sneaking table scraps to our dog, given that she'd been to the vet before due to nasty reactions from eating junk/people food. Some people just don't think. I hope the dog is ok now.

WolfPup522
August 5th, 2008, 09:35 PM
and since most people feel that there's never a reason to be concnerned - even if the dog vomited, I'll bow out now.

You know most of the time I just read these threads and help when I can or lend a sympathetic "ear". But I would like to point out here that no one that I can remember in this thread said that there's NEVER a reason to be concerned. They were simply pointing out that since she threw it up quickly, she was probably ok - and she probably is. Some dogs have strong stomachs, some do not (like mine). Let's hope this dog does and if not... a vet visit is certainly in order.

Hope she's ok!

ETA: And yes, I think your brother's ass is in dire need of kicking!

KageMori
August 9th, 2008, 06:41 PM
just for the record it wasnt a few hours but a few days and they stunk really bad. when you opened up the bowl you had to hold it away from you it stunk so bad. and they were begging to change color too.

but its been awhile since then and shes more than fine. still as hyper and loud as ever.

and i agree i should kick my brother's ass for what he did. a little while afterwards i asked him why , when he knows i would never be so cruel to any of his animals, would he do something like that to someone elses just becuase he was mad. if my dad found out what he did he'd most likely beat him down for it.

Glowy
August 9th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Glad to hear that KM.

lioncastle
August 12th, 2008, 06:33 PM
just for the record it wasnt a few hours but a few days and they stunk really bad. when you opened up the bowl you had to hold it away from you it stunk so bad. and they were begging to change color too.

but its been awhile since then and shes more than fine. still as hyper and loud as ever.

and i agree i should kick my brother's ass for what he did. a little while afterwards i asked him why , when he knows i would never be so cruel to any of his animals, would he do something like that to someone elses just becuase he was mad. if my dad found out what he did he'd most likely beat him down for it.


I am rvery glad to hear your dog is fine now. Anything sitting for a few days can cause illness. Think about the many deaths from the petfood recalls over the past year - and there are many more the public doesn't hear about. I work with dogs - nutrition, natural health - for a living, and I see these horror stories all the time. I just wanted to provide a different pespective, that you might well need a vet visit, some toxins can take a few days to show up if the liver or kidney is involved. At the very least, if you are worried, monitor temperature, water intake and stool for a few days; better safe than sorry.
I'm just glad ot hear all is well now.

lioncastle