Hello..This is not Harry Potters world!

[Astara Seague]

So I have this fairly new member of our coven..she is a constant challange for me..there is always something..but I feel she is with us for a reason and I do see alot of potential..or I would have sent her packing long ago.. personally I think she is here to test me most of the time:giggle:

so anyways...she has 3 kids the middle child is 11...and rather gifted...she found out that one of my oldest members of the coven {not age wise} was personally taught and mentored by me starting at age 12...a little background I guess is needed... I lived with my best friend and her kids for many years along with my kids.. I am like a second mother to hers as she is to mine.. and her son is the one Im speaking of..he is 24 now and quite strong in his path...

so back to my challange... this member is the type that likes to be the center of everything and she thinks everyone should love her..and everything she does always...{I wont go into that part though} and she hates it that I am closer to some of the older members of my coven then to her.. I have only known her for 3 years... and I am the type that takes their time making "close" friends ..

sooo the thing is now she wants me to take her 11 year old daughter into my home day and night for an entire summer to "teach" her...I told her there is no way Id take her for an entire summer...so now since I told her no I wouldnt do it ... she wants me to take her for an entire week...

I dont want to hurt her feelings and I do know what she is trying to do...and its really not for her daughter...personally her daughter is not ready to learn and too young really ... and yes I told her that too...but she swears she is.. and keeps throwing the fact that I started teaching my daughter and my friends son when they were her daughters age.. sooo Im not sure what to do about this... she thinks I am playing favorites

usually I can handle her but I am at the end of my rope...
I have really never been faced with something like this..she thinks my house is a magic acadamy or something I guess...:hehehehe:

[PrincessKLS]

I don't see what that has to do about Harry Potter but perhaps you are wrong about her daughter, maybe if you talk to her daughter and ask her yourself to see if the little girl would be open to the idea and it's not just an overzealous mother. Perhaps, the real test is teaching someone who you think is not ready for witchcraft. BTW: What path does the child follow or the path that her mother teaches?

I don't see why pagans are often hesitate to teach a young child their craft while lots of Christians, Jews, and Muslims teach their toddlers their faith.

[Little Billy]

I dont want to hurt her feelings and I do know what she is trying to do...and its really not for her daughter...personally her daughter is not ready to learn and too young really ... and yes I told her that too...but she swears she is.. and keeps throwing the fact that I started teaching my daughter and my friends son when they were her daughters age.. sooo Im not sure what to do about this... she thinks I am playing favorites

usually I can handle her but I am at the end of my rope...
I have really never been faced with something like this..she thinks my house is a magic acadamy or something I guess...:hehehehe:

You have no obligation to teach anyone anything.

Tell her to teach the kid herself.

This is really creepy, if you ask me.

[~Elise~]

You have no obligation to teach anyone anything.

Tell her to teach the kid herself.

This is really creepy, if you ask me.

Exactly...and who knows what accusations would/could arise from her stint, unsupervised, in your home.
Run, don't walk, away.

The other situation is totally different...the parent was with you when you were teaching.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

thats what I thought...creepy....and scary...but..I just feel like Im in a bad sort of place.. the damned if you do and the damned if you dont...

I was thinking maybe I could suggest that we start an email sort of thing where she can ask me questions and stuff without her Mother lurking about pushing her...I know she has a intrest...I tried to tell her Mother to teach her..but she is a newbie herself and doesnt feel qualified... I tried to tell her that they could learn together and I would be there to help them both out:whatgives

and to answer the princess's question.. the magical acadamy thing..where you send kids to learn... and I have spoken to the daughter on more then one occasion she comes with her Mother to some of the gatherings we have

[Little Billy]

thats what I thought...creepy....and scary...but..I just feel like Im in a bad sort of place.. the damned if you do and the damned if you dont...


Nope. Just damned if you do.

Tell her no, and then be very, very rude when she continues to whine about it.

[Ivy Artemisia]

So I have this fairly new member of our coven..she is a constant challange for me..there is always something..but I feel she is with us for a reason and I do see alot of potential..or I would have sent her packing long ago.. personally I think she is here to test me most of the time.

........

so back to my challange... this member is the type that likes to be the center of everything and she thinks everyone should love her..and everything she does always...{I wont go into that part though} and she hates it that I am closer to some of the older members of my coven then to her.. I have only known her for 3 years... and I am the type that takes their time making "close" friends .



You are a stronger woman than I am, LOL. Maturity and common sense are requirements in my group. Obviously, you will be closer to people you've known for a longer amount of time. As long as you aren't playing favorites or you don't have an in-crowd within your group, it shouldn't really matter. How old is this member?



sooo the thing is now she wants me to take her 11 year old daughter into my home day and night for an entire summer to "teach" her...I told her there is no way Id take her for an entire summer...so now since I told her no I wouldnt do it ... she wants me to take her for an entire week...


Being a HPS doesn't mean that you offer free babysitting and teaching to everyone and their grandmothers. Honestly, its tough enough being in charge of a group without having to deal with this sort of thing. And its kinda creepy.




I dont want to hurt her feelings and I do know what she is trying to do...and its really not for her daughter...personally her daughter is not ready to learn and too young really ... and yes I told her that too...but she swears she is.. and keeps throwing the fact that I started teaching my daughter and my friends son when they were her daughters age.. sooo Im not sure what to do about this... she thinks I am playing favorites


This is going to make me sound like a big-ole-Bword. You need to tell her straight out whats up. I know you don't want to hurt her feelers, but she doesn't seem to respond well to nice responses.

Tell her that you will only do what you feel is best for her daughter. You aren't going to put aside your personal opinion so that she (through her daughter) can feel special. The fact that you taught your daughter and your BFFs son when they were small is beside the point. That was a long time ago, and you probably have too much going on right now to take on a child student, even if you felt that her daughter was ready, which she isn't. You have NO obligation to teach her daughter. Has she even offerred you payment for this (not that it would change your mind)? Not only would you be providing babysitting services, but also teaching materials- if she hasn't offerred you payment, Id be a little miffed. My time is worth a lot to me, TYVM. IMO- teaching within the coven is part of my responsibilities to the group, Id never charge for that. Teaching friends and family who don't really contribute to the coven... thats a little different.

Honestly, this member seems rather pushy and seems like she feels some sort of entitlement. How do the other members of your group feel about her? Does she cause drama? Is your coven a "family" coven, where all members of the family show up to everything?

[Shawn Cameron]

I may not be very qualified but I agree whole heartedly with everyone so far. Its creepy and its not your responsibility.

Now… I do like to play devils advocate (though I don’t think that applies to the following suggestion) so if there are a few people with kids around her age and your coven is relatively active then I don’t see why someone, not necessarily you, could make a plan like Christian Sunday school, where coven members take turns teaching a GROUP of children, in a public-ish place, about their craft.

But to take a child into your own home for study on behest of the mother and not a connection you may have with the child personally… no, just… no

[aluokaloo]

That's kinda creepy if you ask me. if you don't want to teach the girl, then don't teach her. It's like those signs in restaraunts that say "We Reserve the Right to Refuse Servive for Anyone for any Reason." if she don't like it, tough shit! Though I feel more sorry for the girl then the mother.

[aluokaloo]

I may not be very qualified but I agree whole heartedly with everyone so far. Its creepy and its not your responsibility.

Now… I do like to play devils advocate (though I don’t think that applies to the following suggestion) so if there are a few people with kids around her age and your coven is relatively active then I don’t see why someone, not necessarily you, could make a plan like Christian Sunday school, where coven members take turns teaching a GROUP of children, in a public-ish place, about their craft.

But to take a child into your own home for study on behest of the mother and not a connection you may have with the child personally… no, just… no

that's a very good idea actually.

[Infinite Grey]

:wtf:

[Shawn Cameron]

that's a very good idea actually.


thank you. :toofless: all of this talk, as weird as it may be, makes me wish I could find an active group of some kind...

[Astara Seague]

you don't have an in-crowd within your group, it shouldn't really matter. How old is this member?

Shes 40... yeah I know... you would never believe it... no we dont have an incrowd.. in fact we are a learning coven... I train or have trained most of my members....I used to hold regular circles of learning for the members .. but I dont allow any members under 18 and they have to know something about it.. or have a family member that does







Has she even offerred you payment for this (not that it would change your mind)? Not only would you be providing babysitting services, but also teaching materials- if she hasn't offerred you payment, Id be a little miffed. My time is worth a lot to me, TYVM. IMO- teaching within the coven is part of my responsibilities to the group, Id never charge for that. Teaching friends and family who don't really contribute to the coven... thats a little different.



no she hasnt offered any payments of any type.... she seems to think I am obligated some how...it wouldnt make a difference if she did..really... but if I was to do that for even a week I would want help with at least food and the such...



Honestly, this member seems rather pushy and seems like she feels some sort of entitlement. How do the other members of your group feel about her? Does she cause drama? Is your coven a "family" coven, where all members of the family show up to everything?

she is and most of our other members are very tolerant.. but she does bother them sometimes.. we have talked about it.. not only with them but with her.. she doesnt really cause "drama" she just likes to be the center of attention... and always seeks validation and approval not only from me but from the others.. no our coven isnt a family one...and she is the only one that really trys to bring them all along everytime.... and yes certain gatherings are for family.. like Midsummer and for Mabon we do a thanksgiving sort of dinner thing.. but not every one

[Astara Seague]

I may not be very qualified but I agree whole heartedly with everyone so far. Its creepy and its not your responsibility.

Now… I do like to play devils advocate (though I don’t think that applies to the following suggestion) so if there are a few people with kids around her age and your coven is relatively active then I don’t see why someone, not necessarily you, could make a plan like Christian Sunday school, where coven members take turns teaching a GROUP of children, in a public-ish place, about their craft.

But to take a child into your own home for study on behest of the mother and not a connection you may have with the child personally… no, just… no

that would be a great idea..but she is really the only one with a young family

[Shawn Cameron]

that would be a great idea..but she is really the only one with a young family

*snaps* there goes that idea *crumples up paper and tosses it in the bin* in that case I agree with everyone else. Be firm, and you should only have to explain once, if she continues to gripe tell her something like "I don't feel conferable and I don't want to... do you really want someone who doesn't WANT to teaching your child? do you really think she will get a good education, even if I tried, if deep down I have a problem with it? the answer is still NO."

[tallwoman.9169]

If you don't have enough kids in your coven, suggest she network with other pagan parents, and maybe try to start a children's circle that is open to the area. We have one here, and it's great. Also, one of the best ways to learn is to teach. So with other parents there, they could all participate in teaching their children.

[Xander67]

You have no obligation to teach anyone anything.

Tell her to teach the kid herself.

This is really creepy, if you ask me.

i agree with the DR. :thumbsup:

she seems to idolize you and may need to learn to develop herself a little bit more and then teach her own kid, it would mean more that way.

[evergreen]

I would tell her you don't feel her daughter is ready, that is has nothing do with age, but maturity level (or whatever you feel she lacks). If her mother feels she's ready, she can begin her training herself.

As to giving her to you for the summer, or even a week, that's just ridiculous.

[brymble]

Quite frankly from what I'm reading here, I'm pretty sure that I would not tolerate this kind of creepy dependency or demands in any group I ran, and would have asked the member to shape up or leave long ago.

But that is perhaps why I don't practice with groups at the moment. I'm allergic to drama, and don't feel unkind saying a firm no to unreasonable requests. I'm happy leading a workshop or class here and there and letting them fend for theirselves. I'm a life coach and a teacher, not a babysitter, for the kid or the parent!

It seems to me like she has some kind of glittery "magical" priestess/apprentice fantasy scenario going on in her head that has more to do with something she'd read in a novel than in the practical study and practice of religion or spirituality in the real world.

Seriously, I'd stay away from this one. Even if she's "behaving herself" now, she sounds like a time bomb of drama and conflict just waiting to go off.

[synopa]

you know, I stay away from peoples children. Not trying to be cynical but if some crazy parent accuses you of something, your whole reputation is destroyed. I certainly would not take someones child into my home for religeous instruction.

[brymble]

you know, I stay away from peoples children. Not trying to be cynical but if some crazy parent accuses you of something, your whole reputation is destroyed. I certainly would not take someones child into my home for religeous instruction.

I wouldn't take someone else's child (aside from my nieces) into my home for anything longer than a weekend sleepover for any reason whatsoever, unless it was a very close friend and a genuine emergency.

[Astara Seague]

No I have made that decision already.. she will not be staying at my home for any length of time..I was feeling weird about it all anyway.. thats why I posted.. I wanted to make sure I wasnt just being...well...I dont know.. I just needed some more opinions

Thank you all:hugz:

[Teresa]

AS, I am a mean old bitch who will tell it like it is sometimes. :uhhuhuh: I would tell her look I do not want to hurt your feelings and upset you but I am not in the business of taking people into my home to train, period end of story. If you want to have your daughter taught seek out someone else, it does not have to be your HP who already has enough on her plate. When the student is ready the teacher will come along. Then say Toodles. I have to run now ! :thumbsup:

[Astara Seague]

AS, I am a mean old bitch who will tell it like it is sometimes. :uhhuhuh: I would tell her look I do not want to hurt your feelings and upset you but I am not in the business of taking people into my home to train, period end of story. If you want to have your daughter taught seek out someone else, it does not have to be your HP who already has enough on her plate. When the student is ready the teacher will come along. Then say Toodles. I have to run now ! :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:good plan!!

[Sequoia]

The woman is trying to live through her daughter. It's as simple as that. From the sound of it, her daughter isn't even that interested.

Continue to refuse her idea. It's a bad one.

[Astara Seague]

The woman is trying to live through her daughter. It's as simple as that. From the sound of it, her daughter isn't even that interested.

Continue to refuse her idea. It's a bad one.

wow..you know what..that makes alot of sense..:uhhuhuh:

[Glowy]

It is kind of rude to ask that of you anyway, considering you are not that close.

[David19]

I don't see what that has to do about Harry Potter but perhaps you are wrong about her daughter, maybe if you talk to her daughter and ask her yourself to see if the little girl would be open to the idea and it's not just an overzealous mother. Perhaps, the real test is teaching someone who you think is not ready for witchcraft. BTW: What path does the child follow or the path that her mother teaches?

I don't see why pagans are often hesitate to teach a young child their craft while lots of Christians, Jews, and Muslims teach their toddlers their faith.

I can't speak for Astara Seague, but, maybe, it's cause Astara has her own life, kids, etc to lead, live, and teach. Also, magic is hard work, is it really good for a child to be subjected to that, unless they are super-talented, like Harry Potter?!.



You have no obligation to teach anyone anything.

Tell her to teach the kid herself.

This is really creepy, if you ask me.

I agree with Doctor Howl, and others, you have no obligation to teach her, her daughter, etc. Maybe she just wants you to do her work for her, like teaching her kid, etc. Also, if she's only using her daughter to get close to you, that is creepy, and, kind of, stalkerish that she wants to be so close to you. Maybe tell her, you'll give her some good resources to teach the kid, and/or her other kids too, but, the mother has to do it herself, and, that you'll help when, and, if, you want.

[David19]

AS, I am a mean old bitch who will tell it like it is sometimes. :uhhuhuh: I would tell her look I do not want to hurt your feelings and upset you but I am not in the business of taking people into my home to train, period end of story. If you want to have your daughter taught seek out someone else, it does not have to be your HP who already has enough on her plate. When the student is ready the teacher will come along. Then say Toodles. I have to run now ! :thumbsup:

Very great advice :thumbsup:.

[Caitlin.ann]

I agree with the others although I'd personally tell the woman to "hug off" and to teach her child herself. Its rude of the woman to bother you like she has and as another mentioned, taking a child in for religious reasons could come back to bite you in the arse if she throws out accusations of wrong-doing.

[Teresa]

It is kind of rude to ask that of you anyway, considering you are not that close.

LOL ! There is no " Kind of" in it . It is what it is!! Very Rude and Bossy to boot!

[~Elise~]

I agree that she is 'drama' waiting to happen. It might be better for her to find another group, one that has children and join it.

Face it, though, no matter what happens YOU ARE going to be the bad guy. This is the voice of experience.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

I know...
but one of the things that keep me from kicking her out is my husband asked me to take her under my wing as a favor for him...they went to school together...
I know..dumb reason...but its the truth
plus she isnt always that bad...
just halfway bad..
he knows how I feel...
he thinks Im being judgemental about her...he always gives me crap about that....but come on truth is truth and as Bronach says once you see a persons true colors its hard to paint them over

[~Elise~]

Then let him deal with her...I guarantee that won't last long.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

I hate to admit.. but I am hitting my limit...I just hate it when he says I think I know everything about everyone I meet... I cant help it its one of those "gifts" I wouldnt mind being without

But on the positive side I think he is finally seeing some of it

[~Elise~]

As someone who has been there...trust me, your group will be better for her absence.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

the saddest thing of all is I know that...

but I think she was sent to me for a reason...I just wish I could figure it out

you see I have never had to search for coven members..they always come to me and my experiance has been... it is for a reason..

[brymble]

I agree that she is 'drama' waiting to happen. It might be better for her to find another group, one that has children and join it.



Oh, don't wish her on another group! This kind of person is an attention-seeker, once they disrupt one group and wear out their welcome they'll simply move on to disrupt another!

[~Elise~]

the saddest thing of all is I know that...

but I think she was sent to me for a reason...I just wish I could figure it out

you see I have never had to search for coven members..they always come to me and my experiance has been... it is for a reason..


Sometimes the lesson is to learn to say NO to a member even joining. I've had to learn that one the hard way myself.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

Oh, don't wish her on another group! This kind of person is an attention-seeker, once they disrupt one group and wear out their welcome they'll simply move on to disrupt another!and sadly I do know she will only be happy if she is the HP of her own group...with her own rules
the thing is she isnt even close to that.. she hasnt got the experiance and
I dont think she could even handle that sort of responsibilty

[~Elise~]

Oh, don't wish her on another group! This kind of person is an attention-seeker, once they disrupt one group and wear out their welcome they'll simply move on to disrupt another!

She'll eventually find the right one for her OR she'll grow up and settle down...either way--they aren't bothering my group. I had to learn to do what was best for them in the long run.

Elise

[~Elise~]

and sadly I do know she will only be happy if she is the HP of her own group...with her own rules
the thing is she isnt even close to that.. she hasnt got the experiance and
I dont think she could even handle that sort of responsibilty

Are you sure she didn't live here in OK before.??...sounds like I've met her.

[Astara Seague]

Are you sure she didn't live here in OK before.??...sounds like I've met her.
Anythings possible!:thumbsup:
but honestly she is a Utah native...
thats another problem it is hard to find groups here
they are all in hiding...
I know sad...But...:imout:
I know I sound like a very bad HP

[Astara Seague]

the ones who practice here really need support...but they are all a bit..mixed up and disillusioned

[brymble]

and sadly I do know she will only be happy if she is the HP of her own group...with her own rules
the thing is she isnt even close to that.. she hasnt got the experiance and
I dont think she could even handle that sort of responsibilty


Then let her find that out.

Let her go start her own group, if that's what she wants to do, set herself up as the magical fairy priestess and play witchy dress-up until reality knocks her on her ass. She's either going to learn, or she isn't. If she keeps having problems in groups, either she's going to figure it out the hard way, or else give up and eagerly embrace the next selection in the Religion of the Month Club.

Her actions and judgement or lack thereof are not your responsibility.

You might want to give equal scrutiny to your own behavior patterns, as this situation seems to be inviting. Has there been a balance of power and responsibiility, or is there a danger of codependent caretaking? Are you relying on your own judgement to make decisions, or allowing yourself to be bullied by drama queens or pressured by your husband. Are you all clearly and effectively communicating your needs and addressing conflict, or are you getting sucked into power struggles that seemingly have a life of their own?

I think this is a wonderful invitation to Grace, and a great opportunity to expand your own growth as a teacher and priestess so that your core group gets even better!

[BlackLili]

:hugz: AS :hugz:

Okay, so after reading the thread, um...

Ditto, ditto, creepy attention-seeker, lives vicariously through her child, ditto, erm, and run. :thumbsup:

...'Kay! That about covers it! :bow:

Srsly, this is why I don't interact IRL with other people in general, let alone people in groups - specifically of religious natures. You said they all come to you though, so I'm obviously speaking from a different headspace. In general though, I agree with the others. You owe this woman nothing, least of all your time and effort with her child.

Although... you could just have a go at her for fun, and do it up fully medieval style. Like an apprenticeship agreement would have been stated, oh circa 1420.

"Party of the first part [the parents] release the party of the second part [you] of all legal liability during the agreed-upon time period of no less than 3 months (or one week) in terms of _______[daughter's legal name here].

__________ will be as the property of the party of the second part for the duration of the aforementioned time period, and is bound to serve and obey every instruction and command provided. As such, the second party is bound only to pass on the necessary instruction towards the goal of the apprenticeship.

At the end of the aforementioned time period, _________ will be returned to the care of the party of the first part, at which time a letter marking the completion of the apprenticeship will be awarded to ________.

After the completion of this process, the party of the second part will forthwith no longer be held to any obligation by the party of the first part, precluding future contracts."

And it wasn't spelled out quite like that at the time (this is what I get from considering a law degree once upon a time,) but that was the reality of signing one's child into servitude for the sake of apprenticing under a good master and gaining a viable profession that would provide for them the rest of their short, often miserable lives.

Any parent who would willingly sign a contract like that these days would be then conclusively a complete idiot. Also, possible of endangering her child - and that would make me run away all the faster. :giggle:

Good luck and let us know how it plays out.

[brymble]

Sometimes the lesson is to learn to say NO to a member even joining. I've had to learn that one the hard way myself.

Elise



Are you sure she didn't live here in OK before.??...sounds like I've met her.


Sadly, I think every participant in every group anywhere will recognize this type from somewhere. Every box of chocolates is bound to have a few nuts.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly the reason why I honestly don't believe that having an outer court is a bad idea.

[Astara Seague]

I think this is a wonderful invitation to Grace, and a great opportunity to expand your own growth as a teacher and priestess so that your core group gets even better!
Like I said she is my challange...:uhhuhuh:
and I think everything happens for a reason...
but we all have our limits

[Astara Seague]

:hugz: AS :hugz:

Okay, so after reading the thread, um...

Ditto, ditto, creepy attention-seeker, lives vicariously through her child, ditto, erm, and run. :thumbsup:

...'Kay! That about covers it! :bow:

Srsly, this is why I don't interact IRL with other people in general, let alone people in groups - specifically of religious natures. You said they all come to you though, so I'm obviously speaking from a different headspace. In general though, I agree with the others. You owe this woman nothing, least of all your time and effort with her child.

Although... you could just have a go at her for fun, and do it up fully medieval style. Like an apprenticeship agreement would have been stated, oh circa 1420.

"Party of the first part [the parents] release the party of the second part [you] of all legal liability during the agreed-upon time period of no less than 3 months (or one week) in terms of _______[daughter's legal name here].

__________ will be as the property of the party of the second part for the duration of the aforementioned time period, and is bound to serve and obey every instruction and command provided. As such, the second party is bound only to pass on the necessary instruction towards the goal of the apprenticeship.

At the end of the aforementioned time period, _________ will be returned to the care of the party of the first part, at which time a letter marking the completion of the apprenticeship will be awarded to ________.

After the completion of this process, the party of the second part will forthwith no longer be held to any obligation by the party of the first part, precluding future contracts."

And it wasn't spelled out quite like that at the time (this is what I get from considering a law degree once upon a time,) but that was the reality of signing one's child into servitude for the sake of apprenticing under a good master and gaining a viable profession that would provide for them the rest of their short, often miserable lives.

Any parent who would willingly sign a contract like that these days would be then conclusively a complete idiot. Also, possible of endangering her child - and that would make me run away all the faster. :giggle:

Good luck and let us know how it plays out.
:thumbsup:I do like your contract:uhhuhuh:

[brymble]

but we all have our limits

Then take this opportunity to set yours.

[Philosophia]

The woman is trying to live through her daughter. It's as simple as that. From the sound of it, her daughter isn't even that interested.

Continue to refuse her idea. It's a bad one.

Exactly.

Like everybody else state, she sounds like a drama queen that wants attention. Personally, I'd tell her no and than ignore her. :hugz:

[Teresa]

Sometimes the lesson is to learn to say NO to a member even joining. I've had to learn that one the hard way myself.

Elise

Damn you beat me to saying that "Sometimes it is a lesson for us to learn to say NO and grow thicker skin so we don't feel as bad dong so!"

[Sage Rainsong]

Well I think that you said it yourself in your title. You are not Harry Potter and your house is not Hogwarts. You don't need to take her daughter in. In fact I find it rather odd that the mother would even suggest such a thing. I'm sure that you are a great person but what kind of mother just pawns her kids off on someone that she doesn't know very well (I assume this because she said that she was fairly new)? I would tell her just what you said; your house is not Hogwarts. You have no obligation to them. Tell her that it's her job to teach her kids. If she cries, bitches, moans and tries to create attention around herself then tell her to leave. That may be harsh but she sounds a little crazy and she definitely seems like trouble waiting to happen. Please don't court that disaster. Oh and by the way :hugz:

[Ivy Artemisia]

Sadly, I think every participant in every group anywhere will recognize this type from somewhere. Every box of chocolates is bound to have a few nuts.

I hate to say it, but this is exactly the reason why I honestly don't believe that having an outer court is a bad idea.

This is precisely the reason the group I'm in has an outer court- its a good way to weed out the crazies. Not to say your member is "a crazy," but we've had our share, and had to adjust accordingly.

[PrincessKLS]

Shes 40... yeah I know... you would never believe it... no we dont have an incrowd.. in fact we are a learning coven... I train or have trained most of my members....I used to hold regular circles of learning for the members .. but I dont allow any members under 18 and they have to know something about it.. or have a family member that does



You say that you don't allow anyone under 18 but you taught a 12-year-old? But anyway, what's wrong with teaching children witchcraft?

Children are taught Christian beleifs all the time and rarely without any other religious viewpoints, except to say everyone else is wrong or the ancients worshipped many gods and goddesses.

[Teresa]

You say that you don't allow anyone under 18 but you taught a 12-year-old? But anyway, what's wrong with teaching children witchcraft?

Children are taught Christian beleifs all the time and rarely without any other religious viewpoints, except to say everyone else is wrong or the ancients worshipped many gods and goddesses.

She said she does not allow members under the age of 18! The children she did teach were living in her home at the time and one was her own son which would be totally a natural thing to do. Why should she "open her home up to someone that she has not offered this service to?" I think it was very rude for the woman to even ask in the first place much less try to force someone into doing so by being pushy about it. If I do not want to do something best believe I will say so too! AS is a HP of her coven and that is a busy position in and of itself. The woman should have enough sense to realize that and seek help elsewhere within the community. She never said anything is wrong with teaching children witchcraft, but it is not natural to take other peoples children into your home to live with you so that they can learn without you being the one to offer the services. That is the whole point of this thread. AS also stated that she did not feel this child was ready to learn just yet either. The teacher and the student should be in agreement before hand as well.

[Astara Seague]

She said she does not allow members under the age of 18! The children she did teach were living in her home at the time and one was her own son which would be totally a natural thing to do. Why should she "open her home up to someone that she has not offered this service to?" I think it was very rude for the woman to even ask in the first place much less try to force someone into doing so by being pushy about it. If I do not want to do something best believe I will say so too! AS is a HP of her coven and that is a busy position in and of itself. The woman should have enough sense to realize that and seek help elsewhere within the community. She never said anything is wrong with teaching children witchcraft, but it is not natural to talk other peoples children into your home to live with you so that they can learn without you being the one to offer the services. That is the whole point of this thread. AS also stated that she did not feel this child was ready to learn just yet either. The teacher and the student should be in agreement before hand as well.
Thank you Shalaye!:hugz:

[tallwoman.9169]

When I suggested you tell her to network with other pagan parents, I wasn't by any means condoning her behavior. She's 100 out of line, and I agree with others that you may need to be blunt possibly to the point of rudeness. Sounds like she has trouble accepting answers she doesn't like. I feel for you that you have to deal with this. She may have potential, but is the potential you intuit worth the headaches? Not a HPS, not ready. Don't know that I ever want that kind of responsibility. But if I were I'd sure be asking myself these questions.

[Teresa]

Thank you Shalaye!:hugz:

No problem at all..I am very selective about who I decide to teach and they go through a pretty lengthy interview process with me before I decide if I feel like agreeing to teaching the person. I also tell them my expectations and my level of standards and my philosophy that there is no point in doing something half- assed. The student has to also decide if they can be dedicated enough to put in the time required to learn as well. We have to come to an agreement between the both of us in the end before a process can really begin. Even though way back when there were no such standards as a year and a day, I feel like that was a smart move as it gives time for everyone to get aquainted and to see how devoted each other are. By the way I am not Wiccan but I can appreciate the value of knowing each other since it is like adopting a child when you begin to teach another person. You take responsibility for that person and their actions.

[tallwoman.9169]

it is like adopting a child when you begin to teach another person.

You are so right Shay. You do adopt them. They become a very real part of your family, and intimate in your life. Sometimes I think I take it for granted that I am part of a magickal family. And it's an important factor to consider.

[Astara Seague]

No problem at all..I am very selective about who I decide to teach and they go through a pretty lengthy interview process with me before I decide if I feel like agreeing to teaching the person. I also tell them my expectations and my level of standards and my philosophy that there is no point in doing something half- assed. The student has to also decide if they can be dedicated enough to put in the time required to learn as well. We have to come to an agreement between the both of us in the end before a process can really begin. Even though way back when there were no such standards as a year and a day, I feel like that was a smart move as it gives time for everyone to get aquainted and to see how devoted each other are. By the way I am not Wiccan but I can appreciate the value of knowing each other since it is like adopting a child when you begin to teach another person. You take responsibility for that person and their actions.that is true and that is why I am very selective of who I even consider allowing to join my spiritual family.. some think I should just open the coven up to anyone who asks but I can not or will I ever do that..

I actually have a questionaire and a test they have to take and then they have to have an interview with me and its not all fluffy either.. I tell them what I expect and so forth and ask if they can handle it..then they meet the others...for something casual then I get their take on the person and we decide together if they are allowed to join up or not

[Ivy Artemisia]

You say that you don't allow anyone under 18 but you taught a 12-year-old? But anyway, what's wrong with teaching children witchcraft?

Children are taught Christian beleifs all the time and rarely without any other religious viewpoints, except to say everyone else is wrong or the ancients worshipped many gods and goddesses.

There is a giant difference between teaching a child, and allowing a child to practice in an adult group. There are succesful family groups out there, but it can be difficult raising energy and performing more complicated rituals- the dynamic is completely different.

[Astara Seague]

There is a giant difference between teaching a child, and allowing a child to practice in an adult group. There are succesful family groups out there, but it can be difficult raising energy and performing more complicated rituals- the dynamic is completely different.
I can see how it would be...even at the events I have allowed the families to it is very difficult to keep a childs attention for any length of time and its hard to make them understand this is a time for being quiet and serious..in my experinaces they are more of a distraction if nothing else.. if not for other members but for their parents

[David19]

You say that you don't allow anyone under 18 but you taught a 12-year-old? But anyway, what's wrong with teaching children witchcraft?

Children are taught Christian beleifs all the time and rarely without any other religious viewpoints, except to say everyone else is wrong or the ancients worshipped many gods and goddesses.


She said she does not allow members under the age of 18! The children she did teach were living in her home at the time and one was her own son which would be totally a natural thing to do. Why should she "open her home up to someone that she has not offered this service to?" I think it was very rude for the woman to even ask in the first place much less try to force someone into doing so by being pushy about it. If I do not want to do something best believe I will say so too! AS is a HP of her coven and that is a busy position in and of itself. The woman should have enough sense to realize that and seek help elsewhere within the community. She never said anything is wrong with teaching children witchcraft, but it is not natural to take other peoples children into your home to live with you so that they can learn without you being the one to offer the services. That is the whole point of this thread. AS also stated that she did not feel this child was ready to learn just yet either. The teacher and the student should be in agreement before hand as well.

I agree with Shalaye, but, also, since when does witchcraft = religion/Gods, etc?. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids about a religion, like Wicca, or whatever, etc, but, that should be left to the parent, not someone else doing the parent's work for them, and, in regards to magic, I'm not sure if kids (like around 9, or 10) would be able to learn magic, as it's hard work.

Also, the majority of the ancients did worship many Gods.

[Teresa]

I can see how it would be...even at the events I have allowed the families to it is very difficult to keep a childs attention for any length of time and its hard to make them understand this is a time for being quiet and serious..in my experinaces they are more of a distraction if nothing else.. if not for other members but for their parents

That is very true AS, We try to have activities that the children can do with some supervision by volunteers with in our group for most of the events that are listed as "family friendly". This way the kids have fun and the parents can take part in the ritual without the distraction.

[~Elise~]

There are a myriad of legal reasons why you do not teach anyone under 18. Occasionally, I'll teach a student under 18, but I have face to face with the parents (who have to show ID) and they sign a permission slip. I've not had an under 18 student for over 4 years now.

Until they reach the age of majority, a parent has the right to say what the child can and can not learn, religious or otherwise.

That should be taught in the home, IMO. But, the interaction with other kids is essential, as well. We have a Children's Circle in our city-wide community that meets once a month and has things designed for children interest and attention level.

Our group...now we have a couple of ceremonies a year designed for kids. But you know, I have a hard time getting the parents involved and getting that organized. I figure, if they're not going to bother, why should I?

JMO and YMMV

Elise

[PrincessKLS]

She said she does not allow members under the age of 18! The children she did teach were living in her home at the time and one was her own son which would be totally a natural thing to do. Why should she "open her home up to someone that she has not offered this service to?" I think it was very rude for the woman to even ask in the first place much less try to force someone into doing so by being pushy about it. If I do not want to do something best believe I will say so too! AS is a HP of her coven and that is a busy position in and of itself. The woman should have enough sense to realize that and seek help elsewhere within the community. She never said anything is wrong with teaching children witchcraft, but it is not natural to take other peoples children into your home to live with you so that they can learn without you being the one to offer the services. That is the whole point of this thread. AS also stated that she did not feel this child was ready to learn just yet either. The teacher and the student should be in agreement before hand as well.


Hmmm, I can see your point, perhaps it is questionable why the woman herself won't teach her child.

[Astara Seague]

That is very true AS, We try to have activities that the children can do with some supervision by volunteers with in our group for most of the events that are listed as "family friendly". This way the kids have fun and the parents can take part in the ritual without the distraction.

unfortunatly our group isnt large enough for that...it is a good idea though...on the sabbat celebrations that I allow family we always have games and activities {that have something to do the sabbat} for the children.. and simple things.. nothing formal ...we do have a blessing and talk about what we are celebrating and why so the kids will know at least that much..but no rituals when the kids are about..

[Teresa]

unfortunatly our group isnt large enough for that...it is a good idea though...on the sabbat celebrations that I allow family we always have games and activities {that have something to do the sabbat} for the children.. and simple things.. nothing formal ...we do have a blessing and talk about what we are celebrating and why so the kids will know at least that much..but no rituals when the kids are about..

Yes we have things like face paintings and once we had a fairy wings craft etc. The activities are always based on what is being celebrated. We have had belly dancing and let the kids join in and try to learn which they loved too ! :thumbsup:

[CzechWoods]

astara. it is very simple, and thats what appears to be hard.

simply say no.

she may act up, get angry etc.

you just say no.

i would tell her that no further explanation is needed on your behalf, tel her to meditate on why you say no. make this a test for her skills and abilities.

if she grows, she can teach her daughter by herself. if she doesnt, why should anyone else ?

[Happydeadkitty]

Wow that IS creepy. I wouldn't even send my daughter to my parents house for longer than a week. I mean really... who asks another person to take care of their child for the summer? Sounds like she wants a free babysitter for the summer...weird.

Everything about her drama aside, most normal parents don't try to talk someone else into taking their child for an extended period of time whatever the reason.

I agree with the others..."Um..no means no..."

HDK

[Astara Seague]

Just so everyone knows..I did tell her no..thank you for all your help..
yeah she is mad...but she will get over it..or she wont...guess we will see

[iceskater12]

My advice on the whole situation:

I have to say that I began my training when I was eleven, I think I turned out fine. But I would warn you about it though, I am a new member because I really have only been praticing, praticing with actual religion and rituals for about a month, as I am turning sixteen and will be iniated on the next Beltane and get my first degree before I turn 17.

The first thing I would do is talk to the girl, you're not going to be training the mom after all. If she seems geniune and interested, and you think she has potential, maybe you could talk about tutoring her? I completely agree that your house is not a boarding house.

If you see no potential and the mom persists, maybe you could just tutor her on basic properties of herbs, color magic, and crystals and gems. That's what I was taught when I began my training, and I'm thankful I learned it now.

If you say no then you don't need a further explanation, but maybe you could organize a kid related activity for everyone with kids, that way everyone in your group with children would benefit, and it would not seem like you where playing favorites.

If she remains mad, you could suggest that the mother begin by teaching her herbs, gods and godesses, and other things that you don't need more complicated skills to do or use. Everyone, even adults, start small.

[Darth Brooks]

I agree with everyone else who suggested no, and I'm glad that you refused to do it Astara. I also agree with Doctor Howl that this is really quite a creepy request. I would never allow somebody to leave their kid in my house, alone with me and unsupervised. The very idea itself has "McMartin Trial" written all over it.