Hypocrites in the pagan landscape

[Arkana]

Well... pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn. A time ago I opened in another chatting circle a thread about open sexuality (by free will and so on) in rituals. Very soon, despite myself being very moderate, I was evilst attacked and verbally abused - and, that was the top of it!, I was claimed to be an enemy of open sexuality. (that is, exactly the contrary I was campaining for!)
Sure, sometimes my ideas are possibly kind of 'provoking', but in my eyes this means 'thought provoking' and this is not the announcement for free verbal abuse...
And the absolute hit was: A certain 'committee of the elders' (there were also teenagers in it!!) warned me (!) 'not to continue like that' instead of critizising the perpetrators because of their verbal abuse. This was the absolute hit in hypocrisy.
Have you had similar experiences?:weirdsmil

[Infinite Grey]

Well... pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn. A time ago I opened in another chatting circle a thread about open sexuality (by free will and so on) in rituals. Very soon, despite myself being very moderate, I was evilst attacked and verbally abused - and, that was the top of it!, I was claimed to be an enemy of open sexuality. (that is, exactly the contrary I was campaining for!)
Sure, sometimes my ideas are possibly kind of 'provoking', but in my eyes this means 'thought provoking' and this is not the announcement for free verbal abuse...
And the absolute hit was: A certain 'committee of the elders' (there were also teenagers in it!!) warned me (!) 'not to continue like that' instead of critizising the perpetrators because of their verbal abuse. This was the absolute hit in hypocrisy.
Have you had similar experiences?:weirdsmil

What the hell are you talking about?

[Agaliha]

I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about, but I'm going to move this thread to Just Pagan (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=126) as The Site Room (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38) is not the place for discussions such as these.

I'm pretty sure this didn't happen here, but in case: if you happened to encounter anyone on MW attacking you in such a manner, please use the report button and the Admins will look into the situation.

[Lunacie]

That's a popular misconception that Pagans are "violence avoiding fluffy bunnies." We're just like other people.

I've certainly been misunderstood in online forums as well as in real life. Sometimes what we're trying to say doesn't come out exactly the way we think it's going to, sometimes people are reading with a different perspective and take what we write all wrong. If trying to explain it better and more clearly just makes it more confusing and gets you more negative feedback, it may be time to leave the conversation.

[Arkana]

@ Infinite Grey: Am I not talking plain and clear English?
@ Agalitha: I said clearly in another chatting circle.
@ Lunacie: Yep - that's exactly what I did then. I my humble judgment those people were simple not mature and able enough to lead a reasonable discussion.

But - this was not the question I asked at the end...:hehehehe:

[Infinite Grey]

@ Infinite Grey: Am I not talking plain and clear English?


Ummm no. Not really.


English is not your first language?

[Agaliha]

@ Agalitha: I said clearly in another chatting circle.


And I said: "I'm pretty sure this didn't happen here, but in case..."
Since you posted this in The Site Room (which is reserved for problems with this site), I thought for a moment, perhaps it did happen here, but then figured it out. I added the thing about the rules only to inform you. *shrug* Regardless, you thread is moved to a more correct area, which is the sole reason why I posted in the first place.

[Lunacie]

You asked (at the end of the OP), "Have you had similar experiences?"

I answered, "I've certainly been misunderstood in online forums as well as in real life."

Did I not answer your question?

[RainInanna]

pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn.

Yes, quite true. Some accept violence as necessary, some suggest there are those who should be more violent, some don't like it. I tend towards the idea that nature is pretty violent herself, so while I don't condone unnecessary violence, I accept it as a part of life.

Sure, sometimes my ideas are possibly kind of 'provoking', but in my eyes this means 'thought provoking' and this is not the announcement for free verbal abuse...

I have to wonder; at what point do you consider changing your own communication style to see if you get better results?

I used to think I was just "thought provoking" as well, but when I realized how often people were just provoked and offended rather than seeing my message, I accepted perhaps I was responsible in part for the misunderstanding.

Frankly, I realized it was a waste of time - people were too busy being upset to see I had anything intelligent to say. So I did less provoking and more thoughtful, and suddenly people seemed to think more about what I had to say rather than getting defensive. Just a thought for you.

[Arkana]

@ Infinite Grey: You are extremely polite. Is it your native language? Or is it Swedish instead? Sorry, I am only sometimes working as a translator/interpreter and occasionally as a scientific author. Maybe that's why my language does not suit you.
@ Agalitha: You surely did the right thing and moved this item to the right location, thanks for that. It is just driving for the first time: You (me) have to learn to orientate first ... and every forum is different. But in the core of this subject we agree to each other - and that's good.
@ Lunacie: Yes, YOU did - sorry, I did not mention that. Some others though did not...:hehehehe:
@ RainInanna: You obviously read my elaborate very thoroughly - thanks for that. Also for the very careful hint - understood. But I am also able to take heavy blows - as long as they are uttered politely...:bigredgri

What I still cannot accept, is when people/groups break their own given rules just to bash someone - whatever style of communication s/he used, as long as it is common and polite and non-aggressive.
I was already attacked verbally in my youth just for using a more 'intellectual' style of conversation. I did not do this intentionally - I just GREW up with this in my type of school. And I do not want to screw down to slang level - I do not blame people if THEY use slang and I simply do not want to be attacked for my way of using words. A friendly hint though, like yours, is always accepted. *pals*

[RainInanna]

I was already attacked verbally in my youth just for using a more 'intellectual' style of conversation. I did not do this intentionally - I just GREW up with this in my type of school. And I do not want to screw down to slang level - I do not blame people if THEY use slang and I simply do not want to be attacked for my way of using words.

I can say I understand and appreciate your opinion on this. I have faced some attack due to "intellectual style" as well.

Unfortunately discussion can be misunderstood ESPECIALLY online by people who are already feeling defensive about their choices (in this example, open sexuality). Depending on the group, I find sometimes more focus is put towards a united front and "pack mentality" by popular members than towards understanding what others are trying to say.

Those who come to Paganism to escape discrimination or to find a clique of like-minded people can often be more intent on the strength of the clique than investigating new ideas. Yes, sometimes it seems very hypocritical for the same people who demand equality and understanding rather than discrimination to, in turn, spew hateful discrimination against others who disagree with them. Some people are blinded by their ego and need to belong.

To be sure, sometimes people ought to make a better effort to politely ask for clarification and accept *they* may misunderstand rather than that the speaker is being deliberately offensive.

I think you and I quite agree on that.

[dr_zeus440]

Misunderstandings are rife where written communication is concerned. One learns to communicate more effectively.

[cheddarsox]

Have you had similar experiences?:weirdsmil

Yes, I have. On another religious forum I frequent (for another faith) there is a forum for "other religions" on which I sometimes join discussions. However, rather frequently people of the faith the entire site is about will often jump in and purposely misrepresent what I am saying to discredit my comments.

So basically I will say "I believe this" and they will say "so, basically you are saying that everyone who doesn't think as you do is irrational and stupid."

Huh?

Or, simply by my not belonging to their faith, they will, no matter how I conduct myself, accuse me of bashing their faith, trying to convert their members to my faith (when I respond to questions they ask about MY faith!) etc.

They lie, misrepresent, misquote and make fun of me, all of which is against their faith and forum rules, in some effort to show that their beliefs are better than mine, and that they are better than me because of it.

The way I look at it is this...people who read the threads aren't stupid. They can see that those people are doing those things and that I'm not. The more I keep my head, the stupider they make themselves look.

it can get annoying, sure, but I just remind myself that in the end, we both show what we are made of.

[David19]

Well... pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn. A time ago I opened in another chatting circle a thread about open sexuality (by free will and so on) in rituals. Very soon, despite myself being very moderate, I was evilst attacked and verbally abused - and, that was the top of it!, I was claimed to be an enemy of open sexuality. (that is, exactly the contrary I was campaining for!)
Sure, sometimes my ideas are possibly kind of 'provoking', but in my eyes this means 'thought provoking' and this is not the announcement for free verbal abuse...
And the absolute hit was: A certain 'committee of the elders' (there were also teenagers in it!!) warned me (!) 'not to continue like that' instead of critizising the perpetrators because of their verbal abuse. This was the absolute hit in hypocrisy.
Have you had similar experiences?:weirdsmil

What the hell are you talking about?

@ Infinite Grey: Am I not talking plain and clear English?
@ Agalitha: I said clearly in another chatting circle.
@ Lunacie: Yep - that's exactly what I did then. I my humble judgment those people were simple not mature and able enough to lead a reasonable discussion.

But - this was not the question I asked at the end...:hehehehe:

Ummm no. Not really.


English is not your first language?

@ Infinite Grey: You are extremely polite. Is it your native language? Or is it Swedish instead? Sorry, I am only sometimes working as a translator/interpreter and occasionally as a scientific author. Maybe that's why my language does not suit you.
@ Agalitha: You surely did the right thing and moved this item to the right location, thanks for that. It is just driving for the first time: You (me) have to learn to orientate first ... and every forum is different. But in the core of this subject we agree to each other - and that's good.
@ Lunacie: Yes, YOU did - sorry, I did not mention that. Some others though did not...:hehehehe:
@ RainInanna: You obviously read my elaborate very thoroughly - thanks for that. Also for the very careful hint - understood. But I am also able to take heavy blows - as long as they are uttered politely...:bigredgri

What I still cannot accept, is when people/groups break their own given rules just to bash someone - whatever style of communication s/he used, as long as it is common and polite and non-aggressive.
I was already attacked verbally in my youth just for using a more 'intellectual' style of conversation. I did not do this intentionally - I just GREW up with this in my type of school. And I do not want to screw down to slang level - I do not blame people if THEY use slang and I simply do not want to be attacked for my way of using words. A friendly hint though, like yours, is always accepted. *pals*

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but, I'm like Infinite Grey, what's the problem?, that you were attacked for something?. Pagans are just like everyone else - there are assholes, fundamentalists, etc.

[RainInanna]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but, I'm like Infinite Grey, what's the problem?, that you were attacked for something?. Pagans are just like everyone else - there are assholes, fundamentalists, etc.

You don't think it's a problem that some people are assholes?

Hrm. I do. I don't like assholes. Guess YMMV?

[Sacredsin]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but, I'm like Infinite Grey, what's the problem?, that you were attacked for something?. Pagans are just like everyone else - there are assholes, fundamentalists, etc.

Agreed.

[Lunacie]

I thought the OP was saying that the problem was that while she wasn't attacking anyone or criticizing others, those who attacked her posts were not cautioned by the mods of that forum while she was given a caution. She felt it was hypocritical.


edited to add... Sorry! Should have written "he" and "his". :foopsies:

[LadyWinter]

You don't think it's a problem that some people are assholes?

Hrm. I do. I don't like assholes. Guess YMMV?

It may be a problem but there is really nothing you can do about it. Being an asshole, while inconvienent is not against the law.

W.

[Terra Mater]

You don't think it's a problem that some people are assholes?

Hrm. I do. I don't like assholes. Guess YMMV?
Depends on the asshole. Some of my best friends are considered to be assholes by some of my other best friends. I have even been accused of being an asshole (and at times I am). Its not like there is a one size fits all definition for assholes.

The word "asshole" is mainly used as a profanity towards someone the speaker does not like or whose behavior is hurtful, self-centered, or particularly abrasive. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation as to who is and isn't an asshole. So while one person may feel one person is an asshole, others may and will disagree.

If it helps, remember the original definition of "asshole" is anus, an orifice whose function is to spew excrement. When you encounter someone you feel is an "asshole" just wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on.:hehehe:

[RainInanna]

Of course not.

But we're on a message board. He wanted to discuss his experience with people. Why ask what his problem is? His problem is people were assholes and he wanted to talk about it.

[Sacredsin]

Asshole - Dennis Leary.

Goodo song..listen and love it.

[Sacredsin]

Of course not.

But we're on a message board. He wanted to discuss his experience with people. Why ask what his problem is? His problem is people were assholes and he wanted to talk about it.

Why not?

Does being curious make one an asshole? Or are we to take one's word for it?

[RainInanna]

Or are we to take one's word for it?

To take one's word that they started a thread sharing an experience and asking if others had a similar experience because they wanted to talk about their experience? I'm afraid I don't see the puzzle in all this?

When you encounter someone you feel is an "asshole" just wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on.

:lol: Good advice :)

[Sacredsin]

To take one's word that they started a thread sharing an experience and asking if others had a similar experience because they wanted to talk about their experience? I'm afraid I don't see the puzzle in all this?



:lol: Good advice :)

I'm afraid I don't see the problem in asking questions. Especially not when posters received unnecessary attitude when offering completely innocent statements.

[RainInanna]

Especially not when posters received unnecessary attitude when offering completely innocent statements.

Well, I couldn't agree more! Good to know we are on the same page.

[Sacredsin]

Real nice jab there.

[Beatnik Bettie]

Well... pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn.

Well, here's your initial erroneous assumption... :)

[Lunacie]

Whoa! This isn't "Political Pagan", this is "JUST Pagan." Flame retardant suits are not de rigour here eh?

[Teresa]

Thank Goodness Philbo sent me some Asshat Repelent !!! :thumbsup::giggle::uhhuhuh:

[SammieAnn]

Well... pagans are not always violence avoiding fluffy bunnies I had to learn. A time ago I opened in another chatting circle a thread about open sexuality (by free will and so on) in rituals. Very soon, despite myself being very moderate, I was evilst attacked and verbally abused - and, that was the top of it!, I was claimed to be an enemy of open sexuality. (that is, exactly the contrary I was campaining for!)
Sure, sometimes my ideas are possibly kind of 'provoking', but in my eyes this means 'thought provoking' and this is not the announcement for free verbal abuse...
And the absolute hit was: A certain 'committee of the elders' (there were also teenagers in it!!) warned me (!) 'not to continue like that' instead of critizising the perpetrators because of their verbal abuse. This was the absolute hit in hypocrisy.
Have you had similar experiences?:weirdsmil


Yes I have had problems with people in the pagan comunity, but then again I have had problems with people who are not pagans.
Some people are just assholes, I know I can be quite the ass when I want to.

[~Elise~]

Please stay on the topic...

[SammieAnn]

Thank Goodness Philbo sent me some Asshat Repelent !!! :thumbsup::giggle::uhhuhuh:

I am glad I have my tinfoil hat.

[David19]

Agreed.

Glad I wasn't the only one ;).

I thought the OP was saying that the problem was that while she wasn't attacking anyone or criticizing others, those who attacked her posts were not cautioned by the mods of that forum while she was given a caution. She felt it was hypocritical.


edited to add... Sorry! Should have written "he" and "his". :foopsies:

Ok, thanks for explaining it :).

[David19]

Depends on the asshole. Some of my best friends are considered to be assholes by some of my other best friends. I have even been accused of being an asshole (and at times I am). Its not like there is a one size fits all definition for assholes.

The word "asshole" is mainly used as a profanity towards someone the speaker does not like or whose behavior is hurtful, self-centered, or particularly abrasive. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation as to who is and isn't an asshole. So while one person may feel one person is an asshole, others may and will disagree.

If it helps, remember the original definition of "asshole" is anus, an orifice whose function is to spew excrement. When you encounter someone you feel is an "asshole" just wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on.:hehehe:

Definitely very true :thumbsup: :cheers: :).

[David19]

Well, here's your initial erroneous assumption... :)

Very true, just go into PP to learn that :).

[Arkana]

I can say I understand and appreciate your opinion on this. I have faced some attack due to "intellectual style" as well.
...
To be sure, sometimes people ought to make a better effort to politely ask for clarification and accept *they* may misunderstand rather than that the speaker is being deliberately offensive.
I think you and I quite agree on that.

Yes, fully, RainInanna - thanks for you support.:thumbsup:

[Arkana]

Wow! :thumbsup:
I have - despite of technical difficulties (browser was permanently jumping forward and backwards on the listed pages) - read all the posts and was surprised! Obviously this IS an issue observed by many of you!
Thanks for all the support, information and even the critics!
:bow: