since we're on the political issues!!

[Elaine]

recently a law was passed ...I don't know if it was across the country or just in Ohio...but it was passed that if you injure a woman who is pregnant it is double the charge...so if you murder a pregnant woman and the baby also dies you are charged with 2 counts of murder....I agree with this law...but a woman I work with has an opinion that I disagree with 150%....she is 100% for that law...but she is pro-choice in the abortion issue.....I believe that is a contradiction in her belief system.....if you are going to have respect for an unborn life you should have it regardless of what the circumstances are....a baby....whether born or unborn is still a baby...and therefore abortion is murder....I think that there are certain circumstances where abortion should be legal....I have been date raped before and I know that if I had gotten pregnant from that it would have killed me to have that child as a daily reminder of that experience...but otherwise I believe when a woman says "it's my body, it's my choice" they have not completely thought things through....you're choice is when you decide to have sex!! you must deal with the consequences if they occur!!

What are you're thoughts on this law...and on the thoughts of my co-worker?? just curious......

I apologise for bringing up this topic...I know that it is a huge issue ...and a frustrating one for some to talk about....but I just wanted to know other peoples thoughts on this law...if I have offended any or should not have for any reason brought this topic up...please say so and I will deleate it....

[Yvonne Belisle]

There are lots of reasons someone may chose to have an abortion. There is a prior thread on the topic as well. Something you need to remember is that even when we are married we don't always chose to have sex. I know you didn't mean to insult anyone but I personally have two children who are the product of rape by my exhusband and I had to have an abortion for medical reasons as well. That child was also the product of rape by him which has not made the pain of that choice any easier. This is a painfull topic for me and several others but it is also something powerful that will always polarize people in there opinions. I personally am pro-choice anti-abortion. No this is not a contradiction. I believe that it is my body and therefore my right and responsibility. I do not believe that a stranger should have the right to make my desisions for me. I also don't think abortion is the answer I think education is. I have met college students that honestly do not know how babies are made!!! This is not an exageration it occurs quite often. Then you have the myth that pulling out before ejaculation will keep you from getting pregnant, don't forget the one that says if it's your time of month or you are nursing you can't get pregnant. There are far to many misconceptions to list. A couple can honestly believe that they are being safe and not be. It is commonly found in kids who's parents will not let them take sex education or who are home schooled. Religious schools also like to leave a lot of this information out although many of them are getting better about it. I personally remember my Mother showing me articles on how women died during back street abortions I can't justify seeing someone die who was desprate. Those women were if abortions are made illegal again think of the young girls with wire hangers or going to a back street abortionist. I have a daughter I don't want her to ever feel she needs one but if she does I want her as safe as possible.

[Vinga]

I agree with Yvonne, there are so many reasons why women are forced to turn to abortion, like rape, medical reasons and 13 year olds getting pregnant because they quite frankly don't know any better. If abortion was illegal, these problems would not go away, instead thousands of women would die or become damaged for life from illegal practices (not to mention the latest horrible trend of leaving newborn babies in trashcans).
I also agree abortion is not something that should be taken lightly, but I think any woman that has ever been in that situation can tell you it's not an easy choice and it's not made lightly.

One thing I have never understood (and feel free to disagree) is those that are opposed to condom machines in schools, especially since these same people seem to also be opposed to abortion. Teenagers have sex, there is no hiding from that fact and they will not stop having sex just because adults choose to live in denial. I mean since we can't stop them, wouldn't the most logical thing be to make sure they are safe? Some argue that the condom machines would enable more teens to have sex...well maybe, but rather safe than sorry.
JMHO :)

[Elaine]

I have to agree with the idea of condom machines in schools...teenagers have sex anyways and most are embarrassed to go to the store and by a box of condoms...if they could go in between classes with no one around...there's no embarrassment and I think they would be more likely to use them...just because the machine is there...I don't think it would influence people to have sex...I just think it says...if you're gonna do it, please be careful!! the parents can't protect them all of the time.....teenagers, regardless of how hard the parents try, get in situations where they are alone with peers of the opposite sex...and the only thing to help in that situation is an education of what could happen...and as much protection they can get....

again I hope I did not offend anyone...reading over those two responses has opened my mind more than you can ever know...I agree that making abortion illegal would in the long run be dangerous because there are people that would go to any length to have it done...regardless of the legality of it....I have never really looked at every aspect of it until tonight....I apologize if I brought up painful memories for you Yvonne...but if it helps any you have educated me with what you had to say!

[Yvonne Belisle]

If my pain opens up even one eye to the other side and makes it easier to understand then it is a little easier to bare. I don't want anyone to change thier beliefs just to see both sides of the issue. If everyone in this world agreed with everyone else it would be very boring. I have seen a lot of prolifers that are not willing to put thier homes and money where their mouths are. I am not saying you or anyone else at this site are like this! You may want to consider this though. How many prolifers do you know that have taken in a crack baby whose Mother was convinced not to abort? How many do you know who have taken in a teen Mother and helped her finish school? I know a lot of them that adopt or try to adopt but they still don't want the less than perfect. There are those that do and they are rare. I have to congradulate them because they have seen the results that are hidden and are doing something about them. As you may realize there are no easy answers and the more charged an issue the harder the questions and the harder the answers. I sure don't have them and I really wish I did. I only hope that there will come a day where this issue is no longer a problem for anyone because it won't be needed. I would love to see everyperson educated to where accidents are rare but I don't believe that will be in my lifetime.

[Amethyst Rose]

Originally posted by Elaine
but a woman I work with has an opinion that I disagree with 150%....she is 100% for that law...but she is pro-choice in the abortion issue.....I believe that is a contradiction in her belief system.....

I don't really think so..... being pro-choice, simply means you believe that a woman has the right to CHOOSE. There is a big difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion.

[*ULA*]

Originally posted by Amethyst Rose


I don't really think so..... being pro-choice, simply means you believe that a woman has the right to CHOOSE. There is a big difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion.

I have to agree with Amethyst Rose...
I am pro-choice, and I also agree with the new law.
I believe it is a woman's choice - and although I don't think I could ever go through with an abortion - there are always different circumstances - and I don't think it's right to make a woman have a child that she doesn't want. That child's life will probably be shitty - and his/her life would be lost anyway, if just in spirit.
I'll say it again - I think it is a woman's choice, and not the choice of a drunk driver or a psychopath with a gun who aims for the belly.
I don't know... I can only say how I feel, and some things I can't justify - just that they FEEL right.

[idusty88]

This is a piece of legislation which has been approved by the house (I think) and is now being processed through the senate, where I hope it is killed. I always find it baffling to hear a woman say she is pro-life in the sense that she opposes a woman's right to choose. I am pro-choice because I consider this to be the very foundation of women's personal liberties. If a woman does not have control over her own body then she has no control at all (which is exactly the way the far right conservatives want it).
This piece of legislation is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It seems like a good thing, but its real purpose is to undermine women's reproductive rights. If enacted, any woman or doctor who performs an abortion could be prosecuted for murder. In fact, if you had a miscarriage and it was as a result of something you did, you could be prosecuted.
Find out more at: http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=11050
My advice is to never form an opinion before you gather the facts.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Thank you Idusty88 it's something I think we are all guilty of at one time or another. I tend to suffer from that ailment a lot. Looking for the cure. :)