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*Rasenna*
August 22nd, 2008, 07:23 PM
I feel that this topic deserves its own thread (as opposed to be tagged on to a related topic. During some research I encountered a couple of passages that are very inspiring. Hence this new thread. :)

To begin, here is some foundation. According to historian Lucia Chiavola Birnbaum: "The civilization of the goddess in Italy is verified by archaeological evidence all along the Lingurian, Tyrrhenian, Adriatic, Ionian, and Mediterranean islands of Sicily, Malta, and Sardinia."

Birnbaum mentions divine feminine figures, and cave drawings, discovered near Palermo that date 30,000 years before the Christian era. She also mentions them found on the islands of Malta and Sardinia, dating from 6,000 to 3,500 years before the Christian era. What they share in common are two things. They appear to represent a mother goddess concept, and in close proximity to the Paleolithic and Neolithic sites are the sanctuaries of what is know as the black madonnas. The black maddona is an unusual image of St. Mary compared to the number of statues that show her as a Caucasian.

Here is what Birnbaum has to say about the black maddona:

“Black Maddonas may be considered a metaphor for a memory of time when the earth was believed to be the body of a woman and all creatures were equal, a memory transmitted in vernacular traditions of earth-bonded cultures, historically expressed in cultural and political resistance, and glimpsed today in movements aiming for transformation” – Black Madonnas: Feminism, Religion & Politics in Italy, page 3.

She goes on to say:

"Images of the ancient divinity can be seen througout Italy: in Sicily, a statue of Isis at Solunto, twelve statues of Cybele at Palazzola Acreide, and many full-busomed mothers at Megara Hyblaea. In southern Italy at Capua, two hundred statues of mother goddesses, Deae Matres, of the seventh to the first centuries b.c.e. merge goddess and child. In the archaeological museum of Naples, a nearly seven-foot tall statue of a black Artemis/Diana of Ephesus melds goddess and all living creatures and suggests the prechristian antecedents of black madonnas." - page 7

The mention of a black Artemis/Diana brings to mind something written by Pausanias in ancient Greece:

"The road to Antikyra [in Phokis] is at first up-hill. About two stades up the slope is a level place, and on the right of the road is a sanctuary of Artemis surnamed Diktynnaia (Of the Nets), a goddess worshipped with great reverence by citizens. The image is of Aiginetan workmanship, and made of a black stone. From the sanctuary of Diktynnaia the road is downhill all the way to Antikyra. They say that in days of old the name of the city was Kyparissos." - Pausanias, Description of Greece 10. 36. 5

Are we looking at the origins and roots on the black madonna in the ancient cult of Diana/Artemis? :artist:

Well, here's an interesting thing to think about:

“..it was at Ephesus, the city where the Greaco-Roman goddess Artemis-Diana was venerated, that the church proclaimed Mary the mother of god in 431 ce” - page 32, Black Madonnas: Feminism, Religion & Politics in Italy

Is it a coincidence that St. Mary is bestowed the title of “the mother of god” in the city of Ephesus, which featured the biblical “Diana of Ephesus” the mother of all living creatures?

Let’s turn now to Italian subculture and the goddess. Birnbaum writes of her book Black Madonnas:

“This book explores the hypothesis that the veneration of the indigenous goddess of Old Europe merged with African, Middle Eastern, and Asian dark goddesses and persisted in the Christian era in vernacular beliefs and rituals associated with black maddonas. The term ‘vernacular’ connotes submerged beliefs visible in the everyday activities of people Antonio Gramsci described as ‘subaltern classes.’ Woman, historically subordinated culturally, as well as economically and politically, by hegemonies of church, society, and state, may be said to pertain, along with other colonized peoples, to the subaltern classes” - page 4

So the historian is looking at the veneration of the black madonna in Italian culture as carrying a former connection to the goddess of pre-Christian Italy. Birnbaum uses the term "subaltern" to indicate that a specific type of Italian subcultures is home to persisting ways of the ancient goddess cult. Birnbaum takes the position that traces of this are found in the vernacular of specific subcultures. She writes of this:

“Vernacular ways of knowing and believing, bypassing established knowledge and belief, are implied in the metaphor of black maddonas. In this sense, this study participates in what Michel Foucault called ‘insurrection of subjugated knowledges,’ a revolt visible in accumulating evidence, and growing awareness, that the oldest divinity perceived by humans was a woman. Black maddonas, like the primordial woman divinity, are believed to nurture all life, all the different peoples of the earth, and all the seasons of life: birth, maturity, death, and regeneration.” – page 4

And this:

“Not a romantic excursion, this study of the beliefs of the vernacular, submerged cultures of Italy is in agreement with Antonio Gramsci that folklore can challenge hegemonic culture, and that the revolutions are authentic when they tap submerged beliefs of denied cultures” – page 14

Hegemonic refers to the domination of one thing over another, and in this case is referring to the accepted majority view of Italian culture. But what we find in the paragraph is a challenge to that order. It comes in the form of the point that folklore can be someone’s history instead of someone’s legends. This stands out no better than in the comment made by a Sicilian folklorist named Giuseppe Pitre’ – “ The significant history of a people, not to be confused with the history of their rulers, is to be found in folkloric beliefs and customs transmitted orally or enacted in rituals”

Let’s chew on all this for now, and my next post will delve into “folklore as history” or some such thing. I'll be referring to Sicilian sources as well as to mainland Italian. :chattin:

Rilasciato
August 22nd, 2008, 07:52 PM
Birnbaum mentions divine feminine figures, and cave drawings, discovered near Palermo that date 30,000 years before the Christian era.
This dating is gaining more and more acceptance amongst those who study the history of religions. Of course, it is met with fierce opposition by the Christian community, for reasons that we all know and do not need to discuss in this thread. However, as a point of origin, the dating of the beginning of worship being tagged as goddess worship brings a greater respect for Paganism in general to those who are willing and eager to learn about where "it all began". This is very exciting to me, personally, as I am Sicilian and my Family Tradition began several hundred years ago in Sicily and has been based there until the 1920's. I will be watching these developments, as I have been, very closely.


Is it a coincidence that St. Mary is bestowed the title of “the mother of god” in the city of Ephesus, which featured the biblical “Diana of Ephesus” the mother of all living creatures?
No, it is no coincidence. When religions in Europe began to take a patriarichal twist, the theologions could not ignore goddess worship. It was too ingrained into humanity to just delete it. It HAD to be incorporated somewhere and in some way to keep the newly forming religion palpable to Pagans.


Hegemonic refers to the domination of one thing over another, and in this case is referring to the accepted majority view of Italian culture. But what we find in the paragraph is a challenge to that order. It comes in the form of the point that folklore can be someone’s history instead of someone’s legends. This stands out no better than in the comment made by a Sicilian folklorist named Giuseppe Pitre’ – “ The significant history of a people, not to be confused with the history of their rulers, is to be found in folkloric beliefs and customs transmitted orally or enacted in rituals”

Let’s chew on all this for now, and my next post will delve into “folklore as history” or some such thing. I'll be referring to Sicilian sources as well as to mainland Italian.
Yes, indeed, when we look at the history that is presented to the world in the history books and the municipal records and the conquests of battles we are getting a "sales pitch". The true revelation of a society is manifested in how the people live, thrive and survive. Their culture, ritual, worship, etc. Legends are expanded. History is presented. Culture, however, is alive. It is not a story or a tale, but a living organism comprising of ancient traditions being adapted to the times. It cannot be harnessed, only experienced. This is why folklore is so endearing.

raven grimassi
August 27th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Sicily is an important region when we look at topics of survivalism related to goddess worship and to Witchcraft. One example is the reference noted in another forum post:

“A Sicilian peasant ritual of the middle ages that Salvatore Salomone-Marion found still alive in the nineteenth century bonded women’s nurturance and life milk with the earth and the goddess. The village Strega (witch), joined by other women, would lie face down and place bare breasts on the earth. During the ritual, the witch and the women hold Strega beads. Different from Christian rosary beads, Strega beads that I have seen are a circle of tigereyes” – page 36, Black Madonnas

In this we find another reference to Witches in 19th century Italy, and in connection with a goddess. Since this is happening at the same time that Leland is writing about Witchcraft and Diana in mainland Italian Witchcraft this is very noteworty.

As I have written of many times, several 19th century folklorists in Italy independently performed field studies in different regions of Italy. These studies took place among native Italians who self-labled as Witches. Despite this taking place in different regions of Italy the field studies revealed the very same practices and beliefs. It now appears that Sicily can be added to the picture of Italian Witchcraft in the 19th century.

Some people choose to ignore this data, but the evidence only keeps piling higher.

*Rasenna*
August 27th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Looking at foundational elements is supportive of survival themes. Scholar Daniel Ogden touches on a goddess connection to witchcraft of considerable antiquity. Here's what he has to say in his book titled Nights Black Agents:

"Circe herself seems to exhibit particular affinities with a goddess type popular in the narratives and the imagery alike of Greece and the Near East, that is, the portia theron, 'Mistress of Animals.' In iconography a Mistress of Animal's goddess is shown as a standing figure flanked on either side by wild animals that rear up and fawn upon her, and so express her mastery over them. Archaic images of Artemis often depict her in this way'." - page 13

Ogden goes on to discuss goddesses of this nature from various regions, and concludes:

The Homeric Circe corresponds with this type of goddess-type in three ways. First her house is surrounded by fawning wild animals...secondly she transforms men into animals. Thirdly, there is a threat that she may in some way cripple or blight a lover by sleeping with him..." - page 14

Here he writes:

"...we have in any case argued that the representation of Circe is subject to many pressures and to forces of many traditions, and that one of the traditions that impacts upon her representation is that of the mistress-of-animals type goddess. We might be tempted to think that Circe is the process of mutating out of an old original mistress-of-animals type goddess into a more modern, seventh century witch. But actually we have no reason whatsoever to think her identity as a witch is any more recent than any other aspect of her characterization.” – page 26

Later in the book, Ogden writes about the tradition of Circe and Medea in ancient writings:

“It is impossible to know anything for sure about witchcraft and its representation in the age before the Homeric poems (whatever that might be), given that they are Greece’s earliest works of literature. But the witchcraft practiced by Circe and Medea gives every sign of being rooted in folklore and folktale.” - page 35

Such lore always gets mixed into fictional tales because it lends an air of credibility and the comfort of recognition. Ogden writes:

“These texts, whether ostensibly fictive or historical, incorporate and rehearse a great many traditional tales and even international folktales. Such tales did not just report or manipulate beliefs about ancient magic, they were fundamentally constitutive of them. Put simply, the reason the ancients knew magic worked was less because they objectively observed it in operation, and more because they were used to hearing such good tales of witches and sorcerers putting it into practice.” – page 2

I think this view also demonstrates there was a difference between the type of magic the common person knew, and the type of magic practiced by the adept.

Son of Goddess
August 27th, 2008, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=*Rasenna*;3670158]Here's what he has to say in his book titled Nights Black Agents:

"Circe herself seems to exhibit particular affinities with a goddess type popular in the narratives and the imagery alike of Greece and the Near East, that is, the portia theron, 'Mistress of Animals.'" - page 13

Not sure if this is your typing mistake, or that of the author, but the correct term is "Potnia Theron". :)

Also, it is interesting to note that Kirke (the Greek spelling) means, if I am remembering correctly, 'death-bird' which was identified as the falcon.

*Rasenna*
August 28th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Not sure if this is your typing mistake, or that of the author, but the correct term is "Potnia Theron". :)


My bad. _taparoo_

Son of Goddess
August 29th, 2008, 12:35 AM
My bad. _taparoo_

Its all good! :thumbsup:

Rilasciato
August 29th, 2008, 03:03 AM
During the ritual, the witch and the women hold Strega beads. Different from Christian rosary beads, Strega beads that I have seen are a circle of tigereyes” – page 36, Black Madonnas
I've got a set of these that were my grandmother's. They are a beautiful reminder of a time passed that engendered such a close connection with the earth. Personally, I do not use them in any ritual, but they remain a sentimental part of my life


It now appears that Sicily can be added to the picture of Italian Witchcraft in the 19th century. Some people choose to ignore this data, but the evidence only keeps piling higher.
It more than "appears", my brother. As you know, the photograph I possess CLEARLY PROVES that Sicilian Witchcraft dates back to 19th century, and governing from names and dates in my grimoire, to the 18th.

People can ignore data all they want, but when the blinders are removed, the facts are stated, and, as in my family's case, there is photographic evidence, such willful ignorance can obviously be recognized for what it is.

La Vecchia Religione is no farce, no modern construct and is alive and well, albeit in small numbers, within the families of Italy and Sicily.

raven grimassi
August 29th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I've got a set of these that were my grandmother's. They are a beautiful reminder of a time passed that engendered such a close connection with the earth. Personally, I do not use them in any ritual, but they remain a sentimental part of my life

Awesome. I have some witch heirlooms myself that were passed down, and I know the feeling too. There are photos of some of these items in my book Hereditary Witchcraft.


It more than "appears", my brother. As you know, the photograph I possess CLEARLY PROVES that Sicilian Witchcraft dates back to 19th century, and governing from names and dates in my grimoire, to the 18th.

There is no question of the antiquity of the Craft in Sicily. I was referrring to the reference in the quoted text that depicted an observed ritual and strega woman. Public first hand encounters with Witches exposing the Craft during the 19th century in Italy were rare. The quote was the only reference I have found to date that mentions an outsider having such an encounter in Sicily. That is what I meant by adding Sicily to the picture of Witchcraft in the 19th century.

There are, I am sure, other references that I have yet to find, and I have no doubt that there are many in Italian sources that I have no current access to. Are you familiar with the work of Gustav Henningsen? He wrote about "The Ladies from the Outside" in Sicily (known as the donna di fuora). This was in relationship to a fariy cult. However, folklorist Giuseppe Pitre stated that the donna di fuora is "something of a fairy and something of a witch although one cannot really distinguish which is which." This quote, and the topic of the Sicilian sect can be found in the book Early Modern European Witchcraft, edited by Bengt Ankarloo and Gustav Henningsen.

On a side note, Henningsen states that Sicily presumably "retained a particularly archaic form of witch-belief, almost identical with the 'witch-cult' that Margaret Murray attempted to demonstrate on the evidence of north and mid-European material."


People can ignore data all they want, but when the blinders are removed, the facts are stated, and, as in my family's case, there is photographic evidence, such willful ignorance can obviously be recognized for what it is.

No argument here, my friend. :)



La Vecchia Religione is no farce, no modern construct and is alive and well, albeit in small numbers, within the families of Italy and Sicily.

Yes, indeed. There is a certain irony in all of this. During the 19th century we have accounts from folklorists who interviewed people that self-labeled as Witches (and in all cases, from different regions, these people stated they were Witches by heredity). The accounts are dimissed by most scholars. This condition still prevails between contemporary hereditary Witches and scholars. What the scholars rely upon instead for their understanding of Italian Witchcraft is the Catholic peasant's account of what he or she believes is Witchcraft. Scholars believe the peasant is objective and therefore credible, while the Witch's account is subjective and therefore unreliable.

Using this academic philosophy we can conclude that during the American Civil War that the representation of Black people by slave owners is a reliable objective understanding of Black people, while the understanding of being Black by the Blacks themselves is subjective and therefore unreliable. :wtf: This is the kind of nonsense that really gets to me, and yet it is considered to be the prevailing "wisdom" of the academic community.