help....

[SerenityMoon]

help. please.
one of my very dearest friends has decided to take his own life june 1 of next year. this scares me, makes me cry, terrifies me....is there nothing i can do? he seems set on it. the worst part is that he lives in North Dakota and i live in Texas, so i can't physically stop him...
he feels nothing purposeful has or will happen in his life, so he chooses to take it away.
he's only 17, and he won't give life a chance.
what can i do?

[Chibi-Fallon]

*shrug* Call the police. You can't legally kill yourself. Call a doctor, a helpline, there are many many things. But getting someone who actually knows what they're talking about and can prove it might be a good idea (it's not that I don't love all of you and I'm sure you'd give great advice and whatnot but that's still probably the best way to go).
They'll probably just get him some help, which is what he probably needs anyway. And June is far away. To me it sounds like teenaged angst talking, I'm not saying he won't do it, but angst bugs the crap outta me, that and people with depression.
One of the reasons I wouldn never be able to kill myself (not that I want to) is that I know it'd only because I was feeling angsty that day.
Talk to him about the starving children who are dying everyday in India, survivors of war and Jewish and Japanese of WWII. Makes suburbia seem not so bad even if you're unpopular.

[SerenityMoon]

you can't stereotype every person who wants to kill him/herself as some depressed teen living in suburbia.....
he has had therapy, and it didn't work. it's not that he's angstly depressed...it's very hard for me to explain.
talking to him about the starving children in India would barely faze him.

[WtchyChick13]

I don't know what to say. I lost a close friend to suicide a few years ago and this topic is very close to my heart.

PLEASE get this person some help! Even if they threaten to take their friendship away. Rather your friend be saved.

If I may ask one question, why June 1st? I'm sorry to be curious but it almost sounds like they are purposely giving you some warning so that they CAN be saved. That is usually a sign that they've changed their mind but need help in getting more help.

Is there a suicide hotline in your area? Maybe if you call, you can get some more advice on how to help.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and if I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. If you'd like to talk, you can PM me, ok?

[)O( ~ Khara~ )O(]

In Florida there is a law called "The Baker Act" which says anyone who is a harm to themselves can be admitted into a lockdown therapy unit until cleared by a psychiatrist.

If this friend of yours is under 18 I would tell his parents. If not then I would contact local law enforcement.

Being as his official is not until summer of next year, my first question would be what makes that date so important? Does it have meaning or did he just pick it out of the blue?

Does your friend do drugs? If so can they be affecting his judgement? If not does he have a chemical or mental imbalance that you are aware of?

Do you think this is for attention? Has he told anyone else?

I personally would call local authorities or fly there myself. You have to do what your conscience tells you.

If you were hoping for a spell, you will not get one from anyone here. Magick done for another can backfire and cause worse results than planned.

Good Luck to you and your friend!

[MammaStar]

I'm with Wtchy. Call your local hotline, explain to them the situation and they'll advise you what to do.

I think, him "setting a date" is a plea to you and to anyone that he needs help. It's his way of asking. The more one talks about killing themselves, the more they are crying out for help.

It's the quiet ones, you have to watch out for.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Most but not all people with a true intent to suicide will not announce it. Most of the ones who do want to be stopped they are often looking for answers to questions that they may not even be able to put into words. I know that the few times in my life I have been suicidal I had everything plotted out and I told no one till I had decided not to do it. The thing that terrified my friends is that had I don't what I had planned I would have succeeded very easily. I would take him seriously but push toward some professional help mark the day down on your calendar maybe have him locked up for observation when it is close to it. He could be hoping you will have good reasons why he shouldn't do it and if you don't he could try. Not to mention the fact that many people who use attempted suicide as a plea for help often fatally make mistakes like waiting just a little too long to call for help.

[SerenityMoon]

thank you all.
i asked him why it was june 1. he said he wanted to live out a full year, and that it seemed like a good, balanced date. he's very matter of fact about it, but he's always been matter of fact about everything, so that doesn't surprise me.
i wouldn't thnk it's for attention. he's just...not like that.
and as for chemical or mental imbalances, i have no idea. he's 16, and i don't know his phone number. *sighs*
he's told one other person than me. he's only telling people really close to him. he told me he's doing that so that it will be "less painful" when he does it....it's not working -__-;
no, he does no drugs, never has. he's in fact, very intelligent and...i just don't get it.
i'd love to get help but...i'm so confused and lost....

[MistOfTheSea86]

I know, I have been in both situations. Me, personally, have experienced this planned suicide to more of a planned life really. I don't think he is set on killing himself, I think he may want insentive to do something with his life, no matter full it may seem. People do the strangest things to find meaning in themselves, and maybe this is his way. I don't think you should call the authorities yet, I think you should just talk to him and figure out every detail and I mean EVERY detail, chances are he needs someone to care as much as you do to show him that his life does have meaning. Good luck in this, just remember no matter how hard it may seem, it is better to keep yours and his chin up rather in sharing his misery. In the end, it has a much better chance of having a great conclusion... Rather then a terrible one.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Also remember that even if he does do this it will not be your fault. You are doing everything you can to help him not do this if you keep it up getting all the information and what not and maybe passing it to people that can physically help him then perhaps you will be able to feel a bit better.

[SerenityMoon]

yeah...it's putting me through hell. i cried myself to sleep the night he told me. that may sound melodramatic, but he's very dear to me..
i'm going to do what i can to be positive around him, to not mention it too much, and still find out where i can find help in my area. i may also try to get his phone number from him, tell him that i want it to call HIM, and then maybe call his parents.
thank you all

[Yvonne Belisle]

Sadly other than what you have planned there isn't much more you can do. I send you hugs I figure you must me frazzled upset a little scared and feeling very helpless about now I know I would be. :(

[Sora]

I hope he can find the help he needs. You're a good friend to stick with him.

[Flar's Freyja]

What they all said - and especially, inform his parents. Thank Goddess he has a friend like you who cares.

Edited to add:

Also - if you don't get a response from them, you can call Social Services or Child Protective Services in your area. Failing to get treatment for him constitutes neglect. In the stuck Frustration Support thread in Pagan Family, there is a list of all of the offices for each state and whichever ones I could find for outside of the USA and Canada.

[cherrywind]

Chibi, personally I find it offensive that you shrug it off as teenaged angst. I've lost two friends to suicide and it was not simply teenaged angst, but they were both under 17. A suicide threat can never be taken lightly or just shrugged off.

SerenityMoon, call a hotline yourself as others suggested, but also try to get him to call a helpline. Talk him through it. If he's set a date, ask him what he wants changed by that time. Try to get a strategy to change his life around before that. Talking to his parents is a good idea as well, but be prepared for him to feel angry and betrayed if you do. In time, he will realize that you did was out of care for him and will come to appreciate it.

You can also make him sign a contract. I know there's a distance, but it's more psychological than physical anyhow. Write up a letter, and put a date on it. In this case, write something like,

"I, (name) hereby promise to not take my own life before the date of June 1, 2003."

Send it to him, make him sign it and send it back to you. I know somebody who did do this and they said it was very effective. Also, writing a list of things that are beneficial and worth living for on the contract might be a good idea as well. Emphasize and make him realize this is a promise to you and himself and a real contract. Like I said, completely psychological.

Just a few ideas. I know there are sites out there to help those trying to deal with a suicidal friend or family member as well, I'm sure those have a ton of other ideas.

[Arzhela]

I agree with what everyone else has said: notify his parents, get professional help.
Do you know WHY he feels that there's nothing to live for in his life? Once a specific problem has been identified, it should be either to talk to him about. If there really isn't any specific problem (or even if there is) medication would probably be a good thing to look into. Some people just have chemical imbalances in their body and so they need medication to counteract this and keep them from depression. You say he's had therapy, but that's not the same as going to a doctor who can tell if this is something where medecine might be helpful.

[SerenityMoon]

cherrywind: i agree. it offended me as well, chibi. that contract is an interesting idea....
i'm trying to understand his motives and reasons, and he says he can't explain it. ..something about just...having no purpose. i don't know...
my sweety derek (who studies psychology) says one of the main reasons people commit suicide is that they feel left out of "the system"...so that may be it.

[Chibi-Fallon]

Originally posted by cherrywind
Chibi, personally I find it offensive that you shrug it off as teenaged angst. I've lost two friends to suicide and it was not simply teenaged angst, but they were both under 17. A suicide threat can never be taken lightly or just shrugged off.


Well ain't it just funny how I've had people who annoy the crap outta me tell me they were gonna kill themsevles (gave a date and everything) and then didn't do it. And I've known people who have killed themselves too. I still feel the same way, but thanks for assuming. Makes me feel nice. ;)
My idea is if you don't tell anyone then you're gonna do it. If you do (and give yourself that much time) you want someone to stop you. You want someone to come make your life a Disney movie and stop you at the last second saying how they can't live without you and love you and all that good stuff. Then you turn your life around, and everything works out great.
But anyway, I'm not good with people and the whole death thing. I take it to lightly for most people. Death and me are drinking buddies.
And it's nice that you're offended, thumbs up on that one. Honestly I'm a person on the internet, people seem to forget that. I don't matter all that much, at least in your world I shouldn't.

[SerenityMoon]

not everyone is the same. if you knew this guy like i do, he's the last person that would want a disney escape. the LAST person.

[SerenityMoon]

ok i'm talking to him now, and he's given me a few reasons:
"life holds nothing for me but pain. the few joys I have, the few people that I think I care about, just aren't enough to deal with all the ennui. I've been degrading, slowly and steadily. I don't want to let that find its conclusion. And I don't fear death... so I simply see it as another option
the pain of once taking pride in having a few talents, and losing them
the pain of loss, of so many things, and strangely not even caring anymore"
i'm beginning to wonder if i should just let him do it....*sighs*

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by SerenityMoon
not everyone is the same. if you knew this guy like i do, he's the last person that would want a disney escape. the LAST person.

Exactly. For example, many women who have been raped end up being accused of lying because their reaction to their trauma isn't the expected social norm.....

By telling someone, he is asking for help, which could mean that he is seriously considering suicide but seriously doesn't want to go that far. It by no means indicates that he won't do it. I'd be willing to guess that there are as many people who committed suicide with no warning as there are people who may have talked about it first. There are also some who do this as a cry for attention with no intention of actually dying but end up killing themselves accidentally.

Threats of suicide should never be taken lightly, ever. None of us have no way of really knowing what's going on inside another person. Even in my professional training as a social worker, we are cautioned never to say "I understand" to a client - because we can't possibly understand exactly what any person is going through ~ we are all individuals and react to things differently.

Hopefully, your friend needs support, professional therapy and/or medication and is willing to accept treatment. Sometimes all of these things are offered and followed through with and the individual still commits the act. By being there for him and taking appropriate action, you are at least showing him that his life is of value.

[SerenityMoon]

thank you freyja, i completely agree (and your analogy of rape was a very accurate one)
i have not told him that i understand, becuase of precisely what you said: i DON'T understand. i don't understand what's going on in his hand, i cannot feel what he feels, and i'm not him. therefore, i refuse to say i understand when i don't.
i haven't stopped being there for him...i've been talking, trying to act like we were before, in hopes that i can give him a positive outlook on life....i hope i'm doing this right.

[flar7]

Moderator Mode

Lets keep it calm here. Lots of useful information has been
offered. Chibi stated some good ideas and an opinion. She
did not say that it was thought of lightly. Work on the problem
not each other.:)

End Moderator Mode

[SerenityMoon]

my apologies. i'm just very shaken up, and i hate assumptions...

[flar7]

no apologies are necessary, was just a FRIENDLY reminder to
everyone to keep calm. Its about your request for help, no need
to hurt each other's feelings if that can be avoided.:)

[cherrywind]

Chibi - Honestly, I didn't assume anything about you, I simply stated what you said I found offensive. If that is the way you deal with death, that's understandable, certain people deal in certain ways. I realize you're a person on the internet, and believe me, it doesn't matter that much in my world. I just thought I would state my opinion, and I did, end of story. There wasn't any need to get sarcastic. If you still feel the need to discuss this further, you can PM me so we don't carry it on here.

Alright, I'm done with that.

Now, SerenityMoon, I'm glad he's talking to you about it, that does indeed imply he wants help. Try to state to him that every person has to deal with loss and disappointments, it's a fact of life. Killing yourself over it isn't the answer though. Brainstorm some ideas as to why his life is good, and stress to him that he'll be missed, that there ARE people that care about him. In my experience, a lot of people contemplating suicide honestly don't think there are those who care about them. Bring up the idea of the contract too, that right there shows that somebody cares about him.

It's a tough situation, talk to him about all his options, helplines, counselors, etc. And really stress there are those who care.

[StarryDancer]

SerenityMoon, with respect -- I don't think you know him as well as you think you do. He's states away, and you don't have his phone number? Are we talking an internet relationship here? In which case, you may not really know if he is a "he", or his real age, much less his real name or state of mind.

But assuming that he IS who you think he is, and that this is a sudden change in his behavior, well...he's about the right age to be developing a major mental illness. He is, at the very least, seriously depressed and in need of medication. Announcing this intention at age 16 is without doubt a question of "How far will you go to save me?" It's a nasty game that some people play. I'd recommend that you follow all the advice previously given -- local hotlines for advice, check out Freyja's sources for help, contact someone who is local for him, especially a parent -- and then drop him from your list of friends. Trust me, your life will be much happier and healthier.

[SerenityMoon]

starrydancer: i really don't believe that knowing someone's phone number constitutes a strong friendship. all my life i never really had use for the phone except to call my mother when i moved out or professionally. I never know half of my friends' phone numbers. yes, this is an internet friendship, and i have known him for over three years online. i know him very well, and he's sent me voice messages plenty of times, so i know he's an adolescent boy. we've written letters as well. and i appreciate your life, but i could never drop him from my list of friends..
cherrywind: thank you very much ^_^

[cherrywind]

No problem :).

[PrincessHLHofMW]

*sigh* suicide very touchy subject for me....and its different with everyone...im happy you are trying to hel in in anyway you can...if you ever need to vent my aim is in my profile or just PM me ((((((((SerenityMoon)))))))))

[Phoenix Blue]

Do people who overtly threaten suicide actually commit it? Or are the people who commit suicide the folks who leave warning signs in their wake, but no singular red flag?

Threatening suicide was a game to my ex. I tend to be a bit skeptical, therefore, when it comes to someone saying they're going to do it - as I'll tend to think they're doing it as a ploy for attention.

SerenityMoon's friend's plea is unique in one aspect, though: I don't think I've seen anyone put a deadline on their suicide threat before. That would bear a lot more consideration, and much more serious treatment, in my (non-professional) opinion.

[Flar's Freyja]

Deadlines are not at all uncommon. There are many who specifically choose a significant date such as a birthday or anniversary to add impact to the act, or because something about that date has caused them pain.

Skepticism is understandable. Research actually confirms that many females who threaten suicide are unlikely to actually do it and those who do often don't mean to actually die. But we just never know, and we need to pay attention. But once action has been taken, we need to move on and let go of the outcome.

[SerenityMoon]

yes, i never really heard of anyone making a specific date either, but i still will not take it lightly. i asked him why June 1, and he said he wanted to complete the year and it seemed like a good point. he's very cryptic *sighs*

[Flar's Freyja]

When I was a Child Protective Services worker and kids in foster care threatened suicide, we took their little hinies immediately to a treatment facility due to liability issues and policy. They usually ended up staying for two weeks to a month.

It usually cured them of making threats for attention.

[SerenityMoon]

while i agree that that's a very good plan to cure threats of attention, i know this isn't just a threat of attention. i wish it were. it seems it'd be easier to deal with then.
i've pretty much come to the conclusion that i can call all the hotlines i want, and call his parents all i want, but if he's THAT set on taking his own llife, in the the long run all i can do is be there for him and hope he doesn't do it. people who are completely dead (no pun intended) set on taking their life or anything else for that matter will find a way to do it.

[Yvonne Belisle]

That is true but sometimes they just need to know someone cares it is impossible to know so all you can do is be there for them and hope you don't have to say goodbye.