Child rapist and his family beat up wary neighbor

[Laisrean]

Link (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--sexoffender-beati1021oct21,0,3693148.story)


ROCHESTER, N.Y. - A convicted sex offender and his four siblings have been charged with beating up a neighbor in a small-town apartment complex for posting fliers warning about his criminal past.

William Meacham, 30, his younger siblings Brandon, Justin, Stephanie and Angela, and family friend Marvin Snyder, attacked Adrian Porter in the village of Seneca Falls last month, leaving him severely injured with brain trauma, a broken nose and facial fractures, authorities said.

Porter, 35, was left unconscious in the complex's parking lot, spent weeks in a Rochester hospital and was recently transferred to a rehabilitation center.

"He's moving around" but he's suffering memory lapses and his ability to communicate is limited, Seneca Falls police Chief Frederick Capozzi said Tuesday.

This never would have happened if he had been executed, as all convicted child rapists should be. But no, he was allowed to go free and when some concerned neighbor tried to warn the public, this is what happened... but it could have been averted if we were tougher on this scum.

[Caitlin.ann]

Such senseless violence. I can't wait to see the charges that get pressed..they all deserve a good amount of jail time.

[Invidosa]

Oh spirits!! that poor man. vile, absolutely vile!!

[Laisrean]

Such senseless violence. I can't wait to see the charges that get pressed..they all deserve a good amount of jail time.

Jail is where people like this belong, permanently. The idea of letting them live amongst society "with restrictions" is a ridiculous failure, and this story proves it.

[Invidosa]

Such senseless violence. I can't wait to see the charges that get pressed..they all deserve a good amount of jail time.

agreed, :foh: I mean, the sex offender registry exists for a reason, if this guy (and his family)do not like the consequences of his actions. . . well he should have thought about that before he molested a kid!

[watersprite]

What they DESERVE is the worst luck and the worst life on Earth! Since they are apparently non human, I am harming none when I cast this with their names on it!

[Infinite Grey]

Jail is where people like this belong, permanently. The idea of letting them live amongst society "with restrictions" is a ridiculous failure, and this story proves it.

Your idea of proof is wanting.

The system is broken as it is - that does not mean that other programs -- other than resorting to barbarism -- will also fail.

[Laisrean]

Your idea of proof is wanting.

The system is broken as it is - that does not mean that other programs -- other than resorting to barbarism -- will also fail.

Read the article, then tell me who was the party who resorted to Barbarism....

In civilized society we do not mete out punishment unless duly convicted. This man was duly convicted, but was not punished in any way that was meaningful (obviously, because he was free to harm again). Did he or his family give his victim a trial before assaulting him? No. There's the barbarous ones in this. Unless we start punishing people without conviction, then we're much better than this sort of scum, even if our punishment is death.

[Infinite Grey]

Read the article, then tell me who was the party who resorted to Barbarism....

I didn't say they didn't. :smileroll


In civilized society we do not mete out punishment unless duly convicted. This man was duly convicted, but was not punished in any way that was meaningful (obviously, because he was free to harm again). Did he or his family give his victim a trial before assaulting him? No. There's the barbarous ones in this. Unless we start punishing people without conviction, then we're much better than this sort of scum, even if our punishment is death.

Ummm how about actually rehabilitating them instead of holding them for bit? Again, you're quick to advocate state endorsed murder over trying to correct the problem... how are you better them conceptually? Oh yeah I know, the chances are you haven't abused children, or beaten someone brutally - that's not what I'm saying... conceptually, barbarism is barbarism, whether is sanctioned or not.

[Laisrean]

I didn't say they didn't. :smileroll



Ummm how about actually rehabilitating them instead of holding them for bit? Again, you're quick to advocate state endorsed murder over trying to correct the problem... how are you better them conceptually? Oh yeah I know, the chances are you haven't abused children, or beaten someone brutally - that's not what I'm saying... conceptually, barbarism is barbarism, whether is sanctioned or not.

In the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. You can't execute, imprison, or even fine someone until they were convicted. The conviction thing is the key that separates civilization from barbarism. For a crime as heinous as the ones this man has committed, I don't see execution as excessive, especially when you consider he's a repeat offender. Letting him be "rehabilitated" by letting him live a normal life in an apartment among society as he's been hasn't stopped him from being a criminal.

What is Barbarous on the part of the state, was that they allowed him to live among innocent civilians and do this (and God knows what else he could have done, or will do). Letting him out of prison is just as barbarous as allowing a wolf to enter among a herd of sheep... The thing is, you show pity/mercy on the wolf, and you're actually being barbarous to the innocent who end up becoming victims.

[Infinite Grey]

In the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. You can't execute, imprison, or even fine someone until they were convicted. The conviction thing is the key that separates civilization from barbarism. For a crime as heinous as the ones this man has committed, I don't see execution as excessive, especially when you consider he's a repeat offender. Letting him be "rehabilitated" by letting him live a normal life in an apartment among society as he's been hasn't stopped him from being a criminal.

What is Barbarous on the part of the state, was that they allowed him to live among innocent civilians and do this (and God knows what else he could have done, or will do). Letting him out of prison is just as barbarous as allowing a wolf to enter among a herd of sheep... The thing is, you show pity/mercy on the wolf, and you're actually being barbarous to the innocent who end up becoming victims.

I wasn't referring to the Judicial system of innocent until proven guilty... I can not fathom why you brought it up.

As to the punishment... well I can't see an instance where execution is acceptable. I can see where it would offer a hallow consolation of revenge... where it could be used as a lazy way of separating a person from society... but if that is the case, a simple restarting of the brain (essentially wiping the memory, actually an easy thing to do) would be as effective. Would you accept that as an alternative to execution? I doubt it.

Again you second paragraph illustrates that you are unwilling or unable to see my point. I argue that the methods of rehabilitation as they stand are inadequate to non-existent - I argue for more research and actual attempts to correct the situations over simply "flipping the switch".

[watersprite]

The US court system and it's Lawyers AND Judges is as corrupt as it can be. It is broken, just as the government is broken. It starts at the top and roles downhill.
Conviction, with all its' checks and balances, forensic evidence and ethics as the law proscribes should stand. Plea bargaining is evil. Letting a child molester go when they turn over a bigger fish is totally ethic free.

[watersprite]

I wasn't referring to the Judicial system of innocent until proven guilty... I can not fathom why you brought it up.

As to the punishment... well I can't see an instance where execution is acceptable. I can see where it would offer a hallow consolation of revenge... where it could be used as a lazy way of separating a person from society... but if that is the case, a simple restarting of the brain (essentially wiping the memory, actually an easy thing to do) would be as effective. Would you accept that as an alternative to execution? I doubt it.

Again you second paragraph illustrates that you are unwilling or unable to see my point. I argue that the methods of rehabilitation as they stand are inadequate to non-existent - I argue for more research and actual attempts to correct the situations over simply "flipping the switch".
Memory wipe? Restarting the brain? What decade are you living in, and is THAT ethical?

[Infinite Grey]

Memory wipe? Restarting the brain? What decade are you living in, and is THAT ethical?

Any less ethical than excution? :smileroll

It's actually quite simple; akin to Electroconvulsive therapy.

It's interesting that people find the idea of having your memory destroyed is worse than execution.

[Laisrean]

Any less ethical than excution? :smileroll

It's actually quite simple; akin to Electroconvulsive therapy.

It's interesting that people find the idea of having your memory destroyed is worse than execution.

Wiping a person's memory wouldn't correct any defects in their personality, which could lead them to repeating the same behavior again in the future. Some who kill do so because they have poor impule control, due to atrophied parts of the brain that typically inhibit such actions... memory wipes wouldn't correct this, and AFAIK there's no way you possibly could with present technology.

But even assuming you could alter a person's brain to make them "normal", that's essentially the same as killing the person they used to be... so why not do it the old fashioned and easy way?

[watersprite]

Any less ethical than excution? :smileroll

It's actually quite simple; akin to Electroconvulsive therapy.

It's interesting that people find the idea of having your memory destroyed is worse than execution.
I do not advocate execution. Just separation. Electro-convulsive therapy does not work. But keep researching and maybe you can come up with something that DOES.

[Laisrean]

It's interesting that people find the idea of having your memory destroyed is worse than execution.

I see it as worse. The reason, is because tinkering with someone's memory is a form of tyranny over their mind. When you execute someone, you aren't controlling or tampering with them (at least not in any prolonged manner), and once they're dead they are completely free of all earthly control.

I'd choose death over having my mind controlled, personally.

[Rowan MoonDragon]

I'm not so sure that rehabilitation is the answer for sex ofenders. I could be wrong, but I thought I read that the statistics showed that rehab for most sex offenders failed. Quite frankly, I'd rather not take the chance. I think rehab can be a wonderful thing, but I'm just not sure that its the way to go for sex offenders.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Solitary...leg irons , and handcuffs...

Permanent headphones , with a continual loop
of car alarms , elevator muzak , and the Halleluiah
Chorus , for five years...

Released on Komodo Island , with a patrol ship ,
insuring no escape...

That is all...:bigredgri

[WokeUpDead]

I do not advocate execution. Just separation. Electro-convulsive therapy does not work. But keep researching and maybe you can come up with something that DOES.It might not be electroshock but treatment does work and it's cheaper than jail.

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_102108WAB_sex_offender_program_SW.1368447e0.html


"We have about a five percent recidivism rate for folks who've been treated and 10 to 30 percent for folks who have not," said Program director Sally Neiland.

The program costs about $10,000 a year per offender. But studies show that's significantly less than what it costs to prosecute someone if they re-offend.

[orangeconey]

Solitary...leg irons , and handcuffs...

Permanent headphones , with a continual loop
of car alarms , elevator muzak , and the Halleluiah
Chorus , for five years...

Released on Komodo Island , with a patrol ship ,
insuring no escape...

That is all...:bigredgri
:thumbsup:
Sex offenders don't get my pity. Sorry.

[Faol-chù]

I'm not so sure that rehabilitation is the answer for sex ofenders. I could be wrong, but I thought I read that the statistics showed that rehab for most sex offenders failed. Quite frankly, I'd rather not take the chance. I think rehab can be a wonderful thing, but I'm just not sure that its the way to go for sex offenders.


In any situation where rehabilitation is tried, the individual has to actually WANT to be rehabilitated.

These people do not want to be "rehabilitated"...they want to get out of the spot they are in, and will say (or do) whatever it takes to make someone happy long enough to do so.

That's why it does not work...

I, quite frankly, as a taxpayer, am tired of paying for upkeep for people who will not check themselves and have no desire to live amicably in society.

And might I add, I'd personally rather be dead than live my life imprisoned....So whoever was going to do so can spare me the "inhumane" spiel.

[TygerTyger]

In the U.S., you're innocent until proven guilty. You can't execute, imprison, or even fine someone until they were convicted. The conviction thing is the key that separates civilization from barbarism.

Is the existence of Guantanamo Bay Detention Centre proof of barbarism then?

Prison does not work except as a temporary holding centre for those punished by the law.

I worked in rehabilitation in the prison service and the awareness that money needs to be spent was only just beginning to be realised then. They are still releasing prisoners back into the community who have not been prepared for all that should entail.

[Laisrean]

Is the existence of Guantanamo Bay Detention Centre proof of barbarism then?

In that case, I'd say it is. The inmates there are being held without charge, or access to legal counsel. There's also torture and other bad stuff being carried on there... So yes, Guatnamo probably does count as Babarism. But that's not where sex offenders go, nor have anything to do with the topic at hand.

[TygerTyger]

In that case, I'd say it is. The inmates there are being held without charge, or access to legal counsel. There's also torture and other bad stuff being carried on there... So yes, Guatnamo probably does count as Babarism. But that's not where sex offenders go, nor have anything to do with the topic at hand.

I replied to your previous post:


Read the article, then tell me who was the party who resorted to Barbarism....

In civilized society we do not mete out punishment unless duly convicted. This man was duly convicted, but was not punished in any way that was meaningful (obviously, because he was free to harm again). Did he or his family give his victim a trial before assaulting him? No. There's the barbarous ones in this. Unless we start punishing people without conviction, then we're much better than this sort of scum, even if our punishment is death.

On rehabilition, however:


In any situation where rehabilitation is tried, the individual has to actually WANT to be rehabilitated.

These people do not want to be "rehabilitated"...they want to get out of the spot they are in, and will say (or do) whatever it takes to make someone happy long enough to do so.

That's why it does not work...


My own professional experience leads me to agree to that, many of the sex offender courses run at the prison where I worked seemed to have an 'attendance only' requirement. It was recorded on the offender's record and the box duly ticked, but no actual test to see if they had either learnt anything or amended their behaviour was ever carried out following the course completion.

[Kailen]

No need to resort to the death sentence, just remove their knees and elbows. And the one who actually did the child molesting, remove his genitals too.

However, Watersprite, "What they DESERVE is the worst luck and the worst life on Earth! Since they are apparently non human, I am harming none when I cast this with their names on it!"

Harming none does not just mean humans. It means harming none, nothing, not a single part of existence. I think a request for balance would be safer, and more appropriate. All the harm they've caused, to him, through their actions towards him, through their actions towards others, to be reflected in balance upon their selves.

Fair, is it not?

[Faol-chù]

No need to resort to the death sentence, just remove their knees and elbows. And the one who actually did the child molesting, remove his genitals too.



Well, the problem with that is this...We (as a tax-paying citizens)still have to pay for his (or her) regular upkeep. Then we have to pay for all the surgery involved.
Once Knees and elbows are removed, then that person cannot even care for themselves and we have to pay for that, too...

Unless, that is, you think throwing them somewhere in the woods afterwards would be "humane"(?)
Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to it.(!)

[Kailen]

Nah, just give them to their family to look after (though I think throwing them into the woods is a good idea). They definitely shouldn't be looked after by the government, they lost rights to that when they harmed another citizen to such an extent. If that means they starve, well...that's justice, no?

Actually, my fathers idea of justice was to remove the thumbs, big toes and little toes. Leaves them perfectly capable of looking after themselves (with some difficulty) but incapable of actually harming someone due to the fact they can't grip anything properly and they've lost the ability to run/balance properly by having the toes removed.

[WokeUpDead]

In any situation where rehabilitation is tried, the individual has to actually WANT to be rehabilitated.

These people do not want to be "rehabilitated"...they want to get out of the spot they are in, and will say (or do) whatever it takes to make someone happy long enough to do so.

That's why it does not work...

I, quite frankly, as a taxpayer, am tired of paying for upkeep for people who will not check themselves and have no desire to live amicably in society.

And might I add, I'd personally rather be dead than live my life imprisoned....So whoever was going to do so can spare me the "inhumane" spiel.It's good to know you can speak for everyone. That saves a lot of trouble. Yes there will be some who have no interest or ability to get better but there will also be some who want to get help and live an honest life after their sentence is up. One way or another you're going to pay for them whether it's rehab or prison lockup. It turns out that the rehab ends up costing about half as much in the long run which was somewhere in that link I posted. And last but not least, being able to deal with them without automatically going into attack mode is what makes us better than them. So salvage what you can and let the hopeless cases rot in a cell.

[Faol-chù]

So salvage what you can and let the hopeless cases rot in a cell.

Well, if they really want to be rehabilitated, I'd say they need to do something extraordinary to prove it...like submit to castration. (If it's a man...not sure how do deal with it if it's a woman.)

There really comes a point, in my opinion, where someone is just not worth salvaging.
Life's all about choices and theirs involved obsessively taking away someone else's.
It's not a matter of going into 'attack' mode...
It's a matter of leaving no room for anyone else to be victimized by that individual --ever again.

[Lunacie]

It's my understanding that castration does nothing to help the person. Those impulses do not come from the sexual organ itself, and there are plenty of substitutes to be used by men who have trouble getting or maintaining an erection.

[Faol-chù]

It's my understanding that castration does nothing to help the person. Those impulses do not come from the sexual organ itself, and there are plenty of substitutes to be used by men who have trouble getting or maintaining an erection.

Yes...but at least they'd be giving up something of value as a show of good faith in return for their life..

I mean, if you are going to take a policy of rehabilitation...

(Which I've already said I do not believe will work...I'd just as soon put them out of my misery.)

[Laisrean]

It's my understanding that castration does nothing to help the person. Those impulses do not come from the sexual organ itself, and there are plenty of substitutes to be used by men who have trouble getting or maintaining an erection.

Lobotomy, then.

[WokeUpDead]

Yes...but at least they'd be giving up something of value as a show of good faith in return for their life..

I mean, if you are going to take a policy of rehabilitation...

(Which I've already said I do not believe will work...I'd just as soon put them out of my misery.)5 or 10 or however many years the sentence is sounds like something of value. The few states that do have small scale rehab programs do have noticably better results.

[Faol-chù]

5 or 10 or however many years the sentence is sounds like something of value.

I disagree....considering the impact on the victim.