In the Closet

[Cunae]

I feel just like a gay person who is afraid to come out. I think the friend who invited me here may know what I mean. We dwell in other places than this where we would definitely not be as accepted.

I am surrounded by Christians. I am a Christian in the barest sense but I have aspects of my awareness, my faith, that would not be appreciated by my Christian brothers & sisters. Some would even be horrified and certain that I am hell-bound. Others might assume I am mentally ill!

This as been brought even more to mind when I've answered questions regarding why I am here at all. I am here to openly explore my undefined mystic beliefs. I am married to a pastor and talk about pressure to conform! I feel supressed, controlled, manipulated by, of all things, the love of the people around me. I honestly do not believe this is evil, however. They mean well, in other words.

I am always pushing boundaries with them because I love Christ with all of my heart but not in the methods that these people do. Their faith is blind, undeveloped, even infantile. Mine is growing like a a crazy vine.

I have the desire to explore new ways of connecting with God. I can't stand the stale, dead hymns. Sermons torture me. I want to scream at how closed-minded and simplistic Christianity is. I want so much more to relish my own irreverance and laugh with my tonsils showing! But I am not mocking God. At least not in my eyes.

I am not sure what I am saying. It's like am grasping for words that don't exist. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what happens.

Thanks for listening.

PS. anyone here who came out as gay will probably identify with this thought process!

[Cloaked Raven]

MC, you're right, I do know what you mean. :hugz: It's not easy is it?

[spiral]

For what it's worth, I think that you are the best kind of Christian - willing to challenge your own beliefs and your religion's assumptions with new ideas.

In my opinion, all religions and ideologies need people who are able to do this.

[AmericanMe]

You sound like someone who cares too much about what others think. Granted, hubby matters, but what's more important is that you square your beliefs together. What is it about your beliefs that are in conflict with the Bible? What is in conflict with what your pastor/husband thinks? Have you talked to him about it?

[Philosophia]

I do know what you mean. Nobody here really knows my beliefs except that it has parts of Dianic and Reconstructionism in it. I call myself eclectic but also have trouble with the stereotypes that exist with that title as well.

We had a wonderful member who passed away named StephanieAine (her daughter Irish Dancer is here). She taught us that Christians weren't all alike and that we shouldn't judge a religion based upon a few.

The best advice I can give is be true to yourself and let it show through your words and actions. You've come here to a place that is predominantly Pagan to learn and that speaks volumes about your courage to do so.

Also, like AM stated, who cares what others think? Be yourself (within the respect rule, of course ;)) and learning will occur from all sides.

:hugz:

[Cunae]

You sound like someone who cares too much about what others think. Granted, hubby matters, but what's more important is that you square your beliefs together. What is it about your beliefs that are in conflict with the Bible? What is in conflict with what your pastor/husband thinks? Have you talked to him about it?

I don't think my beliefs conflict with the Bible... but my beliefs conflict with those around me, only they don't know it! Spouse is a real jerk... very self-righteous, sanctimonious and judgmental. Don't worry, he's being punished by marrying me!!

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"

He knows hardly anything about my explorations but he knows I have a renewed interested in my Cheyenne grandmother. When I started hanging beads, an eagle feather and a buffalo tail on my "Native American wall"... he shrugged it off. He has no idea I see them as powerful talisman. If he knew, he'd probably have a holy seizure.

[Cassie]

I don't think my beliefs conflict with the Bible...
but my beliefs conflict with those around me, only they don't know it!
Well at least you are not alone. I think a lot of us here grew up in Christian families and respect a lot of the good things in Christianity. It is hard to find the right balance and each person has to find their own path.


Spouse is a real jerk... very self-righteous, sanctimonious and judgmental. Don't worry, he's being punished by marrying me!!

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"
Actaully it sounds like you are a perfect couple! You are certainly helping each other to grow and think.


He knows hardly anything about my explorations but he knows I have a renewed interested in my Cheyenne grandmother. When I started hanging beads, an eagle feather and a buffalo tail on my "Native American wall"... he shrugged it off. He has no idea I see them as powerful talisman. If he knew, he'd probably have a holy seizure.
From the way you describe your relationship I would imagine he may already know a bit more about your explorations than you imagine.
Are there any 'journeys' you could take together? I am thinking of a retreat or something like that, a place where you can discuss things openly in a more neutral setting (maybe away from the rest of his flock)?

[Cunae]

From the way you describe your relationship I would imagine he may already know a bit more about your explorations than you imagine.
Are there any 'journeys' you could take together? I am thinking of a retreat or something like that, a place where you can discuss things openly in a more neutral setting (maybe away from the rest of his flock)?


Up to a very high cliff with many sharp edifices below... um, I won't go there...

[Phoenix Blue]

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"
*Soft smile* If you don't mind me asking, why are you still married? I was trapped in a poisonous relationship for several years myself, so I kind of understand where you are. But what it comes down to is, are you better off with him or without him?

If the communication isn't there, and the trust isn't there, and the love isn't there, why stay?

[David19]

*Soft smile* If you don't mind me asking, why are you still married? I was trapped in a poisonous relationship for several years myself, so I kind of understand where you are. But what it comes down to is, are you better off with him or without him?

If the communication isn't there, and the trust isn't there, and the love isn't there, why stay?

That's what I was wondering, I'm sorry if I'm misreading the OP, but, it doesn't sound like a real/loving marriage, especially if you don't have many common interests, and you're having an affair. I know it can be hard if you're in the "broom closet" (or whatever you want to call it), but, if it's a loving marriage, that can be overcome, from what you stated, it sounds like you and him don't really love each other, so, why are you still together? (if you don't mind me asking, I'm not trying to be rude).

BTW, I know what it's like to be in the closet, just not for being a Pagan (I'm gay).

Good luck whatever you do.

[Cunae]

Thanks for caring enough to ask... I have stayed married because (now this is crazy) I feel obligated to. The people in his church have been very kind to me. I was very sick in the summer of 2007 and they were there for me, as was he. I wouldn't have made it without them, and that's for real.

And while I don't love him, really, I don't want to repay Spouse by hurting him like that.

And in a twisted way, I like the role of twisted pastor's wife. Being irreverant and showing them Christianity can be fun in a way they've never imagined. I make Christian rock videos for the services, which is mind-boggling if you consider how conservative the congregation still is. I express ideas that have opened some minds. I feel like I am serving a purpose for the first time in my life.

I do feel trapped at times. Coming here is making me feel ok for being me... the real me.

[Shanti]

Thanks for caring enough to ask... I have stayed married because (now this is crazy) I feel obligated to. The people in his church have been very kind to me. I was very sick in the summer of 2007 and they were there for me, as was he. I wouldn't have made it without them, and that's for real.

And while I don't love him, really, I don't want to repay Spouse by hurting him like that.

And in a twisted way, I like the role of twisted pastor's wife. Being irreverant and showing them Christianity can be fun in a way they've never imagined. I make Christian rock videos for the services, which is mind-boggling if you consider how conservative the congregation still is. I express ideas that have opened some minds. I feel like I am serving a purpose for the first time in my life.

I do feel trapped at times. Coming here is making me feel ok for being me... the real me.But its ok to hurt your spouse with lies, deceit and belittling... as how it seems from your other post.
Spouse is a real jerk... very self-righteous, sanctimonious and judgmental. Don't worry, he's being punished by marrying me!!

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"Just because you dont agree with your spouse or his congregation, doesnt mean you need to be condensing in return.

Their faith is blind, undeveloped, even infantile.

Why not just fly free and be whom ever you want?

[Cunae]

You're right... my life is full of contradictions. Well, that's enough of this topic! Let's yap elsewhere.

[AmericanMe]

I don't think my beliefs conflict with the Bible... but my beliefs conflict with those around me, only they don't know it! Spouse is a real jerk... very self-righteous, sanctimonious and judgmental. Don't worry, he's being punished by marrying me!!

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"


Wow....

With all due respect, if I was your husband...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/64/185141557_90c996e7fa.jpg?v=0

[Phoenix Blue]

If you have to say "With all due respect," you probably shouldn't say it.

[Brightshores]

Mystic Christian,

I'm going to recommend two books to you. Firstly - let me recommend the writings of Julian of Norwich, a 14th century Christian mystic who had some very revolutionary ideas about Christianity. She refers to Christ as "mother," for example.

The second is The Testament of Gideon Mack, which is a modern work of fiction about a minister who "decides he can be a minister without involving Christ very much." He has some bad experiences with his flock, and ends up meeting the Devil in a weird set of circumstances.

Fascinating stuff, and from what you're saying, I think you might find both works really interesting.

Light and peace to you as you walk your path.

[Caitlin.ann]

Hmm..not going to say "not to be rude" because well this likely is rude and to be honest I don't care. In one post you say how mean and infantile these people are and in the next you say you owe them. You're asked why you stay in your marriage you say because you "owe" it to your husband yet you're committing adultery. None of this makes sense to me, honestly. My opinion, the best answer is to be honest with yourself and your spouse and your congregation, otherwise you're just being a slave to their wishes and thats no way to live a life. Unless you're really staying with him because of other reasons such as fear or financial support? I mean you don't love him, you can't be yourself there has to be some other reason other than you "owe" others. Maybe its easier to stay and lean on him while you sleep around with someone else?

[Philosophia]

*Because I believe this thread has wandered into an area that goes beyond what T&P is, I'm moving it to Paths: Abrahamic Faiths. If anybody has an issue with this move, my PM box is open and I (or the forum guide of Paths: Abrahamic Faiths) will endeavor to have the thread moved back into T&P or into another forum.*

[Cunae]

*Because I believe this thread has wandered into an area that goes beyond what T&P is, I'm moving it to Paths: Abrahamic Faiths. If anybody has an issue with this move, my PM box is open and I (or the forum guide of Paths: Abrahamic Faiths) will endeavor to have the thread moved back into T&P or into another forum.*

Hmmmm. Well, I would just as soon let it go entirely! It really didn't serve any purpose.

[Caitlin.ann]

I would PM and Admin.

[Malcolm]

I am a major thorn in his side. I get tattoos, my nose pierced, have a lover he's in denial about, hang out on evil websites, question his simplistic beliefs, test his ability to be a leader to the flock by teasing him all the time, etc. I was a raging alcoholic for a while, too, and ended up in rehab twice. Last year I crashed into a car because I was drunk. Oh yeah, I'm quite the "pastor's wife!"


and they call us heathens...:lol:

[Cunae]

and they call us heathens...:lol:

Why do you think I am here! :weirdsmil

[Malcolm]

Why do you think I am here! :weirdsmil

Probably just looking for a way out, like all of us :2G:

[Sequoia]

Staying in a marriage with no joy, no purpose... lying to an entire congregation... risking your life and the lives of others (with your little car crash story)...

Are these things very Christ-like? But you say you are a follower of Christ?

When I was a young child, I accepted Jesus as a personal savior. I worshiped with a Christian congregation. Even now that I am an adult and (for lack of a better term) pagan, I still respect the figure that Jesus is, and what he stood for. I may not follow the religion, but I still can see the light of it's main focus - Jesus Christ.

I think He would be pretty sad to see you living your life this way. It sounds like you're taking risks to compensate for the lack of activity and joy you have in your home life. I may not worship Christ as you do, but I think that you may want to do some soul-searching.

If you are only happy "living on the wild side" and letting your husband live in denial, perhaps it would be best to "come out" of the closet and live your life freely?

Take some time to talk to yourself. Why did you marry this fellow in the first place? Did you previously share his beliefs? Do you feel that he is not growing, but that you've outgrown him and his faith?

You've got to be true to yourself, and, to a certain extent, others. Hiding "in the closet" won't last long at the rate you're going. Do you want to be "discovered", or do you want to declare yourself?

[Miabella]

I feel just like a gay person who is afraid to come out. I think the friend who invited me here may know what I mean. We dwell in other places than this where we would definitely not be as accepted.

I am surrounded by Christians. I am a Christian in the barest sense but I have aspects of my awareness, my faith, that would not be appreciated by my Christian brothers & sisters. Some would even be horrified and certain that I am hell-bound. Others might assume I am mentally ill!

This as been brought even more to mind when I've answered questions regarding why I am here at all. I am here to openly explore my undefined mystic beliefs. I am married to a pastor and talk about pressure to conform! I feel supressed, controlled, manipulated by, of all things, the love of the people around me. I honestly do not believe this is evil, however. They mean well, in other words.

I am always pushing boundaries with them because I love Christ with all of my heart but not in the methods that these people do. Their faith is blind, undeveloped, even infantile. Mine is growing like a a cblerazy vine.

I have the desire to explore new ways of connecting with God. I can't stand the stale, dead hymns. Sermons torture me. I want to scream at how closed-minded and simplistic Christianity is. I want so much more to relish my own irreverance and laugh with my tonsils showing! But I am not mocking God. At least not in my eyes.

I am not sure what I am saying. It's like am grasping for words that don't exist. Just thought I'd throw it out there and see what happens.

Thanks for listening.

PS. anyone here who came out as gay will probably identify with this thought process!


Aww sweetie i know how you may feel a lil at times, Not only am i considered a lesbian but i come from a strict strict family background who was all brought up roman catholic! I was a peer minster in my highschool, sung in the choir, taught sunday school to lil children and even wanted to be a minster one day HA! trust me I still love what I was taught growing up, I took the good what I learnt, love thy neightbour and help thoses around you. Yet as i grew up i found out whom I am and the more i knew the less I knew id be accepted. Its like living a double life, only not as exciting as a double secret agent *wink

[Cunae]

Thank you, Miabella, for understanding this a little better than some others have.

In the meantime... die, thread, die!





Really, what can I say. I am a boiling cauldron of contradictions. I think I do a lot of acting out because of other issues. I was a very quiet, studious kid and a summa cum laude in college. I didn't learn about the wild side until I was in grad school. I tried to conform to society's idea of a good marriage and being a good wife. It didn't take long for me to rebell.

I am sorry for the dual images I've presented, here and elsewhere. You are never going to see my pic next to the dictionary definition of "Christian" but I am a good example that Christ loves the sinner... and this sinner loves Him back. All I can do is try to make sense of it all.

BTW, I have not slept with my lover this year but I still love him. I talk to him now and then. I guess we are just friends now, really. I haven't slept with Spouse either. I suspect my sexuality is burned out for now.

[_Banbha_]

and they call us heathens...:lol:

...without realizing it's a compliment. :p

[Phoenix Blue]

I am sorry for the dual images I've presented, here and elsewhere. You are never going to see my pic next to the dictionary definition of "Christian" but I am a good example that Christ loves the sinner... and this sinner loves Him back. All I can do is try to make sense of it all.
I don't think you owe us any apologies. :) But I would strongly recommend you and your husband seek out a marriage counselor.

[Malcolm]

I don't think you owe us any apologies. :) But I would strongly recommend you and your husband seek out a marriage counselor.

Thats some sound advice. Its not healthy for a person to live their life in fear.

[Sequoia]

I don't think you owe us any apologies. :) But I would strongly recommend you and your husband seek out a marriage counselor.

I'll third that!

[Cunae]

I don't live in fear, though. I live in uncertainty. And I am getting counseling about it.

[MetropolisGott]

I believe everything happens for a reason. Even if you don't love him in the typical sense, you're with him for a reason. I don't know what that reason is, and you may not know the reason right now either. But I think that the further this goes, the more the both of you will grow and strengthen eachother in the oddest of ways.

I can sympathize with your...lack of connection with most of the congregation. Most churches I've seen seem to be that way nowadays. Christians are once-a-week holy(wo)men and the rest of the week like the rest of us sinful folk, if that :P If anything, though, not only will your husband likely grow from your presence, but you'll likely bring great things to this congregation that seems a bit stagnant.

Blessings to you, and I certainly hope your situation turns out for the best.