Timing in rituals

[Morred]

This might be kind of a silly question, but what do you do when it says in a spell or ritual "Let the candle burn for 9 minutes" or something like that? I mean, do you have a clock on your altar or how do you measure the time? I just wonder if that doesn't kind of destroy the "atmosphere", if you know what I mean... *imagines a ringing egg timer...trrrrrrrrriiiiinggggg* :eyebrow:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

This might be kind of a silly question, but what do you do when it says in a spell or ritual "Let the candle burn for 9 minutes" or something like that? I mean, do you have a clock on your altar or how do you measure the time? I just wonder if that doesn't kind of destroy the "atmosphere", if you know what I mean... *imagines a ringing egg timer...trrrrrrrrriiiiinggggg* :eyebrow:

Not a silly question , at all...

My answer...do not use spells , that are based on quantitive time...

Quantative time / Qualitive time...

The "dreamtime" space , which is related in certain ways to the
"alpha state" , as in brain wave function , is based on qualitive
time...the "quality" of the time , is your experience of it...

Let alone , once you fully enter magickal trance , there is no time...

And for a spell to truly , and fully work , by accessing the level
of the subconscious mind , imprinting your desire , sigil , scents ,
sonics , then releasing , and sending forth your magickal current...

You must be in no time...

Just never made sense to me...:thumbsup:

[Morred]

Just never made sense to me...:thumbsup:

Yes, to me too, that's why I'm asking :uhhuhuh:

[Morred]

Well, I just saw that in some spells a time designation like that is used, so I just wondered how you would measure that...see my post above. I never used a spell like that before, so I don't know if it makes a difference.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

If it doesn't have any significance for you, then why do it?

Edited to add: Actually, rereading your original post, I'm not sure if you are saying that it doesn't have any significance, so forgive me if I'm wrong. :)

If that question is directed at me , Sea of Stars...

I only use spells , or better , create spells , not based on "clock time"

Thus , not having to pay attention to "quantative tine"...

I do believe Morred , has come to a point they are ready to cease this
constraint , as well...

There are more structured approaches to ritual...as in ceremonial
magick...or , as in atavistic practices , less structure...

But the time lock of clocktime , and magickal trance , do not go
well together...What do you say , Morred...?

[Nox_Mortus]

Yeah I never rarely fo anything like that, and if I do need something like that I use a metronome or an hourglass. or if it's a rough measure and a long enough period of time, candles.

[Morred]

If that question is directed at me , Sea of Stars...

I only use spells , or better , create spells , not based on "clock time"

Thus , not having to pay attention to "quantative tine"...

I do believe Morred , has come to a point they are ready to cease this
constraint , as well...

There are more structured approaches to ritual...as in ceremonial
magick...or , as in atavistic practices , less structure...

But the time lock of clocktime , and magickal trance , do not go
well together...What do you say , Morred...?

I must say, I'm not very experienced in rituals and spells yet. But I'm reading and thinking a lot, and for me personally it is very difficult to put my whole intent and energy into something, especially something magical, if I don't see any sense in it or even in a part of it.
So when I'm doing spellwork or ritual, it just doesn't make sense to me to "let this candle burn for 7 minutes" because

1. I have no way to actually measure that time except I include a alarm clock in my rituals. Gazing at a watch is not better at all.

2. Going by "real time" kind of puts a constraint on me, like a frame, and that makes me more likely wait for the time to pass and just finish than actually fully concentrating on it.

I hope I make myself clear :) Is that in the direction of what you meant, Shawn?

[Nox_Mortus]

If you aren't using ceremonial magic that requires it and feel that using timed elements is a constraint then you certainly don't need to do it. I wouldn't recommend it either, for the reasons you yourself listed.

[Morred]

If you aren't using ceremonial magic that requires it and feel that using timed elements is a constraint then you certainly don't need to do it. I wouldn't recommend it either, for the reasons you yourself listed.

Yes, I guess so....It would rather encumber than actually help me if it doesn't make sense to me, right? And no, I'm not using ceremonial magic, so I guess it's not necessary.

[Nox_Mortus]

Yes, I guess so....It would rather encumber than actually help me if it doesn't make sense to me, right? And no, I'm not using ceremonial magic, so I guess it's not necessary.

yeah pretty much, all that's really necessary in most non-ceremonial magic is proper mindset and intent, for some people the timing helps with the first part, for you it hinders it, so there you go.

[Ivy Artemisia]

Many times when I do a spell like you seem to be speaking of, I don't do it in a circle, so I can easily time it with an alarm that beeps once. However, if you are looking for an alternative, you might want to look at chanting. Either write or choose a chant that would aid in your spell in some way. Figure out how long it takes you to say it. Divide your goal time, by the time it takes to say the chant once, and boom! You have an easy way to time your spell while also adding energy to it. :) I suggest using prayer beads to help you keep track. :)

In regard to timed elements, I use them like numerology- as a catalyst to my spells at times. So, sure you could elimate the timed element, but if you feel that it might add energy to your spell, why not. :)

[Ivy Artemisia]

yeah pretty much, all that's really necessary in most non-ceremonial magic is proper mindset and intent, for some people the timing helps with the first part, for you it hinders it, so there you go.

I'd go a step further and add energy. Whether its energy-in to the spell, or energy raised for the spell, IME, its really important- intent and focus/mindset is great, but if you don't put any energy/effort into it, you might not be as successful as if you had taken the time to research, or worked on raising energy during the spell itself.

[Godgifu]

I have a clock in my room, and just try to keep my eye on it. If I lit the candle at 6:02 then I wait till it says 6:11 or something to kill it.

I will say though, I never found the spells to be improved by letting a candle burn a specific amount of clock-time.

[Nox_Mortus]

I'd go a step further and add energy. Whether its energy-in to the spell, or energy raised for the spell, IME, its really important- intent and focus/mindset is great, but if you don't put any energy/effort into it, you might not be as successful as if you had taken the time to research, or worked on raising energy during the spell itself.

true, but I generally consider energu an extension of intent for the purpose of spell work. As intent has to be present in everything you do to create a spell, thus giving it energy.

[Teresa]

I do a lot of seven day rituals. In these rituals the same candle is burned down some each of those days. What I do is make equal marks on the candle and let it burn whatever amount of time needed to reach that mark each of those days. I do not recall ever using a candle for a set amount of time. Not even the tea lights that I dress for other people and place on my altar. They can burn from 30 min to 2 hours sometimes.

Candles from the same batch can burn down at different rates and time frames. Most of the spells that I have worked with or used with candles would say something like until the candle burns out or burns down to the first notch etc. not a certain amount of time.

One place that I have seen time come into play with is Ritual Baths. For those an egg timer does work well. You have to recite something usually and immerse yourself under water a certain number of times(usually an odd number)during these types of Baths there is a set time to make sure one does not rush through the ritual. The ritual may say bathe no less than 7 or 9 minutes as an example.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

One place that I have seen time come into play with is Ritual Baths. For those an egg timer does work well. You have to recite something usually and immerse yourself under water a certain number of times(usually an odd number)during these types of Baths there is a set time to make sure one does not rush through the ritual. The ritual may say bathe no less than 7 or 9 minutes as an example.


Ah , yes...the "Lustrous Bath"...

Interestingly...in the code I work with...

One of our gematria boundary numbers , is 994...

Lustrous Bath = 458

Thus , the remainder , from 994 = 536

Archetypal Realm = 537

Dna Helix = 537

However :

Duration = 74

In = 190

Bath = 17

Equals = 113

Power = 28

Stream = 113

= 535

Interesting , heh , Teresa ?