Jahova's Witnesses read all please

[StormChaser]

Alright, so they come to your door twice a year.. wanting to "talk" to you about God.
So you've grown up believing this is a nuissance.. and sometimes it is... you've got kids to handle.. a circle to right, a ritual to attend, a dinner to make.. whatever..

Recently i found my biological fathers family. My aunt, the only person I remembered from childhood of that side.. is a Jahova's Witness.

She isn't the first Witness I've met. The first was a friend named Tavian. Both of whom, are really wonderful people. Now I'm not touting their religious beliefs at all. I am not monotheistic, nor have I ever or ever will be a bible subscriber. BUT i would like to open up your minds a little to the type of people these people are.. Because I DO think they have gotten a bad reputation because of how much they "inconvience" us.

Things you should know before you Bash:

On Drugs and Ciggarrettes:
These people are extremely against them. You are given a cut off date.. You must quit smoking to join the faith.. because drugs etc are pollutants to your body. These people have will power and dedication

On Alcohol:
Moderate consumption is acceptable because of varying instances throughout the Bible. Excess is not permitted

On Blood Transfusions:
Blood is sacred, and should never be "given" away or "stolen"
Because of this very sacred belief Witnesses fund and have helped to find new ways to operate without the use of blood transfusions. In fact.. if you have a schedualled surgery, you might want ot look into "bloodless surgery"

On Nature:
These people view nature as God's artistry, and truely.. have an amazement toward the earth.. and all of its beauty. My aunt said to me "I am so glad I am not God, because I just don't have that kind of imagination to paint each sunset... or to have thought to put irridecent eyes on an insect" In fact, the JW's I've met, my aunt included, tend to be nature oriented people, trying to keep pollution to a minimum, recycling, using solar heat, etc.

On Politics:
They believe religion and politics should have nothing to do with each other. They don't vote. They are not responsible for Bush or any other person getting into office. The believe that politics center largely around an attachment to this earth in an unhealthy manner... God created one large canvas with no lines to separate one area from another. This is their belief

On treating people humanly:
These people care excessively about others. They want everyone to find the peace they have found, they want everyone to fill their hearts with love and learn to respect each other and care for each other. They believe through "God Jahova" you can do this. How much can you hate someone for loving you "too much".
Because that is really what it boils down to.

These people are not hypocrits.. when they come to your door, that proves it.. they are active participants in their faith. They study other religions, and while they can't always understand them, they do try. These people are the first to take personal responsibility.. even in a matter that isn't their fault. The JW's i've met are truly gentle souls.

These people try really hard to live their lives according to thier beliefs, dedicate themselves, their families, and nearly every waking moment to being what they consider a good person.. travel door to door.. getting them slammed in their faces.. hearing the jeers and the snears and the jokes. And I won't lie.. i used to be someone who did that.

But I took a lesson from My aunt.. and she doesn't even know it..
And that is.. to begin LIVING my faith..
That means.. not slamming a door, but inviting them in.
it means taking a moment to show kindness to a stranger
to expand my mind by learning not just about other spiritualitys.. but about other spirits.

I don't say JOIN THE WITNESSES
I am not about to become one..
But I am saying that it wouldn't hurt you to treat them decently
Remember nearly everyone of every other faith disdains these people..
almost as much as those faiths disdain us.
Perhaps it would behov us to develope some kindness, extend
a hand of friendship to a people whom many of us share ideals with.

Just a thought..
My own little "mission" of mercy
to end narrow mindedness and open doors.

[Annika]

You made some very good points StormChaser.

One of my dearest friends is a Jehovah's Witness. She is, by far, one of the kindest individuals I've ever known. Her religion dictates that I'm a lost soul of of sorts and that she is to witness to me. And she has....by simply sharing things about her faith that she thinks are of interest...or might be of interest to me. For example, during a coversation where I mentioned that I wanted to learn more about the Hollocaust (probably spelled very wrong), she offered to loan me a tape that the JW's had made about it. Her "witnessing" to me has never been intrusive, and I'm am very appreciative of that.

However, every religion is filled with some very wonderful people, as well as those who take things too far. It seems StormChaser and I are very fortunate to know some of the wonderful JW's.

Blessed Be.
Annika

[Old Witch]

I too have friends who are Witnesses........Southern Baptists...........and good friends who are Mormons......I just don't want anyone coming to my door to "enlighten" me...........My house, My time, My right..................

[Mythrel]

I didn't know several things about the JW religion...thanks for the info to help open my mind a little more...

[Sequoia]

*applauds*

[Pan]

Wow... this info is rather enlightening.. maybe I won't run from the door making it look like I'm not home anymore...

It was never really the JWs that I ran from.. nor the Mormons.. it was the Baptists. 8O I know the Baptists in my area and I'd rather not speak to them if I can help it! Since I know them, it's easier to justify my running. :T:T

[StormChaser]

I'm glad you found it enlghtening.

Personally i run from the pedestrians.. erm.. prysbyterians.. oh however you spell it...

[aria]

that's just fascinating. I never really knew much about the Jehova's Witnesses, just that they were a monotheistic religion that went door to door and tried to convert people. It's nice knowing a little bit about their faith. Thanks for the enlightenment!

[MammaStar]

Like you StormChaser, I'm related to JW's. My cousin Mikey. We are tighter than tight, except, he doesn't know the *truth* about me. Then again, most of my extended family doesn't know.

HOWEVER, my cousin, is a sweet, wonderful, hard working kind man. Married a woman and adopted her 2 kids. My Aunt is a good lady and so is my other cousin Matty and their Dad, my Uncle Steve. I once asked them why they bang on people's doors. All that was explained was that it was written, part of their "guidelines" so to speak. *shrug*

I just don't like the fact than they seem to bang on my door on the ONE Saturday, I have the entire house to myself and can sleep late. That annoys me. I like my sleep. ;)

[savian]

Well I have to say that if you are happy with them good for you. I wish I could be the same. My father became one of them out in Cal. when I was 13 or 14. He talked to me for about 1 year then he told me that I have to make a choice. It was either change to his belief or he doesn't talk to me anymore. That was the last time I have ever spoke to my father. I have heard that not all are like that but for me it is hard not to have that dislike towards them. I know I should not be that way but it happened at a time when my father (who was never around when I was younger) and I where starting to get close. I hope that I will be able to forgive and forget and it is starting to happen but I am now 31 and it is a slow process for me.

[StormChaser]

Savian.. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, especially one like that. Personally I think that was your father taking things a little too far. My aunt lis has 4 kids and husband, none of whom have ANY interest in her faith. Not that she doesn't try like heck.. she really wants to "protect" them.. but she never would abandon them.

I think we've all got to have a little compassion for anyone whos gone through what you have.. but religion isn't the only thing that pulls fathers from their children.. or parents at all. I grew up with similar issues.. my ex almost step father *the only guy i knew as Dad for 10 years* separated from my mom and moved to canada when i was 14.. about the same time that he and I were starting to get along.. so I can understand the angst at the situation. I hope he comes to his senses.. but realize that you can't hate all of one type of person because ONE person of the faith has wronged you. Really we should all be careful, but open at the same time.

Here's to a future of more brightness and a freer soul from sorrow.

Blessed Be,
Sarah

[Saphra]

I have the utmost respect for everyone and their religious beliefs. I would prefer they don't leave notes taped to my door, but hey, my dogs scare the heck out of them but who wouldn't be scared of 3 big labrador's running at you with nothing but a piece of glass to seperate you from them???
Storm-I found your information very interesting, I never knew so much about the JW's, thank you.

BB ~Saphra

[Phoenix Blue]

I'm polite, but still insistent, when it comes to Witnesses' visits. I certainly do admire their courage; I just wish they'd not display it on my doorstep. ;)

[savian]

I don't hate them it is just a dislike. And like I said I'm working on it, what else can I do. And like Saphra I have respect for others beliefs even if they don't have it for mine.:D ;) :)

[flar7]

I really liked the positive note of your post.

on the other hand, JW should respect the right of choice that
God gave all beings(according to their faith) and not return to
your door after being told(politely) that your beliefs dont mesh
with theirs. They are also compensated for the time they spend
going door to door(in some cases) 2 will come to your door while
one person stays in the car and keeps track of the time spent
delivering the message. Some faiths are more tolerant of other
faiths, unfortunately, not the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I have spent much time deliberating the way I handle these
self styled "evangelists," and after trying the polite way of speaking
with them and understanding(one way street btw, they wont listen to you about your own faith) I have decided its best to just
send them away as quickly and politely as possible.

[earthcat]

Originally posted by Saphra
I have the utmost respect for everyone and their religious beliefs. I would prefer they don't leave notes taped to my door, but hey, my dogs scare the heck out of them but who wouldn't be scared of 3 big labrador's running at you with nothing but a piece of glass to seperate you from them???
Storm-I found your information very interesting, I never knew so much about the JW's, thank you.

BB ~Saphra

I think the pug scares more people away....:D

My Mom, Sister, and I used to invite them in. We'd then proceed to have a rousing good discussion, where all had a good time. We'd argue religion, (this was before I had been open to my family about being Pagan; my argument was mostly "Freedom of Speech & Religion".) We had two guys come back 2 or 3 times at the end of their day to our disussion; they had a riot.
What fun...

[Emaleth]

Thanks StormChase, your post was very positive and informative:) . My mom's friend is a JW, but we've never discussed religion with her. I know though, that she's a wonderful person, kind and generous. I think JW religion is not treated with the same respect as other religions, people make fun of them, but they really believe they are trying to save us, I guess we should be thankful;) .

Blessed Be

[Semele]

While I admire your original intent in the post, I feel a little like I have had my hands slapped for defending my own freedom of religion in my own home. I am never rude to these folks or anyone else who comes to my door to sale something. Sometimes I may even buy it...yes I believe they are trying to sale something. Perhaps it is a product in which they believe very dearly...thanks for the offer, but no thanks. I always take the little pamphlets and thank them.

I did make the mistake once of telling a women who kept asking about my faith that I was Pagan. She had a young girl with her, about 7 or 8 maybe and when I told her I was pagan her face got white and then red and she covered the little girls ears and then said some pretty nasty things about me going to hell, yada yada and how she didn't appreciate me saying such things in front of her child who was so impressionable. I pointed to my, then four year old son, and then reminded her she had come to my door and I asked her to leave. She went to the street and she and her daughter who she was so concerned about began to pray very loudly. I guess I should say the woman prayed and carried on while the poor child just looked at her. To me, she was the one who was causing any of the lasting negative memories to the child. I hadn't cursed at them or even been rude, it was her who got angry and out of control and that is what her child will remember.

I do have tolorance and acceptance for everyone and every religion. It is not my business to even understand it. It is not my chosen path, so why should I make the effort to understand it? On the same note, why would I have any need or right to badmouth a particular religion? It simply doesn't effect me.

One comment though on the bloodless surgery...it is not as simple as say, drinking water instead of milk. They are speaking of using volume expanders...and in some cases a volume expander can add enough volume to keep the body functioning properly. However, in most cases where a blood transfusion is required, a plasma expander will do nothing. You have a significant loss of blood volume which means there isn't enough red blood cells to carry oxygen to all the cells of the body or enough white blood cells to fight infection...clotting times are impaired, blood flow to all major organs are impaired. a volume expander, at this point will water down the blood you do have and the "blood" that gets to the organs is very oxygen poor and does almost no good. People die very quickly from blood loss...in facilities where there is ample blood waiting to be given to save lives.

It is their right to make such a decision for whatever reason they choose. For all I care they can say they just think blood is gross and they don't want it...because they have the right to choose to accept or not accept any treatment they want. Just as you and I do. It is a beautiful thing. However, on a side note, I can honestly tell you from personal experience with premie babies what starts off as a devout no blood product announcement due to religious beliefs, often gets changed to...only use Dad's blood...if absolutely necessary. This, of course makes me happy as it is saving hundreds of lives each year.

[Gwion]

Is there a Jehovah's Witness Protection Program?

[Semele]

:sick:

That's horrible!!

Oh, ok, it's a little funny!

:nonono:

[manstranger]

One of my good friends is a former witness. When I say something that might be out of line about them, she always corrects me. It's very educational, really.

Those that i have met haven't been bible thumpers. They thought they were providing a great service to me. It's nice to know they care, you know?

[Phoenix Blue]

Don't you have to know someone, on a more than superficial level, to really care about them? Yeah, we all care about other humans in the "are they alive today" sense. . . but not much more than that, for the majority of other humans out there. :) Certainly I don't care for George W. the way I care for Wanderer or Mely or Nallia.

So I don't expect a total stranger to care on anything more than a superficial level about me. In fact, the thought of someone I don't know presuming to care enough about my eternal soul to walk up to my door and try to sell me Divinity 2.0 is somewhat discomforting.

The principal purpose of any evangelism is to win souls for God. Who you win isn't even important to most faiths, beyond the very roots--the important statistic is, how many. That's why I find all evangelism offensive. If I want to know more about the Witnesses, I know where to find the Kingdom Halls. . .

[Rævyn Cigány]

You know, I really appreciated that information. I've only had one truly 'bad' experience with the JW's and it was sad as well.

My father (a now ex-cop) was witness (excuse the pun) to a horrific car accident in which a brother and sister (both JW's) were killed. I knew these two amazing people. They were both top high school students. They were studying to be ministers for their faith. They work 30 hours a week each to earn the money to go to colleges. Wendy and Joel and I used to have such lively debates about religion when we worked together and then all of a sudden their lives were snuffed out. The memorial service for these two siblings was so large, it had to be held in one of the high school's gyms (there are two). I bought three yellow roses for the surviving family and friends, and was greeted with small, terse smiles as I tearfully handed the mother, little sister and best friend a rose. I took my seat and notice something amazing. I was the only one crying. The service began and I was appauled by the things I heard. We were not to show grief. Mourning was unacceptable and stupid (well, that's a paraphrase, but that's how I felt), and all these people were staring into their Bibles without a word about the two wonderful people who DIED!! They read passage after passage that had really NOTHING to do with the afterlife or God or anything else and I'm thinking, jeeeeezus!! Can no one stand up and remember Wendy and Joel and at least show the least bit of grief?

I don't know... they just didn't seem... human...

B*B

Rae )O(

[Chibi-Fallon]

The ones around my mom's work are just a tad... off. They're kinda baptists mixed with JW. ^^; But they told me I going to be drafted into the "evil lesbian army." As far a I know I'm not a lesbian but maybe that's only a technicality.
And that's provided me with no end of entertainment, so I guess they get brownie points for that. :D

[StormChaser]

I wasn't aiming at slapping anyones hand from not wanting to welcome the JW's into their home or keeping themselves free from constant haranguings.

I was however suggesting that.. ya.. perhaps except the paphlets and say "While i appreciate this, and I will read them *whether you do or not it's a pleasant white lie* please respect that my faith and the way i observe it is my choice, and should I ever wish to speak on this matter more, i will seek YOU out. Thanks for your time,.. yada yada"
or something along those lines. A nice way to say thanks.. and goodbye.. and might avoid future reoccurances without really lowering yourself to a nasty way.

If they persist inform them of harassment laws in this country and that you will enforce them. But most of the ones i've met seem to respect your views when you say something along either of the lines i've given you.

I wasn't saying that hey ho.. bloodless surgery lets go.. b ut as i did say... for a smaller planned operation..might be something to look into.

As for mourning being a no no.. i think that has to do with the fact that JW's believe death is to be celebrated for they are then rejoined with their creator and that is a beautiful thing.

In my family i was always taught similarly.. by my very pagan mother... she said "we cry because we are selfish and we miss what we have lost.. if we believe in an afterlife of eternal beauty.. why then are we crying?" She was a big promoter of the Irish wake.. some drinking.. a lot of dancing.. and sillyness.. well.. not was.. Is..

I still kinda have to say that I'd rather people smile remembering me when i go.. than having a tear fest. A funeral should just be a parting ways "until we meet again" and we should be allowed to reminice of the friends we had. So that part of the JW way i have to disagree with..

but again.. I'm not a JW.. i'm not going to agree with everything they say and believe. But at the same time.. i think there are some things to be learned.

Why should you be interested in other faiths even if they aren't yours? Well thats simple.. to expand your mind.. to learn more about the world around you.

I care immensely about all life,.. lives i don't know.. because i know them through my veins..
"we are one you and i we are like the earth and sky.. one family under the sun. " ~Lion King 2: Simba's Pride

[flar7]

always remember, when it comes to surgery.........you sign before
the surgery. If you say, no blood products, and the simple surgery
goes the wrong way(cause you are a bleeder or something) then
you may very well die when a simple transfusion would have saved
your life, even in the simplest of surgeries. You always sign that
paper before any admission to a hospital or surgery.

[Mythrel]

Originally posted by StormChaser
I still kinda have to say that I'd rather people smile remembering me when i go.. than having a tear fest. A funeral should just be a parting ways "until we meet again" and we should be allowed to reminice of the friends we had.

I agree with this...I want there to be laughter and good memories at my funeral...not a bunch of crying and sadness...

[Mythrel]

now, story time...

Story 1... when I was a kid, we used to have JW's coming to our door faithfully about twice a year for 4-5 years running...my mom was always polite and nice when she told them no thank you...and they just kept coming back...so finally one year, she noticed them up the block a ways and ran inside, stripped down to her bra and panties, lit a cigarrete and didn't ash it so it had a long ash on it, grabbed a glass, but some ice in it and tea which made it look like a mixed drink...when they came to the door she ripped it open with cigarrete hanging out of her mouth, cup in hand and yell, "Yea, What the hell do you want?"

they turned beat red and then white...they stuttered and stammered and then just turned and walked away very quickly...it was mean, but damn it was funny!!!

Story 2...I had a kid in my class growing up that was a JW...we always got along great at school and hung in the same social groups, but he was never allow to participate in holiday celebrations, his parents would always pick him up before any halloween, christmas, etc parties at school...I always felt bad for him...he wasn't allow to go to birthday parties or anything...just didn't seem right to me...

but then again, not my religion and maybe he doesn't mind...I just feel he lost the ability to make most choices/decisions for himself...

[Élistariel]

This question is for people who are relatives or friends of JWs. I know about the whole "don't give blood, don't take blood" rule of theirs, but if they know they're going to need surgery that may "require" a blood transfusion, then depending on how long they've know they'll need the surgery, couldn't they ask the hospital to keep a little temporary personal blood bank? I read about this guy with a rare blood type who donated blood to "himself" incase of an accident. If they could do that, it would save their lives, and they, technically wouldn't be breaking a rule, because it's their blood going back into them. Just an idea.

[Mythrel]

actually, I think that is becoming more and more common, my aunt when she knew she'd be going in for back surgery, donated like 5 pints(not really sure how much) of blood over the course of 6 weeks to herself for the surgery

[Élistariel]

Almost forgot.
I heard, (JWs told people I know this), JWs don't celebrate birthdays or wear fancy jewelry, the ones my cousin lives or lived near maybe wore gold hoops, but that was the extent. And when her daughter, then two, asked the JW's daughter birthday, she said she didn't have one. Now obviously everyone has a bday, you have to have one to get a liscense and such, but I was just wondering what their beliefs were on celebrating bdays and wearing jewelry.

[Semele]

Originally posted by StormChaser

I was however suggesting that.. ya.. perhaps except the paphlets and say "While i appreciate this, and I will read them *whether you do or not it's a pleasant white lie*

While I do always try to be kind and respectful to all people, I find your suggestion that perhaps I lie to make them feel better quite insulting. That may very well be a breech in my own religious tenant for all you know. I am pretty sure it isn't something they would do for me.


Originally posted by StormChaser

Why should you be interested in other faiths even if they aren't yours? Well thats simple.. to expand your mind.. to learn more about the world around you.

If I want to learn more about the world around me I am mature enough to go out and seek that knowledge, which I have been known to do quite often in my life. I do not need that knowledge seeking me.

[Illuminatus]

As much as I hate to take the dissenting point of view, my experiences have been different. In three words: It's a Cult. I've read and heard a lot of accounts from "Jehovas Witnesses Survivors", and many of them are not pretty.

Certainly, not all of the churches or branches act the same way. Some must be more leniant than the others. But I've heard terrible things about some individuals, who suffered all sorts of abuse: sexual, psychological, physical, spiritual... by their friends and family in accordance with the tennants of this faith. One of the more well-known ones is the convention of "shunning" someone as punishment. Yeah, I know, big deal, nobody talks to you for a week. But think about it - NOBODY talks to you for a week. Everyone and everything in your life is a constant reminder of rejection and disdain. It's pretty heavy.

So, as a final caveat, watch your step, because the line between a religion and a cult is a very blurry one, and not all the JW's fall on the same side.

- Illuminatus!

[Old Witch]

Originally posted by Gwion
Is there a Jehovah's Witness Protection Program?

Well, yes, I do have a Witness Protection Program of sorts......Individually they are known as Dax, Cherokee, Tipper, and Bitty...collectively they are known as the Pack..........

[Semele]

Originally posted by Illuminatus

So, as a final caveat, watch your step, because the line between a religion and a cult is a very blurry one, and not all the JW's fall on the same side.

- Illuminatus!

Well, yeah the line is blurry, but not just for JW. I would dare say all religions have been used as a front for indecent or abusive behavior. Certainly Christian Televangelists have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from trusting people who are on a true spiritual quest. The same goes for sexual predators...a religious organization or group/cult is an easy place for them to prosper. Have you seen the news about the sexual abuse accusations against Catholic Priests? Many folks are conned into a seemingly wonderful religious group, only to discover later that it is indeed a cult. Think Davidians etc. So, yeah I am sure there have been JW groups that could fall under that umbrella, just as there have been pagan groups that are little more than orgies, drug abuse and theatrics.

[Annika]

Originally posted by Maren Themah
Almost forgot.
I heard, (JWs told people I know this), JWs don't celebrate birthdays or wear fancy jewelry, the ones my cousin lives or lived near maybe wore gold hoops, but that was the extent. And when her daughter, then two, asked the JW's daughter birthday, she said she didn't have one. Now obviously everyone has a bday, you have to have one to get a liscense and such, but I was just wondering what their beliefs were on celebrating bdays and wearing jewelry.

I hadn't heard about the jewelry aspect, but my JW friend explained the birthday thing to me. They don't celebrate birthdays because every occurrance in the Bible regarding a birthday also includes some form of tragedy. She gave me a couple of example's that I don't recall, and I'm not overly familiar with the Bible to think of any myself.

Old Witch: Beautiful dogs!!!!

[HiddenEvils]

Merry Meet

I used to have a friend who was a JW, but eventually we grew aprat, no fault of anyones. As for not slamming the door in their face, well I promise never to do that! lol I can't do anything like that, I feel to bad! Damn concience. I prolly dint spell that right lol.

Blessed Be

[MammaStar]

When I was a kid...my Dad would mess with my head about my cousin's b-day. Technically, he's 6 months younger than me. The day he was born was December 6th. But he never celebrated it. But on our significant b-days (like when we turned 16) we call each other for b-day wishes.

When our Grandmother passed, it was Easter time. All of us kids got baskets. Even Mikey & Matty. My aunt & Uncle were cool about it too. They felt it was okay, that they weren't singled out by anyone. Mind you, at this time, Mikey and I were 17!!! :lol:

I probably won't ever truly understand their ways, but I respect them. I will admit. mikey doesn't know about my "witchy" ways. Only 2 of my extended family do and I've asked them NOT to tell Mikey. I know it sounds silly, but I don't know how he'd react to it all.

[Gwion]

I think that anyone who feels compelled to convert everyone else to their religion is manifesting the worst kind of spiritual insecurity.

[StormChaser]

Wow.. okay.. Semele.. personally i think you are taking this as an attack on you personally or something.. it's not.
You are being WAY WAY WAY abrasive on the topic. I was offering a different perspective and different view, im not trying to tell anyone how to live their lives, that they MUST change their views or MUST be nice or anything like that, but i am offering a slightly different perspective and just an IDEA on how else they could handle the situation.

Call me crazy, but now i wish i hadn't said anything.. but on the other hand im glad to see that some people got something out of it.

I'd like to make mention that Pagans\Wiccans\Witches aren't exactly the most perfect people either.. we've are own true losers in the community as i feel it. People who are converts who feel the need to talk INCESSANTLY about their GREAT.. ANCIENT faith.. who go on and on about The Goddess and how CRUEL and INDECENT, and HYPOCRITICAL other faiths are.. how PUSHY they are. People of these faiths that love to ram it down others throats the negativity of christianity and other more "mainstream" faiths.. Christian bashing and all that. I grew up in this community that while on one hand "meant well" by claiming it's open minded statute toward people of alternative lifestyles and sexual orientations.. a community that meant well by teaching tenents of faith that involved treating others with respect and decency, love and curtesy regardless of their personal differences.. all the while yapping about it's great morals.. while slamming people NOT part of the NEXT generation.. the NEw Age movement and mindset..
Not all these people really mean all the nasties they said, but they when in a pack, they develope some nasty pack mentality where they felt it was almost kewl to have something degrading to say about other faiths.. using slander almost to increase their numbers.. definitely heading some great mud slinging campaigns.

Probably why i can't stand to be involved with a "real" coven or group anymore. Sick of hypocracy really.

I'm sorry you feel attacked.. personally i feel im being yelled at for just trying to offer an alternative to nastygrams and slamming without knowlegde accept for "gosh they are annoying... i wonder how i can get em to back off this time that i can tell the guys at the next ritual" mentality.

~Sarah

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by Gwion
I think that anyone who feels compelled to convert everyone else to their religion is manifesting the worst kind of spiritual insecurity.

what is the difference between trying to convert others spiritually, and trying to raise your children with your ideals and values?

i have a friend whos parents had no hands on policy about religion.. years later he was quite upset that he had never had even been talked to about faith when he found something lacking in his life he didn't have a name for it.. and was very lost.. and really he was quite upset that his parents never even mentioned different religions beliefs or gods.. even their own faith.. keeping it a secret.

[Gwion]

>what is the difference between trying to convert others spiritually, and trying to raise your children with your ideals and values?<

I give up. What is it? No let me guess. Other people aren't your own children?

I have never once had a Witch come to my door to prosletyze. In fact, I know of many cases where a person was counseled that Wicca may not be a suitable path for them, and actively discouraged from pursuing it.

[Phoenix Blue]

I don't always see eye-to-eye with you, Gwion. . . but here, I couldn't agree more. Well-said.

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth Semele:
So, yeah I am sure there have been JW groups that could fall under that umbrella, just as there have been pagan groups that are little more than orgies, drug abuse and theatrics.
Hey, a little group action between consenting adults can't be all bad, can it? :p Seriously, though - the Pagan groups I've seen or participated in, which haven't had theatrical members and/or politics of some sort, have been in the minority. :) Happily, this is one group where the theatrics and politics are minimal, if not nonexistent.

[Semele]

Originally posted by StormChaser
Wow.. okay.. Semele.. personally i think you are taking this as an attack on you personally or something.. it's not.
You are being WAY WAY WAY abrasive on the topic.

I'm sorry you feel attacked.. personally i feel im being yelled at for just trying to offer an alternative to nastygrams and slamming without knowlegde accept for "gosh they are annoying... i wonder how i can get em to back off this time that i can tell the guys at the next ritual" mentality.

~Sarah

Hold on...I am not feeling attacked and I am sorry if I am coming across abrassive. I am usually much better at phrasing my posts so as not to offend folks or give the wrong impression. Lately in my life things have been crazy and hectic and I am having a hard time concentrating and such. Please understand I am not offended by your concern over how people of other faiths are being treated. I applaud it. I agree with you 100% that people from all different faiths are mean and such. How can we ask for tolorance and acceptance if we don't offer it ourselves?

On that same note though, I have long since stopped caring if others accept me or my religious or any other decisions in MY LIFE. I think for far too long we, as humans, have placed entirely too much value on the opinions and acceptance of others. I feel that my spirituality is the single most important aspect of my life that is for me and noone else. Noone can change my spirituality with negative comments or by trying to force their ideas into my head. I am unbending for I know what I know to be true and it is my own truth for me and doesn't involve anyone else. It has taken me a long time to get where I am spiritually and I don't intend to backtrack, even to try to help someone else find their way, because honestly my way may never work for another person. Everyone has to find their own way. There have been several great leaders in history who have found their way and tried, in vain,I feel to help others. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha...so many that we know about, and I hope several thousand more that we have never and will never hear of because they realise it is their path and not a cookie cutter path that can be duplicated.

Wow, sorry, I didn't really intend to get into all that, but now maybe you can understand where I am coming from a little better. I will, as I always have, try to treat all others with the respect they show me. Sometimes, often, I show more respect because that is how I was raised, but there is a limit to what I consider acting out of respect and outright doing harm. Telling a lie, no matter how small or large does harm to someone. Either myself, because I would then feel compelled to read the pamphlets or to them because they feel as though they have made an accomplishment that they haven't. I will strive to comfort others, but not to the extent that it causes my own discomfort.

I bow my head when a public prayer is taking place...out of respect. Where I would draw the line is if they asked me to give the blessing...not within my comfort zone. See what I am saying? Again, I apologize if I have come across the wrong way.

[Semele]

Originally posted by Phoenix_Blue
Happily, this is one group where the theatrics and politics are minimal, if not nonexistent.

nah...we just reserve all those antics for the back porch!!! Maybe I could get you a back stage pass sometime!;) Hey I wander if you have a date in mind???

[MammaStar]

Awwwww...you tell them that, they're all gonna wanna come out back!!!!

:lol: :lol:

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth Semele:
;) Hey I wander if you have a date in mind???
Freudian slip? :T

[Semele]

Not at all silly!! :cool:

[aluokaloo]

I never knew that. Thats very interesting, and I have to admit I've had no trouble with them persoanlly. But I just never knew that. i guess it comes from not being interested enough to ask.

[aluokaloo]

trying to convert would mean specifically deriding others beliefs and declaring that theirs is the only one. As far as children, my aunt had a very wise thing to say, bring up your kids with your own morals,let them decide for themselves and support it. As for your friend who was brought up with no hands on approach. Well, I think I can understand what they were trying to do. I have no intention of forcing my daughter into my belief's my fiance's beliefs, or letting my family push theirs. However, her dad is going to educate her in all beliefs, so should the time ever come when she finds a belief dear to her she'll be knowledgable on it.

[BlueWolf]

Just wanted to add to this thread.

Now, I've known several Jehovah's Witnesses. Some were nice, some were not. My best friend (underline that) is an Ex-Jehovah's Witness. She had the most horrible experiences. She had been a JW since she was young.

She was raped when she was 18, by the son of one of the elders. She tried to report him, but the group of elders told her it was obviously her fault, boys will be boys, and she had better not tell the cops, or she'd be banished. They actually used that word. They then preceded to shun her for the next two weeks, simply for coming to them about it. And like someone else had mentioned already, when you are shunned, you are DEAD to them.

Her daughter, who is also one of my good friends, did NOT want to be a JW. So the elder's told her that she was to cease having all contact with her daughter. Seriously. They actually told her to not have any contact at all with her own daughter. (Her daughter was 17 at the time.)

These are not the only bad experiences she had. When it came down to the daughter thing, she told them to kiss ass and she left. She hasn't heard from any of her friends there since.
One of her best friends in there was an artist. A fantastic one, really talented. The elders made her stop painting entirely, as it was prideful and took attention away from the glory of God. I've met the woman. She's like an empty shell.

And God forbid you question anything. My friend had already been brought up in front of the elders for asking to many questions about her faith.


Oh, and by the way, she's a witch now. : )

So anyway. I'm not saying all JW are like that. But just check out some of the JW survivor message boards sometime. They'll horrify you.

BlueWolf

[pawnman]

I've never had one come to my door. If one (or two, they tend to travel in pairs) do ever come, I plan to invite them in, offer cookies and milk, and sit quietly while they deliver their speil. Then I will thank them for coming, and wish them a safe and successful trip. It would never enter my mind to convert, and I fear a trip to my house would be a waste of their time. However, they are on a good path, and there's no reason not to give them what help I can.

[Juniecat]

I'm afraid my feelings on JWism has been a little poisoned since I was in junior high...in my district there are lots of little elementary schools and then when you hit junior high all of you are sent to the same school. When I went in seventh grade I met this girl with whom I hit it off right away. We had all the same classes and we laughed ourselves silly and all was great. So, I asked my mother if I could have her over some weekend and mom said sure, so I asked her...she asked her parents and then was told to inform me that she would not be permitted to be my friend outside of school because I was Catholic and therefore might influence her to a false faith. I was 11 years old and I had never experienced before being ANGRY at someone else's religion...I didn't know what to do with the feelings...I remember just crying and ranting to my mother for about an hour.

We remained "in-school" friends throughout high school and I remember being totally incensed when I found out she was allowed to visit the home of a mutual friend of ours who was an atheist...but only as long as she used the visit to try to convert her. We lost contact when we went separate ways for college, and I'm sorry if this offends, but I honestly hope she gave it up.

[BlueWolf]

I forgot to mention this in my previous post, but one of my college professors was Buddhist, and he had a stack of pamplets on Buddhism next to the door. He always would hand them one, and say, I'll read yours if you read mine.
Just thought I'd mention that. : )

BlueWolf

[the_young_one_88]

Well i was looking at some info on jw and i saw that they have a whole lot of things they are not allowed to do i found a whole list http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm which i remember someone saying that they could store their own blood ..... this one place says that you can't ... so i'm rather confused

[Sleet]

My experience with JW is a bit on the negative side, I must admit. Three days after my mother died, a "friend" of my father's tried to, for lack of a better term, recruit him to JW as it was the "only way he'd ever see her again." She handed him JW literature specifically designed to convert the mourning survivors of the recently deceased.

I was, frankly, disgusted by this, as was he.

[DixieWitch]

Thanks for the post. I knew only some things about the JW's...my husband's uncle and his family are JW. What little I knew about them is that they don't celebrate birthdays and they wouldn't come to our wedding because it was in a church that wasn't of their faith. I also knew about the blood thing. But as I always say--I have no problems with ANY religion...the only problem I have is people trying to force religion on me. And that goes for any faith--Bptist, Catholic, even Pagan. My faith and religion is my business.

[Infinite Muse]

individually these people are rather nice people; same as anyone else
but when a JW comes to my door, i find them to be rather pushy in a saccharine way
which is how i got myself roped into a "religious" studies course with them a while back
i just couldn't say to the woman who came to my door every week "no, please don't try to teach me more, it makes me uncomfortabel as it clashes with my beliefs"
i thought my saying that would make her feel really bad; i mean there is only so much rejection a person can take (i should know) and she faced it at every door she knocked at
so .. i only eventually got out of the classes by moving just before i had my daughter

[~BEBZ~]

I studied with the Jehovah's Witness's for almost a year. During that time I saw a lot of ugly things. If you are a part of their religion the "Elders" rule your life. You are also expected to give till it hurts. I've seen parents turn their backs on their kids and so much more. Me personally, I thought it was wrong. And I agree, it is a cult. "Dedicated"? So were the followers of Jim Jones and those comet people who layed down in their Nike's. Yeah, there is a very fine line between a religion and a cult. They have passed it. Heck they have surpassed it. When I first read Bucklands Complete Guide To Witchcraft, he had a test in the front on whether something was a religion or a cult. I took it using the Witness's beliefs and it scored off the chart!


Also a little FYI for anyone who doesn't know: Jehovah's Witness's were started by a man who in the 30's? prophesied that the world was going to end in I believe it was the late 40's or early 50's. When his date came and went he prophesied two other dates that turned out to be bogus. An entire religion based on a screwball? And they say Pagan's are flaky?!

[Yasmine Galenorn]

Well I have to say that if you are happy with them good for you. I wish I could be the same. My father became one of them out in Cal. when I was 13 or 14. He talked to me for about 1 year then he told me that I have to make a choice. It was either change to his belief or he doesn't talk to me anymore. That was the last time I have ever spoke to my father. I have heard that not all are like that but for me it is hard not to have that dislike towards them. I know I should not be that way but it happened at a time when my father (who was never around when I was younger) and I where starting to get close. I hope that I will be able to forgive and forget and it is starting to happen but I am now 31 and it is a slow process for me.

I was dragged into the JW's when I was 13 by my mother....the year she spent in it (and me by default) was one of the worst years of my life. They scared me to death, and I spent years untwisting what I was taught. It also ostracized me from the other kids at school to a point that nothing could change things. My stepfather had nothing to do with it--he refused, and that's one of the few things I give him credit for.

Thank gods my mother got out before we cut off everybody. The neighbors across the street had been married close to fifty years when the wife got into the JW's and they ended up divorcing after all that time because her husband refused to convert and the JW's forced her to choose between them and him. I have no love for the belief system, either...

I tend to not have trouble with door-to-door folks though, because I keep a sign posted on the door that states:

IF YOU ARE A:

SALESMAN: We don’t want what you’re selling.
SELLING MAGAZINES: We already subscribe to the ones we want.
FROM A CHURCH: We *really* aren’t interested. Don’t bother.
PASSING OUT PETITIONS: We’ll sign them at the grocery store.
TALKING POLITICS: We vote and have our politics all figured out.

IN OTHER WORDS:
THE ANSWER IS NO. GO AWAY.

THANK YOU.


If people ignore it, I point to the sign, ask "Can you READ?" and shut the door. I've gotten a LOT of smiles on that one when delivery men come to the house and our landlord loves the sign.

Yasmine :colorful:

[Mindflayer]

You know I've never once met a JW :p

They don't come around here, I don't know anyone who is one either...

*shrug*

[amberwolf]

I have a friend that is a Jehovas witness and we get on great what i dont like is the fact that they knock on your door and try to get you to take the watchtower and talk to you about their faith I for one would not even contemplate knocking on someones door telling them about my religion.....This is my space my time and if I wanted to be told about this i would go to their place of worship and do it that way.
I usually tell them im a hedgewitch and they just look at me and walk away....The same i do to sales people tell them im not interested...