The final judgment.

[Dumunzi]

All of the Abrahamic religions believe in the final judgment. In these religions it typically means that when you die, you are judged for the things you've done, and that it also means there will be a day of reckoning when everything goes to crap, we all die, or are sent to the afterlife and collectively judged.

Now I do not believe in Armaggedon, revelations, or any of that non sense.

I do however believe that when I die the God and Goddess will judge me for the things I've done in my life.

Do you believe something similar? It's not something I hear talked about much in the Pagan community.

[~Elise~]

I think the concept of judgment is a human construct coming from the concept of right and wrong.

I don't think the universe has that concept. I think we have soul lessons that we come here to learn...either we do or don't learn it. I think that is the 'judgment' we recieve and I think it comes from our 'higher self', not "goddess/god"

Elise

[Darth Brooks]

All of the Abrahamic religions believe in the final judgment. In these religions it typically means that when you die, you are judged for the things you've done, and that it also means there will be a day of reckoning when everything goes to crap, we all die, or are sent to the afterlife and collectively judged.

Now I do not believe in Armaggedon, revelations, or any of that non sense.

I do however believe that when I die the God and Goddess will judge me for the things I've done in my life.

Do you believe something similar? It's not something I hear talked about much in the Pagan community.

The Abrahamic religions inherited their respective concepts of Armageddon and a Last Judgment from Zoroastrianism. And before Zoroastrianism, similar ideas were accepted by the Egyptians. The oldest concept I am aware of concerning the idea of a soul being "judged" after death according to whether it was good or bad in this life goes back to Osiris, with the weighing of the dead person's heart against the feather of ma'at. However, the idea is probably even older than that.

It was also believed that Set would punish and torment the souls of the wicked in those areas of the Duat (underworld) that were reserved for sinners. Such punishment, from what I understand, was only temporary and not eternal. So yeah, I guess I do believe that I might be judged in some manner after my death, assuming of course that my ba is able to survive the death of my body. But I think you have to be a really really bad person in order to warrant that kind of punishment - as in Adolf Hitler or Charlie Manson. I don't think anybody really needs to worry about being punished for all eternity just because they're a different religion or they are attracted to members of the same gender or anything like that.

[Cunae]

I don't believe the Abrahamic ideas came from the pagan faiths. I think they go back much farther and are deeply engrained in the human psyche. When the pagans developed their ideas, they worked all of this into their beliefs (with their own twist)

I believe in judgment. Thanks to Christ, however, belief in a Saviour allows us to claim grace instead. Believing in Christ means living a life based on His example, so we don't have a license to run amok. I wish more Christians remembered that!

The Bible refers to being washed "whiter than snow" when once we were crimson, and our sins being as far from God's memory as the east is from the west. I think it's a beautiful concept and I believe it.

[Dumunzi]

Thanks for all the replies. :) You've all actually enlarged my view on this.

Also, I never meant that I believe we go to a good or bad place. Or that I know how we are judged. But I do believe we are judged. Some call it karma, in the sense of reincarnating, or some call it " What goes around, comes around, " etc.

[watersprite]

All of the Abrahamic religions believe in the final judgment. In these religions it typically means that when you die, you are judged for the things you've done, and that it also means there will be a day of reckoning when everything goes to crap, we all die, or are sent to the afterlife and collectively judged.

Now I do not believe in Armaggedon, revelations, or any of that non sense.

I do however believe that when I die the God and Goddess will judge me for the things I've done in my life.

Do you believe something similar? It's not something I hear talked about much in the Pagan community.

I think it really depends on your own personal path. As for me, If I am a good protector of the Earth, and a decent person in general, Gaia may let me come back and try to do better, or send me to the spiritual world to join my loved ones then do my next job.

[Xentor]

My path states that between incarnations, we surrender our experiences to a divine body of knowledge. Thereafter, we choose new incarnations with new or repeated challenges. Surely, in order to make choices that further our divine purpose, our experiences and gained knowledge must be examined. We will be doing some examining ourselves, and at some point Deity will be doing some, too. However, we do not believe in punishment for incarnate experiences: every experience furthers our purpose. The only thing we frown upon is a waste of good life by not furthering one's divine purpose. The punishment for that: rinse and repeat.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think in some ways we are not only judged against our life but also the path we chose while here.

Think about the Nordic concept of Vahalla and the chosing of the warriors to determine which hall they should reside in until the final battle was to occur. A train of though that runs in many older cultures and the division of their Hells or nether worlds and who can go to what area.

I do admit the original idea of Nirvana and obtainment of nothingness seems a bit different than most for it was to achieve the final state of nothing with no left over connections to life upon this planet. Yet even in that concept the idea of some sort of judgement was impossed.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Here is my version...

A wave is a wave with both a "spin up , spin down" possibility ,
until it is observed , judged , or weighed...

Then it has either a spin up , or spin down...heaven / hell ,
right / wrong...etc...

Personal reality occurs , along these lines , on other levels...IMO...

Therefore...The "last judgement" , on my part , shall be my last
weighing of my soul , my personal breaking through the dichotomy
into the next level of consciousness...where I shall observe without
judgement...

That is all...no judging gods , nor goddesses...no jury...

Then...when I am ready to return...Spin Down , Baby !

( or Spin Up ? )...LOL...( Exit...stage left ! )







All of the Abrahamic religions believe in the final judgment. In these religions it typically means that when you die, you are judged for the things you've done, and that it also means there will be a day of reckoning when everything goes to crap, we all die, or are sent to the afterlife and collectively judged.

Now I do not believe in Armaggedon, revelations, or any of that non sense.

I do however believe that when I die the God and Goddess will judge me for the things I've done in my life.

Do you believe something similar? It's not something I hear talked about much in the Pagan community.

[MetropolisGott]

I think it's more of a Theological question insofar as the Abrahamic paths go. From looking into the Bible and re-interpreting it from my latest experiences, weighing them against my experiences growing up Southern Baptist, I don't think it's a "final" judgment at all. A judgment perhaps, but not like what people think. In my personal path, it's more a question of "Divested of the body, are we ready to enter oneness with God?" Doing it's tough, by all means, but the sooner we start in our life on earth, the more we realize that we humans are so much more than just Bodies.

Those who let their Egos and bodies control them aren't any less worthy than others, they just aren't ready after one lifetime, that's all. I'm not claiming I'm going to be, but in many of the phrases connected to Hell & Hellfire...it says the fire itself is without fuel, and is eternal. It also said that when baptised, Christ will baptise us with Fire. Therefore, I think this hellfire may very well be another life on earth, simply putting us through the trials again until we "get it right". It's not a matter of what path you follow in my eyes, but rather how closely you acted in line with the ideal human state.

[Lyrien]

I believe we hand out our own self judgment. My beliefs are quite similar to what Xentor has stated.

I can not fathom a judgment day by one supreme deity that looks at one's life as black and white and casts judgments in such a manner. I view such concepts as a form of control, much like a parent trying to teach or control their children. "You better be good or you'll be sorry!"

[Phoenix Blue]

I don't believe there's a judgment. I believe that my life-path continues, more or less where I left off with regard to what I must do and what I must learn.

[kaosxmage]

The idea of a final Judgment grows from a basic desire to see people punished. Call one man's evil another's pleasure, and it becomes a task of what you believe. There's a lot of talk of different beliefs on nirvana, reincarnation, Valhalla, heaven, hell, becoming one with whatever, but forget all that for a moment.

Whatever your faith is determines the casual conversation, but what about Hitler? What about the guy who molested and killed 30 children? What of those people who commit what is generally accepted as vile acts? What happens to them? Were they living their purpose? Do you want them to be judged?

I think it might be just as likely that darker Gods could scoop up their heroes as the good guys do. Or, what if there is no afterlife? They just get away with their crimes against humanity? Bummer. Deep down, I think most people want what they perceive as evil to be punished.

Do I believe there awaits a final judgment on the years I spend living in this body? No. Yes. Sometimes.

Would I like to know child molesters as mentioned above suffer terribly for a good long while? Absolutely.

Much Love,

--Kaos :smoke:

[Darkest Eve]

Do you believe something similar? It's not something I hear talked about much in the Pagan community.

I'm not sure about a "final judgement," but I do think that you have to live with your choices - and their consequences - every day of your life. Sometimes that in and of itself is punishment or reward enough, IMO.

I'm not always happy with the choices I make, or the things I do, but I typically find a way to atone for them if I feel it is something that needs it. Some things are better left to heal on their own, and some need no explanation - the end result is answer enough. The good has outweighed the bad, and I have no problems sleeping at night... so a final judgement, if it is coming, isn't something I worry about. ;)

A life is the sum of its parts. If you learned something - or a lot of somethings - along the way, then I think you are doing what you're supposed to be doing. {Don't take that to mean that I think if you learn something from killing someone, for example, that it is necessarily right - that isn't what I mean.}

I think what someone else said about the desire for a final judgement is often a hope that those who have done "wrong" (in quotes, because "wrong" according to someone may not actually be "wrong") will find the punishment they may have escaped in this life in the next life or in the afterlife. That makes sense, at least to me....that desire to see another punished for something makes you hope that there is something in the end that grants that particular punishment.

I don't desire to see anyone punished in the afterlife or on "judgement day" or whatever for the things I didn't like/that weren't right/etc. that they may have committed against me or those that I love - but I have confidence that their "punishment" comes in the form of the consequences that they faced after their own actions and behaviors. No final judgement is necessary - their current or future situations will factor in the choices that they made, and their feelings and attitudes will be affected as a result. Just the fact that they have to live with themselves - either lacking something they wanted, or having to just look in the mirror every day and realize what they did - can be enough. Not necessarily karma, but just... life. It goes on and people have to deal with their own actions and behavior the same as I do. Knowing that is enough for me, without the promise or allure of any final judgement on the part of a greater being.

:lol: That makes it sound like I have great faith in justice... but really, at the end of the day... worrying about someone else's justified punishment for any real or imagined slight, isn't worth the worry for me at this point.

[RaheemsMusing]

I'm not so sure about a final judgment either. In my experience with the Abrahamic religions (and I just want to note ahead of time that some of my experiences, specifically with Christianity, were not good, by no fault of the religion itself, rather the people that I happened to have contact with, I am very aware that not all Christians behave in the way I have seen) it is the people passing the judgments on various events and deeds. I understand that some people do feel that it is their responsibility to carry these things out, but it has really resulted in me having some serious doubts about actual divine judgment or whether it is, in fact, just a concept that humans, being human, created to justify their own judgments. Here's to hoping that all made sense and isn't offensive, because I sincerely don't intend to be. That's just kind of the line of thinking I've developed after reflecting on some of my experiences, and I'm more than willing to admit that I'm probably very cynical about the "human factor." Anyway...seeing as I'm vaguely dedicated to Anpu, it's probably odd that I don't exactly believe in a final judgment or a punishment/reward to follow it up. I tend to lean towards the belief in karma and lessons which each soul must learn through their actions and various life times. Then again, I also tend to believe that an individual's belief shapes his or her fate in that aspect.

I'm just full of word vomit today. :hahugh:

[Shanti]

No.
There is no one that judges me except me and I have no plan to have some final judgment for myself since I am infinite so nothing is final.

[Xentor]

The idea of a final Judgment grows from a basic desire to see people punished.

(...) what about Hitler? What about the guy who molested and killed 30 children? What of those people who commit what is generally accepted as vile acts? What happens to them? Were they living their purpose? Do you want them to be judged?

(...) Would I like to know child molesters as mentioned above suffer terribly for a good long while? Absolutely.

Thought-provoking? OK, I'll bite:
Yes, I believe they were / are living their purpose.
No, I don't agree with their purpose.
Yes, I want them judged.
No, I don't expect my gods to do my dirty work: if I want someone judged I will do it myself, or get people around me to do it if they're better at it.

[~Belladonna~]

I think the concept of judgment is a human construct coming from the concept of right and wrong.

I don't think the universe has that concept. I think we have soul lessons that we come here to learn...either we do or don't learn it. I think that is the 'judgment' we recieve and I think it comes from our 'higher self', not "goddess/god"

Elise

Well said, Elise :thumbsup: I believe exactly the same :uhhuhuh: