Evil?

[Caelin]

I've been thinking about the problem of evil lately, and I've been trying to understand it in the context of pagan beliefs. Now, I believe that there is one divine principle who manifests in a duality - male/female, night/dark etc. I'm reluctant to say that good/evil is a part of that duality, though. I've been thinking more along the lines that, as the Gods are intrinsically of nature, that they too are neither good nor evil as nature is neither good nor evil. But that, as persons, they are both good and evil, as we are both good and evil and the world is both good and evil, at the same time.

I don't know whether that makes any sense, or whether it solves the problem of evil to say that the Gods participate in evil or not.

Any ideas?

-Caelin

[Tammy Sullivan]

I think that evil is a label we as humans tend to use to describe things that we don't understand or like.

[Raevyn]

In my mind the Gods transcend these labels. They are both and neither, since these are but human labels we each ascribe to things subjectively. A small example is a kitten - you might think it good because it's cute and fuzzy and sweet, meanwhile a mouse is going to think it evil. In reality the kitten is neither but can be both, and therefore is both (because after all, isn't whether you're "good" or "bad" largely in your intentions or your propensity to go one way or the other?).

I don't feel the Gods live by the rules of good and bad - it's like your buddy who chews with their mouth open and drives you nuts - they aren't being "good" or "evil" or even "nice" or "not nice", they just don't see how you could label their actions either way. Same way with the Gods - they might do things for amusement (*coff* Loki) but I don't think they consider their actions "evil", and I don't think on an objective level anything can be said to be "good" or "evil".

I guess I'm trying to say you're somewhat right (at least, imo), but that I think it's more then that they "participate in good and evil because everything is good and evil", and that good and evil are human constructs and God transcends them.

[Caelin]

I think whats partially got me confused is looking at ancient religions. Take Egypt for example. Now they evidently had a concept of evil - Seth himself, Seth assualting Horus sexually and physically, for example - but yet their "evil god" was also the slayer of evil and an intrinsic part of royal ideology.

It seems they could think of Seth as being evil and not-evil at the same time, but I dunno whether they thought Seth was beyond good and evil, as they don't seem to have written about him that way. Maybe he's just both beyond and within such definitions, if we're really going to go for and/and thinking!

Whether that solves the problem of evil, though, to admit that evil is necessary in the world to provide completeness or not, I don't know. Perhaps we've been going at it the wrong way, trying to justify the existence of evil by reference to God/Gods, when we should have been saying "evil simply is."?

Confused now...

[Raevyn]

Seth isn't a God of evil, though some would see him that way, IMO. Seth is chaos, and the goal in Kemet was ma'at - that is, universal harmony, justice, truth, that sort of thing (a satisfactory english term doesn't exist so I'm trying to give you an idea of what it is). Ma'at is "the right way", but it isn't "good". If you were to ask a devotee of Seth they would have a different idea of who he is then you might imagine, I think. It would also depend on what translation or idea of Seth you're looking at.

Even in Wiccan sabbats, one is thought to represent the new God slaying the old, or the year king being sacrificed for the crops. This wasn't "evil", and the year king or god each year knows his fate. In an abstract way I think Osiris' murder had to be - it was representative of a part of life, and even his wife after impregnating herself by him recognized that and let him go so she could raise Horus.

[Mnemosyne]

It depends on how you define "evil." Sometimes the gods and goddesses do things that might not be considered "appropriate." For example, the gods themselves did not always get along with one another. Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena fought over who should receive the sought after apple from Paris. Zeus would often cheat on his wife, Hera. Although divine, these gods and goddesses can cause quite a commotion. Do these feisty qualities make them "evil?" I don't think so. These are myths; these myths teach us how to lead our lives and better ourselves. In addition, these gods need each other. They balance each other off. While one god may represent rationality and order, another god may represent the irrational and trickery. We need all these gods to bring balance to the pantheon.