Upcoming movie about the crucial turning point years of Adolf Hitler's life starring

[Alaiyo]

John Cusack is starring in an upcoming movie about Hitler as a young man after the first World War. It will be released in December but unliike a lot of John's work lately this movie done not have the Hollywood machine behind it. In fact, he took no salary because funding for this movie was hard to come by because of it's subject matter which presents an almost empathetic portrait of Hitler. many in the film community are reportedley upset at Hitler getting this treatment.

The article:

(http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/int/2002/09/09/cusack/index.html).

Thoughts?

[MammaStar]

Well, er, it sounds interesting but I agree with the people quoted, I don't think I want to see Hitler humanized, ya know.

[Danustouch]

I couldn't agree more. I don't want to feel ANY sympathy for Hitler.

[Phoenix Blue]

Heh, it's easier to think of someone as a villian when you don't know anything but propaganda. After all, that's how Hitler got away with the Final Solution in the first place.

It's ironic, the set of circumstances by which history can repeat itself.

[Caelin]

Originally posted by LdyStarlite
Well, er, it sounds interesting but I agree with the people quoted, I don't think I want to see Hitler humanized, ya know.

Hmm, I don't know. I disagree, I think. Its important we realise that Hitler was a man, was human just like the rest of us, otherwise we can consign the holocaust to a back space in our minds, and forget about it thinking it was an event which could never be repeated because another Hitler could not arise.

We need to understand why the holocaust happened, otherwise it could happen again, to another group of people.

[SerenityMoon]

i completely agree with Caeline. I"m always fascinated, completely fascinated with the holocause and what hitler was thinking. where did he get his ideas...how did he think...was the way he was raised have anythign to do with it..and et cetera.
I think Hitler was a brilliant man, but I think he corrupted that brilliance. I would find that kind of movie enjoyable.

[flar7]

since I dont get to the theaters much, I would have to wait and
rent it. But I would. Is better to look at the causes and see
ways to avoid them in the future, than ignore them and not
recognize them later in life.

[Psyche Ague]

I think it would be interesting to see "the other side" of the story of how someone could become that fanatical about a cause the way he did. I already know how it happened politically...now I'd like to know what happened psychologically and in the real world.

[Djiril]

I will definetly try to see this movie. One of my goals in life is to understand Hitler and others like him. I never quite understood the attitude of not wanting to see the human face of horrible people. What are people afraid of?

[MammaStar]

Personally, I'm NOT AFRAID. I'm intrigued by this movie, for one reason, and it's a dopey reason, but a reason. Cusack. I LOVE John Cusack. I admire all his work. He's 100% behind this film. I read the article. It SOUNDS interesting. For me, (and me only) in my little world, I like to go on disliking people such as Hitler and Osama and thinking of them as "non-human". Why? because I can't understand why another human would want to wipe out another fellow human because they look, think, act, believe differently.

Now, having just typed that...maybe I SHOULD see the movie to understand better. I don't know.

I do know that this movie, good, bad or indifferent (and I have a sneaky suspicion it's going to be a well done movie) there's going to be TONS of controversy.

[WandererInGray]

" -- and by showing us that evil does not simply crawl from the shadows, but emerges through circumstances and choices."

That's probably the most powerful statement for the film in that article. And a good thing to think about in terms of our own actions in this world.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Some excellent points have been made here. The thinking behind many of them and the quest for understanding what makes some people tick is what often drives me to the crime sites I read. Often I read things that will give me nightmares but I go on reading it. There is a big part of me that thinks the more I know the better I can protect my family. The same applies to Hitler the better I understand him the better I can see that pattern emerging again.

[Illuminatus]

I can't stop thinking of "The Producers".... that movie/show is so funny... It's about two scam artists who are trying to make a flop show so they can abscond with money they fradulently raised to put the show on in the first place... anyway, the play they finally decide is the worst is called "Springtime for Hitler"... it's hilarious!

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by WandererInGray
That's probably the most powerful statement for the film in that article. And a good thing to think about in terms of our own actions in this world.

I must agree. It's a very educational and enlightening experience to see the human face on "monsters", to see what motivates and contributes to behaviour in others and ourselves.

[Alaiyo]

I will definitely see the film if I had not already said as much. One reason is one that was stated by someone earlier: I too love John Cusack. I first liked him in Better Off dead but fell in love like many others as a kid watching "Say Anything." One of my best birthday gifts was to receive that videotape. I have seen his other work since then and he makes interesting choices and doesn't always give into the "Hollywood" hype. more importantly to me at least, he manages to employ members of his family when he can, such as sisters Ann and Joan and some of his pals.

I sometimes think in regards to Hitler and "humanizing him" that people tend to forget that the monster that he was, he didn't act alone. As someone once told me, "a dictator is only as good as the people that he oppresses." Hitler was charismatic and passionate and really bad but to accomplish what the Nazis did he needed people with other expertise that he did not have, particulary militarily. So yes he was a monster but he wasn't the only one and what I've always found more disturbing than Hitler was that "regular" Germans supported him and committed a lot of the atrocities that happened during that time and continue to happen on a smaller scale by the Neo-Nazis. In my mind it didn't have to be Adolf Hitler, it could have been Hans Brinker with the same ideology and these things still would have happened.

What would come from a movie such as this is how such a gradual evolution came about for Hitler of course but also many of the Germans that would carry out his grand design. Many have looked at the other side of those who carried out the Burning Times (best example, Arthur Miller's "The Crucible") to try and understand what would make people do what they did. Racism and slavery in American has been looked at from both sides. Again you are talking about what was a sign of privilege
metamophing into a way of life for many people and a thought process based on a very irratiopnal fear that still pervades to this day in many ways.

Just because we see the man behind the mask doesn't mean that we ignore what he did. It means that we know better how to head him or her off at the pass the best that we can.

And yes, the scene in the movie "The Producers" where they perform the big musical number "Springtime for Hitler and Germany" was insane. I liked the audience reaction the best. I haven't see the stage version so I don't know how they handled that part because the reaction was the funniest part of that bit. Mel Brooks who is unapoloegtically Jewish is equally unapologetic about this work. If you have ever seen the making of the Producers on PBS he has told stories about certain responses that he got for that work and how he dealt with them in his "Mel Brooksian" way.

I think if people take away one sentiment from the article it is to at least see the movie first before you condemn it. I am always surprised at the money that will be thrown away on truly bad films--and I'm not talking about things that are rightfully just entertainment. But something comes along to challenge a person and maybe make you see things in another light and people will stay away. I guess that's life in the film biz.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. Often we don't realize the path we are on till we have been there for a while and each person deals with trama different ways. As a person of Jewish decent I hate what Hitler did but understanding him and his motivations is important to me personally. I can not change the past but if I can understand what caused things perhaps in my small way I can help to keep things from occuring again.

[flar7]

well said.:)

[Garnet]

I'm torn by this. Having been Jewish for many years & having been to Auschwitz, I don't want Hitler to be humanized. I don't think he could be. But I am curious as to how any one could even attempt to humanize such a monster.
I'll probably take the 'chicken path' on this one, like I did with that updating of Jesus' life the Catholics were protesting about 15 or so years ago...I'll go to a rental place during a slow period, rush it to the counter when no other customers are there, stick it in my purse right away, & run out.

[Arzhela]

This is a difficult issue. I had an incredibly long post written out and decided not to post it, for various reasons. I, personally, would want to see this film, if (and only if) this is really the product of a lot of research and they're really trying to present Hitler as accurately as possible. It sounds both interesting and, also, important. If we're ever to truly put the Holocaust behind us(note: NOT forget, NOT trivialize, but put behind), which is absolutely 100% neccessary to keep it from something like that happening again, it's important to look at it objectively and see how it happened.

[Djiril]

Personally I have a great deal of compassion for Hitler. I see no point in dehumanizing him or being angry at him now that he's dead.
It's not that I don't understand the horrible things he did. He is the reason I don't have any family left in Europe. Reading "Night" by Elie Wiesel triggered several years of chronic depression for me.
I just feel very strongly that I need to forgive him. When I forgive him he is nothing but a pathetic little human who got some power, but if I don't he reaches almost godlike status in my mind. Monsters are cool and freaky, but humans are just humans.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Ellie Wiessel is great he always brings things to vivid view in one's mind

[Sequoia]

I'd like to go see it. Hitler did a horrible, horrible thing, and history should never forget that. But it would be fascinating to see why he did this. We may never truely know, for certain. But even the smallest insight could be useful, and certainly food for thought.

I just hope it's historically accurate, and not some bs hollywood drool.

[Emerald Oak]

Three interesting points to consider:

1) One of the main reasons Hitler did the things he did was to keep Germany from collapsing after the war. The quickest and most effective way to do that was to blame everyone else and take all THEIR resources... That's probably why concentration camps sprung up, rather than just placing everyone under house arrest.

2) Hitler was shocked to learn of the conditions in the concentration camps. He had nothing to do with people dying constantly, just with imprisoning them and such. If you've ever seen "Schindler's List," you'll notice that Hitler never made an appearance in those camps, nor was his name mentioned (atleast, to the best of my knowledge). All Hitler did was fuel the fire, just like our past presidents (and even current president) have done.

3) How did Hitler die? He committed double suicide with his wife. That's right, SUICIDE. We didn't kill him, he killed himself, which only proves his humanity even further.


Reviewing these little factoids, it makes it hard to call him a monster without coming off as ignorant or hypocritical. Of course, there's probably a lot more to this story that I don't know, but I still believe that calling him or Bin Laden a "monster" or "evil" is hypocritical and just plain dumb.

[Azure]

Hitler may not have visited the camps, but he knew what was going on there. He committed suicide because he was more frightened of what would happen to him after the Russians, who were descending on Berlin at the time, would do to him than of dying the way he did. He left instructions that his body be destroyed so that it couldn't be identified. Recent Russian evidence, revealed after the fall of the USSR revealed that he may have murdered one or more or his body doubles as well, to use their corpses to distract the Russian army from finding his own.

Hitler did restore his country economically - but the cost in the long run - seven years of war and destruction, which he began himself with his pre-emptive take-overs of Austria, Poland and Czechoslovakia - made the short term recovery hardly worth it.
And The United States was pretty decimated economically in the early thirties, and FDR didn't use the same tactics.

HItler was absolutely monstrous. But make no mistake, he was a human being - he was not a demon or a supernatural villain, but the product of his situation and the failure of his conscience.

It is easy to make him seem non-human, but it is vital to remember that he absolutely was, and that is why this movie is important. He didn't become what he was because the devil made him do it. He chose his path.

And if we don't look at the fact that people chose these things, and other people, like the many, many leaders of German business who supported him and essentially bought his election in 1933 chose to overlook the vile parts of his character in hopes of making personal profits, then we overlook something vital.

Hitler couldn't have been what he was in a vaccuum. And if you look at how blindly people bought into his rhetoric it should scare you. And it should be a lesson that the blind acceptance of rhetoric in any form is likely to create a bigger misunderstanding of any given situation than anything else.

So keeping Hitler as some sort of preternatural monster is, to my mind, a mistake. He was a man who went horribly, sickly wrong, and not only 6 million victims of the concentration camps paid the price, but more than 30 million soldiers and civilians in Europe during WWII.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Remember too that the United States also had concentration camps for Asian Americans. Yes we treated them better than the
Germans did the jews but we still stole from them blatently ignored thier rights and have yet to reimburse all of the families. It is a matter of who is in charge and what the people will believe. :( The only thing about that I am pleased about is that at least we weren't killing them off.

[Garnet]

This is going to be a tirade. I apologize in advance.

The first concentration camps were built to imprison Communists & 'enemies of the Reich'.

No, Hitler never did go to any of the concentration/extermination camps. Roosevelt never went to any of the internment camps that Asian Americans were sent to. Presidents don't go to Indian reservations where the conditions are utterly appalling. Slobodovich (sp) never visited any of the camps where Bosnian Muslims were tortured. That might get out to the public & generate bad press & upset liberals like me who think these things are wrong.
But, having been to Auschwitz, there is absolutely NO WAY I can force myself to believe that Hitler was shocked by the conditions of the camp. While many camps were in remote locations, Auschwitz was in town. You can walk to it from the train station. (See the map at www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/ The site is in English as well as Polish & German)
The commandant of Dachau used to make prisoners wheel carts full of dead inmates through town as a warning to local people. (See the pictures at www.nizkor.org )
Get a copy of 'Shoah' the documentary by Claude Lanzmann. It was made in the 1980s in Europe & Isreal, but mostly in & around some of the camps. He interviewed former Nazis, camp survivors, & people who lived near the camps. He used no archival footage. The locals talked about how they'd stand next to the tracks to signal to the people packed into boxcars, by slashing fingers across their throats, to let 'travelers' know what would happen to them. They said that the scent of burning bodies could be smelled miles away from the camps.
Roosevelt was told what was going on there, yet Hitler was shocked by what was going on his own Reich? He may have pretended to be clueless (the same tactic Slodobovich is using now) but there is no way I can force myself to believe that Hitler didn't know exactly what was going on. He was in charge, & no operation can be carried out on that scale without the 'top guy' knowing about it. After all, not only Jews were put to death at the extermination camps. Hitler wanted to wipe out Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, etc. & even his own people who had 'genetic defects' such as asthma. (see www.holocaustforgotten.com)

Hitler knew.

[Emerald Oak]

Wow, that's quite a passionate response, and makes a lot of sense, too. Guess that's what I get for believeing my High School History teacher :bug:

Azure: I think one of those "body doubles" was his wife, but then again, I got that info from my history teacher as well, so who knows?

[Alaiyo]

First of all, it won't be Hollywood drool since Hollywood are staying as far away from it as they can. Speilberg won't touch it.

I think the reason why a person like Hitler is set up as being so superhuman or unhuman is to deflect the fact that any person has the potential capacity to orchestrate what he did and many have.By not acknowledging that, we do ourselves a disservice. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao (depending on which side of the Communist fence you were on) , to name a few were guys who did not come from fantastic wealth like Osama bin laden. These were guys who worked their way through the system and took over said system at the first opportunity and reshaped it into their world order.

That was why the incidents of school shootings were so difficult to comprehend because the kids who perpetrated them at least on the surface, seemed to be just like the kids next door...

[Yvonne Belisle]

I beleive Hitler knew what was happening and he had to have oked it as well there is no way they could have done that without his knowledge. I think he also knew about the medical experiments done on the people in them. Due to the fact we have kids on this board including my own I will say if you want to know about them that you can research them on the net. I just hope you have a really strong stomach. I am just pointing out that to a lesser degree America did the same thing and the things we have done to prisoners in our prison system and our mental health system in the past are not that far behind what the germans did while Hitler was in power. Also remember that many of the american people knew about the institutions and prisons and were glad things were being tested on the inmates. The germans that believed the propiganda honestly thought they were making the world a better place. They were led to that belief by the skillful manipulation of words and events by people like Hitler. Then later threw fear. I truely want to know what makes a person like him tick. I want my children to know as well so that they can help gaurd against people like that in the future. If the past is forgotten then it tends to be repeated. IF we only know the results but not the causes we can not watch for them to be repeated and I think this world has had enough of them and needs no more like him.

[Yvonne Belisle]

By the way it is my understanding that some chemical weapons were tested on small groups of the incarcerated Japanese in the US that could be mistaken but I heard that as a child from someone who had been in the camps.

[Azure]

Yes, Hitler's wife, Eva Braun commited suicide with him, - they apparently both took poison, then he shot himself to make sure he was going to really truly die.

[WandererInGray]

Um...there's a HUGE difference between the German concentration camps and the detention camps that german and asian americans were put into in the US.

I'm not saying the US camps were a good idea, but at the time they were for the misguided protection of national security....not for the SPECIFIC purpose of exterminating an entire race of people.

Again, the US camps were abhorrent, but in no way comparable to the concentration camps in Germany.

[st0rm]

well it was a difference between german camps too.. some were work camps there ppl were treated almost humanly, they got food and stuff.. others were death camps..

But from what ive heard the russian camps were much wors, and they too prosecuted jews and and non communists, the us knew but because russia were allied with then they did nothing... hmmm, nice morals

[Alaiyo]

Originally posted by st0rm
well it was a difference between german camps too.. some were work camps there ppl were treated almost humanly, they got food and stuff.. others were death camps..


The case for that is the one ofd Anne Frank. Some say that had she and her sister remained at Auschwitz they would have had more of a chance than at Bergen-Belsen where food, sanitation and order were none existent. She might not have caught the disease that killed her and at least she would have had her mother.

As far as the difference between the German camps and the US camps for the Japanese (Americans, I might also add), the fact is that both were in the wrong and the US saying that they did it for national security doesn't really mitigate it.

WE were also at war with Germany and Italy. I don't recall the government going into say, Brooklyn or Milwaukee or any other major US city and taking lots of German and Italians into protective custody. You also have to remember what times were are talking about. Asians were not exactly always welcomed with open arms before the war in this country. It didn't take much for many people to turn a blind eye to something like that action. And what the government didn't do with internment, private citizens did with harrasment and lynching.

You can argue that they were US citizens but guess what--so were many of the Japanese that were intened. The bulk of the Japanese that were place into protective custody were nisei or first generation American born citizens. I know that people with German sounding names didn't exactly have a easy time during and after the war and if the klan were around, they really didn't have an easy time of it.

Both camps destroyed lives--albeit in different ways. The people who were interned in Manzanar and other places often lost their homes and businesses and were not welcomed even after the war with open arms for a long time. Many of the Issei or the first generation that immigrated to the US and the nisei who were soldiers suffered from deep depression and alcoholism. Some committed suicide. Family members took their pain about many things out on each other. In my eyes, a spiritual death is no better than regular death. Both examples pose a lesson to us.

The US camps are way in which the Germans camps usually begin.

[SerenityMoon]

*applaudes* VERY well said, Alaiyo...

[Phoenix Blue]

On the flip side, the Japanese-Americans who were in the internment camps do have a lot to be thankful for. The camps weren't exactly the Hilton--but the internees received much better treatment than our prisoners of war who were held by Emperor Hirohito's forces. And of course most interred Japanese-Americans survived their ordeals, whereas about six million Jews didn't.

If you haven't been to the German death camps, or if you haven't seen footage of the remains--and the survivors--left at the concentration camps when the Germans fled before the advancing Allied forces. . . don't even try to make the comparison. One was wrong, but at least somewhat humane; the other was just plain evil.

Edit

Many of the folks who fought in Vietnam were treated to the same scorn when they returned home, as Japanese-Americans were after they were released from the camps. Maybe worse, for them--they'd survived their few years of hell, endured trauma that we can only imagine, without any choice in the matter. And when they come home, they're called baby-killers and left to rot. More recently, a lot of Arabs received the same treatment, both during the Persian Gulf conflict and shortly after the 11 September attack.

This sort of treatment is despicable, but it happens during wartime. It's plain and simple prejudice, and is a dynamic of any society. That doesn't make it right, but it certainly doesn't make Japanese-Americans the only group to have suffered at the hands of the majority.