dog skin

[st0rm]

Ive just watched a german documentary about leather and fur products, guess what.
Many leather and fur products is from dogs that are brutaly slaughterd in asia, sold under names like "special leather" and "chinese wolf". Im both furios and disgusted right now, they showed dogs being skinned alive, small puppies.. It took several minutes and they started to pull the skin of the dog before it was dead, they just ripped the skin right of it.

Many big clothes companies uses dog fur and leather....

[flar7]

most animals that are "skinned" are skinned alive.

[st0rm]

never knew that, but the thing was that they wasnt even clubbed.. the dog was whimpering and there was blod everywhere... they tied it with steelwire to a fence and basicly started pulling, they skinned about fifty to seventy dogs every night...

[flar7]

yep.
the way animals are skinned that I know of...(saw on documentary about fur bearing animals)

their front feet are wired to an immoveable object, and they
usually start at the neck and pull back, sometimes starting at
the front feet at the same time. The animal is conscious and in
great pain. They keep it stretched taught while they do this.
Very cruel.

[Annika]

That is so depressing!!! I wonder why they must have the animal alive when being skinnned?? What purpose is there for that sort of cruelty????

[Tammy Sullivan]

I think I'm gonna be sick

[Arzhela]

Ditto as Greta said. I feel nauseous. That has got to be the most disgusting and horrifying thing I have ever heard of.

[Old Witch]

I don't want to deal with this...............

[Psyche Ague]

I had no idea it was that awful. I don't even know what I thought they did to them. I can't even sit here and believe that. It's too horrifying.

Why don't they at least kill them before they do it?

[SerenityMoon]

...what i want to know is why they showed this on television?! dear gods, that's sickening.
>.<

[flar7]

Originally posted by SerenityMoon
...what i want to know is why they showed this on television?! dear gods, that's sickening.
>.<

to inform people so that they would stand up to the fur trade.

[SerenityMoon]

*ponders* good point, Flar7....that's just sick tho >.< I could never wear fur or anything like that..i don't even own real leather...that's just..ugh..skinning an animal alive like that...

[Flaire-FireStar]

I agree. They should at least put the animal down first, THEN skin it. I think that's absolutely disgusting to skin an animal ALIVE, and put it through so much pain.


:mad:

[Gwion]

Anyone who would do such a thing should be skinned alive and dropped in a pit of salt.

[materra]

Okay, hold up here folks, just a second... just so you know...
Some of these films are not accurately documenting the whole picture... Okay? Big breath, and please hear me out. I am not saying this is right, but there are more sides than you know at this moment.

All peoples who raise fur animals do not skin them alive. I cannot have you all believe everyone who has ever trapped animals for fur or raised them has done this. It isn't true. And you need to know those that do are really looked down upon and not considered decent. (this is a family thread okay.)

For many years both native peoples, settlers, and folks in other lands trapped for both fur and food. Throughout the 50's and 60's, even now fur ranchs raised mink, fox and other fur bearing animals for making things like people raise cattle etc. I grew up on a mink ranch, we never did the things they have shown in these films. NEVER. All the animals were deceased when worked on, all of them. I have heard about some film footage like you are talking about , but I have to tell you, some of it is actually done for money paid by the film companies. They asked them to do this for their films... now that is sick...and a lie. I am not saying this never happens... just that you concider a bit more information.

While it may not be to your liking, or be supported in your beliefs, back then it was a way for folks who were damned poor to make a living in areas where the only other income came from logging, mining and tourism. And that is still the case in parts of the US even now...no doubt in other countries as well.

Please believe we respected the animals from who we made that living. We did every thing we could to provide good care, as people still do who raise cattle and sheep and other animals for sale now. We also tried to respect the environment they lived in and never "trapped out" and area.

No it is not ideal, but everyone who ever trapped to feed their kids, or themselves is not a monster. I think it was alot more cruel to let the children starve, or grow up malnourished. I can remember when household after household only had venison and Government comodities (food the govenment had stored for disasters that needed to be eaten or go bad) to eat for the children.

So, please, before you say all peoples, remember this... unless you are there and have evidence for yourself don't say all or everyone. Just the ones you saw filmed.

[Élistariel]

:flamer: *nearly pissed beyond words*
I have no problem with leather, it's how they get it. For example cows. They're raised for milk and meat, that's fine, and why not use their hide? But what the show mentions is horrid. There is no need for the animal to be alive. If they must skin them, they should kill them first, so what if they 'damage' the hide.

[st0rm]

they transported the dogs in sacks, in the trunk of busses.... It was awfull, but im not saying that every fur farmer does this...

[Tammy Sullivan]

Materra,
Thank you for posting on this topic. It does ease my mind somewhat that it is not a common practice to skin animals alive. But even once is enough to make me sick. I don't know how to explain it really, it just hurts my heart.

[shnen]

I jsut have one question...

why do they do it while they are alive?

thats all I can muster up between thinking I am going to throw up and actually going over there and beating the $%#^ out of them! :mad:

[Faery-Wings]

Ugh. :( That is just cruel and horrible beyond belief. I want to go back to my little world that thinks hamburgers come from Shop Rite and shoes from Macy's (Actually I get most of my shoes from Payless, but that defeats the point *weak smile*).

Materra, thank you so much for your post. It eases my mind that not everyone is like that shown in the documentary.

[materra]

What this film shows is cruel beyond believe. When I first heard about the importation of the stuffed toys made with "real" fur and saw them, I knew immediately what I was looking at. I can not tell you how sick it made me. And to hear about this and other films of the horror...I don't know how people can live with themselves.

[Sowelu]

I just read this thread for the first time. It brakes my heart. What is frusterating is that I am here, and cannot do anything about it.
I am glad I didn't see it on t.v., it would have upset me for a very long time. I love all animals, and this is just heartwrenching.:mad:

[FlamedLilly]

I come from a ranching background, and have also raised rabbits myself. So I feel that I have at least a little experience with what is going on here.

First, the only reason I can see that they would keep the animals alive is cost. Which to me is the worst reason you could have to do something like that.

Second, these people are very few and far between. Remember these animals are their livelihood (sp) and they are treated better then most of the owners children. At least that's the way it was with the ranchers that I knew. THe animal coughed it was taken to a vet. the kids coughed and they spent 5.00 on cough syrup. During the processing of animals, they are treated in a manner as to do the least amount of damage to them as possible. People want to get as much money from the animal as possible so the less damage the more the carcass is worth. When an animal is raised for their fur or hide, the meat is still sold as well, you can't just leave it to rot on the floor.

There is always a way to help these animals. Always do your research into what companies are doing. You can always write a letter to the company and ask them what their methods are. Obtain public records on their practices etc. IF you find something about a compnay or product that you don't like don't buy, Money always talks to coporations.

[Gwion]

>it was a way for folks who were damned poor to make a living in areas where the only other income came from logging, mining and tourism<

I've heard the same lame argument used to defend tobacco and coca farmers.

[st0rm]

flamedlilly, thoose chinamen in the documentary had a little room packed with dogs it was bleow -13c in the room. The sick dogs were threwn out, so that they wouldnt infect the other dogs.
And they killed about a truckload of dogs every night....

truly disgusthing...

[st0rm]

the china man also said that a skin was sold at about 25cents.. try raising a dog for less then 25cents...

[flar7]

that was gonna be my other point.....this is mainly done in other
countries. In the U.S. we have law pertaining to how you may
treat, kill, and prepare animals for slaughter and such. Most
fur and leather products are imported, why? because its cheaper.
Why is it cheaper? Because these other countries dont worry
about being nice in how they do things, cheap and fast is their
motto.

[st0rm]

yup...

[Raydreamer]

what are people coming to? they don't even have the decency to discontinue the animals life before using their skins? is nothing sacred? I had no idea most animals were still concious!!
They're living creatures....not inanimate objects. Surely they should at least respect this creature who resources their using!?!??

[st0rm]

:(

[FlamedLilly]

Ok like I ended my statement with. Do your research, money talks more then anything anyone can say. Unfortunatly that's the way business works. If you stop buying those products then they will have to search for other ways to get your business.

Either that or go to what ever area this is being done in and do research their into their legal system. Maybe there are laws and it just needs to be brough into the light, or maybe there aren't any laws and you need to lobby to get them passed.

[flar7]

Originally posted by FlamedLilly
Ok like I ended my statement with. Do your research, money talks more then anything anyone can say. Unfortunatly that's the way business works. If you stop buying those products then they will have to search for other ways to get your business.

Either that or go to what ever area this is being done in and do research their into their legal system. Maybe there are laws and it just needs to be brough into the light, or maybe there aren't any laws and you need to lobby to get them passed.

some countries, like china, may not appreciate your visit.

[Raydreamer]

originally posted by flar7
------------
some countries, like china, may not appreciate your visit.
-------------


this is true huh? but then you can question their motives for not allowing you the access to these kinds of things. If they won't let you investigate....you can ask yourself and the rest of the world
"what have they got to hide?"
Maybe this will make people sit up and take notice.


*-------------------------------------*
Laughter is the closest distance between two people.

[Tiana_Ecarias]

I can understand why you'd be pissed and grosses out, I would be(and am).

That's why when I buy ANY thing leather, I make sure it says 100% cow or sheep leather, nothing else.

Tiana_Ecarias

[Tiana_Ecarias]

I wonder what happened to the dog carcass after it was skinned? Did they eat it, throw it away, turn it into pet food?

It's terrible what those poor dogs went through, but to have their carcass waisted(as sick as that sounds) makes it even worse.

Tiana_Ecarias

[Emerald Oak]

This is all POV. We only see this as cruel and awful because it's happening to animals.

But, try looking at it from a different point of view, like flar said. We're in the middle of a war, and I'm sure some crazy cruel things are happening to people, both done by the enemy AND by us. If you saw this documentary on the news, don't take it so seriously... Journalists ALWAYS exxaggerate. Remember the big shark scare last year? Wanna know the grand total of shark attacks ass opposed to the year before?

TWO more attacks than the year before. That's all.

I doubt that everything the media says about fur trading is true, they're just going for ratings. In a way, they're just as conceited as the fur traders themselves.

[Gwion]

Originally posted by Emerald Oak
shark attacks ass

Owie

[Raydreamer]

Extra! Extra! Read All About It!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Emerald Oak
shark attacks ass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Owie


_______________



LOL :)

[st0rm]

swedish tv isnt as commercialized as american... and btw. men can often choose to go to war or not, animals dont have that choice....

[Sowelu]

Alot of good points here.....but still, it's just plain out Cruel!:flamer:

[SerenityMoon]

st0rm: not if they're drafted!
*shudder* i still just think it's awful. i'm sure most fur trades are done a little more humanely, but i still will have nothing to do with fur products....ugh.i can't even TOUCH fur in stores without tearing up.

[Tammy Sullivan]

Originally posted by Emerald Oak


I doubt that everything the media says about fur trading is true, they're just going for ratings. In a way, they're just as conceited as the fur traders themselves.
They may be adding fuel to the fire, but it does seem to be alot of this type of footage floating about. The story had to originate somewhere......and the deeds were done as the film plainly shows. If it was for ratings for profit or fur for profit makes no difference to me.

[Skye]

Whoa, how cruel.

:(

[SerenityMoon]

i'm in total agreement, Greta...

[Gwion]

A woman is buying a fur coat, and the salesman says:
"Would Madam care to buy insurance with that?"

"What for?"

"In case you're spat upon."

When animals are raised for fur, the usual method of killing is anal electrocution, so as not to spoil the pelt. Think about that the next time you see someone wearing fur. Spitting is just not my style. I'd be more likely to shove them into a mud puddle.

[materra]

I have never in my life heard of such a thing as this, nor seen it when I was younger. We simple broke the necks. Not fancy but it works, and is instantanteous. We did that with small game for food when we snared them. What an awful concept... where did you ever hear this? I will grant you I haven't been anywhere near a mink ranch since the early 60's, nor hunted for food since the early 80's but this sounds unreal.

[Gwion]

http://www.cnn.com/US/9902/04/fur.warning/

[SerenityMoon]

it's about time. hellz yeah. i hope it passes.