Do illicit drugs play a role on your path? [Archive] - MysticWicks Online Pagan Community and Spiritual Sanctuary

Modesty

January 3rd, 2009, 04:00 AM

Nox_Mortus

January 3rd, 2009, 04:56 AM

Yes, usually for meditation and trance type exercises, I don't like to use them working magic though.

Cindlady2

January 3rd, 2009, 06:15 AM

I have for specific purposes. For general magic I prefer to be "clean". I think it largely depends on what you are trying to do.

Rudas Starblaze

January 3rd, 2009, 07:10 AM

i would have to agree with PB on this.

also on Modesty's post, yes, i think alot of the book authors who wrote under the influence of drugs were just hallucinations of their own imaginations and they have did a wonderful job of turning withcraft into the modern day movie magic nonsense with stuff that has nothing to due reality. but hey, it makes for great entertainment. lol

myself, i am anti (illegal) drug. but as ive said here on MW several times, ive seen the effects of even the "harmless" drugs due to working in mental health.

Infinite Grey

January 3rd, 2009, 10:09 AM

I can only buy into religion while under the influence of illicit drugs... hell I became a god once while UTI; awww my beloved rave cult, I wish I could remember you.

Brightshores

January 3rd, 2009, 10:22 AM

It's not a part of my path. I've seen too many lives destroyed by drugs and alcohol to have any wish to incorporate them into my spirituality.

Caitlin.ann

January 3rd, 2009, 10:52 AM

Drugs don't play any part in my path whatsoever.

Cloaked Raven

January 3rd, 2009, 10:55 AM

Nope. I feel mind-altering drugs take the mind further away from the Divine, not closer.
My thoughts exactly, PB.

Caitlin.ann

January 3rd, 2009, 11:06 AM

In my opinion your path is meant to benefit you. If I started taking illicit drugs as a part of my path, it would then become a liability, the opposite of what it would be.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 11:09 AM

One...I refuse to recognize any laws , making substances illegal...

Two...I sure have , in my time...

Do note the second part of my link here...past experiences !

Three...They definitely served the purpose I utilized them for...

Four...never felt alienated from anyone , or anything...

So...Absolutely , and I thoroughly enjoyed my time...

Both in sacred ceremony...and ritual...

As well for other purposes listed in my link...

http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3616608&postcount=6

Malcolm

January 3rd, 2009, 11:13 AM

Yes, when I was younger. As for it taking you further away from the divine, I think that really depends on what kind of divinity you are trying to get closer with.

HetHert

January 3rd, 2009, 11:28 AM

...and if they weren't illicit or illegal? If they were au natural in the world (left without indication of negativity) would the opinion change?

Personally I've done the peyote trip in the desert and it was quite beautiful and profound. I have done LSD for both recreation and mind expanding/bending/exploding/imploding/growing experiences. I have done quite a bit in search of experiences. Good and bad. It is from this perspective that allows me to understand the differences in experience sans the aid/tool/catalyst for the experience of elevation. I have had just as many profound experiences without the aid.

IMO, the brain is not who you are and it is not the vehicle for delivering your experience of "Diety", the Divine, or God. You're innate intelligence of being. The spirit of who you are gets you there.

Since I don't believe that it is through the physcial mind ( a hopeless noodle of chemical reactions) that we reach God the only thing these tools did was retool the chemical reactions in the brain allowing for altered perceptions. Reality after all is a state of mind. It didn't permenantly alter who I am or change my relationship to Diety. It opened previously unseen sights and experiences.

I don't prescribe my experiences to anyone else. I am meerly stating that my experiences were still quite profound and engaging.

Many many cultures have engaged in taking hallucinagens for altered states.

Caitlin.ann

January 3rd, 2009, 12:57 PM

Glowy

January 3rd, 2009, 01:01 PM

No- they are not part of my path.

Trithemius

January 3rd, 2009, 01:06 PM

Nope. I don't touch them, never have.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 01:35 PM

For me its a matter of:

Will it cost me my job? Yes
How will I get it? No clue
Where? No clue
Is it worth sneaking around with? No
Are there other ways to reach the divine? Yes
Will using illegal substances ultimately stop me from reaching certain goals? Yes
Are there additional negative consequences? Likely

So for me, tis not worth it.

And I affirm you in your choice , as it is yours , SacredSin...

For me , HetHert , and others , we would perhaps answer those
differently...My answers ?

1. No

2. Plead the fifth

3. Plead the fifth

4. Never had to...still wouldn't , if I chose to take them...

5. Sure , there are many paths...this being one...
Long history , in witchcraft , and shamanism...

6. Definitely not

7. All things in moderation

...:bigredgri...

Caitlin.ann

January 3rd, 2009, 01:44 PM

MonSno_LeeDra

January 3rd, 2009, 01:50 PM

Well I am a product of the 60's and 70's so I won't even try to say I have not tried various things to change my perspective of things. I will admit that over the years I have found other things that do the same for me or have been shown to me that have the same affect.

However, I also realize that just because I no longer use them does not make me right and another wrong that does.

All I can say is

no no no please I don't smoke it no more
I'm tired of waking up on the floor
No thank you please it only make me sneeze
and then make it hard to find the door

and the beat goes on......

watersprite

January 3rd, 2009, 01:55 PM

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 01:56 PM

Understood...

Sorry your experiences were bad...

Three basic rules of thumb...

Published years ago...

1. Choice of drug

2. Dosage

3. Setting
( Environment: inner and outer , during ingestion , and journey... )

And , there is no way , I would want you not to see Nick...

We want a happy SacredSin , on MW...:uhhuhuh:

Yes I understand your choice, and I was stating my personal reasons for not doing drugs, not preaching. I see it like this: There is a zero tolerance for drugs at my work. I can take the risk of getting caught with them in my system and risk losing my job. If I do that, the chance that I will see Nick this summer is highly unlikely. Then I wonder how that would look if it were brought up when applying for future jobs.

Thats partially whats stopping *me* though. That and my experiences are all bad.

Modesty

January 3rd, 2009, 01:58 PM

I second that sister!

Drugs don't play any part in my path whatsoever.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 01:59 PM

Hey !

Half the time , I sleep on the floor , on a sheepskin , by choice !

...:bigredgri...ROTFLMAO...

All I can say is

no no no please I don't smoke it no more
I'm tired of waking up on the floor
No thank you please it only make me sneeze
and then make it hard to find the door

and the beat goes on......

MonSno_LeeDra

January 3rd, 2009, 02:04 PM

Half the time , I sleep on the floor , on a sheepskin , by choice !

Yeah you started out for that..we just ended up there...of course that is better than ending up in the bathtub with a question of why? and who is this person with me?

Phoenix Blue

January 3rd, 2009, 02:11 PM

Yeah you started out for that..we just ended up there...of course that is better than ending up in the bathtub with a question of why? and who is this person with me?
"Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?"

:D

Modesty

January 3rd, 2009, 02:13 PM

One does not reach God/dess through the use of drugs. Man is incapable of reaching God to begin with, but he can, "come closer" to the chosen God/dess through faith, not drugs.

...and if they weren't illicit or illegal? If they were au natural in the world (left without indication of negativity) would the opinion change?

Personally I've done the peyote trip in the desert and it was quite beautiful and profound. I have done LSD for both recreation and mind expanding/bending/exploding/imploding/growing experiences. I have done quite a bit in search of experiences. Good and bad. It is from this perspective that allows me to understand the differences in experience sans the aid/tool/catalyst for the experience of elevation. I have had just as many profound experiences without the aid.

IMO, the brain is not who you are and it is not the vehicle for delivering your experience of "Diety", the Divine, or God. You're innate intelligence of being. The spirit of who you are gets you there.

Since I don't believe that it is through the physcial mind ( a hopeless noodle of chemical reactions) that we reach God the only thing these tools did was retool the chemical reactions in the brain allowing for altered perceptions. Reality after all is a state of mind. It didn't permenantly alter who I am or change my relationship to Diety. It opened previously unseen sights and experiences.

I don't prescribe my experiences to anyone else. I am meerly stating that my experiences were still quite profound and engaging.

Many many cultures have engaged in taking hallucinagens for altered states.

Nox_Mortus

January 3rd, 2009, 02:15 PM

One does not reach God/dess through the use of drugs. Man is incapable of reaching God to begin with, but he can, "come closer" to the chosen God/dess through faith, not drugs.

I agree with this tyo a point, but in my experience, whil the drugs aren't the key (or even necessary) they do help, a lot.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 02:22 PM

This , to me , is a huge crock of malarkey...

...IMO , IMK , IME...

One does not reach God/dess through the use of drugs. Man is incapable of reaching God to begin with, but he can, "come closer" to the chosen God/dess through faith, not drugs.

Happydeadkitty

January 3rd, 2009, 02:28 PM

Modesty

January 3rd, 2009, 02:29 PM

Crock of Poo would have sounded better. What is malarkey? lmao

This , to me , is a huge crock of malarkey...

...IMO , IMK , IME...

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 02:35 PM

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malarkey

http://www.answers.com/topic/malarkey

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/malarkey

Hey , I'm Irish...crock of poo ? Eeeuuuhhh...

By the way , the etymological origins , listed
on wiktionary...are a crock of malarkey...:bigredgri

Modesty

January 3rd, 2009, 02:38 PM

What a bunch of POO!

Shawn Blackwolf

January 3rd, 2009, 02:41 PM

Glad we agree to disagree...

Malarkey , and Poo , taken into full consideration...ROTFLMAO...

What a bunch of POO!

Cunae

January 3rd, 2009, 04:13 PM

I wonder what the point to your questioning is. I've become wary of your threads... I usually find a hidden trap to push your beliefs.

Anyway... If I do them... It's generally just for fun, but I have also...planned rituals including "illicit" drugs, and my experiences have been incredible.

But heres two threads about the same exact thing for you...(search button)

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.ph...40#post3620740 (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=3620740#post3620740)
http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=197482

HDK

Do you mean me, HDK? I can't interpret this any other way. Where in this thread have I pushed my own beliefs? Please refer to the post #.

And in other threads I've started, I start a thread, listen, then form an opinion. Very seldom do I have one already. PS. there's nothing wrong with starting a thread with one's belief about something.

As for the two references to other threads, thanks. I'll look at them.

Last, I don't understand the "wariness". I have never been out to "trap" anyone. This accusation borders on paranoia. IMHO.

Deerwoman

January 3rd, 2009, 04:33 PM

Drugs yes, illicit no. Many natural entheogens from plants are not illegal. I wildcraft my own and use them for flying and letting go of the conscious mind, but not on a regular basis.

Nox_Mortus

January 3rd, 2009, 04:41 PM

Drugs yes, illicit no. Many natural entheogens from plants are not illegal. I wildcraft my own and use them for flying and letting go of the conscious mind, but not on a regular basis.

I haven't encountered many that aren't illegal, in most cases, the plants are legal, but the drugs themselves are not, such as plants containing DMT and some mescaline containing plants. Scopolamine is sort of legal, but is ridiculously dangerous to use in most most cases.

So, if I might ask, what particular entheogens are you reffering too?

la tortuga

January 3rd, 2009, 04:42 PM

Nope.

I really hate all forms of intoxication in general, and the extra vulnerability simply proves to be too much for me in any case.

Happydeadkitty

January 3rd, 2009, 05:55 PM

Do you mean me, HDK? I can't interpret this any other way. Where in this thread have I pushed my own beliefs? Please refer to the post #.

And in other threads I've started, I start a thread, listen, then form an opinion. Very seldom do I have one already. PS. there's nothing wrong with starting a thread with one's belief about something.

As for the two references to other threads, thanks. I'll look at them.

Last, I don't understand the "wariness". I have never been out to "trap" anyone. This accusation borders on paranoia. IMHO.

Hahaha! Must be the drugs!

HDK

Cunae

January 3rd, 2009, 06:36 PM

Hahaha! Must be the drugs!

HDK

Pretty much the kind of non-answer I expected. :rolleyes:

Astara Seague

January 3rd, 2009, 07:45 PM

nope nothing illegal or illicet
natural herbs, incense and candles usually
if I wish to get in a altered state I will meditate, that way I am in control of my facilitys and I am not vulnerable

DoktorSick

January 3rd, 2009, 10:32 PM

yes it's part of the unholy trinity of my path of sex,drugs and rock n roll.
I use mainly weed and some shrooms and acid from time to time.I do mess with other drugs they a way to serious to deal with.:thumbsup:

Phoenix Blue

January 4th, 2009, 03:13 AM

Hahaha! Must be the drugs!

HDK

Pretty much the kind of non-answer I expected.
Both of you, break it up, please.

Thanks!

Philosophia

January 4th, 2009, 05:57 AM

I don't touch illegal drugs because I don't trust myself on them to not become addicted to the high.

Deerwoman

January 4th, 2009, 03:42 PM

So, if I might ask, what particular entheogens are you reffering too?
Legal in Canada, not necessarily the US - Salvia, Fly Agaric, Damiana, and Yoruba Gold (a mixture of damiana, scullcap, lobelia, passionflower and spearmint), also psilocybin mushrooms - the spores are legal, but growing or selling them are not. Two types of nightshade also grow here, but I do not use them as they don't contain the atropine and are therefore just poisons. I've used MJ for ritual as well, but it is illegal here, the laws just aren't as harsh as the States.

Nox_Mortus

January 5th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Legal in Canada, not necessarily the US - Salvia, Fly Agaric, Damiana, and Yoruba Gold (a mixture of damiana, scullcap, lobelia, passionflower and spearmint), also psilocybin mushrooms - the spores are legal, but growing or selling them are not. Two types of nightshade also grow here, but I do not use them as they don't contain the atropine and are therefore just poisons. I've used MJ for ritual as well, but it is illegal here, the laws just aren't as harsh as the States.

ahh yeah, all of those are legal here as well, but most of them don't grow wild here (psilocybin mushrooms do, but are illegal, same rules apply to the spores though)

draguakale

January 5th, 2009, 10:40 PM

Yes I understand your choice, and I was stating my personal reasons for not doing drugs, not preaching. I see it like this: There is a zero tolerance for drugs at my work. I can take the risk of getting caught with them in my system and risk losing my job. If I do that, the chance that I will see Nick this summer is highly unlikely. Then I wonder how that would look if it were brought up when applying for future jobs.

Thats partially whats stopping *me* though. That and my experiences are all bad.

From my experiences in Nevada as well as in Michigan (both are "at will states" the harshest kind to get hired/fired/stay hired in) they can not legally divulge why you were fired, they can only confirm that you had worked there.

draguakale

January 5th, 2009, 10:52 PM

One does not reach God/dess through the use of drugs. Man is incapable of reaching God to begin with, but he can, "come closer" to the chosen God/dess through faith, not drugs.

Who are you to say how I experience the Goddess/God? or how anyone else does either?

draguakale

January 5th, 2009, 10:55 PM

:uhhuhuh::uhhuhuh::uhhuhuh::uhhuhuh:

...and if they weren't illicit or illegal? If they were au natural in the world (left without indication of negativity) would the opinion change? ...

Phoenix Blue

January 6th, 2009, 01:09 AM

Who are you to say how I experience the Goddess/God? or how anyone else does either?
Oh, get over yourself. It was clearly a personal opinion.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 6th, 2009, 01:33 AM

Actually , Phoenix Blue...

Though I answered that post with humor , generally...

I , myself , did not see it as personal opinion , yet a flat out
statement , that I felt was full of malarkey...as I said...

Yet...I do see it as a statement some might take offense to...

I did find it offensive...yet I dealt with it differently...

Just sayin'...yah know ?

Oh, get over yourself. It was clearly a personal opinion.

Phoenix Blue

January 6th, 2009, 01:59 AM

I , myself , did not see it as personal opinion , yet a flat out
statement , that I felt was full of malarkey...as I said...
And that was a personal opinion as well, was it not? What makes Modesty's post any different? Honestly, if someone wants to take offense to a statement that isn't even directed at her, that's her choice -- and I'll be quick to call her on it.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 6th, 2009, 02:03 AM

And when you are not speaking as an admn , I shall be quick on calling you on what I feel is an improper calling someone else , or
me out ... Fair enough ?

( Do note...when I answered Modesty , I used IMO , IMK , IME...making it personal opinion... )

Clair de la Lune

January 6th, 2009, 03:19 AM

Getting back on the original subject:

I find that when I meditate, fast, or sometimes when under hardship of some sorts that I do come a lot closer to my spirituality. I can get in a trance-like state. I have witnessed my fiance do the same with healing powers and he speaks in his own language. His Reiki gets better too.

We don't do drugs. The one time I tried MJ was over a year ago, and it made me feel further from awareness on a higher plane. I felt really relaxed, but impaired in every way and I didn't like the loss of control. When I meditate or go into trance, it just feels different and I am aware and in tune, but extremely relaxed too and in my own altered state..but I am sharply super-aware down to a pinpointed psychic level, and yet one with the universe, all at the same time. I feel closer to my God and all of creation including YOU.

Shawn Blackwolf

January 6th, 2009, 06:43 AM

Sorry it had that effect on you...

Yet that is not the effect for everyone , and this is one thing
for everyone , not necessarily you , Claire , but thank you for
letting me use your post to illustrate it...

One thing for everyone to remember...we do not all have the same experiences ,
or reactions , and to think we do...anyone who thinks that...is incorrect...
I definitely do not have the previous described reaction...quite the opposite...
more control , extremely focused...

and in contact with whatever I wanted...micro , or macrocosm...

There have been , and still are those who seek to get laws passed
against certain substances , due to their religious beliefs , or their
poor experiences with certain substances...

And that is where I draw the line...my body , my experiences...

If it works for me , or others...our right to ingest...

As I said previously...safety considered...and I expect the same
consideration , from anyone , on so called legal "safe" drugs , also ;

Or in bliss from deep meditation...( personal experience...someone
caused an accident from being too blissed out from deep breathing ,
chanting , and not focusing...:smileroll...not me ! )

The one time I tried MJ was over a year ago, and it made me feel further from awareness on a higher plane. I felt really relaxed, but impaired in every way and I didn't like the loss of control. When I meditate or go into trance, it just feels different and I am aware and in tune, but extremely relaxed too and in my own altered state..but I am sharply super-aware down to a pinpointed psychic level, and yet one with the universe, all at the same time. I feel closer to my God and all of creation including YOU.

Solya

January 6th, 2009, 08:21 AM

I find drugs unnecessary in my pathwalk. :) My experience with drug users has not been a very positive one and, knowing myself and the way I work, I would probably have a hard time preventing personal addiction to any sort of drug. I do not want to ruin relationships with others simply because of drugs.

Besides, I find that I get by just fine without them. I can do trances, meditations and all other types of magical workings without the use of drugs. I could get them and use them if I wanted to, but it's been a personal choice of me to not ever use them and I will keep to that.

Tahlea

January 6th, 2009, 09:15 AM

I'm another who finds illicit drugs unnecessary. I'm high enough on life already :P

skilly-nilly

January 6th, 2009, 09:41 AM

Oh, get over yourself. It was clearly a personal opinion.

Agreed!
When I read the post under discussion, I thought to myself. "A little dictatorial, neh?" but then I reminded myself that it was obviously a personal opinion and got over it.

What I think is offensive is not being dictatorial about personal experience, such as experiencing God/s/dess/desses, but co-opting factual/ historical/ loric reality and making them mean only what one's personal individual interpretation is and no other.

Modesty doesn't actually make any negative statement about people who use drugs.

Calling her opinion malarky makes a negative statement.

My personal opinion is that for every person who may communicate with God/s/dess/desses while using illegal substances there are a million or more who only make themselves stupider with the same stuff.

debnmike

January 6th, 2009, 09:54 AM

Spirituallity aside, I have no time/money/use for drugs. Like has already been stated (Philo I think), I have a very addictive personality and can't risk jumping on that bandwagon.

Also as has been pointed out, I can't afford to lose my job--this economy doesn't allow for that!

The hardest "drug" I do is beer, and only occasionaly. I can't afford (in many ways) to do drugs at all.

Crystal Willowtree

January 6th, 2009, 10:05 AM

no, i have no use for them in my path or even my life

Shawn Blackwolf

January 6th, 2009, 11:19 AM

Modesty's statement was very clear...and did not say "IMO" ,
nor any variation , thereof...she distinctly said :

"One does not reach God/dess through the use of drugs. Man is incapable of reaching God to begin with, but he can, "come closer" to the chosen God/dess through faith, not drugs."

Now that is a blanket statement , without an "IMO" , and as
such , as I previously stated , IMO , IMK , and IME , is Malarkey

Does not matter if she made a negative statement about drugs...

She made a statement I consider Malarkey , and I shall state such
whether you , or anyone else likes it...as that is my opinion...:bigredgri

( And Modesty , and I dealt with it in a comedic fashion , then let it go...
I then defended the right of someone else , who felt offended , stated so ,
and was criticized...which I , IMO , felt was wrong...so I said so... )

All perfectly within MW guidelines...

Modesty doesn't actually make any negative statement about people who use drugs.

Calling her opinion malarky makes a negative statement.

Deerwoman

January 6th, 2009, 02:28 PM

I've noticed a trend in replies and I agree - if you have an addictive personality then it's better not to tempt fate and exclude any drugs from your craft. I've seen what drugs can do to people who can't help but get addicted and it's not pretty. If you know you have self-control and a grounded sense of responsibility - and you research proper dosages beforehand - then go for it.

For me personally I have a lot of trouble letting go of control, especially of my conscious mind. It takes me hours just to fall asleep because my brain has no off switch. I use entheogens for workings because I cannot go directly into trance or meditation like other lucky people.

brigidrose

January 6th, 2009, 02:37 PM

I don't use drugs for any purpose. I feel that drugs break down your energy and etheric force. I feel you need to be clear to connect.

I have some friends who used them once or twice to open themselves up to connect, but they didn't do it on a regular basis. So I guess its up the the individual.

Oh... IMO :)

iceskater12

January 9th, 2009, 08:54 PM

I'm not even old enough to drink, so I haven't lived very long...but I have never used illegal drugs. Using them on your body is like using them on the godess, she's apart of each of us.

You should never mess with the one whose holding your future in their hands :clapping:

Shawn Blackwolf

January 9th, 2009, 09:12 PM

And since I hold my future in my hands , I decide what to do ,
or not do , regarding my system , and programming , and also
metaprogramming my consciousness...

By the way...if you honor the Goddess , as you seem to , she might
appreciate you spelling Goddess properly...IMO , and just saying

I'm not even old enough to drink, so I haven't lived very long...but I have never used illegal drugs. Using them on your body is like using them on the godess, she's apart of each of us.

You should never mess with the one whose holding your future in their hands :clapping:

iceskater12

January 9th, 2009, 09:23 PM

And since I hold my future in my hands , I decide what to do ,
or not do , regarding my system , and programming , and also
metaprogramming my consciousness...

By the way...if you honor the Goddess , as you seem to , she might
appreciate you spelling Goddess properly...IMO , and just saying

Oops! *runs away embarrassed*

Hey there's a spell checker button! Seriously, I've never seen it! Awesome!

I installed it! Yay!

Thanks!

Caitlin.ann

January 9th, 2009, 09:26 PM

Shawn Blackwolf

January 9th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Reporting for duty , ma'am...

Along with Philosophia , and a few others...

However...if in their tradition , that was the way it was spelled ?

More power to them !

And see ? All those drugs I took...and I still can spell , see straight , and walk without falling over...not bad , huh ?

Grammar police.

Caitlin.ann

January 9th, 2009, 09:52 PM

Shawn Blackwolf

January 9th, 2009, 10:05 PM

Sure do , Lady...

I have not had so much pot in my kettle I can't tell that...:bigredgri

...LOL...

Scott Hill

February 3rd, 2009, 08:27 PM

First of all, let me say that I've done dozens (probably hundreds) of street drugs by themselves and in all sorts of combinations. I don't do them anymore (trust me, I could pass a thorough drug screening right now), but I have had some experience.

In general, I'm not averse to alcohol or natural drugs in moderation - if you can't put it down, you need to put it down for good. So, while I think marijuana, natural opiates, peyote, etc. should be legalized, I caution people against using acid, ecstasy, meth and other human-made drugs. Every drug should be used with caution, but drugs in the latter group have - in my experience - caused more suffering than I care to relate.

Having said that, I have a rule: I never imbibe any drug within twenty-four hours of a scheduled ritual, spell or other time set aside for spiritual practice. The only exceptions are 1) my normal meds, which I have to take every day to stay out of the hospital and 2) an extremely limited use of a natural drug for spiritual practice that has a historical basis being used for that purpose (i.e., I once used peyote as part of a shamanistic practice).

I would like to say something from personal experience. I have seen others use psychotropic drugs of all sorts to gain a sort of "spiritual high" - and I myself have tried this. It isn't worth it. Our brains make drugs that are far more powerful than the best
hallucinogens out there. I've had hundreds of experiences with
hallucinogens, and I still feel that what I can attain during astral projection is more fulfilling than any of them. Do yourself a favor - skip the acid and go straight to daily meditation.

Blessings (and please don't narc on me :bigredgri),
Scott

Shawn Blackwolf

February 3rd, 2009, 08:37 PM

Interesting post , Scott...

I , and others...many...I know have had different experiences...

And I , though for twenty years now , not touching psychedelics ,
would strongly disagree with your recommendation...

And Peyote once ?

Sorry...no way you know mescalito spirit...

Acid...I have probably done far more than you , at one time...

50 hits of 4 way Clearlight , back in the 70's...guess from who ?

So...we all have different experiences...different mind frames...

I still recommend people to read High Priest from Leary , and
Aldous Huxley's work , Doors Of Perception , the works of
McKenna , and Lily...and more...

Then , if it so behooves them...Metaprogram wisely...

The astral realm , has just as many dangers , for those not ready !

And meditation , is not for everyone...IMO...IME...IMK...

First of all, let me say that I've done dozens (probably hundreds) of street drugs by themselves and in all sorts of combinations. I don't do them anymore (trust me, I could pass a thorough drug screening right now), but I have had some experience.

In general, I'm not averse to alcohol or natural drugs in moderation - if you can't put it down, you need to put it down for good. So, while I think marijuana, natural opiates, peyote, etc. should be legalized, I caution people against using acid, ecstasy, meth and other human-made drugs. Every drug should be used with caution, but drugs in the latter group have - in my experience - caused more suffering than I care to relate.

Having said that, I have a rule: I never imbibe any drug within twenty-four hours of a scheduled ritual, spell or other time set aside for spiritual practice. The only exceptions are 1) my normal meds, which I have to take every day to stay out of the hospital and 2) an extremely limited use of a natural drug for spiritual practice that has a historical basis being used for that purpose (i.e., I once used peyote as part of a shamanistic practice).

I would like to say something from personal experience. I have seen others use psychotropic drugs of all sorts to gain a sort of "spiritual high" - and I myself have tried this. It isn't worth it. Our brains make drugs that are far more powerful than the best
hallucinogens out there. I've had hundreds of experiences with
hallucinogens, and I still feel that what I can attain during astral projection is more fulfilling than any of them. Do yourself a favor - skip the acid and go straight to daily meditation.

Blessings (and please don't narc on me :bigredgri),
Scott

evergreen

February 3rd, 2009, 09:15 PM

I have never used illicit drugs, for my path or otherwise. I don't have a problem with those that have experimented with them though. (I'd have a problem with both of my parents then. :hahugh: )

I've sincerely thought about and have been presented with the opportunity plenty of times. I avoid it because I do have an addictive personality and with my anxiety disorder, I'd probably have the worst experience ever. I worry that I wouldn't be able to control what was going on with my body. Convening with the Gods would probably be the last thing on my mind.

I can feel pretty high and/or close with my Gods and Goddesses without the need of anything in my bloodstream.

Shawn Blackwolf

February 3rd, 2009, 09:23 PM

And blessings on your path , with your self wisdom , Evergreen...

You do understand though , for some of us...it has little to do
with Gods and Goddessess ?

More to do with reprogramming consciousness ?

I have never used illicit drugs, for my path or otherwise. I don't have a problem with those that have experimented with them though. (I'd have a problem with both of my parents then. :hahugh: )

I've sincerely thought about and have been presented with the opportunity plenty of times. I avoid it because I do have an addictive personality and with my anxiety disorder, I'd probably have the worst experience ever. I worry that I wouldn't be able to control what was going on with my body. Convening with the Gods would probably be the last thing on my mind.

I can feel pretty high and/or close with my Gods and Goddesses without the need of anything in my bloodstream.

evergreen

February 3rd, 2009, 09:26 PM

And blessings on your path , with your self wisdom , Evergreen...

You do understand though , for some of us...it has little to do
with Gods and Goddessess ?

More to do with reprogramming consciousness ?

No, actually, I didn't. I've never heard of this before. Why would you have to reprogram consciousness? Actually, I'm not even certain I know what that means.

Shawn Blackwolf

February 3rd, 2009, 09:34 PM

Check the other authors I have mentioned...

Terence McKenna , Tim Leary ( Eight Circuitry System , and Neurologic ) , Aldous Huxley...

But here is a link...

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Misc/metaprog.html

No, actually, I didn't. I've never heard of this before. Why would you have to reprogram consciousness? Actually, I'm not even certain I know what that means.

ftballmom37

February 3rd, 2009, 10:02 PM

I think drugs alter you mind too much and can affect your spirituality

Shawn Blackwolf

February 3rd, 2009, 10:03 PM

Another link , to Terence :

http://deoxy.org/mckenna.htm

Flux

February 4th, 2009, 09:19 AM

No, not at all.

memnoch

February 4th, 2009, 11:08 AM

short answer yes, but
long answer no, however

A brief summary, I am an agnostic follower of Loki. I do many things that are rather whimsical. There have been many times I've tried something just to see "what if".

With that said, when I do something it is not part of a "sacred ritual" or anything like that, I do them because I want to...to release my inhabitions, and to see what will happen.

Over the years I've tried most illicit drugs, and honestly, after my experiences, the only ones I really have interest in (besides alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine) are hallucinaginics. Now, if offered a drug (for free, or cheap) I rarely say no.

Lastly, because this seems to come up any time I mention my recreational drug use. I'm not an addict, never have been. With the exceptions of caffeine and nicotine I have always controled my uses...alcohol and pot when I was younger was a bit of middle ground as I did them regularly, but it was easy to stop, and it never affected my personal life (jobs, family, ect)...everything else I've done would be either a 1-2 week regular usage, or I would/do use on a very rare occasion, my favorite being exstacy, which I used maybe 3 times last year.

Ailyn

February 4th, 2009, 04:26 PM

Yeah, never done illegal drugs, pretty happy about that. But I don't care if anyone else does them, with one exception. My boyfriend isn't allowed to, because I will leave. I don't date people who are into drugs. But he's never been an avid user, so its all cool. I'm cool with slip-ups and once-in-awhiles. I would really like to try 'shrooms and paint. Thats all. But I'm all for legalization of naturally occuring substances. YAY 'SHROOMS! :boing: But whatever makes you feel closer to your Gods, thats cool. I mean, some Gods wanted human sacrifices in olden days, whats wrong with a little mj compared to that? Just be careful and safe, and don't force people to be around you when you do.

princeether

February 4th, 2009, 06:39 PM

I think some distinction needs to be made here concerning the term 'Illicit drugs', many hallucinogenic plants are legal all over the world, some of which are far more dangerous than illegal drugs, I use some that are legal, and some that aren't.
My path calls for entheogen use in a Shamanistic capacity, I use many plants and herbs with Hallucinogenic properties, but I only use entheogens I have cultivated or extracted myself, I take them alone, so I can connect with my higher self, ancestors, spirit and also gain trance state.
I think it is extremely narrow minded to class all drugs out there as the same, and also I find it shocking that some people here are not open to the fact that some people use hallucinogens in a responsible, positive way, experiencing, what they believe to be spiritual experiences, connecting to their higher power and fulfilling their destiny...

vnvrymdreglage

February 4th, 2009, 07:35 PM

Right, it's quite hipocritical for most people to condone alcohol and tobacco use when they're often far more harmful to the body than most illegal substances.

Spiritual entheogen use is legal in some cases in the United States. Some religious groups are allowed to use Peyote, Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, etc. and in limited cases psychologists have used LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA, etc. to (almost always) successfully help patients.

I think I read somewhere that LSD has an 80% success rate in curing alcoholism. When used responsibly and for the right reasons, they have incredible benefits to humans just like wine can improve cardiovascular health.

princeether

February 4th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Spiritual entheogen use is legal in some cases in the United States. Some religious groups are allowed to use Peyote, Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, etc. and in limited cases psychologists have used LSD, Psilocybin, MDMA, etc. to (almost always) successfully help patients.

The Temple of the true inner light in Manhattan, an New York City offshoot of The Native American Church believe Entheogens to be the flesh of God, and their Eucharist is DPT (Dipropyltryptamine).

I think I read somewhere that LSD has an 80% success rate in curing alcoholism. When used responsibly and for the right reasons, they have incredible benefits to humans just like wine can improve cardiovascular health.

Ibogaine, a very strong hallucinogen is now considered one of the most effective treatments for Opiate addiction.

Doodlebug

February 6th, 2009, 12:26 AM

Nope. I feel mind-altering drugs take the mind further away from the Divine, not closer.

I agree Phoenix Blue. That and taking illicit drugs can get you in to trouble so I'd rather not take them. That and I'd rather not be addicted to anything besides nicotine.

Shawn Blackwolf

February 6th, 2009, 01:13 AM

Disagree thoroughly , that drugs take you away from the divine...

And...allergic , violently to tobacco...if I smoke anything...It will
be the Holy Sacrament of Herb...marijuana...

I agree Phoenix Blue. That and taking illicit drugs can get you in to trouble so I'd rather not take them. That and I'd rather not be addicted to anything besides nicotine.

Scott Hill

February 6th, 2009, 05:50 PM

Interesting post , Scott...

I , and others...many...I know have had different experiences...

And I , though for twenty years now , not touching psychedelics ,
would strongly disagree with your recommendation...

And Peyote once ?

Sorry...no way you know mescalito spirit...

Acid...I have probably done far more than you , at one time...

50 hits of 4 way Clearlight , back in the 70's...guess from who ?

So...we all have different experiences...different mind frames...

I still recommend people to read High Priest from Leary , and
Aldous Huxley's work , Doors Of Perception , the works of
McKenna , and Lily...and more...

Then , if it so behooves them...Metaprogram wisely...

The astral realm , has just as many dangers , for those not ready !

And meditation , is not for everyone...IMO...IME...IMK...

Hello,

I hope I figured out how to quote you. I'm still new to some of the technical features of the site.

I'm really not interested in a contest of who's done more of any particular drug (perhaps because I'm afraid it would be me :shhhh:) or who we've done it with. And I was trying to make a distinction between recreational use and spiritual use (although I may not have succeeded).

Anyway, I don't have a problem with most forms of mescaline. But I did want to explain why acid is on my list of drugs I avoid... and it's an extension of it's being a human-processed drug. A good friend of my wife's (and one of the kindest guys I've ever met) took some acid a few years back. When we take acid, we assume that it's clean (or that it's cut with something that isn't going to be dangerous). At least, I used to always make that assumption. He got something that was more than just acid. We don't know exactly what else was in it, but my best guess is anal nitrate and PCP. He stabbed his sister to death, and he's now serving a lifetime sentence for it. His life was wasted on one night of recreational drug use. Things were a lot cleaner back in the '70's; but, as I don't have a time machine, I'm going the safe route and avoiding the human-made stuff...

Yes, you are correct in assuming that meditation can be a dangerous practice. However, I believe that it can benefit nearly everyone who tries it as long as they take the most basic of precautions.

As always, I enjoy and appreciate your responses, especially when they encourage debate.

Blessings,
Scott

Scott Hill

February 6th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Oh, yes. I also wanted to address your assumption that I was saying drugs don't help you understand the divine. That wasn't what I was trying to say (though, in reviewing my post, I could have said it better).

I think drugs tend to push you toward the divine, but it's like a sloppy downhill push on a rusty sled. You are going in the right direction, but you can't steer. Now, I don't believe that you can ever be fully in control of a mindf*** experience (that would, in fact, defeat the purpose :smile:). But you can approach a spiritual experience responsibly, with a definite sense of purpose (even if that purpose is just to share some music with the fae or play with a cool astral wind). Many hallucinogens take that purpose away. Like spelunking without a light, you can get to some way cool places - but you might be inviting danger all the same.

Blessings,
S

draguakale

February 6th, 2009, 11:09 PM

I agree Phoenix Blue. That and taking illicit drugs can get you in to trouble so I'd rather not take them. That and I'd rather not be addicted to anything besides nicotine.

And more people die from that addiction than I've EVER heard dying from a marajuana addiction. Anyone have those stats? the how many have died from smoking marajuana? 'shrooms?

AlorelithRose

February 6th, 2009, 11:22 PM

Shawn Blackwolf

February 6th, 2009, 11:50 PM

Oxygen is mind altering...Foods are mind altering...Sleep is mind
altering...or the lack of any of those is mind altering...

Or , any mixtures , or variations of...hyperventilation , for one...

Hell...I know about 20 different breathing techniques , I can alter
my consciousness for better , or worse , in minutes...

Eat certain mixtures of foods...you might not have full control
of your emotions , or consciousness...

All of the above...ARE DRUGS...if we use the definition of mind
altering...you ever have severe lack of sleep problems ?

Not just psychological...sends toxins , normally flushed out of
your system , right back into your system...poisons you...

ALTERS YOUR PERCEPTIONS AND YOUR MINDFRAME

Who says we are entering a circle in perfect love , and perfect trust ?

Maybe , maybe not...

There are many cultures , worldwide , who have used sacred herbs ,
or poets , and artists , shaman and medicine people , who have
utilized these substances , with positive results...

It is the opressed , and opressive culture , in our country , and in
many places around the world today , that have worked to supress
the transformative forces of SEX , DRUGS , AND SUBVERSIVE
MUSIC !

And , I have never forgotten my rituals , or connections , either
in this realm , or others , by partaking of any HOLY SACRAMENT ;

If you cannot navigate space time , and beyond , during the time
duration of a medicine journey...or other academics , who set themselves
up to speak for everyone else...that is not my concern ,
nor my problem...make your choice , and live with it...

But do not dare to assume the rest of us are like you , or those
who have established themselves as authorities , under what I
would term false and deceptive pretences...

Choose your own path...live it...leave the rest of us to ours , with
no assumations , nor judgement , on your part...

And none of this is said with anger , malice , or disrespect...

Just firmness , and the voice of my experience...:thumbsup:

drugs and alcohol are called 'uncontrolled mind altering substances' for a reason. how can you enter a circle in perfect love and perfect trust when you can't even respect the goddess/god enough to be sober in front of them? there are other ways to alter your consciousness without the use of drugs which you have no control over. just think of all the awful things people do while drunk/high. is that really something you would want to do while trying to connect with diety? isn't that connection something you would like to remember the next morning?

Shawn Blackwolf

February 6th, 2009, 11:56 PM

Disagree wholeheartedly here , Scott...

Look into Leary , Lily , Wilson , McKenna...just for some white boys...metaprogramming the Human Bio Computer...

Full control of the experience...

Oh, yes. I also wanted to address your assumption that I was saying drugs don't help you understand the divine. That wasn't what I was trying to say (though, in reviewing my post, I could have said it better).

I think drugs tend to push you toward the divine, but it's like a sloppy downhill push on a rusty sled. You are going in the right direction, but you can't steer. Now, I don't believe that you can ever be fully in control of a mindhug experience (that would, in fact, defeat the purpose :smile:). But you can approach a spiritual experience responsibly, with a definite sense of purpose (even if that purpose is just to share some music with the fae or play with a cool astral wind). Many hallucinogens take that purpose away. Like spelunking without a light, you can get to some way cool places - but you might be inviting danger all the same.

Blessings,
S

Shawn Blackwolf

February 7th, 2009, 12:08 AM

Actually , you made my point for me here...

I was not talking about who I did it with...

Maybe you are not familiar , with who I got it from...

Long after the original experiments with mixtures ,
and what we called bad acid...

The 50 hits of 4 way Clearlight...

Came from this man...pure , and ultimately strong...

Far more of a dosage , than what 200 hits would be today...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owsley_Stanley

We did not have the problems you describe...

Purple Haze , Orange Sunshine , Purple Barrel , Mr Natural...

Pure acid on sugar cubes...liquid , in a bottle , in the eyes...

Different times...yes...:bigredgri

Hello,
I'm really not interested in a contest of who's done more of any particular drug (perhaps because I'm afraid it would be me :shhhh:) or who we've done it with. And I was trying to make a distinction between recreational use and spiritual use (although I may not have succeeded).

Anyway, I don't have a problem with most forms of mescaline. But I did want to explain why acid is on my list of drugs I avoid... and it's an extension of it's being a human-processed drug. A good friend of my wife's (and one of the kindest guys I've ever met) took some acid a few years back. When we take acid, we assume that it's clean (or that it's cut with something that isn't going to be dangerous). At least, I used to always make that assumption. He got something that was more than just acid. We don't know exactly what else was in it, but my best guess is anal nitrate and PCP. He stabbed his sister to death, and he's now serving a lifetime sentence for it. His life was wasted on one night of recreational drug use. Things were a lot cleaner back in the '70's; but, as I don't have a time machine, I'm going the safe route and avoiding the human-made stuff...

draguakale

February 7th, 2009, 12:39 PM

drugs and alcohol are called 'uncontrolled mind altering substances' for a reason. how can you enter a circle in perfect love and perfect trust when you can't even respect the goddess/god enough to be sober in front of them? there are other ways to alter your consciousness without the use of drugs which you have no control over. just think of all the awful things people do while drunk/high. is that really something you would want to do while trying to connect with diety? isn't that connection something you would like to remember the next morning?

I point to my last post. And since you've never done "illegal/illicit drugs" you have no clue what anyone can remember in the morning. Just because most people go on about how they passed out, doesn't mean everyone does. People that pass out have done so because they've taken in too much of a substance, and their body shuts down so they don't poison themselves. Same for emesis, if you drink after throwing up you're more likely to die from poisoning. Emesis is the body's natural response to being over flooded with too much of one thing, or a combination of things. For that reason, I would like to add that they're uncontrolled only by the idiot taking it/them. I've driven stoned on pot when I was in Nevada. Many times. Still alive. Hmm, unless I'm a ghost that my Mom, sister, nieces, boyfriend, my bf's daughter, my bf's ex-wife, everyone here at my bf's work, and everyone at my work all interact with. Not to mention the many other people I've interacted with.

kotu

February 7th, 2009, 01:07 PM

Just like the title asks, "Do illicit drugs play a role on your path?"
and whats it got to do with the government/police anyway?

princeether

February 7th, 2009, 01:15 PM

drugs and alcohol are called 'uncontrolled mind altering substances' for a reason. how can you enter a circle in perfect love and perfect trust when you can't even respect the goddess/god enough to be sober in front of them? there are other ways to alter your consciousness without the use of drugs which you have no control over. just think of all the awful things people do while drunk/high. is that really something you would want to do while trying to connect with diety? isn't that connection something you would like to remember the next morning?

We don't all worship the god/godess, we don't all prance around in a perfect circle of 'love and trust', we don't all believe our God/s/ess to be vengeful, judgemental God/s/ess, who would disapprove of the use of drugs for spiritual reasons.
And who the hell are you to presume
a)I would consume drugs I 'have no control over', you don't know anything about my capacity to cope with a hallucinogenic experience.
b)By taking 'Illicit drugs' I am going to start behaving like some tweaking, Ice head and start robbing my granny, and also you lump anyone using any drug into this category.
c)That you know anything about how and why I connect to my 'deity', or what I can remember in the morning.

~Belladonna~

February 7th, 2009, 01:49 PM

We don't all worship the god/godess, we don't all prance around in a perfect circle of 'love and trust', we don't all believe our God/s/ess to be vengeful, judgemental God/s/ess, who would disapprove of the use of drugs for spiritual reasons.
And who the hell are you to presume
a)I would consume drugs I 'have no control over', you don't know anything about my capacity to cope with a hallucinogenic experience.
b)By taking 'Illicit drugs' I am going to start behaving like some tweaking, Ice head and start robbing my granny, and also you lump anyone using any drug into this category.
c)That you know anything about how and why I connect to my 'deity', or what I can remember in the morning.

I totally agree! :thumbsup:

And I wonder why so many people lump us all into the same group i.e. Wiccans who do everything in "perfect love and perfect trust?"

princeether

February 7th, 2009, 02:02 PM

I totally agree! :thumbsup:

And I wonder why so many people lump us all into the same group i.e. Wiccans who do everything in "perfect love and perfect trust?"

I know it's very annoying, I think it boils down to ignorance...

If people actually researched the topic, they would see that Wicca does not represent all Pagans and Witches. Paganism can be traced back about 10,000 years, to the Paleolithic age, and it has taken on many, many forms since then, one of those being Wicca. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Wiccan theology only began to be compiled in the 1920's, and certainly wasn't popularised until 1954.

princeether

February 7th, 2009, 02:21 PM

Also, to say the use of Hallucinogens/Illicit drugs/Entheogens is detrimental to spiritual progress, practice or connection, is to refute the validity of thousands of years of spiritual practice, from many different human cultures.
It invalidates, and makes a mockery of, all Shamans, Witches, Medicine Men, Brujos ect., who have incorporated entheogens into their faith, ever to live throughout history.

Scott Hill

February 9th, 2009, 07:21 PM

Shawn, I appreciate your contributions to this debate. You have an interesting point of view. I do believe there is malice in your words, but you have a right to any anger you feel. Your memories of drug use are obviously strong ones; I'm glad you are taking the time to dip into those memories, as they seem very important to you (as are my own). Sorry, but I refuse to believe that your experiences are better because someone famous was involved. That's just an argument ad populum. I'll stick to natural drugs for occasional recreation and very occasional spiritual experimentation. I'm satisfied with my almost completely drug-free practice as it is - as you pointed out, there are many practices that alter our minds without the need for illicit drugs. I would never try to police your practice simply because it involves the idea that drugs are acceptable in certain circumstances - the gods wouldn't have made them if they weren't. I'm only defending my choices - not criticizing yours.

Blessings,
Scott

Darth Brooks

February 9th, 2009, 08:10 PM

Ritual intoxication was a very important practice in many ancient religions, and to some extent it is still an important practice in some traditions today. The cult of Dionysus is a most excellent example. While I do not begrudge anyone their right to have a differing opinion, I think some of the attitudes I've seen expressed in this thread are clearly made in ignorance, such as the following:

how can you enter a circle in perfect love and perfect trust when you can't even respect the goddess/god enough to be sober in front of them?(1) Not everyone on this board worships your god/goddess.

(2) Considering how many ancient traditions involved the use of mind-altering substances as a way of reaching the divine, I don't think it's an issue of disrespect so much as it is a matter of opinion.

(3) While some of the people who claim to speak for Him may claim differently, my God has never given me any indication whatsoever that He finds drug use in ritual to be "disrespectful." Perhaps your deities have given you such a rule, but my God is famous for being a drunkard.

(4) Therefore, your estimation that it is impossible to enter a ritual with "perfect love and perfect trust" while intoxicated is fallacious.

there are other ways to alter your consciousness without the use of drugs which you have no control over. I think you are making an overgeneralization here about people who use drugs. People who use drugs are not always under the control of those drugs. E.g., just because some drinkers might be weaklings who eventually become alcoholics does not mean everyone who drinks is weak.

just think of all the awful things people do while drunk/high. I can't think of anything horrible that anyone I know has ever done while high. At least, not while high on marijuana. Alcohol is a different issue, but again, it is an issue of the user being a weakling, not of the substance being morally reprehensible. Drugs are like guns and religion - they don't kill people; people kill people.

is that really something you would want to do while trying to connect with diety? isn't that connection something you would like to remember the next morning?I've been stoned many many times in my life and I can remember perfectly everything that happened during those experiences. If it doesn't work for you, fine; but I don't think you have any business passing moral judgment on those of us who think differently.

Allow me to clarify my position: I fully support the use of mind-altering substances for the purposes of religious ritual. Contrary to what most others appear to think, I think that ritual intoxication is a good way to bring oneself closer to divinity. And anyone who wants to condemn me for that can go straight to the jaws of Apep for all I care.

Garm

February 9th, 2009, 08:22 PM

In a past tense, the answer is a resounding yes

However, reading psychology before hand and philosophy after allowed me to make enough sense of all the confusing and contradictory input to significantly enhance my understanding of the reality around me and if the impressions hadn't the means to grow in to concepts it all would have amounted to no more than a way of wasting my time

It's a shame that the ethos of a consumer society misleads so many in to treating tools like candy, in that way lies nastyness of every which sort

Respect their power, reap their rewards

Treat the relationship casually, expect to be a casualty

Shawn Blackwolf

February 9th, 2009, 08:30 PM

Scott , you are running an interesting program of perception ,
regarding my statements , and views...

Let me see if I can rewire that program...

One...as I stated , and linked you to...Owsley was a name we
could rely on for dosage and purity , during the time I was
taking LSD...as refering to your post , regarding your friend...

It had nothing to do with him being famous , though he was...

Dosages are not standardized , nor is manufacture as important
to many , though not all , of those involved in psychedelics , as
it was to many of us from that time...

So , experiences such as your friend had , were nothing we had
to worry about , at least within the circles I frequented...

I also take a strong stance , on air , water , food , movement ,
music , and sonics , all being drugs , by the definition of changing
consciousness...we are on drugs , from our first breath...

Actually...:bigredgri...we are on drugs , from the moment of inception...

As well , I have no problem with your choices , or methods...

And no malice...though , you may percieve through the lens
you choose , and program of perception you choose to run...:uhhuhuh:

I disagree with some of your statements , and opinions , as
well some others in this thread...and we agree on some points ,
as well...

I have stated previously , I have not taken psychedelics for many ,
many years...not since my second DMT experience , when the
Spirit Helpers made it clear I had more than opened the Doors
of Perception permanently , and did not need those tools , to assist ;

I do strongly disagree with you , that one cannot have full control over
the psychedelic experience , and utilize it , to navigate the
hyperdimensional spaces , and pathways of the mind...

Drug , Dosage , Environment...three part harmony...

However , you , of course , are free to believe as you choose , which shall
predetermine your experience...science of the mind , so to say ;

I wish you well on your journey...whatever methods you choose...

Perhaps now you may choose to see there was no need to defend your personal choices...:uhhuhuh:

However , certain of your statements had more sweeping implications , and broad brush stances , than that...Blessings...

Shawn Blackwolf

February 9th, 2009, 08:52 PM

Just an addendum , regarding the three part harmony ,
of Drug , Dosage , Environment ;

I strongly recommend not taking many hits of LSD ,
and watching the Exorcist in a crowded theatre...

And do not , under any circumstances , tap your
friend on the shoulder in the seat in front of you ,
while he is watching the movie , and tripping...

As well , my recommendation , is not to take large
amounts of peyote tea , outside of ritualistic use , then
go with friends to see Death Race 2000 , followed by
driving on the freeway , to a Rolling Stones concert...

Lastly , taking multiple psychedelics , and other drugs ,
together , on a class field trip , then riding in a crowded
glass elevator , or , end up telling everyone on the bus ,
you see Mescalito , running alongside the bus , holding
an ear of corn , and waving at you...

Parameters of the experiment , are most important...:thumbsup:

DoktorSick

February 9th, 2009, 10:27 PM

JR Bob Dobbs once said " I use illict drugs and sometimes religion plays a roll"

FiresSong

February 10th, 2009, 10:35 AM

WitchJezebel

February 10th, 2009, 01:48 PM

draguakale

February 11th, 2009, 11:55 AM

To (loosely) quote Katt Williams, "It's not a drug, it's a plant. It just grows like that. And if you should so happen to set it on fire...there are some effects. But that's not the same as drugs, you have to do something to those chemically! You have to add baking soda, water, stir it up...I don't know the recipe, I'm just saying."

That always makes me giggle.

All joking aside...I'm a-okay with natural mind-altering substances, but not for ritual. I prefer to do that all on my owney.

*pretends I'm holding a j* "This *hit right here ... This *hit right here ... This *hit right here ... will *u^& you up!"

I love that little guy! Kat Williams that is. He gets very physical with his comedy. White people and putting their kids on "leashes".

And from what I can remember I think that quote is exact!

draguakale

February 11th, 2009, 12:00 PM

Ritual intoxication was a very important practice in many ancient religions, and to some extent it is still an important practice in some traditions today. The cult of Dionysus is a most excellent example. While I do not begrudge anyone their right to have a differing opinion, I think some of the attitudes I've seen expressed in this thread are clearly made in ignorance, such as the following:

(1) Not everyone on this board worships your god/goddess.

(2) Considering how many ancient traditions involved the use of mind-altering substances as a way of reaching the divine, I don't think it's an issue of disrespect so much as it is a matter of opinion.

(3) While some of the people who claim to speak for Him may claim differently, my God has never given me any indication whatsoever that He finds drug use in ritual to be "disrespectful." Perhaps your deities have given you such a rule, but my God is famous for being a drunkard.

(4) Therefore, your estimation that it is impossible to enter a ritual with "perfect love and perfect trust" while intoxicated is fallacious.

I think you are making an overgeneralization here about people who use drugs. People who use drugs are not always under the control of those drugs. E.g., just because some drinkers might be weaklings who eventually become alcoholics does not mean everyone who drinks is weak.

I can't think of anything horrible that anyone I know has ever done while high. At least, not while high on marijuana. Alcohol is a different issue, but again, it is an issue of the user being a weakling, not of the substance being morally reprehensible. Drugs are like guns and religion - they don't kill people; people kill people.

I've been stoned many many times in my life and I can remember perfectly everything that happened during those experiences. If it doesn't work for you, fine; but I don't think you have any business passing moral judgment on those of us who think differently.

Allow me to clarify my position: I fully support the use of mind-altering substances for the purposes of religious ritual. Contrary to what most others appear to think, I think that ritual intoxication is a good way to bring oneself closer to divinity. And anyone who wants to condemn me for that can go straight to the jaws of Apep for all I care.

:uhhuhuh::clapping:

NocturnalSpirit

February 27th, 2009, 10:06 PM

For meditation Salvia helps a lot for me. Like a lot of previous post on here it's not for magic use during magic, everyone needs to have a clear head on that one. If you do smoke salvia make sure to use 5x or 10x max. Anything higher and it wont be a meditation boost, but a massive trip and you will not be able to concentrate at all. If you are going to have a ritual that is going to last a few hours then you need to get ahold of some foilage. Its much less intense and it will last for about 2 hours. Alot of people say salvia doesnt work and that it is simply BS. There is such a thing called "hardheads" where certian people are not affected by Salvia. Try it before you judge it. Also to help out those who are kindy afraid of it, It does not show up on drug test and also is not habit forming.

Enjoy

Ambertree

February 27th, 2009, 11:28 PM

of course not
its hard enough to focus as it is

Shawn Blackwolf

February 28th, 2009, 12:31 AM

Well , Ambertree...

For some of us , they increase focus , and expand awareness...

of course not
its hard enough to focus as it is

draguakale

February 28th, 2009, 01:20 AM

For meditation Salvia helps...

Salvia or Satvia? Is that the scientific name?

blithespirit

February 28th, 2009, 03:43 AM

Salvia or Satvia? Is that the scientific name?

Salvia divinorum is what you're after. :thumbsup:

Clash of Vision

February 28th, 2009, 03:53 AM

Last time I consumed a load of brownies I went on one hell of a trip.

I'm not quite sure if I ever came out of it.

ignescentphoenix

March 1st, 2009, 06:27 AM

I don't include weed in my spiritual practices.

Although, I sometimes have spiritual experiences when Im under the influence.

ignescentphoenix

March 1st, 2009, 06:28 AM

Salvia divinorum is what you're after. :thumbsup:

*shudders*

I hate that stuff.

It felt like I was fragmented and pulled into another dimension. It was highly unpleasant.

draguakale

March 3rd, 2009, 12:35 AM

Sounds fun!

draguakale

March 3rd, 2009, 12:37 AM

TY Blithe, is that another one of those white people can't own things?

ignescentphoenix

March 3rd, 2009, 12:44 AM

Sounds fun!

Meh, everyone should try it once.

I suggest doing it with a close friend and NOT while you drive.

lightdragon

March 3rd, 2009, 06:18 AM

interesting topic.

never used illegal drugs in a ritual.
I once drank large quanties of caffine(a latte and some soda) in ritual as it was supposed to give you a boost. never did. drinking mead did give some effects. but all this stuff is legal. at least for people over 21.

also would i condemn someone for it, no.

green aventurine

March 3rd, 2009, 10:26 AM

While I have interests in shamanism, I personally don't use drugs/plants of any kind when journeying, or for going into altered states in general, although I'm aware that some do and it works for them. I prefer to work with drumming tapes, meditation (breath/visualisation), crystals and trees amongst other things.

St. Bunny ofthe Nail

March 3rd, 2009, 01:46 PM

I do not use drugs specifically for ritual, though some of my most powerful magical experiences have come while I was under the influence. I do believe that I could have had any of those experiences while "clean," but there is just something about a THC haze over reality that makes things different...
I have an easier time getting lost in myself and the universe with something to quiet my mind, but I feel a greater sense of achievement when it is done without... chemical assistance, if you will.
I also hold very dear to me a goddess of marijuana, for whom use in and of itself is a form of ritual worship, but my current life situation has dictated that she retire from queenship in my personal pantheon and wait for my life to achieve a state of balance so I may return to said worship.

Glowingsun

March 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM

Drugs play absolutley no role in any part of my life. I'm damn proud of myself for never trying illicit drugs.

ignescentphoenix

March 3rd, 2009, 05:17 PM

Drugs play absolutley no role in any part of my life. I'm damn proud of myself for never trying illicit drugs.

Here is a cookie _cookie_.

Shawn Blackwolf

March 3rd, 2009, 05:23 PM

Well said...ROTFLMAO...:bigredgri

Here is a cookie _cookie_.

daphnerose

March 4th, 2009, 12:38 AM

The only thing I could add to this beaten like a dead horse topic, is, if you haven't tried it, don't bash it.
If you don't know what it does, what the effects of it are, then why say it its bad? How can you? Fact is, as stated by many others before me, peoples thru time have utilized *illegal drugs* on their spiritual journeys. I really get sick of those who are supposedly open minded pagans acting like granny panties when others use methods that they may not agree with to achieve their own spiritual paths.
Personally, as someone in the medical health field I've seen what those *illegal* drugs can do for someone dying from cancer, and think they are wonderous. I guess it would take a loved one dying from lung cancer and see them being able to sleep and eat from taking said drugs to convert most. I say, if you don't have the experience, hush. Cuz, in the jist of things, if you don't know what you are talking about then you can't really express too much of an opinion on it.
And bty...I think using illegal drugs...as what is really the context of the question is implied..is up to the user.
daphnerose

draguakale

March 4th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Here is a cookie _cookie_.

HS! That's funny as hell! I said the exact same thing, then saw your post!

draguakale

March 4th, 2009, 09:42 AM

draguakale

March 4th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Meh, everyone should try it once.

I suggest doing it with a close friend and NOT while you drive.

Yeah, if I do it, my boyfriend will be with me. I saw how I think it was Mark of the Mark and Olly live with the Machigenga (sorry if it's spelled wrong) that had a bad trip on the agawhaca (I KNOW that's spelled wrong) that the Shaman gave them. He kept wandering off and wanted to go into the river. Psychotropics are not something I want to drive while under the influence of. I would LOVE to go to a Ren. Fest and take a psycotropic.

Morgane

March 4th, 2009, 11:12 AM

We did not have the problems you describe...

Different times...yes...:bigredgri

I couldn't agree more...

And what I would give to have a full fledged flashback to the evening I spent lying in the weeds as a mescaline induced snake! :uhhuhuh:

Those were the days!

I so loved the hallucinogens!

Anyone remember the capsule form of THC? I spent two hours trying to figure out how to keep a door upright so I could make my exit. The concentration level I reached watching that doorway flip was absolutely amazing!

I haven't done any hallucinogens in years, and probably won't. I don't know anyone that I would trust enough to buy them from anymore.

My focus is off with pot, so I don't use it on a spiritual level!

draguakale

March 5th, 2009, 01:40 PM

My focus is off with pot, so I don't use it on a spiritual level!

Pot makes you ADD, huh? That's odd. Oh well each of us reacts differently.

~Nixie

March 5th, 2009, 11:00 PM

hitman

March 5th, 2009, 11:17 PM

No. I've tried evoking while I was tripping on acid, and got absolutely nothing. I've gotten fullblown physical manifestations when sober. But I tried to evoke Goetia style while I was peaking during an acid trip, and got absolutely nothing.

draguakale

March 16th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Would you take this drug with these side effects?
Impaired Judgement
Death
Stroke
Confusion
Uncontrolled Muscle Movements
Dizziness
Siezure
Difficulty swallowing
Now what drug is this? Is it a horrible illegal one? NO It is Abilify! Watch your TV ads! These are the side effects. Are any of these side effects of marajuana? I haven't heard of anyone dying from using marajuana, nor any of the other side effects. So just because it's legal doesn't mean it's any safer!

Morgane

March 17th, 2009, 08:02 AM

Unfortunately, draguakale, most prescription drugs have those side effects and worse!

When they do the clinical trials, the pharma is forced to list any instance of potential side effects that occurs with any of the patients in the controlled trial groups. The trials go on for months, so you can easily see how any of the "side effects" you listed could occur within the population used for the study. Whether it is related to the actual drug or not usually isn't determined until the drug has been in use for quite some time on the general public, outside the trial. That's how they wound up with the big mess with Vioxx and some of those other anti-inflammatories.

This is how the big pharma covers ass....

Rainbow

March 28th, 2009, 05:20 PM

I've used mind-altering herbs and stuff but nothing illegal.

Pagan Mantis

April 4th, 2009, 05:29 AM

I haven't read any of the previous posts, so please excuse any redundancy in this reply. I'm a huge advocate in the legalization of weed, but I personally cannot use any drugs in moderation, alcohol included. I feel that weed may evoke quite a bit of our creative genius.

I also feel that if used properly, mushrooms and LSD have an even greater effect in bringing out some of our creative genius. I know people who have this rare gift... again, I cannot use these drugs for spiritual purposes, but have had spiritual experiences through the use of both, ironically.

I feel that cocaine and crack are simply wrong in any way, shape or form, as there is no such thing as moderation with these. There are certain types of speed that my brain and body require to function, as I'm sure we are all familiar with ADD. These are prescribed and monitored carefully though.

Opiates should only be used in the case of extreme pain, and even then should be used with extreme caution. I could see where heroin and opium would bring about a certain level of spiritual "seeking," however, too addictive for any real progress...

To answer the question, I cannot use any illicit drugs in moderation, so they have absolutely no part in my path. I do know people who have used all sorts of different illicit drugs in such a way that they were in search of something, in order to further their level of consciousness. I hope that made sense, and please keep in mind this is only my opinion... lol.

Cielamara

April 25th, 2009, 03:36 PM

No, never have. Probably never will. I am not comfortable with the risks involved, and I promised my mother. (What? :P) In addition to that, I have GAD and ADHD and am currently being treated for that. It's not usually regarded as being a good idea to play Russian roulette with your neurochemistry.

I will admit to being uncomfortable around drugs. The legal issues make me uncomfortable, as do the uncertainties of what the drugs might actually do. But that said...if people feel they need chemicals to do their thing...I don't really care. So long as they leave me alone, which, for the most part, people do. :)

Toki Wartooth

April 25th, 2009, 04:27 PM

No.

blugirrl1

April 25th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Crowley and several other magicians, as well as Shaman priests and Voudou practitioners have partaken in the use of what we call, "illegal substances" during magical rituals and ceremonies which in turn have given us some of the best occult knowledge out there. Some say that ones magical working is more successful with the use of these substances. They tend to see, hear, feel, and overall, experience more while under the influence. Most of these people have written books and paved the way for future magicians in the years to come. So the question at hand is, if most of our magical roots come from someones experience while under the influence of a psychadelic drug, then is the magic that we have learned been just the hallucination of anothers imagination?

Just some food for thought. It will be interesting to see peoples own answer for this one.

great question, and as i toked a bowl before hopping online, one that had me going 'whoooa dude, heavy what if, lol
i tend to the kitchen, green, hedgery path and so don't lay claim to "paganism, wicca" ( broooad generalization, but my point being is my magical roots come from Mother Earth, and these "roots" you speak of is just another witches personal enterpretation. if that makes any sense?

good question, maybe not the best answer . :)

that being said, my anwer to the original question is, i smoke herb, cook with herb, and use herb in magical workings ( most recent went into a witches bottle for peace of mind, and peace good stuff for home and all in my home) * also use herbs, in various ways. i have used lots of drugs in my past, and while some have turned into witchy experience, i don't seek them out to use for practice purposes. but if i felt the need, or came across some, timing was right, energy i felt was right then yes i would.
but as PaganMantis said about liking and indulging, i have a voracious appetite for buzzes of all sorts. tend to call myself an equal opportunistic buzzist:mmm: (though not as much as in my younger days, lol)
.

darkNight

June 22nd, 2009, 10:23 PM

I know this is a semi-old thread, but just came across it.

There is a section of the Old Testament where it gives the "recipe" for the annointing oil for the items and people (such as the, ahem... "high priest"... Aaron) serving the tabernacle. Exodus 30:23:

American King James Version (http://kjv.us/exodus/30.htm)
Take you also to you principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,

The thing about sweet calamus is that it contains an ingredient called aserone, which when it breaks down in the body becomes trimethoxyamphetamine or the street drug, ecstasy.

Then again, some consider sweet calamus to be Kawneh Bosem, or cannabis.

Was it either of them? I don't know. Still, it gives me the giggles to picture Jesus (as the "annointed one" and the annointing oil contained this ingredient, either Thc or MDMA) as either the "high priest" or "tripping Jesus". Now the latter would be a good name for a band.:smile:

As for myself, recreationally... I see absolutely zilch wrong with recreational use of any drug. The problem is, how many people can use crack recreationally without abusing it? Personally, I deal with marijuana consumption a helluva lot better than I ever did with alcohol <shudders, trying to remember those alcoholic days>.

Bindi

June 23rd, 2009, 05:32 AM

i hope no one judges me but.... i do smoke pot(for pain relief) on a daily basis. i feel that it has opened me up creatively.

i try not to be under the influence while preforming rituals but havent found it to hinder my spirituality at all. my tarot readings are just as clear and accurate when im under the influence.
i dream very vividly still and still feel very spiritualy connected to myself and the universe regardless of weather i have had a smoke or not. but thats just me , cant say it would be the same for everyone though and i dont condone it either. especialy if you have or are prone to mental illness. i think it also depends on the reasons why you are taking drugs too.

zombi

June 23rd, 2009, 09:00 AM

No.

*oonagh*

June 23rd, 2009, 10:52 AM

no.

Bindi

June 24th, 2009, 05:03 AM

Who are you to say how I experience the Goddess/God? or how anyone else does either?

i totaly agree !! each to there own and be tolerant of others choices.

just because some one chooses to experament with drugs does not mean they are bad people or should be judged and vice versa

your path is your own, it is up to you and you only to decide how you reach spiritual awareness.

Trevor

June 24th, 2009, 06:36 AM

Erm...When I was younger, we lived next door to a guy who had a bunch of marijuana plants growing in his backyard. My brother told me about it. This was when I was just beginning to experiment with different things magically (and not, lol.) So, I knew from watching my brother and feeling what the stuff did to me what it was capable of doing. So, being an idiot kid, I snuck into this guy's backyard and stole a bunch of it. Took it home...but it in my "cauldron." Burned it.

Was pretty high for a few days...

darkNight

July 12th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Came across this a couple of days back. Didn't know there was such an animal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut

Also heard the term Nueronaut to refer to the same.

amidalen

August 15th, 2009, 11:18 AM

I don't (and don't think I ever will) but people that live with me do.

HiccupingBat

August 15th, 2009, 11:36 AM

I've tried pot, the last time I did it was bad pot and someone took advantage of my "bad trip".

My friend wants to introduce me to some other herbs just so I can have at least one good experience again. I agreed to because it seems like it's worth exploring.

The less complicated answer :weirdsmil is no. I actually find it takes away from spirituality, so far.

Shilme

October 3rd, 2009, 06:22 PM

when I have the opportunity yes, yes I do. As far as I can tell my gods enjoy it as much if not more than I do especially because when I invite them to join me I usually end up far more baked than I usually do. Honestly yeah there are a lot of legal things I could do that would also give me a high but they are way worse for me than Mary Jane ever could be. When I was younger I experimented a bit with self-asphyxiation and occasionally that caused me to hallucinate, would I ever do it again no no I wouldn't. Occasionally I get asked to smoke cigarettes too but I do not. If salvia didn't taste so terrible I would probably try that again too even though the first and only time I did it I didn't get much of anything. There are a lot of drugs I wouldn't do but I would never say that they would be bad for any spiritual trip.

_Lucid_

October 10th, 2009, 01:34 AM

Nope. I feel mind-altering drugs take the mind further away from the Divine, not closer.

sorry but, you could not have been farther from the truth phoenix. Psychedelics can bring you so realistically close to the divine its not even funny. i have had many many divine and spiritual experiences with many different substances, and the experiences were real, not what some people call it a drug induced stupor.... if you need more information just let me know

Incendia

October 10th, 2009, 02:59 AM

In my case, no. Even though I've only dealt with two (Greek) Gods - they seem to communicate pretty effectively without "help." That said, doesn't rule out the necessity of such aid in the future. *Dionysos comes to mind.*

vnvrymdreglage

March 30th, 2010, 12:15 AM

I had the opportunity to experience DOB (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dob/dob.shtml) over the weekend, which if you don't know is a rather uncommon amphetamine psychedelic.

I experienced some truly stunning things: watching the earth change before me, seeing grass grow out of the ground, being able to psychedelically experience the life in every plant around me. I opened my blinds to see the brilliance of the outside before me, light beaming through the window like rays coming from heaven. I could feel the universe holding my hand, filling me with warmth, and reminding me that I'm always protected and loved.

Because of the nature of this particular chemical, it is more of a visual and sensory experience as opposed to the more spiritual nature of entheogens such as mescaline, psilocybin, DMT, etc. However, it was still fantastic. My only complaint is that it was too 'energetic' being an amphetamine and the duration (18-30 hours is common) is far too much for me.

TuathaSidhe

March 30th, 2010, 10:35 AM

Never have, never will and I probably wouldn't do a ritual with anyone who does. Im solitary so not like that matters. I do not believe that it brings you closer to the divine or whatever. My mothers side of the family is filled with drug "experiments" and use so I wont touch it, with the exception of weed that ive tried a few times, but not for ritual or spiritual reasons.

With that said though, do whatever ya want, im not gonna try to control it. lol :thumbsup:

~*Sacred*~

March 30th, 2010, 10:43 AM

No, being on drugs doesn't bring you closer to the divine IMO.

Cassie

March 30th, 2010, 11:03 AM

Illicit drugs are not required in my path but I don't think they would be prohibited either. Having said that, I would be extremely wary of any belief system, leader or guru type that required anyone to take any substance that they were uncomfortable with or which was illegal.
Celebration and intoxication do play a part in my beliefs and practices and I have experimented with various things in the past but usually good old fashioned alcohol does the trick for me.

Twinkle

March 30th, 2010, 04:02 PM

How interesting.

Illicit drugs would be illegal, no?

If that's the case, why would *anyone* admit to taking them publicly unless it was a drug cleared for religious use like Peyote....

~*Sacred*~

March 30th, 2010, 04:35 PM

How interesting.

Illicit drugs would be illegal, no?

If that's the case, why would *anyone* admit to taking them publicly unless it was a drug cleared for religious use like Peyote....
Because the majority of people in the world have done drugs before so it's not a surprise?

Twinkle

March 30th, 2010, 04:37 PM

No...I get that part. If I was using illicit drugs as part of my path (which I don't, but you get the point) it doesn't make sense to have that info out there publicly where anyone could read it and use that information.

Maybe I'm just more cautious about what I put out there publicly than others.

Carry on. :)

~*Sacred*~

March 30th, 2010, 04:46 PM

Tavthe

August 6th, 2010, 01:15 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed the use of MJ from 1994-2002, about the same span as my nicotine habit. And when around friends it turned me into a giggling mess. I never laughed so hard in all my life - at everything. But I'm told that laughter is good for the soul. Alcohol, on the other hand, when I ingest too much reminds me of a sad past, and about many other things that soaks me with the deepest melancholy I have ever seen. Suffering from chronic depression already doesn't help matters. I have also tried shrooms, which gave me a headache, and mj laced with cocaine, which I learned very quickly was not what I signed up for.

My best friend tried acid once. He was already psychologically damaged before that, and now he's under the presumption that a conspiracy against him has been in motion since kindergarten. I'm not saying its from the acid. It could be due to a number of factors overlying his mental illness.

My mother died from lung and liver cancer, as she was both a drinker and a smoker. And because of it, my father was terrified that I too would suffer addiction to alcohol. That didn't exactly happen. I still drink though much less nowadays, rather socially, or even when I'm at home. But the pantry is stocked with alcohol I only seldom use in food prep. Sadly, my nephew, whose mother is also an alcoholic, cannot distinguish between people who drink free of addiction, and alcoholics.

I learned with alcohol, as with marijuana, that it did not take long to build up a tolerance, at which point it would require more to achieve a particular level of highness. That can be both good and bad, depending on your perspective. What's important for me to mention, is that the use of MJ opened up a gate, that enabled me to access things within the subconscious that had previously been hidden. As some have talked about reprogramming the consciousness, that might actually help me to explain this next bit.

When nobody else was around, I used it to expand consciousness. To sit, and look inward at myself. It always took me outward, and repeated use enabled me to see differently than I had before. I was, in effect, reprogramming the way that I perceive the world around me, and the spaces that remained unseen. I started drawing more, pulling things out of the seat of the soul, accessing those obscure PLMs (past life memories). It helped me to quiet the noise inside of my head (a primary reason why I have always had trouble meditating in the past). I started to channel written languages I've never seen before. I found solace from an increasing feeling of dis-satisfaction with the world, and the growing loneliness that ensued.

Eight years, post-MJ, many of these abilities are still with me, with an added bonus. There are some reports (I'd have to look them up) that a small percentage of Marijuana users develop the ability to naturally mimic the sensations that they felt while they were using. At random times, I experience these moments of spontaneous trance, and the occasional possession. By whom? I have no idea. Someone who just likes to sit and look around as if peering out of a window at the outside world.

I'm not hell-bent on always maintaining control over my own experiences. I notice that the majority of these posts are concerned with losing control. I remember my mother once told me the reason why she did not enjoy marijuana was because she didn't feel like she had any control over her body. The way I see it, sometimes if you want to learn something you have to be willing to sacrifice that control. And its been my experience that sometimes you learn more by going with the flow than fighting against the current.

LadyDryad

August 7th, 2010, 10:56 PM

Nope. I feel mind-altering drugs take the mind further away from the Divine, not closer.

I agree 100%.

töbi

August 31st, 2010, 12:12 PM

Not in my path, no, but I'll indulge every now and then just for the experience (I restrict myself purposefully to things that grow naturally without any processing: Leaves and fungi). I feel like I have this human body and this human mind and there are tons of experiences out there for me to have; there are perspectives I've never considered, things I've never felt. I'd like to experience what I can in a safe way before I finally kick the bucket.

metalgypsy

August 31st, 2010, 07:55 PM

No. Not in my spiritual path nor any other part of my life. I have used in the past, I just don't see any productive purpose to it anymore.

Mariposita

August 31st, 2010, 10:24 PM

I currently do not, and never have, but I would like to try it in the future. I am not trying even legal ways because I am looking for employment. I do not have a set path yet though. Whatever helps you in your journey! If you know you will react badly or use it too much to the point it affects your day to day life and health, then it is a problem. Otherwise, I don't care.

I would prefer legal ones over illicit because I'd rather use something I can buy easily and not have to worry about getting put in jail. I've wanted to try salvia, but it seems to have been made illegal over time in different places.

Nox_Mortus

August 31st, 2010, 11:48 PM

ehh in my experience the illegal stuff is cheaper and easier to acquire than the illegal stuff, also with salvia you need to get a bong if you don't want to hack your lungs out. On the bright side though, there's no test for it. If you want something legal that's actually easy to take and is less likely to make you feel like you just went to hell, try looking for hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, they contain a chemical similar to LSD (which nobody ever tests for) are legal, and are usually pretty cheap, just make sure you find a supplier that doesn't coat their seeds with nausea inducing agents.

Doodlebug

September 15th, 2010, 02:59 AM

Nope, illicit drugs do not play a part in my path. I have never used illicit drugs and I never will. I don't believe in violating the law unless the law is just totally unjust like say if it were to ban the religion of Wicca or something.

DragonMare

September 17th, 2010, 12:22 PM

RaeCori

September 17th, 2010, 12:36 PM

I feel that one cannot get close to the blessed One if their mind is altered... I Am a greatfully recovering Drug addict and i have never felt closer to The One than i am now through prayer and meditation, Free from all mind and mood altering chemicals!

DragonMare

I agree completely. Clarity of mind can only amplify your mental and emotional abilities.

Congratulations! Recovery is not easy and every day spent sober is a blessing! :hugz:

Phoenix_Falls

September 17th, 2010, 01:23 PM

I am of the opinion that if it grows out of the ground, the Divine wants you to have it. That said, everything in moderation (mind-alterers are like birthday cake: it's good once in a while, but I don't want to eat that crap every day).

I don't do drugs in relation to my path although I have taken drugs for spiritual reasons. I don't agree that drugs keeps you from the Divine, I believe that they may keep you from certain aspects of the Divine, that they certainly have the potential to be abused and misused and that not all drugs are good for spiritual purposes, but I don't think my ancestors were pushing themselves away from the Divine when they used mind-altering substances/mixtures to go on vision quests.

That particular point is all a matter of opinion. Of course, I also don't believe that drugs are required to get one closer to the Divine. I think that using drugs for spiritual purposes has two intentions:
1- expediting the outcome of going about it the non-drug way (using drugs is often quicker, more immediate spiritual satisfaction)

2- helps people to not doubt themselves. A lot of problems people have with manipulating/using/drawing spiritual/natural energies (not even getting to the aspect of actually conversing with a deity) is that they doubt themselves too much. They're in a state of over thinking and certain substances are good for circumventing this.

I do NOT believe that the use of natural drugs (ie: they grow out of the ground the way they are intended to be used/there's no chemical process and nothing other than drying/grinding/boiling/smoking/cooking the plant occurs) is for everyone.

I do NOT believe that every drug ever made will work towards a spiritual end (I obviously ascribe to the organic drug thoughts)

I do NOT believe that organic drugs keep you from the Divine, but I DO believe that your reaction to these drugs may do just that. Since every person's reaction to drugs (not to mention their initial intent) is different, they'll effect people differently on a spiritual level as well.

I do NOT agree with using drugs every time one wants to get close to the Divine. Like I said before, the things that are accomplished with organic drugs can be done completely sober as well and should be, for the most part.