Persephone's journey

[Ganga]

I read in The Mysteries of the Dark Moon that the pre-Hellenic version (ie. the older, original story) of the Persephone's journey did not include any mention of rape.

It has always bothered me that Persephone was raped by Pluto (according to Homer) and Pluto was never punished for it. On top of that, she was supposedly tricked to return to him periodically, thanks to the diplomatic arrangement worked out by Zeuss. Well, the older version tells us that Persephone descended to the Underworld voluntarily when she felt sorry for the souls who have to travel there without any guide, or anyone to welcome them. Every spring Persephone returns to visit her grieving mother, and the nature blooms again.

In the Eleusian mysteries, during the lesser, first-level initiation, a drama was played, depicting Persephone's descent (Homer's version). She smells the intoxicating fragrance of a narcissus, the flower of sexual desire, and the earth opens up. Pluto comes up to ravage her and pull her to the Underworld. This I see as a very patriarchal idea. Rather makes me angry.

Of course, I always preferred to see Homer's interpretation of the story symbolically: as we give in to our desires (not just sexual) we embark on a journey and are forced to change and grow. Sometimes giving in to some desires is a mistake from which we are forced to learn. But the fact remains that the original story was changed due to whatever influence. It was good to read the older version. It made me think that not all desires are bad (such as Persephone's compassionate desire to help those who have to gone to the Underworld), even if they do lead us into difficulties.

[Hamelyn]

To be honest with you, I hadn't known that he supposedly raped her. Interesting version, and yes, it does sound rather pat.. err. You know, that one word. ~_~;;;


I appreciate Persephone, and sometimes contemplate consulting her. I have a soft spot in my heart for that story, in various aspects. The change of seasons, the ascent into power, the empathetic sensations that could drive a woman, no matter how mythical, into standing up in a world of darkness for the goodness of those who couldn't help their own lot. Considering the story's later relationship with a pretty flower that alludes to sexual intimacy, I tend to view Perspephone as a divine figure who cares enough to grant your desires, and the firm tone to shatter your illusions if she must. She is desirable and seductive without the need to try, but merciless when asked for her aid.

And no, I don't know why I shared that. I'm just getting things out of my system lately, where I can lookit 'em... *blinks a little* Opinion augmented by The Urban Primitive, btw.

[BTW, thanks for telling me more versions of the tale. YAY!]

[Arzhela]

Yeah, the story has always ticked me off immensely.

Just another version I thought I'd share: D'Aulaire gives the story as Persephone was just walking around and the ground split open to reveal Hades, who tossed her into his chariot and took her to the underworld. There Persephone could not be happy, no matter what Hades tried to do for her. Eventually, wandering around, she ended up tasting a pomegranate, the only tree/fruit that grew in the underworld on the banks of the river Styx. By the time Demeter had finally persuaded Zeus to send Hermes for her daughter, it was too late, because anyone who had eaten of the pomegranate tree had to return to the underworld. To pacify Demeter a system was arranged by which Persephone would spend only a part of the year in the underworld.

[Azure]

Um, just as a note, the word "rape" in modern connotation is always translated as a sexual crime, but in the past, the word meant kidnap or carry off - hence the "Rape of the Sabine Women" and other such stories. In the musical The Fantasticks, written in the 1950s, there's a song about carrying off a girl who is in love with her would-be kidnapper, that uses the term "rape" in the older context, and many contemporary audiences can't make the connection.

Hence, when Hades rapes Persephone in Graves and Hamilton and other versions of the story, mostly written down in the late 19th to mid 20th centuries, the implication is that he carries her off.

The version I was taught as a child in Athens indicated that Hades had fallen instantly in love with her, and wished to marry her.

Other later stories often show her as a benevolent Queen of the Underworld (as in some versions of the Orpheous legends) and much beloved wife when she is in the Underworld. So the implications there aren't all bad.

There is plenty of stuff in old myths that is "patriarchal" - that is, implies female inferiority, but it's important to understand all the implications of the stories, including etimology of language, before you make your assumptions. :)

[Mnemosyne]

You guys have all brought up interesting points. I'll add more tomorrow when I have more time, but I felt like writing one point now. When I read the myth that suggested that Persephone was "raped," I was deeply disturbed. I think that she was carried off and not raped. In Latin, the word "rapio," means to "carry off" or "snatch." The cognitive of the verb is "rape," so it kind of brings us some confusion.

[Ganga]

"it's important to understand all the implications of the stories, including etimology of language"

I agree with that - a good point. The same holds true to old stories from other countries, too, and keeping it in mind helps us to understand better.

I still prefer to think that Persephone descended of her own will, though. Perhaps Demeter felt she was "carried away", as mothers tend to think when their daughters grow up and make their independent choices. As I read further in The Mysteries of the Dark Moon, I found out that the myth also (among other things) teaches us about mother-daughter relationships, ie. the need of a daughter to go, and the need of the mother and daughter to come together again when the mother has turned into a crone and the daughter into a mother. In some versions, Persephone returns to her mother with an infant on her arms.

[Arduinna]

Haven't the mysteries of the dark moon version but from what I remember of the other versions Persephone didn't eat while she was in Hades (until the trick). If she had gone of her own free will, wouldn't she have eaten while she there? Unless she knew that if you eat while there you can't leave? The versions I've read suggest that she didn't know that (that's why tricking her to eat).

interesting......

and yes I agree about the rape thing. I never took to mean the modern definition of rape.

in a way Hades was punished, since she didn't live year round as his bride there.

[Mnemosyne]

BUMP

:boing:

Here's some discussion on the Persephone. Great interpretations on the her descent to the Underworld! :)

[Mnemosyne]

Once again, I have to bump this thread up. :D I think some of you seeking info on Hades and Persephone can really value some of these thoughts.

[cydira]

While some of you may not find the concept of rape in the modern definition being applied to the Kore myth, I'd have to say that it's one that can be helpful.

As a survivor of rape and domestic abuse, I've found new meaning to the myth of Kore and Hades in the light of my experiences. In the myth, I have come to view Kore turning the situation around and taking control of it, by becoming the Queen of the Underworld rather then a prisoner.

That's just my two cents, though.