How to be more tolerant

[Bartmanhomer]

Hello. First off, in my previous posts. I was being disrespectful for one path that I have a hard time to tolerate, Athiest. So out of everybody who Athiest. I'm sorry. You guys are all right. I just want to be how to be more tolerated with that path. Any comments.

[GEBS]

Recognize that they have as much right to NOT believe as you do to believe. It's that simple. You don't have to understand their point of view, just respect their right to have it. :)

[draguakale]

I agree with GEBS, that is one of the big things about Wicca (I'm not sure if you are Wiccan or what...) but Wicca is very accepting.


BTW GEBS, issue fixed.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm Christian actually.

[draguakale]

I'm Christian actually.


Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Matthew (not sure the chapter and verse but I think it's 11:14 correct me if I'm wrong).

Would you want them to respect your faith? Then respect theirs or their lack of.

[Bartmanhomer]

matthew 11:14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. that what my bible said!

[watersprite]

Hello. First off, in my previous posts. I was being disrespectful for one path that I have a hard time to tolerate, Athiest. So out of everybody who Athiest. I'm sorry. You guys are all right. I just want to be how to be more tolerated with that path. Any comments.

That's their own personal path. Path bashing is not tolerated here, that's what I hear.

[Glowy]

Hey BMH~ you have already made progress with this thread:clapping:

Way to go:ballonsmi

[draguakale]

That's their own personal path. Path bashing is not tolerated here, that's what I hear.


WOW! Where was the bashing, coz I missed it and I have read every post completely. As far as I know, BHM just stated that he didn't understand Atheism and wanted to know how to be more tolerant. Or was it somewhere else? In which case, there was an apology in the beginning, and the past has no business being brought into a different topic.

[Infinite Grey]

Hello. First off, in my previous posts. I was being disrespectful for one path that I have a hard time to tolerate, Athiest. So out of everybody who Athiest. I'm sorry. You guys are all right. I just want to be how to be more tolerated with that path. Any comments.

Why would you have a problem with Atheists? We're not the ones that have been screwing up the world to date. :thumbsup:

[Agaliha]

WOW! Where was the bashing, coz I missed it and I have read every post completely. As far as I know, BHM just stated that he didn't understand Atheism and wanted to know how to be more tolerant.


It wasn't in this thread, but another. He started this thread because of what happened in another, he apparently wants to lean how to be more tolerant of Atheism.

Watersprite, also didn't say anything weird. I'm not sure where you thought she was stating what you thought she was... :huh:

She said:

That's their own personal path. Path bashing is not tolerated here, that's what I hear.

Meaning, that's their chosen path (Atheism), in which I can assume she means they have a right to believe or not believe as they please. The second part, "path bashing is not tolerated here". That's true, it's not.

No where did she state in this thread, he was path bashing.


As for the the actual Bible quotations, Bartman, they're:


Matthew 7:12 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_%28King_James%29/Matthew#7:12)
12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Luke 6:31 (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_%28King_James%29/Luke#6:31)
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
:)

[draguakale]

It wasn't in this thread, but another. He started this thread because of what happened in another, he apparently wants to lean how to be more tolerant of Atheism.

Watersprite, also didn't say anything weird. I'm not sure where you thought she was stating what you thought she was... :huh:

She said:


Meaning, that's their chosen path (Atheism), in which I can assume she means they have a right to believe or not believe as they please. The second part, "path bashing is not tolerated here". That's true, it's not.

No where did she state in this thread, he was path bashing.


As for the the actual Bible quotations, Bartman, they're:
:)


Thank you for promptly making my own point for me.

[Agaliha]

And your point was that she (Watersprite) was or wasn't saying he was path bashing in this thread, because it looked like you thought she was saying there was some in here...? My point was that no where in her comment that you quoted, did she say there was, she was merely stating a fact (path bashing is not allowed here). And clearly in this thread, he wasn't.

The thread where Bartman got in trouble with in somewhere else, search his recent posts that refer to Atheism if you're curious...

[Philosophia]

WOW! Where was the bashing, coz I missed it and I have read every post completely. As far as I know, BHM just stated that he didn't understand Atheism and wanted to know how to be more tolerant. Or was it somewhere else? In which case, there was an apology in the beginning, and the past has no business being brought into a different topic.

Um, he brought the past up into this thread. It's why this whole thread was created.

[Agaliha]

Also, Bartman, an idea: if you have a hard time keeping your thoughts and feelings about Atheism within the rules here a good idea might be to avoid the threads that might set you off. So simply ignore the forums and threads where Atheism is the topic of discussion.

This could be said for someone that has a hard time with a certain political group, perhaps avoiding threads about that topic or discussion would stop them from getting in trouble. Ditto to all kinds of other topics.

When I know a topic or discussion will piss me off or I don't trust myself to say cool, I avoid the thread.

Basically, if you know talking about Atheism will set of off, don't put yourself in a situation where you're going to get in trouble when it can be easily avoided ;)

[Bartmanhomer]

Also, Bartman, an idea: if you have a hard time keeping your thoughts and feelings about Atheism within the rules here a good idea might be to avoid the threads that might set you off. So simply ignore the forums and threads where Atheism is the topic of discussion.

This could be said for someone that has a hard time with a certain political group, perhaps avoiding threads about that topic or discussion would stop them from getting in trouble. Ditto to all kinds of other topics.

When I know a topic or discussion will piss me off or I don't trust myself to say cool, I avoid the thread.

Basically, if you know talking about Atheism will set of off, don't put yourself in a situation where you're going to get in trouble when it can be easily avoided ;)

Thanks, Agaliha. But honestly, I just can't hold this type of...........stuff.

Ok, the real truth is the reason why I hate Atheism because I encounter so many people with Athenism because the reason of their ill-mannered and rude behavior. Most of them say, If you if any of you believe in god, all of you god-loving scumbag deserved to die. And most Athiest said **** God, **** your moronic piece of bibicial trash. And most Athiest bash a lot of Christians, Catholic and other religion too the extreme. I see this on tv, news, every where. That's my reasons. :(:flamer:

[iceskater12]

Thanks, Agaliha. But honestly, I just can't hold this type of...........stuff.

Ok, the real truth is the reason why I hate Atheism because I encounter so many people with Athenism because the reason of their ill-mannered and rude behavior. Most of them say, If you if any of you believe in god, all of you god-loving scumbag deserved to die. And most Athiest said hug God, hug your moronic piece of bibicial trash. And most Athiest bash a lot of Christians, Catholic and other religion too the extreme. I see this on tv, news, every where. That's my reasons. :(:flamer:

Because Muslims, Hidu's, Christians, Pagan's, and Wiccan's never hear that *sarcasm*

Every person Atheist or another religion is a person, and doesn't sum up a whole religion/or lack of. Plenty of Atheists just stay out of religious dicussions, some don't. The same can be said of people of any religion.

[Caitlin.ann]

Umm wow..is all I have to say.

[Darth Brooks]

Thanks, Agaliha. But honestly, I just can't hold this type of...........stuff.

Ok, the real truth is the reason why I hate Atheism because I encounter so many people with Athenism because the reason of their ill-mannered and rude behavior. Most of them say, If you if any of you believe in god, all of you god-loving scumbag deserved to die. And most Athiest said hug God, hug your moronic piece of bibicial trash. And most Athiest bash a lot of Christians, Catholic and other religion too the extreme. I see this on tv, news, every where. That's my reasons. :(:flamer:

Bartmanhomer,

I can understand your position because I have had similar experiences myself. While I would not go so far as to overgeneralize and talk about "most" atheists in this light, I have met quite a few atheists who have been absolutely rude and indecent toward me, simply because I am a "believer." I have nothing against someone who believes there are no gods, because the way I see it is this: if my God wants them to believe in Him, He will reveal Himself to them in whatever way(s) He finds best. It's not my responsibility to convince anyone else of my position, because that is something that only Set has the right to do, IMO. There is literally no concept of "spreading the good news" in my path. Therefore I am more than happy to let people believe or disbelieve whatever they please, because if they don't come to Set then I take that to mean that Set likes them just the way they are. And while others may find the idea of a god who likes atheists confusing, this is absolutely nothing compared to some of the other things I have come to understand.

So normally, when I first meet an atheist, I am kind and polite to them right from the get-go, because it is a religious principle of mine that everyone should be treated the way I would like them to treat me (or at least at first). But time after time, I have met atheists who were unwilling to reciprocate my respectful attitude. The second these persons discover that I recite my prayers to an ancient Egyptian god, they seem to think they need to "educate" me by asking me for my "proof" that Set exists. And of course it does not even occur to them that I have already been through this many many times, I am no mere child who has never heard of logic and reasoning before. (Going through this process over and over again so many times has a way of making a person not want to wear their religion on their sleeve anymore.) When I politely tell them that I have no proof and am unconcerned with changing their opinions about theology anyway, some of them see where I'm coming from and leave me alone. Others sometimes take that as an invitation to try and make me "see" just how "false" my beliefs really are - never realizing that in attempting to do so, they are, in effect, behaving as evangelical atheists, trying to "convert" me to atheism just like many religious people try to convert others to their religions (which I consider to be one of the single most insulting things a person can do, whether you're trying to convert them to Christianity or atheism or whatever, but that's just me).

So anyway. I will say that the vast majority of atheists I have met tend to become more respectful toward me, once they get to know me and what I stand for. But perhaps five times out of ten, my initial discussions with them concerning beliefs usually start out as a "Hey let's crack down on the stupid theist who doesn't know any better" kind of thing, which I absolutely loathe.

However, it's important to be precise in this kind of criticism: (1) Not all atheists are like this just because they're atheists, and (2) Even the atheists who ARE like this aren't nearly so bad as the religious fanatics who go running around killing people in the names of their beliefs. You don't usually hear about atheists bombing abortion clinics or flying airplanes into towers. And I have never been annoyed by an atheist who came to my door, inviting me to become an atheist with them. Sure, the snottier ones can be annoying in their own very special way, but at least they're just annoying and not much else. It could be a whole lot worse. And furthermore, if guys like Pat Robertson and John Hagee and Rod Parsley are allowed to have their own annoying TV shows full of close-minded rhetoric and bashing of other perspectives, then certainly atheists should be able to say what they think on TV as well. It's only fair.

And I have never met an atheist who told me that I "deserve to die" just for being a believer - or at least, not yet.

Now concerning your question as to how you might become more tolerant of atheists...I think you are already off to a good start, just by the fact that you want to become more tolerant of them. Just try your best to treat them like how Jesus would probably have treated them - with just as much love and respect as he had for everyone else.

[Bartmanhomer]

Bartmanhomer,

I can understand your position because I have had similar experiences myself. While I would not go so far as to overgeneralize and talk about "most" atheists in this light, I have met quite a few atheists who have been absolutely rude and indecent toward me, simply because I am a "believer." I have nothing against someone who believes there are no gods, because the way I see it is this: if my God wants them to believe in Him, He will reveal Himself to them in whatever way(s) He finds best. It's not my responsibility to convince anyone else of my position, because that is something that only Set has the right to do, IMO. There is literally no concept of "spreading the good news" in my path. Therefore I am more than happy to let people believe or disbelieve whatever they please, because if they don't come to Set then I take that to mean that Set likes them just the way they are. And while others may find the idea of a god who likes atheists confusing, this is absolutely nothing compared to some of the other things I have come to understand.

So normally, when I first meet an atheist, I am kind and polite to them right from the get-go, because it is a religious principle of mine that everyone should be treated the way I would like them to treat me (or at least at first). But time after time, I have met atheists who were unwilling to reciprocate my respectful attitude. The second these persons discover that I recite my prayers to an ancient Egyptian god, they seem to think they need to "educate" me by asking me for my "proof" that Set exists. And of course it does not even occur to them that I have already been through this many many times, I am no mere child who has never heard of logic and reasoning before. (Going through this process over and over again so many times has a way of making a person not want to wear their religion on their sleeve anymore.) When I politely tell them that I have no proof and am unconcerned with changing their opinions about theology anyway, some of them see where I'm coming from and leave me alone. Others sometimes take that as an invitation to try and make me "see" just how "false" my beliefs really are - never realizing that in attempting to do so, they are, in effect, behaving as evangelical atheists, trying to "convert" me to atheism just like many religious people try to convert others to their religions (which I consider to be one of the single most insulting things a person can do, whether you're trying to convert them to Christianity or atheism or whatever, but that's just me).

So anyway. I will say that the vast majority of atheists I have met tend to become more respectful toward me, once they get to know me and what I stand for. But perhaps five times out of ten, my initial discussions with them concerning beliefs usually start out as a "Hey let's crack down on the stupid theist who doesn't know any better" kind of thing, which I absolutely loathe.

However, it's important to be precise in this kind of criticism: (1) Not all atheists are like this just because they're atheists, and (2) Even the atheists who ARE like this aren't nearly so bad as the religious fanatics who go running around killing people in the names of their beliefs. You don't usually hear about atheists bombing abortion clinics or flying airplanes into towers. And I have never been annoyed by an atheist who came to my door, inviting me to become an atheist with them. Sure, the snottier ones can be annoying in their own very special way, but at least they're just annoying and not much else. It could be a whole lot worse. And furthermore, if guys like Pat Robertson and John Hagee and Rod Parsley are allowed to have their own annoying TV shows full of close-minded rhetoric and bashing of other perspectives, then certainly atheists should be able to say what they think on TV as well. It's only fair.

And I have never met an atheist who told me that I "deserve to die" just for being a believer - or at least, not yet.

Now concerning your question as to how you might become more tolerant of atheists...I think you are already off to a good start, just by the fact that you want to become more tolerant of them. Just try your best to treat them like how Jesus would probably have treated them - with just as much love and respect as he had for everyone else.

Wow! Well at least you're very tolerated with the type of athiest that you're from.

[Darth Brooks]

Wow! Well at least you're very tolerated with the type of athiest that you're from.

Well I don't know what you mean exactly, but usually, tolerance is more easily received when it is more easily given. :thumbsup:

[Bartmanhomer]

Well I don't know what you mean exactly, but usually, tolerance is more easily received when it is more easily given. :thumbsup:

What I meant is that Athiesm doesn't bother you that much because it's just like you said some of them are very nice people.

[Xentor]

Bartmanhomer, if you talk to Infinite Grey, one of our more prolific Atheists, you will discover that he has a belief, too. It is not true that Atheists do not believe... it is not even true that they do not believe in God... it's just that they believe God does not, has not, and will not exist. Such a position allows them to be just as religious, spiritual, and evangelical as people following any other path, though I think they would abhor those labels.

Much along the lines of what Darth Brooks said about allowing Set decide for Himself whether or not He wants the Atheists believing in Him, maybe you should allow God to make that decision for Himself too. Does God really need you to fight His battles?

My own path allows anybody to follow their own paths and sees that diversity as a good thing, as one of the ways to fulfill the reason for our existence. Does that come with strife? Well, strife is here, so that must be part of the reason for our existence as well.

[Bartmanhomer]

Bartmanhomer, if you talk to Infinite Grey, one of our more prolific Atheists, you will discover that he has a belief, too. It is not true that Atheists do not believe... it is not even true that they do not believe in God... it's just that they believe God does not, has not, and will not exist. Such a position allows them to be just as religious, spiritual, and evangelical as people following any other path, though I think they would abhor those labels. Much along the lines of what Darth Brooks said about allowing Set decide for Himself whether or not He wants the Atheists believing in Him, maybe you should allow God to make that decision for Himself too. Does God really need you to fight His battles? My own path allows anybody to follow their own paths and sees that diversity as a good thing, as one of the ways to fulfill the reason for our existence. Does that come with strife? Well, strife is here, so that must be part of the reason for our existence as well.

i didn't know he was an aithest. and I really respect him by all means! um sorry Grey.

[Cunae]

Some of the threads about Christianity contain generalizations and, IMHO, drift into what I see as an excuse for some people to slam the religion. I usually say something when I think it's happening.

Tolerance to me is expressing beliefs without making generalizations and without targeting one person. And saying what's on your mind politely. It can be done!

The courtesy rules here are pretty strict and mostly enforced. I appreciate that, even though I got slapped one time by that mean ol' Phoenix guy. :toofless:

[Bartmanhomer]

Look i understand there intolerance everywhere such as sex, age, anything! and i'm trying to be as tolerance possible and most other religion that i could religion i could deal with and all the stuff!

[LacyRoze]

For me tolerance is simple. I accept that people hold beliefs that are different from mine. Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I expect others to. I'm Christian but that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to be. My beliefs are just that, mine. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for others. We all have to do and live our lives in a manner that best for us as individuals...

[Bartmanhomer]

I just thought of something does Satanism is acceptable in this forum?

[Agaliha]

I just thought of something does Satanism is acceptable in this forum?

Is Satanism acceptable on MW?

If you mean, welcome here and respected as a path, than yes.
They have a sub-forum, too: Paths: Satanism (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=348)

[Cunae]

Thanks, Agaliha. But honestly, I just can't hold this type of...........stuff.

Ok, the real truth is the reason why I hate Atheism because I encounter so many people with Athenism because the reason of their ill-mannered and rude behavior. Most of them say, If you if any of you believe in god, all of you god-loving scumbag deserved to die. And most Athiest said hug God, hug your moronic piece of bibicial trash. And most Athiest bash a lot of Christians, Catholic and other religion too the extreme. I see this on tv, news, every where. That's my reasons. :(:flamer:

This is a pretty inflammatory way to express your feelings about atheism even if it's honest. My recommendation starts with our Bible:

Matthew 7:3 (CEV)

Don't worry about the speck in your friend's eye, when you don't notice the log in your own eye.

Second, you have a right to feel as you do... just work on how you express it and when to express it.

PS. Hate is never a good thing.

[Agaliha]

Second, you have a right to feel as you do... just work on how you express it and when to express it.


:uhhuhuh:

Which also goes with my advice about avoiding situations and threads about Atheism that would set you (Bartman) off. If you can't control yourself and express yourself in a way that is acceptable (per MW rules) it's best to just avoid the areas of MW where there'd be problems. ;)

[Lunacie]

Thanks, Agaliha. But honestly, I just can't hold this type of...........stuff.

Ok, the real truth is the reason why I hate Atheism because I encounter so many people with Athenism because the reason of their ill-mannered and rude behavior. Most of them say, If you if any of you believe in god, all of you god-loving scumbag deserved to die. And most Athiest said hug God, hug your moronic piece of bibicial trash. And most Athiest bash a lot of Christians, Catholic and other religion too the extreme. I see this on tv, news, every where. That's my reasons. :(:flamer:

I'm surprised no one has said this yet. Often that kind of attitude is a counter-reaction to SOME Christians bashing Atheists, being rude to them, telling them that they deserve to spend eternity roasting in hell. I definately avoid people who spread that kind of hatred, no matter who they are bashing. I myself have not seen much of this attitude of Atheists hating all forms of Christianity on tv, in the news, or anywhere so haven't had much need to avoid that.

[Infinite Grey]

Bartmanhomer, if you talk to Infinite Grey, one of our more prolific Atheists, you will discover that he has a belief, too. It is not true that Atheists do not believe... it is not even true that they do not believe in God... it's just that they believe God does not, has not, and will not exist. Such a position allows them to be just as religious, spiritual, and evangelical as people following any other path, though I think they would abhor those labels.


heh, Prolific - I'm down right militant on occasions. But you're right, I believe in great deal of things; deities are just not one of those things.

Not believing in a god and believing there is no god are actually too different but similar things. The first being a simple state, a position that is default and non altered. The second is assertion, a claim - a negative one at that. Both apply to me - depending on what situation I find myself in. For the most part and in all practical senses, I have no belief in god...



i didn't know he was an aithest. and I really respect him by all means! um sorry Grey.

That's odd, I would have thought it would have been obvious :hahugh:


As to atheists being rude and condescending - well I'm confrontational: I was confrontational as a devote Christian, I was confrontational as pagan, I was confrontational as an agnostic, and I'm confrontational as an Atheist. I'm just confrontational.

Atheism does not make people rude or unpleasant, we do not lose morality, nor do we become nihilists - atheism doesn't do anything at all for us. One could argue that the various ideologies and philosophies we attach to ourselves could bring about a negative personality change... for example, if I were to become a nihilist, my attitudes would change significantly. As it stands, I could easily label myself under any of the following; but I'm way to lazy to really belong to a group. Humanist, Transhumanist, Secularist, Naturalist, Rationalist, and so on.

[nannymouse]

...even though I got slapped one time by that mean ol' Phoenix guy. :toofless:
Is that when you lost the tooth?


As to tolerance of others...

If someone is a jerk, then it doesn't matter to me what their path is.
Paths: Jerkism
I will learn fairly quickly to not associate with them. I may try to change the subject. I think that the concept that you will come when you are called makes sense.

It can be difficult, but having a conversation with an intelligent person, and asking them to explain their point of view, without trying to change yours, would be helpful.

[Bartmanhomer]

Is Satanism acceptable on MW?

If you mean, welcome here and respected as a path, than yes.
They have a sub-forum, too: Paths: Satanism (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=348)

WOW! :bug: Ok, it's no big deal, it's just a coping situation. It's...........*faints on the floor*

[Bartmanhomer]

:uhhuhuh:

Which also goes with my advice about avoiding situations and threads about Atheism that would set you (Bartman) off. If you can't control yourself and express yourself in a way that is acceptable (per MW rules) it's best to just avoid the areas of MW where there'd be problems. ;)

Ok, And I'm doing my best to tolerate with Atheism.

[Agaliha]

WOW! :bug: Ok, it's no big deal, it's just a coping situation. It's...........*faints on the floor*

:huh:

:wtf:

[Lunacie]

WOW! :bug: Ok, it's no big deal, it's just a coping situation. It's...........*faints on the floor*

It's......... a big world, filled with people with different beliefs. I think some of them are pretty wacky myself, but I absolutely agree with Mol and GEBS that we have a right to hold any of those beliefs. Glad to see you're using some humor to work through your feelings.

[Bartmanhomer]

It's......... a big world, filled with people with different beliefs. I think some of them are pretty wacky myself, but I absolutely agree with Mol and GEBS that we have a right to hold any of those beliefs. Glad to see you're using some humor to work through your feelings.

Well, I'm multi-reglious tolerance person. I could tolerate any religion, into Muslims, Wiccans and I'm trying to work on S.....S........S...........The Big Red Religion. :crown:

[Agaliha]

Satanism is "the Big Bad Religion" :huh:
I don't know what you've experienced in the past with so called Satanists, but they're not evil or bad. ;)

ETA: Nevermind, misread ;)

[Bartmanhomer]

Satanism is "the Big Bad Religion" :huh:
I don't know what you've experienced in the past with so called Satanists, but they're not evil or bad. ;)

I said Big Red Religion not Big Bad Religion. Really, Satanist is not a bad religion.

[Agaliha]

Sorry, I misread ;)

[Bartmanhomer]

It's ok. :crown:

[Bartmanhomer]

I feel like that this thread help me a lot. :crown:

[Lunacie]

I generally type mistakes like that, not read them. It's funny to see someone else make a mistake for a change. :lol:

Nothing personal Agaliha, ok? :hugz:

[Bartmanhomer]

I generally type mistakes like that, not read them. It's funny to see someone else make a mistake for a change. :lol:

Nothing personal Agaliha, ok? :hugz:

For once, I'm glad that not me!

[Agaliha]

I generally type mistakes like that, not read them. It's funny to see someone else make a mistake for a change. :lol:

Nothing personal Agaliha, ok? :hugz:

I do crap like that all the time. ;) Which is why I try to read carefully. Sometimes that doesn't help though. :lol:
I don't know if it's my seizure issue messing with my brain, but I have a harder time typing words out correctly at times. Lately "somewhere" nearly always comes out as "someone" :2G: Weird. That's why I love the edit function :toofless: Anyway...back to the thread...