Leave the Kid at Home!

[Gwion]

Or get a frickin' babysitter. I saw Formula 51 friday night, a violent Samuel Jackson action/comedy (so-so but Sam rocks as always) but some genius brought a 2-3 year old who screamed through half the flick. You have to wonder what he was thinking bringing a child that age to an R rated movie. Then at IHOP last night, the kids at the table next to us were kicking the wooden booth so hard at first we thought someone was in the parking lot with the bass and volume turned all the way up (common problem in Philly.) We realized the real problem, but the mother just stared into space like she was deaf. Then they proceeded to make loud farting noises and screaming with laughter. She just stared into space. When I sell my masks at Ren Faires, parents just let their kids run up and seize them with candy apple crud all over their hands. Many of the masks are suede and sell for $50-$150. When I tell the kids not to touch (no one can read the 5 signs saying "Children may look but please don't touch") the parents glare at me like I'm an ogre. I love kids, I can change a diaper, I can babysit, I can tell stories and play, but I hate parents who let their kids run wild with no consideration for the annoyance and damage they cause.

[st0rm]

hey.. that happens to me too.. the neighbours kids(they got like 7) are always running through my herbs or yelling loudly in the morning/evenings, not to talk about their dog with its constant barking that goes on for several days and nights in a row...

[Margie]

I agree. If you're going to take your kids out in public, you need to have control of them. You should also be teaching your kids how to act in public. What's acceptable and what's not.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Yup I agree too though there are times when the parent doesn't have an option. :(

[Witchy Cowgirl]

I agree - you gotta teach kids what is acceptable behavior.
You should see the looks I've gotten when I've had to get on to kids in public. Espically when I walk them around Wal-Mart by the ear. I'm braggin but my kids are well behaved in public.
But they make up for it at home!

Also, I'm not bashful about gettin on to other kids in public.

[StormChaser]

The movies thing is a big issue... for starters you should think about subjecting your children to violent imagry. Secondly, a lot of kids have issues with being in the dark.. so you really should think about that before hauling your 2 year old to the movies anyway... dark often means bedtime.

I don't mind kids in public making noise.. im 20.. but my 4 year old sister and i like to laugh and giggle at the dinner table... im sorry that that ruins your dining experience.. that you aren't having fun at dinner or trying to be serious.. but theres a reason some places are called "family" restaurants. You should be happy the kid isn't balling. I be anti the banging on the walls... but really.. laughing? Kids aren't always to be seen and not heard.

However when my aunt let her 5 year old anna run around a diner expecting the restaurant management to take care of them, we all *my mother, myself, and my grandmother* got on her case and her childs.. then and there. I certainly keep my charges, siblings and cousins close at hand.. steady on the reigns at public places... and there is a certain level of docorum children should be taught. The masks things is really not cool for example. However again there are instances where a child may be being a nuissance that for the better ment of the child you can't do anything... example.. walking away from a child in a tantrum vs. smacking them\grabbing them harshly etc. Sometimes a parent has to be free to try other alternatives.. public or no.

~Sarah

[Flaire]

I think they mean the high-pitched screaming laugh that disturbs the whole restaurant. I've had the pleasure of sitting beside people who do that.

Mind you, I like to laugh and giggle in restaurants as well, but I keep it low, so that the people sitting next to us don't have to speak louder than they should have to to hear each other.

[Gwion]

>im sorry that that ruins your dining experience.. that you aren't having fun at dinner or trying to be serious.. but theres a reason some places are called "family" restaurants.<

It was hardly haute cuisine, but even if it was Taco Bell, no one should have to endure 20 solid minutes of flatulance noises and shrieking that would peel asphalt; but then children learn what they are exposed to, and it may be that they are reflecting the nature of their parents. The woman finally left after she saw that they were being glared at by the entire restaurant. Never once did she try the magic words "be quiet" or even "shut up."

> I be anti the banging on the walls<

Um, er...nevermind.

[Danustouch]

I don't mind kids being in public at stores, malls, etc. I do mind them being at movie theatres, when it is an adult movie. Both because the content of the movie is often something that a kid shouldn't see, AND because with the outrageous price of a movie ticket these days, I'd like to be able to HEAR the movie.

As for restaurants, if it's a family type restaurant, I pretty much figure that there will be children there. When it is a more "Private" type restaurant, where people go for a quiet dinner, I think it's poor judgement. If it's a baby, that's one thing. Baby's are a bit unpredictable. They get tired, and cranky easily. And the only way a baby knows how to communicate their tiredness, is through crying. So..while it's inconvenient, I try to understand it. Parents with a new baby OFTEN need a night out, and sometimes, it can be difficult to find a sitter, or they may feel the baby is too young to be left with a sitter. But..when it's a toddler, or an older child, who hasn't been taught "Public Behavior", and it isn't just tired, but simply an ill mannered, demanding child...i start to get annoyed.

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by Gwion
>im sorry that that ruins your dining experience.. that you aren't having fun at dinner or trying to be serious.. but theres a reason some places are called "family" restaurants.<

It was hardly haute cuisine, but even if it was Taco Bell, no one should have to endure 20 solid minutes of flatulance noises and shrieking that would peel asphalt; but then children learn what they are exposed to, and it may be that they are reflecting the nature of their parents. The woman finally left after she saw that they were being glared at by the entire restaurant. Never once did she try the magic words "be quiet" or even "shut up."

> I be anti the banging on the walls<

Um, er...nevermind.

Lol.. sorry about the umm.. complete lack of grammar there.. i think my fingers were not connecting in full accordance with my brain.

I think my sore spot on this largely stems from seeing people constantly tell their children "shut up" and varying terms of "be seen and not heard" ethic. It largely upsets me because, well.. i just located my biological father and siblings.. so when we were all out at dinner and my sister and i were really enjoying connecting.. i personally object to other people getting annoyed because we were merely LAUGHING. In your case I can sooo see how all of that would lead up to an aggrivation cry... especially with the flatulance and the banging... but i think its not just you when i say that laughing.. high pitched shrieks coming from any person, especially a child though.. seem to really make the irritated far more so. That to me is kind of sad.

[StormChaser]

Originally posted by Danustouch
but simply an ill mannered, demanding child...i start to get annoyed. [/B]

I can't stand RUDE children.. the ones that demand everything in sight.. I remember once having an insane desire to deck a girl who was 15.. because of two things.. ONE her incessant whining about how she needed to take these drugs to feel "good" which her mother was saying "hunny those are prescription drugs they are meant for people with problems.." and the girl totally copped an attitude with her for trying to protect her. The second thing.. was when her mother said that they didnt want dessert.. her daughter actually stood up.. stomped her feet and ran out of the diner.. talk about your BRAT!... that is cause for upset.. to me not because it ruined my dining experience.. if anything.. later i get a good laugh.. but because of the level of disrespect she had for a woman obviously just trying to do right.. however obviously partly at fault for her daughters complete lack of respect towards her.

Children in check out lines demanding this and that.. thats another one... as a cashier... i feel for the parents.. but i also have a slight problem with it. As a kid i never asked for anything.. i still have problems telling people what i want for christmas. And even if i did.. i never EXPECTED to recieve it.

*shrugs*


*shrugs*

[Faery-Wings]

Having been on both sides of this issues.....I agree!

;)

My son started going out to decent restaurants with us from babyhood on. He was one who was content to color (scribble) with crayons or play (chew on) a little bookor toy. My daughter had a lot of health issues (reflux) and was uncomfortable for much of the first year of her life. She screamed and threw up almost constantly. I didn't take her out as much, for obvious reasons.

My kids are told how they need to behave, they are expected to behave that way, and I have taken them outside to calm down if they don't listen. For the most part they are excellent. I was out to dinner last Friday with my kids and my In laws at a really nice restaurant. An older woman and her husband were at the table next to us. When they left, the woman came by to say how well behaved my kids were. After she left, I turned to my kids and said how proud I was!

I don't think kids should be taken to movies like that at all for so many reasons. For the kids best interest as well as other patrons, they should stay home.

On the other hand, babies cry. *shrug* While I hope that most parents would bring a baby out to a place that is nice but noisy (Macaroni Grill is perfect for this. Nice food but noise!)and at a time when the baby is rested and fed, but best laid plans don't always work..

Now thatI have posted a novel... I'll shut up before someone complains about me. :):):)

[Yvonne Belisle]

Now something few people think of is the fact that when disiplining kids in public there can be problems. There was a case in California many years ago where a family was at McDonalds the kids were hanging from the lights and the mom smacked the kids hand. Someone objected to her striking her child and called the police. They came as the family was leaving asked if she stuck the child. When the mother said yes the children were loaded into the squad car because no one wanted to listen to where why and how hard. It took her months to get the kids back because police had been involved in the issue. With people like that around that will call on a hand tap with a kid that deserved a tap on the hand it makes some of us think twice in public. My solution is that my children are told we will leave if they behave like that and that they will get one smack for each dollar I waste that way. With a family of 6 that could be a very big number. It may seem harsh but it works. Then again my kids are old enough to realize how long it could take for them to get all the spanks.

[st0rm]

like ur syle yvonne :D

[Flaire]

I agree wholeheartedly with the childrent NOT going to adult movies. I mean, they have higher ratings for a reason. :rolleyes: Kids should go to a movie where they can laugh and enjoy themselves, not be terrorized by shoot-em-up style movies that are all over the place today. (I still won't be caught dead at a war movie. :dis: )

But for the restaurant thing.. I've been thinking about this issue for a while. I think the inside/outside voices thing should be brought up, because it's a good idea. When you're in a building and using an outside voice, it gets really irritating to some people...where as when you're outside and using the outside voice, it's alright, because there can be a lot of other noise going on out there (traffic, etc). *shrugs*

Then again, I don't eat out much....and I'm naturally (really) quiet.:p

[MammaStar]

Last year, Eshallet and I went to see "Hannibal" in the theater. There was a 5 or 6 year old sitting right in front of me. There was NO reason that kid should've been in THAT particular movie. When the really icky "dinner scene" came up, I leaned over to the guy (assuming it was the father) and whispered to him that he could either have the kid turn his head or take him out completely. The guy actually thanked me, and the boy did hide his head behind his brother...still he shouldnt' been in that movie in the first place.

It seems, at least to me & Eshallet, every time we go out to dinner someplace, without the kids (my son & his little cousin who we take care of a lot) we ALWAYS end up near a family with the high pitch shrieker child.

But our kids are not free from blame...there have been a few times when they've BOTH been spoken to and even brought outside to be spoken too (as recently as 2 weeks ago, when my son decided to pitch a hissy at the Mickey Mantles....:rolleyes: )

I must admit, I'm a bit frightened, is it one of the 7 signs when me & Gwion ACTUALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Old Witch]

We were the type of parents who took their kids everywhere and since we eat out all the time.......they learned very early to behave well in restaurants...........If they didn't, we simply left........and they liked that less than misbehaving......Talk about the dinner experience from hell..........I have long hair......kid in booth behind me was jumping up and down, hollering and shaking the seat, bumping my head with her butt!! Then she grabbed a handful of my hair and gave it a jerk!!!!!!!!!! Well, I gave a shriek and jumped up and turned around and gave that kid a look.........She was standing there with a huge fistfull of my hair............and everyone in the restaurant could see it.........that was how much she had.....Then Ken stood up...and the restaurant manager asked them to leave................That was the dinner from Hell......we didn't even get a free meal:(

[Old Witch]

And I agree with the movie theatre thing............If it's a family movie...fair game.........but not the grosser, sexier, violent types............ Leave the kids at home.................

[Gwion]

You did a good service for that child.

"So shines a good deed in a naughty world."
Portia, Merchant of Venice

I stand firmly against spanking, except between consenting adults.

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Originally posted by chryssi1
My kids are told how they need to behave, they are expected to behave that way, and I have taken them outside to calm down if they don't listen. For the most part they are excellent. I was out to dinner last Friday with my kids and my In laws at a really nice restaurant. An older woman and her husband were at the table next to us. When they left, the woman came by to say how well behaved my kids were. After she left, I turned to my kids and said how proud I was!


Chryssi, that's wonderful. I've gotten the same compliment on boys 2 or 3 times before. It certainly does make you feel good and it is something to be proud of.;)

[materra]

I was at a check out once with my son, who was about 5 years old and he asked me for some candy. I said "no" and he said "okay" and we began to talk about something else.

The check out person just lost it... she kept saying things like
"It's a miracle" and "Just said NO" and then she said "can I give your son a candy bar" ? I kinda looked funny at her, and said "no thank you". She went on about how I was the first parent who said no and my kid didn't have a fit, or whine or beg or any of the stuff kids will do and he deserved a candy bar for that alone. It was pretty funny, yet in retrospect it was really pathetic she considered it a miracle. Oh, and the candy bar stayed behind. No meant no at my house.

[Semele]

Well, Trey is mostly good when we eat out, but Mol on the other hand...tsk tsk tsk. Trey will be sitting there coloring and being sweet and he has to start making faces at him or shoot his straw paper at him. Why oh why do men do these things?

Gwion, is it ok to spank Mol when he acts up in public?

[materra]

:eyebrow: Um, Semele, isn't this a family thread? Although I believe Gwion approved spanking between consenting adults!:bigredgri

Gwion, kids need to go into the world with their parents to learn how to behave under all circumstances. And they ask questions about what they see. Typically if there is one really awful and embarassing thing in a room full of people, they will ask you about it. Loudly and in front of everyone...."why is that man picking his nose?" "MOM look at _______ (incert worst nightmare of human behaviors.) As parents we try to do our best, teach them and equip them to handle things. Sadly, some folks didn't get the training to do this. And believe me, if I couldn't take my kids with me, I never would have gotten out.. So I tried to teach them on the job so to speak. Thats my two cents... :)

[Gwion]

I'm babysitting Christian, 4, and Ashlyn, 6. We're at Mc Donald's, were finished with our burgers and fries and we're having soft serve ice cream cones. Now, they, like me, are both Virgos. They compulsively wash their hands without having to be asked if they touch ANYTHING. So Ashlyn expresses concern that hers is melting and is going to drip on her hand. I just advise her to eat it a bit faster. It drips on her hand, and there is that moment like the tide going out before a tidal wave where she takes this huge inhalation and then screams like she had been scalded. So I'm running for a napkin, and calming her down. I was so focused on claming her that I really wasn't conscious of anyone else but Christian. The thing is, I DEALT with the problem. Some parents just ignore it and let it go on and on and on. That's what bugs me.

[MzNeko]

I still remember one of the saddest parenting episodes I've seen...

I worked in a candy store for a few years. One day this lady and her toddler come in and look at all the shiny pretty candy. This kid was round - it went waaaay beyond "baby fat". Well, when Mom got ready to leave, the little munchkin indicated that she wanted some candy. Mom said "No honey, because blah, blah, blah..." (more or less, I don't remember the exact words). To be honest, I don't think the kid listened to much more than "No".

Well, the little darlin' screwed up her face and made a preliminary tantrum noise - not the full voiced wail, but sort of a warning sound. Mom caved and little muffin got candy.

I couldn't help thinking how sad this was because by the time the kid gets to high school, not only will she have a weight problem, but she will have learned that having or threatening tantrums gets her what she wants. People won't even be able to say "But she has a great personality." about her.

Now I could be wrong, maybe this was a one-time incident when Mom was feeling a little tired and overwhelmed, but it really had the feel of an established pattern to me.

[Gwion]

When I see a child that is that obese I wonder if the parent doesn't have a form of Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome.

[Flar's Freyja]

Being a single mother of three, I often wished that I could leave the kids at home but I couldn't. I agree that children need to go out into the world with their parents to learn social interaction skills and behavior. And I get very annoyed with people who are annoyed by children. It makes me furious when people tsk-tsk at a parent because a three year old is screaming in a store or other public place. I once heard a woman say "Look at her, letting that child scream like that." I surprised the woman by asking her what she would have the mother do, and told her that it was people like herself that perpetuate child abuse.

Children are not little adults. They are children and we, as adults, have the responsibility of teaching them. Individuals who are annoyed by children should perhaps be the ones to stay at home.

Semele, we've been to restaurants with you guys and I know you definitely have your hands full with that older boy of yours ;)

[Faery-Wings]

It makes me furious when people tsk-tsk at a parent because a three year old is screaming in a store or other public place. I once heard a woman say "Look at her, letting that child scream like that." I surprised the woman by asking her what she would have the mother do, and told her that it was people like herself that perpetuate child abuse.

And sometimes it is best to let the child scream, depending where you are, I would never reccomend this is a restaurant, but for me, Walmart was fair game. My kids asked me for a cookie one day while we were in Walmart. I told them if they behaved, sure, at the end of the trip. Well, they didn't behave, I gave them a few warnings and then said no. My daughter screamed and wailed. At this point I was on line. I had my daughter in my arms screaming, but ignoring her. You can only tell a hyterical 3 yo so many times calmly, "If you had listened you could have had a cookie." I apologized to the other people in line, thankfully all moms. I told them that she was upset that I wouldn't give her a cookie and that she was angry with me that I wouldn't give in. Two of the moms closest to me said, you are doing the right thing. We'd rather see her cry, than you cave.

Like I said, this is not appropriate in all places and if this happened in other places, I would remove them from the area (BTDT too:))

But I am a firm believer that a child should not get their way just because they cause a fuss.

[Danustouch]

I agree that stores like walmart are fair game. Quiet restuarants, are another thing, imo. People HAVE to shop. They don't HAVE to go out to a restaurant. Yes, children can become overtired, and whiney, from time to time, but what bothers me is when you know the kid is a chronichally badly behaved child, and you bring them with you anyway. My personal opinion, is that whether in a store, or in a restaurant, if your kid starts screaming, and pulling a tantrum, you talk to them about it, you tell them it's not acceptable, you tell them that they will have to take a nap when they get home, or go to bed early that night, or that they won't be allowed to watch television, or any other leverage you have, to get them to understand that you won't tolerate tantrums in public. Another alternative, which has been mentioned, is taking them outside until they calm down. Take them outside the store, or restaurant, and make them sit in the car WITH you. Children hate boredom. Sitting in a car with you, will make them very bored. You can tell them..."When you have calmed down, and your tantrum is over, when you tell me you will behave, we can go back into the store. If not, we can sit here, or go home. If we have to go home, you will go to your room for a nap. It's up to you".

What annoys me, is when parents DONT do this, when they either ignore the behavior entirely, or when they give in to the childs demands, or commisserate with the child.."Oh..honey, what's wrong? Oh! You want that toy? Oh..well mommy doesn't have the money to buy it. When I come back next time, i'll get it for you.". This doesn't work. Kids don't understand "not having money" and that you will get the toy for them ..."Someday". Don't commisserate with them, don't ignore them. Teach them how to behave in public. Teach them that they can't always have what they want, and that throwing a tantrum isn't going to get them what they want, anyway.

On the other hand, something that annoys me, is when parents pull the "Wipe that look off your face" line. Or "Stop frowning". Frowning, pouting, even glaring, is an acceptable form of the child expressing their emotion. Everyone frowns when we are dissappointed. Even adults, pout. It's far different' than screaming, crying, saying "I hate you" etc. I was in a store one day, and saw a child asking her mother for a goldfish. The mother said "NO" and the child replied "Fine! But I'm NOT happy". and the mother turned to her and said..."What did you say?" Child replies.."I said..I'm NOT happy". Mother turns to the child, and says..."When you get home, you are going to get a spanking. You won't sass me.". Why isn't it acceptable, for a child to express their feelings? IMO, it's perfectly fine for a child to express that they are NOT happy, or that they are upset. They simply have to learn good ways of expressing that emotion. While screaming, crying, kicking things is NOT a good way to express that emotion, simply STATING the emotion, is fine, IMO. I wanted to strangle the mother.

[MzNeko]

Well, I gotta agree with you on the "wipe that look off your face" crowd, Danustouch.

For the most part my parents were great, but that was one area they didn't do so well in. It seemed like it wasn't enough that I do what I was told when I didn't want to, I couldn't act like I was unhappy about it.

I can understand why throwing a tantrum was unacceptable, but why the hell couldn't I pout or, yes, have an attitude, as long as the job got done?

I took me years (and the help of loving friends) to believe that I was indeed entitled to my own emotions, whether other people liked/agreed with them or not.

[Gwion]

>Children hate boredom. Sitting in a car with you, will make them very bored. You can tell them..."When you have calmed down, and your tantrum is over, when you tell me you will behave, we can go back into the store. If not, we can sit here, or go home. If we have to go home, you will go to your room for a nap. It's up to you".<

These are some of the wiseset words I have ever heard concerning children. Praise to you, Danustouch! XOX

[Margie]

I have many times walked out of the grocery store or wherever because my daughter was throwing a fit. Yes, it was a pain, I had to go back later and finish my shopping. But to me it was more important that "No means no" if she asked for something and I said no or if she was throwing a fit for no reason. What I say goes.

[Danustouch]

Thanks Gwion...but.....make that "Mother By Proxy" Heh. I'm not actually a Mom yet. But I helped to raise my kid sister, as I was almost 13 when she was born, and i've babysat, ALOT, and helped a couple of friends with their kids, as well. I've also been in a "Big Sister" and "Youth Advisor" roll, at differen't points in my life, to older kids, so I've learned. I've also learned from seeing some really wonderful examples of parenting. My friends, for instance, are two of the best parents I've ever met in my life, and their children are incredibly well behaved, well adjusted, loving, bright kids. And these are methods they use, as well :)

[Flaire]

Mother turns to the child, and says..."When you get home, you are going to get a spanking. You won't sass me.". Why isn't it acceptable, for a child to express their feelings?

I agree. The child should be able to say how she's feeling. I think it's much more appropriate for her to say that she's not happy about not being able to get the fish, rather than throwing a tantrum in the store. *shrugs*

[Angelwulfe]

i totally agree with the movie theatre thing. if you can't find or afford a baby sitter kindly wait till it comes out on video. i've missed tons of movies because i refuse to bring my baby along. although it can be hard sometimes. like i'll be at the grocery store and my 3 month old will start crying and because i don't drive she's in the stroller so i can't use a cart and my arms are overloaded with stuff so it's really hard to pick her up. in those situations i try to talk to her to calm her down but it dosn't always work. although when i'm at a bookstore or someplace where i'm browsing i always pick her up. it's anoying though when strangers will be like don't pick her or you'll spoil her. i'm like do you wan't her to stop crying or not.:rolleyes: any way enough with the rant

[Amemphis]

Theres been alot of opinions from parents. I'm not all that old (Mid teens) and I vividly remember how my parents treated me when I was a kid.

I don't remember 'learning' to behave. I guess I sort of picked it up, because as an only child and family favorite I was taken everywhere. But every kid misbehaves, and when I threw a tantrum I was taken out by my dad. He was the sweetest nicest man in the world when I co-operated, but I stepped out of line and he taught me what I did was wrong. I'm spoiled as all hell, but I learned when to be good.

[Starry Di]

People seemed to address how to behave in public, but no one adressed how to behave at home...
When I was little, my mother used to scold me because I didn't "eat like a lady" in public (IE : I learned that if my pancakes were in big peices I could eat them all at McDonalds...she yelled at me for eating a huge peiece of pancake). Looking back, she had no right to tell me that, as she herself didn't "eat like a lady" at home, nor did she ever take me aside at home to teach me how to eat in public.

A *huge* pet peeve of mine is stores. I don't care if it's a family store, I still hate it when I go to a place like wal-mart and you can hear the kids squealing and screaming!! Parks are understanable, McDonalds and other places with "playground" equipment in them are understandable, but stores to me are not.
Not to mention that I *hate* it when parents bring their babies to a place like church (yeah, I go once a month even though I don't agree with the religion :$), and then their babies start crying in the middle of the sermon...yes, I realise there is nothing you can really do to keep a baby from crying, but still!! You can reduce the noise and inturruption level by taking it outside the room to let it calm down, or calm it down yourself :$