Interesting News Re: Jesus and James

[Flar's Freyja]

I found both of these while reading my e-mail this morning. Thought they might be of interest to some.

New book says Jesus was short, unattractive
October 23 2002 at 04:01PM

Rome - Jesus was short and unattractive and was not
born in a manger on December 25, according to a book
by two Catholic journalists backed by the Vatican and
published in Italy.

The Eleven Commandments, written by two journalists
for the Avvenire bishops' daily paper, is dedicated to
exposing the "equivocations and lies" contained in the
Bible and traditional Christian teaching...........
Some of the myths exploded in the new book are likely
to cause shock for some churchgoers, however............

Joshua could not have brought down the walls of
Jericho with his light trumpet batallion, since
archeologists have shown that the town was already a
ruin by the time he was born.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?newslett=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1035379260994B264&set_id=1

Burial Box May Be That of Jesus' Brother, Expert Says

Researchers may have uncovered the first archaeological evidence that refers to Jesus as an actual person and identifies James, the first leader of the Christian church, as his brother.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html

[shnen]

if James was his older brother then Mary was no virgin :eek:

[Flar's Freyja]

:eek: OMG I didn't think about that!

[FlamedLilly]

All of these discoveries lately, I wonder how the Christian world is going to view and adapt/change to them?

[FlamedLilly]

Also, I just thought, people thought Author was a myth, but there is now evidence to support that he exsisted, and wasn't in fact the way he's now dipicted at all.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by FlamedLilly
All of these discoveries lately, I wonder how the Christian world is going to view and adapt/change to them?


I'm sure they'll be argued. I'm especially concerned about the criticism the book will get because it is written by Catholic authors and backed by the Vatican. I live in a part of the country where Catholics are perceived as pagans.

[FlamedLilly]

Catholics pagans? Now I know some people like to argue that, but I've known a few and they aren't what most make them out to be.

[Flar's Freyja]

I know. Imagine my culture shock and disgust when I moved here ten years ago. I was practicing at the time.

[shnen]

*no offense* but the xians have done a pretty good job of bending everything so far... ever asked a xian when the dinosaurs happened... my minister when I was 8 said they were mythological creatures...
..nice job of education there priest boy... :rolleyes:

[Flar's Freyja]

*nods*

And with all of the recent publicity about Catholic priests molesting children, which p*ssed me off because this goes on in ALL groups, religious or not.

[Demeter]

Originally posted by shnen
if James was his older brother then Mary was no virgin :eek:

According to the Catholics, James was an older HALF-brother by Joseph's first wife, who died before he married Mary.

According to the Protestants, James was Jesus' younger full brother -- there were several younger brothers and sisters.

According to the Orthodox, James was a close cousin who was called a brother due to the closeness of their relationship ....

There may even be other possible explanations of the relationship: for example, had the customs of polygamy and concubinage died out among the Jews in New Testament times? If not, there might have been another wife or a concubine to produce James.

[FlamedLilly]

wow growing up as a xian I never was taught that James was a relation to Jesus. If he was don't you think he would've recognized him? There is a section in the Bible where Jesus is teaching James the "gospel" I don't know where becuae I don't keep up on things like that, but James reacts, at least in my opinion, like he'd met Jesus for the frst time. Just another log on the fire.

[Flar's Freyja]

O brother who art thou?

sorry, couldn't help myself............

[MammaStar]

I tried to post this before. But my computer would NOT co-operate. *grumble grumble*

Anyway, I saw this article the other day on another website I frequent. This one also speaks of the realtionship between James & Jesus.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021021/ap_on_re_us/jesus_and_james

[flar7]

Originally posted by Demeter
According to the Catholics, James was an older HALF-brother by Joseph's first wife, who died before he married Mary.

According to the Protestants, James was Jesus' younger full brother -- there were several younger brothers and sisters.

According to the Orthodox, James was a close cousin who was called a brother due to the closeness of their relationship ....

There may even be other possible explanations of the relationship: for example, had the customs of polygamy and concubinage died out among the Jews in New Testament times? If not, there might have been another wife or a concubine to produce James.

James was an Alien left by the UFO's!


first thought this thread was about Jesse James, dang. No Train
robbery.

[MammaStar]

Originally posted by flar7

first thought this thread was about Jesse James, dang. No Train
robbery.


OR a guy who builds monster trucks in his garage. :p

[Demeter]

Originally posted by FlamedLilly
wow growing up as a xian I never was taught that James was a relation to Jesus. If he was don't you think he would've recognized him? There is a section in the Bible where Jesus is teaching James the "gospel" I don't know where becuae I don't keep up on things like that, but James reacts, at least in my opinion, like he'd met Jesus for the frst time. Just another log on the fire.

There is a multiplicity of Jameses in the NT. There's the Apostle James, brother of John, son of Zebedee.

There's also the Apostle or James the younger, who may also be James son of Alpheus, who may also be the James whose mother Mary was the third Mary at the foot of the Cross ... confusing, isn't it?

This one is probably the one that is mentioned in Matthew 13:55:
"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?"

Catholic church history says that this James came to Jerusalem after Jesus' death, and only then became a Christian. In Galatians, Paul says he spoke with Peter and with James the Lord's brother. Presumably this would be the James with whom Paul spoke in Acts 15 and 21, since James the brother of John was executed in Acts 12.

[Flar's Freyja]

According to the article, the main focus is more upon whether the bones prove that Jesus actually lived more than James' relation to him.

[Demeter]

Originally posted by Freyja
According to the article, the main focus is more upon whether the bones prove that Jesus actually lived more than James' relation to him.

It's the box the bones were kept in, not the bones ...

And it really won't help, anyway. Yeshua was a VERY common name back then - it's translated as "Joshua" in all the historical documents from the period except those where it refers to Jesus of Nazareth.

This is what was actually on the box:

"It has almost no ornamentation except for a simple Aramaic inscription: Ya'akov bar Yosef akhui diYeshua -- "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

Yeshua was a VERY common name back then - it's translated as "Joshua" in all the historical documents from the period except those where it refers to Jesus of Nazareth. So the translator is already making an assumption about the identity of the brother in the correct translation of the name Yeshua which appears on the box.

I found it interesting comparing the posted version of the story with the one that appeared in my newspaper. The posted one says this:

"Jesus and Joseph were fairly common names of that era; James, slightly less so. Statistical analysis suggests that the possibility of these three names occurring in the given relationships (son of Joseph, brother of Jesus) is very small."

The newspaper story says that the statistical analysis shows that among a population of 80,000 (the estimated population of Jerusalem at the time) there would have been about 20 people who fit the description of being James son of Joseph and brother of Jesus. Admittedly, this is a small number, but far from zero.

The National Geographic version says the brother must have been an important person to be mentioned; the newspaper story says in order for a brother to be mentioned, "he could be the one paying for the funeral, or an important person." So there's other options. I had always considered the National Geographic to be fairly unbiased. I am a tad disappointed to see the way they're fuzzing the edges on this issue.