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Tigerwallah
May 15th, 2001, 02:19 PM
Akhenaten is the father-in-law of King Tutenkhamun. He was the first person to believe in one god (archeologically and historically speaking). He ruled Upper and Lower Egypt in the mid 14th century B.C. 300 years before Ramses the II and Exodus. Anyway, he decided that there was only one deity called the Aten, which is represtented by a sun disk with arms and hands extending as rays. He moved the seat of the government from Memphis to Al Amarna where he tried to erase the people's memories of the old gods and establish new traditions based on the Aten. The Aten, he believed, was both masculine and feminine.

After Akhenaten died, mysteriously, and his wife, the beautiful Nefretiti disappeared, his son-in-law, the "Boy King" Tut ruled for a brief time. He restored the old gods and goddesses, as the Aten really never was accepted by the people. He also moved the seat of the Pharoh back to Memphis.

Apparantly, Akhenaten really angered the gods and goddesses of Egypt. I remember hearing about a play that was produced in the 60's. The play was about Akhenaten, and the two women in the play were to dance and chant his name. Legend had it that his name was forbidden. Well, the night of the play, after the women chanted his name while dancing in a circle, the producer/playwrite died do to a strange stomach ailement, one of the women were blinded in her sleep, and the other suffered a similiar aliement to the producer that left her a vegetable.

I was just wondering if anyone else heard similar stories of curses and the gods taking revenge? I saw this particular story on Unsolved Mysteries, I believe. The show didn't go through the history of Akhenaten, so I didn't understand it's relevence. It wasn't untill many years later that I stumbled onto the reason the gods and goddesses would have cursed his name.

Yvonne Belisle
May 15th, 2001, 02:34 PM
I have to wake Naillosotarrain soon I'm sending him here for this one. I find it fasinating and I will be actively seeking more info on this subject.

Tigerwallah
May 15th, 2001, 02:36 PM
Here is a link to a following of this religion. There is some history and a cool pic of Akhenaten and the Aten. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Atenism

Tigerwallah
May 15th, 2001, 03:01 PM
Well, I just found the above link. I wanted to learn more, but you have to be a member to do so. So, I joined this Atenism group, and *pop* my computer shut itself off. It is only a year old, and has never done that before. I said a hasty prayer to Isis letting her know that I am only seeking information and am in no way following the Aten. Yeesh!!!

Naillosotarrain
May 15th, 2001, 09:04 PM
Akhenaten did not rule in the mid 14th dynasty, but rather in the late 18th dynasty. It is also believed that he suffered from Marfan's Syndrome.

http://kate.stange.com/egypt/

Naillosotarrain
May 15th, 2001, 09:14 PM
As for the rest, very interesting. I'll have to look into it.

Tigerwallah
May 15th, 2001, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Naillosotarrain
Akhenaten did not rule in the mid 14th dynasty, but rather in the late 18th dynasty. It is also believed that he suffered from Marfan's Syndrome.

http://kate.stange.com/egypt/

I did not specify dynasty, just century. He ruled in the mid 14th century 1352-1336 BCE, 18th Dynasty :D

adrian
May 16th, 2001, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Tigerwallah
Akhenaten is the father-in-law of King Tutenkhamun. He was the first person to believe in one god (archeologically and historically speaking). He ruled Upper and Lower Egypt in the mid 14th century B.C. 300 years before Ramses the II and Exodus. Anyway, he decided that there was only one deity called the Aten, which is represtented by a sun disk with arms and hands extending as rays. He moved the seat of the government from Memphis to Al Amarna where he tried to erase the people's memories of the old gods and establish new traditions based on the Aten. The Aten, he believed, was both masculine and feminine.

After Akhenaten died, mysteriously, and his wife, the beautiful Nefretiti disappeared, his son-in-law, the "Boy King" Tut ruled for a brief time. He restored the old gods and goddesses, as the Aten really never was accepted by the people. He also moved the seat of the Pharoh back to Memphis.

Apparantly, Akhenaten really angered the gods and goddesses of Egypt. I remember hearing about a play that was produced in the 60's. The play was about Akhenaten, and the two women in the play were to dance and chant his name. Legend had it that his name was forbidden. Well, the night of the play, after the women chanted his name while dancing in a circle, the producer/playwrite died do to a strange stomach ailement, one of the women were blinded in her sleep, and the other suffered a similiar aliement to the producer that left her a vegetable.

I was just wondering if anyone else heard similar stories of curses and the gods taking revenge? I saw this particular story on Unsolved Mysteries, I believe. The show didn't go through the history of Akhenaten, so I didn't understand it's relevence. It wasn't untill many years later that I stumbled onto the reason the gods and goddesses would have cursed his name. greetings tigerwallah! I love this story, as a child he wasn't particularly healthy and he was forced into his parents religion which would explain why he wanted to change things, but the people were used to the old gods/goddesses and really didn't want to change but being pharoah is like being god; you don't argue. But seriously...the story about the play, is that for real? The reason his name was cursed??? don't leave me hanging!!! oh wait...because he replaced them with his own god??? right??? I thought the guy was a visionary, to build a city from scratch and also allow the artist to paint and sculpt in a more natural way but i guess this all went against the status quo so...asassanate the pharoah, kill the wife and son and take over the kingdom...restore the old gods and become the reigning hero to the people. So much for being a visionary but what he tried to do is there for us to see, they said the city he built was beautiful sitting in the desert like a shinning gem. I would love to see it.

adrian
May 16th, 2001, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Tigerwallah
Well, I just found the above link. I wanted to learn more, but you have to be a member to do so. So, I joined this Atenism group, and *pop* my computer shut itself off. It is only a year old, and has never done that before. I said a hasty prayer to Isis letting her know that I am only seeking information and am in no way following the Aten. Yeesh!!! I was going to try the link but after that *POP* i decided that i don't need computer problems...i'm sure the site is worth exploring but i'll just take your word for it.

Tigerwallah
May 16th, 2001, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by adrian
greetings tigerwallah! I love this story, as a child he wasn't particularly healthy and he was forced into his parents religion which would explain why he wanted to change things, but the people were used to the old gods/goddesses and really didn't want to change but being pharoah is like being god; you don't argue. But seriously...the story about the play, is that for real? The reason his name was cursed??? don't leave me hanging!!! oh wait...because he replaced them with his own god??? right??? I thought the guy was a visionary, to build a city from scratch and also allow the artist to paint and sculpt in a more natural way but i guess this all went against the status quo so...asassanate the pharoah, kill the wife and son and take over the kingdom...restore the old gods and become the reigning hero to the people. So much for being a visionary but what he tried to do is there for us to see, they said the city he built was beautiful sitting in the desert like a shinning gem. I would love to see it.

I saw the thing on either Unsolved Mysteries, or maybe another show like it. It was a long time ago, like 1993, I think. Anyway, I've been looking for something online about it, but haven't found it. I believe the story to be real. I love the Armana period for it's artwork. I would imagine that Al Amarna was quite beautiful. I think that Akhenaten was very visionary in some aspects, but also quite vain in others. I think that he knew he was writing himself into the pages of history when he changed the religion of Egypt. He gave himself the honor of being the chosen of the Aten. Of course, the Pharohs were living gods, so I suppose that they all did, but he made himself more important. Of course, a little over a thousand years later Jesus did the same thing. Hmmmm?

adrian
May 16th, 2001, 12:24 AM
Yes, every now and then someone comes along who writes their own page for prosperity or rewrites it to their liking but in any case they are remembered and either worshipped as in the case of jesus or hated and dispised as in hitlers case.
It does seem that Akhenaten was vain but then why would he have himself painted that way? He was portrayed with feminine features, the hips, the lower tummy, eyes and lips all feminine in nature. I would think that he would have himself pictured more masculine, strong featured and such.
The guy was pharoah and probably subject to meglomania as was hitler..."I am God, and this is my world" kind of thing, who was gonna argue with that?

Tigerwallah
May 16th, 2001, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by adrian
Yes, every now and then someone comes along who writes their own page for prosperity or rewrites it to their liking but in any case they are remembered and either worshipped as in the case of jesus or hated and dispised as in hitlers case.
It does seem that Akhenaten was vain but then why would he have himself painted that way? He was portrayed with feminine features, the hips, the lower tummy, eyes and lips all feminine in nature. I would think that he would have himself pictured more masculine, strong featured and such.
The guy was pharoah and probably subject to meglomania as was hitler..."I am God, and this is my world" kind of thing, who was gonna argue with that?

:D I don't know, maybe he was jealous of his wife, the most beautiful woman in Egypt? Seems he was a bit odd. I've heard the debates over him having Marfan's desease or something else. I suppose it's possible, frankly I think the guy was a little light in his sandles. There was that one Pharaoh who wanted to look scholarly and portrayed himself to look fat and soft like a scribe. I don't remember his name, but the statue of him is on display at the Met. Anyway, I'm beat. Gonna head off to bed. See you later. Em Hotep my friend. Before I do, here is a pic of a sculpture of Akhenaten. He looks absolutely gorgeous - in a womanly way. http://www.cosmopolis.ch/english/cosmo5/pharaohs.htm

Vinga
May 16th, 2001, 01:07 AM
The beauty ideal hasn't exactly stayed the same through out the centuries, perhaps feminine features was a sign of beauty, wealth or smarts or something like that during his time. Look at the famous image of Tutankhamen with the large eyes and full lips, not exactly masculine. I know he was only a teen when he died but I saw a show on Discovery or TLC about mummies and they had with computer technology reconstructed the face of Tutankhamen, and lets just say he didn't exactly look like that.
Even in later times it has been very common for kings, queens and noble men etc to have their portraits done with features they didn't possess in real life.

adrian
May 16th, 2001, 04:42 PM
Greetings!
I too am inclined to believe he was a little lit in the sandels but then...to each his own, even i can appreciate some women clothing, not that i wear dresses but i have been know to wear a sarong during my rituals or on a tropical beach away from "those who know and frown". I'll be going to the Met this weekend so i'll find out who you're trying to remember and thanks for the picture, he does seem feminine and may very well have been a little envious of her beauty but we'll never know.
I must admit that some of the flowing styles i see women wear seem so comfortable and liberating to the spirit but as a male in a male oriented society i would be crucified if i took that turn, and that is a shame because we can't be or wear what we want without someone saying it's wrong...who told them it was wrong?
Even in victorian times the men seemed a little lite but if you challenged them to a dule, they readily accepted and proved that their manhood was not an issue but they way the other guy thought (past tense) was the issue.
I haven't seen the image of king tut but i will this weekend.
Em Hotep

Yvonne Belisle
May 16th, 2001, 04:55 PM
I had a friend when I was at the University of Utah that wore mini kilts. He looked better than I ever will in them and he was comfortable. Something you might want to be aware of is that a large number of men who like to wear what is considered womens clothing are straight. Just something to keep in mind when someone raises an eyebrow over your choice of clothing. Of course I also had a few friends that were and are gay that wear womens clothing and have a female persona and they look very very good. Nothing wrong with it either way.

adrian
May 16th, 2001, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
I had a friend when I was at the University of Utah that wore mini kilts. He looked better than I ever will in them and he was comfortable. Something you might want to be aware of is that a large number of men who like to wear what is considered womens clothing are straight. Just something to keep in mind when someone raises an eyebrow over your choice of clothing. Of course I also had a few friends that were and are gay that wear womens clothing and have a female persona and they look very very good. Nothing wrong with it either way. Oh i agree, there is nothing wrong with it either way and some of us can always say it's cultural. I know a few people who wear women clothing also and they do look better than some women but i wouldn't want to take it that far, only to be comfortable and loose in what i wear as well as how i can feel especially while doing rituals or meditation, it's not good to feel confined or restricted in movement or while sitting still trying to focus on the universe instead of my pants pinching me or my shirt chokeing me around my neck, the only comfortable times i have in ritual in in my home skyclad but wouldn't it be wonderful if i could go out and experience it??? Sorry, just thinking.

Yvonne Belisle
May 16th, 2001, 05:25 PM
You can always rent a cabin in the middle of nowhere for a day or so and have a blast.:)

Tigerwallah
May 16th, 2001, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by adrian
Oh i agree, there is nothing wrong with it either way and some of us can always say it's cultural. I know a few people who wear women clothing also and they do look better than some women but i wouldn't want to take it that far, only to be comfortable and loose in what i wear as well as how i can feel especially while doing rituals or meditation, it's not good to feel confined or restricted in movement or while sitting still trying to focus on the universe instead of my pants pinching me or my shirt chokeing me around my neck, the only comfortable times i have in ritual in in my home skyclad but wouldn't it be wonderful if i could go out and experience it??? Sorry, just thinking.

Adrian, you could always tell anyone who came across you that you are lost on your way to the Skull and Bones meeting. Then ask them if they've seen George W. anywhere?

Earth Walker
May 16th, 2001, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Tigerwallah


Adrian, you could always tell anyone who came across you that you are lost on your way to the Skull and Bones meeting. Then ask them if they've seen George W. anywhere?


LOLROFL 8O

For those who love, time is eternity....

adrian
May 17th, 2001, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
You can always rent a cabin in the middle of nowhere for a day or so and have a blast.:) Never thought of that one, it really is a good idea; to be way out and alone for maybe a week
i could really connect with nature in the deepest way and all i would have to look out for is the occasional bear or ranger...cool.

adrian
May 17th, 2001, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Tigerwallah


Adrian, you could always tell anyone who came across you that you are lost on your way to the Skull and Bones meeting. Then ask them if they've seen George W. anywhere? LOLROTF!!! Yeah and before you know it i'll be sitting in front of a shrink with a white coat on...thanks for the laugh.

adrian
May 17th, 2001, 10:24 PM
My favorite image of Ankhenaten is the one where he is sitting with Nefertiri and the children with the rays of Ra shinning down upon them. To me this image shows the love and peace they shared together, it was as if it was a message that said we had each other and life was good. That is until someone brought it all to an end...so sad that someone so visionary was killed for his beliefs...but it was a start towards monothesim and it seems we have him to thank for it.

Tigerwallah
May 17th, 2001, 10:38 PM
I like the artist revolution of that era for that reason. Everything was far less formal, and much more family oriented. It is nice to see a Pharaoh and his family enjoying life rather than the equally beautiful, but stiff and formal art of the Pharaohs and gods giving homage to eachother that dominated the art world of Ancient Egypt before Armana.

I'm glad he was the first person in recorded history to be monotheistic. Someone had to be first, and it provides a great argument as to why "Yahweh" or "Jahovah" could not have been the one and only god in existance at any time in history.

adrian
May 17th, 2001, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Tigerwallah
I like the artist revolution of that era for that reason. Everything was far less formal, and much more family oriented. It is nice to see a Pharaoh and his family enjoying life rather than the equally beautiful, but stiff and formal art of the Pharaohs and gods giving homage to eachother that dominated the art world of Ancient Egypt before Armana.

I'm glad he was the first person in recorded history to be monotheistic. Someone had to be first, and it provides a great argument as to why "Yahweh" or "Jahovah" could not have been the one and only god in existance at any time in history. You're right, the art was stiff before that time, and there was hardly any scenes of the pharaoh with wife and kids, just them paying homage to the gods/goddesses which was done daily. you know, i have never done anything spiritual on a daily basis until i embraced paganism, that says a lot. And i agree with your statement about that being a good arguement, but ignorance is a very strong thing some people wouldn't believe it even if you fed them the truth....no offence.

Tigerwallah
May 18th, 2001, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by adrian
[B And i agree with your statement about that being a good arguement, but ignorance is a very strong thing some people wouldn't believe it even if you fed them the truth....no offence. [/B]

I've found that, but I always tell them to go out and find archeological evidence of Yahweh of Jahovah before 1200 BCE. and come back to me for a full apology when they've found it. I've never seen anyone return. Incidentally, I've found the same thing for the existence of Moses and Jews enslaved in Egypt. I really don't believe that Moses was a real person (There was a Babylonian guy named Mices who kinda fit the bill, but not exactly). Also, I have seen no evidence of foriegners outside of Romans and Nubians to have been workers in ancient Egypt.

adrian
May 21st, 2001, 12:56 AM
Greetings Tigerwallah!
I agree but still, even if you showed them the proof first hand some would still not believe it...some people are really fanatic about what they have been taught even to the point of causing you and i pain; sometimes i wonder where this is going to take us because in order to change things we have to start with ourselves and most of us are not willing to do that and then we have to re-educate each other in truth.
Fear is a strong adversary, and together with ignorance it can be a dangerious combination...

Naillosotarrain
July 12th, 2001, 03:40 AM
Here's another web page with some more information on Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten.
http://www.touregypt.net/18dyn10.htm

Tigerwallah
July 18th, 2001, 09:49 PM
Thanks Naillostarrian :D

Cinnamon Girl
November 29th, 2002, 10:04 PM
bump!