visualized versus physical circles

[Ben Gruagach]

I'm curious to hear about how various Wiccans practice with regard to circles drawn for ritual space. Do you use a visualized circle (perhaps marked out with objects, such as quarter candles, to indicate boundaries) or do you insist on using a physically drawn circle on the ground?

If you use a physically drawn circle on the ground does it have to be composed of specific materials (i.e. salt) or do you find you're pretty flexible while still needing an actual visible circle drawn on the ground?

[David19]

I'm not Wiccan, so, I hope it's ok for me to post my opinion, but, I don't think viuslizing a circle, or visualizing anything really, is magical at all, like the author of whywiccanssuck.com said, if you have to visualize/imagine it, you're not manipulating outside forces, it's not metaphysically real. At best, it might be comforting psychologically, it might make you feel safe, but, that's not magic, IMO anyway, it's watered-down psychology.

For myself (circles are considered protective in Mesopotamia, it's, very likely, that's where it western magic got it from, as well as other things), I'd probably create it physically (using flour, which was considered protective in Mesopotamia, although it'd depend on the magic I'm doing, if it was ceremonial, I'd probably use the traditional associations), and also create it metaphysically, if that makes any sense.

The course Witchcraft From the Ground Up has a good section on creating them, the relevant page is here (http://web.archive.org/web/20020406084222/whywiccanssuck.com/learn7.html).

That's just my opinion, anyway, I just don't see visualization as magic, like, if doing a money spell was as simple as visualizing money surrounding you, everyone would be doing it, if doing protective magic was just visualizing an egg-shaped cacoon of white light surrounding you, or a bunch of white light, etc, then, again, everyone would be doing it, and you'd see more tangiable results.

[cydira]

David, that's a very interesting perspective and you brought up several point that, while they don't fit too well in this thread would be fascinating to discuss. Perhaps another time. :smile:

For my part, I find that I am flexible in my use of visualized or physical circles. My use of visualized circles is such that I don't necessarily even need quarter markers to delineate points of orientation for me. As long as I know where the cardinal directions are, I'm good to go. :)

If I feel that it is needed, I'll use quarter markers or draw out my circle. If I am drawing out my circle, it's usually outdoors with a twig on the ground. Indoors, I use either a bit of chalk or some stones from my rock collection. It depends on if I'm using a floor that has a rug or not. With a toddler about and a baby on the way, I use visualized circles most of the time, sans quarter markers, because it's safest and easiest for everyone involved.

[Lunacie]

It depends. Working by myself, usually in my own room, I have wards and protections already in place and don't cast a circle, although I often ask the four elements to help me. Outdoors or working with a group I find having actual markers is helpful so the group is visualizing the same effect.

It's rare for David and I to disagree, but I find visualization can be very magical and very effective.

[Ben Gruagach]

I'll have to disagree with David's comments about things that are visualized not being magickal. Here's why:

The essence of magick, to me, is working with invisible realms. Those realms are perceptible to us only through nonphysical senses -- sometimes those nonphysical clues trigger physical clues (omens etc.) but in my opinion it has to start with the nonphysical.

In many occult traditions magickal practitioners describe the main nonphysical realm that they work with as the "astral" realm (names vary of course) and insist that this realm is one where our magick is the result of directed imagination producing results on the astral realm which in turn manifest on the physical realm if things have been done properly.

Directed imagination, magickal will, and intent are therefore key parts of doing magick, at least in many magickal systems. If we do all the physical steps in casting a circle, complete with laying down a drawn boundary with salt or flour or whatever, it's nothing but salt or flour or whatever on the ground if it isn't also consciously imbued with magick. That means using magickal visualization to work on the invisible levels and transform the salt or flour or whatever into a magickal boundary.

It's why so many classical grimoires say that when you cast a circle you should go over the lines you've drawn with various ritual tools -- the point is the symbolism it triggers in the practitioner which brings about the appropriate magickal visualization.

So I guess I'm saying in my humble opinion a purely visualized circle can work, and a physically drawn circle can work provided the visualization component is included, but a physically drawn circle without any attempt to do the visualization won't work.

[Clash of Vision]

I think a physical circle is a neat concept (if only visually stimulating), but not a necessary one. It's all about creating theatrics to put the magician in the state to perform, and the more the better, I suppose. That said, I've only used markers, though I probably would draw circles and stuff if I had the proper environment.

[Lunacie]

It may depend on what you're doing, and how many you're working with, just how necessary having a actual physical circle is. Note, a physical Circle is actually more of a sphere or an orb. It is useful for blocking prying eyes and also for containing the energy you raise until you're ready to release it to do the job.

One person working alone can generally hold the energy until ready to release, but for a group working it's nice to hold the energy until the proper moment. Some people may get a little to eager or impatient, and some may go "Wait? Now? Really? Now?"

When working alone I rarely feel the need to cast a circle to protect from prying eyes or from having the energy stolen - which happened a few times in the early days of my learning phase. My teacher thought because there were wards on the property/house that we didn't need a circle, and he was wrong. Having someone latch on and start draining all that lovely energy you're pouring out - and then keep pulling your own personal energy - Just Not Fun.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I'm not Wiccan so do not know how much my input will matter to the question at hand.

At first I though I do not cast a circle, but after more consideration I realize that I do but not in the traditional sense. Regardless of location I always use fire as part of my ritual. If inside then a candle, if outside a ground fire of some sort. Yet I make no physical or mental presentations of the circle.

This is where the notion of the circle came into play for me. The fire creates the floating circle about me. As the edges shimmer and float, it reminds me of the shimmering and floating border area that seperates me from the realms that I try to contact, or the space where I try to give birth to those things that will take form in the physical.

It creates the sphere that surrounds me, and forms the bubble that I use to mold the energy I call upon. It forms the soft barriers that represent the ever shifting borders between the winds and the elements. It also serves to show the progression of the day as both the lighted day and the dark of night are present to create the liminal point.

The very circle I stand in breathes with me as the edge push forth or receede as the flame flickers. It creates three points of reference as well. I have the solid inner ring where the flame dominates the place, the secondary ring where light and dark shift for dominance and the outer ring where darkness lies unbroken.

It creates all three time frames for me, the stark and clear present of the flame, the shifting movement of things that approach or fadeaway from me and the future or past hidden in the shadows. In someways the very notion of what is, what could be and what was.

Yet my circle calls for no creating of boundaries or elements to mark them. There is no hard line, only the soft shifting edges of the plains and demensions about me.

Don't know if this answered the question but if nothing else it is another perspective to consider.

[Jenett]

If you use a physically drawn circle on the ground does it have to be composed of specific materials (i.e. salt) or do you find you're pretty flexible while still needing an actual visible circle drawn on the ground?

Sort of both.

Our ritual circle includes four quarter altars, which mark the outside compass points of the primary ritual space. These are generally up against whatever wall/other space division makes sense.

That said, for most ritual work, once the circle scribe is done, we generally expand the edges of the circle out to encompass the entire house. (Both my covenmate and I live in houses with fairly small footprints - mine's 20'x20', her's is perhaps twice that.)

This makes it easy for someone to grab something from the kitchen, or for us to bake something as part of ritual work, or whatever else is relevant. For rituals where a tighter circle is appropriate (we want tight control over more energy, for example) we do that, and just work to the edges of the circle defined by the quarter altar.

We don't do visual outlines on the floor (indoors, I'm not sure that there's any method that's really practical, honestly.) Outdoors, my former group would do seasonally-appropriate plants for public ritual, which I like a lot. (For example, local wildflowers, sunflowers, wheat sheaves, etc)

[David19]

I'll have to disagree with David's comments about things that are visualized not being magickal. Here's why:

The essence of magick, to me, is working with invisible realms. Those realms are perceptible to us only through nonphysical senses -- sometimes those nonphysical clues trigger physical clues (omens etc.) but in my opinion it has to start with the nonphysical.

In many occult traditions magickal practitioners describe the main nonphysical realm that they work with as the "astral" realm (names vary of course) and insist that this realm is one where our magick is the result of directed imagination producing results on the astral realm which in turn manifest on the physical realm if things have been done properly.

Directed imagination, magickal will, and intent are therefore key parts of doing magick, at least in many magickal systems. If we do all the physical steps in casting a circle, complete with laying down a drawn boundary with salt or flour or whatever, it's nothing but salt or flour or whatever on the ground if it isn't also consciously imbued with magick. That means using magickal visualization to work on the invisible levels and transform the salt or flour or whatever into a magickal boundary.

It's why so many classical grimoires say that when you cast a circle you should go over the lines you've drawn with various ritual tools -- the point is the symbolism it triggers in the practitioner which brings about the appropriate magickal visualization.

So I guess I'm saying in my humble opinion a purely visualized circle can work, and a physically drawn circle can work provided the visualization component is included, but a physically drawn circle without any attempt to do the visualization won't work.

I probably didn't explain my original post properly (it's why I shouldn't post in a rush), but, I didn't mean to say, a circle should just be cast using physical tools, 'cause, like you said, if you just do things physically, you, probably, are just going to have flour on a floor, or names written on the floor, but, to make it metaphysically/magically real, you feel out the energy, which isn't just imagining it/creating it in your head, you feel it out, and draw it (metaphysically, whether you use a physical circle or not, is up to you, and how the symbolism might work for you). I hope that's cleared my origional point up a bit (the Witchcraft From the Ground Up course explains it a lot better than me).

[Nox_Mortus]

I probably didn't explain my original post properly (it's why I shouldn't post in a rush), but, I didn't mean to say, a circle should just be cast using physical tools, 'cause, like you said, if you just do things physically, you, probably, are just going to have flour on a floor, or names written on the floor, but, to make it metaphysically/magically real, you feel out the energy, which isn't just imagining it/creating it in your head, you feel it out, and draw it (metaphysically, whether you use a physical circle or not, is up to you, and how the symbolism might work for you). I hope that's cleared my origional point up a bit (the Witchcraft From the Ground Up course explains it a lot better than me).

That sort of thing is generally what people mean when they talk about visualization, you aren't just pretending to see something, you are willing it into being.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Just for those who find it interesting...

Using the Runic Gematria Code...

Translating modern English , into Rune Code
number values...

Sphere = 425 = Containment Field...

As well...

425 = Stand upright , then going round in a circle + Mgieck Circle

Just sayin'...




Note, a physical Circle is actually more of a sphere or an orb. It is useful for blocking prying eyes and also for containing the energy you raise until you're ready to release it to do the job.

[Gede]

I have to agree with Ben here in that visualisation is a strong magickal skill which can be harnessed to create effective change.

Generally speaking humans are very visual creatures as it is perhaps the most dominating sense in terms of interaction with the external world. Thus when we 'see' something or are able to view it it becomes meaningful and thus is imbued with power. The Italian proverb "Seeing is Believing" finds its context here. There has been scientific research (I can't remember the source/reference right now) conducted on visualisation and it proved that when something is visualised the same 'lights' in the brain turn on as when that thing/scene/object is 'physically' viewed by the person. Thus visualisation can help to stimulate the neurological pathways, creating chemical reactions in the body which in turn fuel our emotions and thus we gain the ability to raise, channel and direct power. Visualisation also creates a metaphysical blueprint through which our 'released energy' travels to manifest in the physical here and now.

I hope that makes sense :)

Blessings, Eilan~

[David19]

I have to agree with Ben here in that visualisation is a strong magickal skill which can be harnessed to create effective change.

Generally speaking humans are very visual creatures as it is perhaps the most dominating sense in terms of interaction with the external world. Thus when we 'see' something or are able to view it it becomes meaningful and thus is imbued with power. The Italian proverb "Seeing is Believing" finds its context here. There has been scientific research (I can't remember the source/reference right now) conducted on visualisation and it proved that when something is visualised the same 'lights' in the brain turn on as when that thing/scene/object is 'physically' viewed by the person. Thus visualisation can help to stimulate the neurological pathways, creating chemical reactions in the body which in turn fuel our emotions and thus we gain the ability to raise, channel and direct power. Visualisation also creates a metaphysical blueprint through which our 'released energy' travels to manifest in the physical here and now.

I hope that makes sense :)

Blessings, Eilan~

Thanks for that info, it does make some kind of sense, and has given me some food for thought.

[Louisvillian]

I'm curious to hear about how various Wiccans practice with regard to circles drawn for ritual space. Do you use a visualized circle or do you insist on using a physically drawn circle on the ground?

I don't usually have a lot of materials to work with. So, I make do with just visualising a circle. Even the materials I do use are very rudimentary and ad hoc (like using a butter knife as a ritual knife). :bigredgri

But this is more an issue of availability. If I had my own place and my own stuff, I'd have a full set of more conventional materials.

[Ben Gruagach]

I thought I'd add a little follow-up on this thread to add an interesting tidbit on the topic.

About a month ago I got a copy of Patricia Crowther's latest book, "Covensense." It's done in a question-answer format with the answers based of course on Crowther's years of experience as a Gardnerian high priestess and her own personal opinions.

It's an interesting book but to be honest I was a bit disappointed in the way she frequently presented her personal opinions as "The Way Things Are." Anyway...

She mentions at one point that in her opinion circles must be physically cast, with some sort of actual visible marking on the ground or floor for the circle. (It must be nice to be able to always have a permanently-inscribed circle or to be able to use flour or other powders on the floor. It's not practical for some of us.) She even goes on to say that in her opinion it's just not right to do a circle without a physical circle drawn on the floor, or with "mere" visualization.

It's certainly one point of view but it's not one I agree with myself.

[Lunacie]

A physical circle can be helpful in reminding people, especially newbies, not to step over the boundary. But I always believed that not having the circle marked physically encouraged us to use our other senses to see/feel/sense the presence of the circle.

I do think Gardner advocated using a cord to mark the boundary of the circle, I just never felt it was necessary. And in a way it limits visualization because the circle is so much more than just a liine on the floor or the ground, it's a complete sphere that reaches over our heads as well as beneath the ground below our feet.

[green aventurine]

I do think Gardner advocated using a cord to mark the boundary of the circle, I just never felt it was necessary. And in a way it limits visualization because the circle is so much more than just a liine on the floor or the ground, it's a complete sphere that reaches over our heads as well as beneath the ground below our feet.

Yes, that was my understanding of Wicca when I looked at it for a little while last year. I personally might draw a circle round me of light and rotate it making a sphere, all in my mind, before using an MP3 drumming track I have for journeying -- I might take it with me like a bubble.

To me, drawing a physical circle with flour etc is still incomplete as you still need to visualise the sphere so I don't really see why it's that much more real or necessary than doing the whole thing in one's mind. Maybe I missed something? -- I don't have the experience/knowledge of Wicca as you and Ben do.

[Lunacie]

Yes, that was my understanding of Wicca when I looked at it for a little while last year. I personally might draw a circle round me of light and rotate it making a sphere, all in my mind, before using an MP3 drumming track I have for journeying -- I might take it with me like a bubble.

To me, drawing a physical circle with flour etc is still incomplete as you still need to visualise the sphere so I don't really see why it's that much more real or necessary than doing the whole thing in one's mind. Maybe I missed something? -- I don't have the experience/knowledge of Wicca as you and Ben do.

I don't think having a physical representation of the circle is necessary or makes it more 'real' - but that's just one of the reasons I call myself Eclectic Wiccan rather than Gardnerian Wiccan.

[green aventurine]

I don't think having a physical representation of the circle is necessary or makes it more 'real'

I know, I was agreeing with you both lol sorry if it wasn't that clear, I'm quite tired right now. What I meant was that perhaps either of you might know of a reason or have a theory of why somebody like Crowther would say it was necessary etc (other than because it's traditional) because you have more experience or knowledge about these things.

[brymble]

If you want to get really technical, then many might not consider me truly "Wiccan", but that would be really splitting the fine theological hairs. "Wiccan" is what I put down on medical forms for me and the kids, because most people (around here anyway) at least have a minimal understanding of what that is.

To be honest, after all this time, my "ritual" as gotten more and more spontaneous and informal. My daughter once gave me a handful of beautiful white quartz stones that I suspect were harvested from somebody's landscaping, and as there are 13 of them, sometimes I use those for a circle. But most of the time I don't bother casting a physical circle at all, since chances are my cat will play with it, and the room in which I practice is usually a bit crowded. Another advantage to a visualized circle is that it can get up and move around with me, as I believe someone else may have already mentioned. Even the visualized circles tend to be very minimal. As the years have passed I've stood less and less on ceremony and more on action and results.

[Lunacie]

I know, I was agreeing with you both lol sorry if it wasn't that clear, I'm quite tired right now. What I meant was that perhaps either of you might know of a reason or have a theory of why somebody like Crowther would say it was necessary etc (other than because it's traditional) because you have more experience or knowledge about these things.

Yeah, I knew you were basically agreeing with me. I was just explaining where I'm coming from. I really don't know why those who use a physical representation of the circle do so, but extrapolating from the reasons I find it helpful to use other tools in group ritual - that I don't bother with in solitary practice - is that it helps everyone to focus their thoughts and their energies on the same thing.

As long as they've been taught to start with the glowing line of light just above the ground and see it growing into a complete sphere, then there's really nothing wrong with having a physical representation of it.

[Ben Gruagach]

Well, if I ever win millions in the lottery I'll buy a house in the country and set up a permanent ritual space. Complete with a physical circle on the floor or ground.

Until then I'll use candles or other markers for the quarters and stick with a mainly visualized circle.

Actually, that's another interesting related question: do others here routinely put something in the four quarters as part of their circle casting? Candles, other objects? Do you ever go "all out" and have whole altars set up for the four quarters with candles, objects, offerings, etc.?

[Lunacie]

Well, if I ever win millions in the lottery I'll buy a house in the country and set up a permanent ritual space. Complete with a physical circle on the floor or ground.

Until then I'll use candles or other markers for the quarters and stick with a mainly visualized circle.

Actually, that's another interesting related question: do others here routinely put something in the four quarters as part of their circle casting? Candles, other objects? Do you ever go "all out" and have whole altars set up for the four quarters with candles, objects, offerings, etc.?

I've done it many ways. In my personal space I have a small altar with candles in colors to represent the four elements and also the Lord and Lady. I don't put them in each quarter of the room, they stay on the altar.

I've done group ritual the same way, having colored candles or some other representation on the altar that stays on the altar. I've also had group rituals with nothing at all to represent the elements. For awhile we worked in one member's backyard where she not only had a lovely large circle laid out in stone with a firepit in the center, she had tiki torches at each quarter with colored ribbons tied around them to represent the elements.

It all works for me, no one way seems better to me than another.

[green aventurine]

Yeah, I knew you were basically agreeing with me.
That's cool, we got there in the end lol

I was just explaining where I'm coming from.

Ah, yes. I remember now, you’re an Ecleccan :)

I really don't know why those who use a physical representation of the circle do so, but extrapolating from the reasons I find it helpful to use other tools in group ritual - that I don't bother with in solitary practice - is that it helps everyone to focus their thoughts and their energies on the same thing.

I think that's a very good answer and the correct one, IMO. Thanks.




But most of the time I don't bother casting a physical circle at all, since chances are my cat will play with it, and the room in which I practice is usually a bit crowded.
Yes, two good reasons to make a circle visually, IMO. When I looked at Wicca, my room wasn't physically big enough to create a sphere that would go over the top of my head without making the circle hit a wall so I had no choice really. Also nowadays I will journey, when at home, lying on my bed which is right next to a wall so it’s impossible for me to make a circle physically if I want to use one.


Actually, that's another interesting related question: do others here routinely put something in the four quarters as part of their circle casting? Candles, other objects? Do you ever go "all out" and have whole altars set up for the four quarters with candles, objects, offerings, etc.?
A good question. Again, I used to go all out with my imagination and visualisations. E.g. for the element of air, I would imagine winds blowing and symbols like a sword from tarot towards the East of the circle etc

[brymble]

Well, if I ever win millions in the lottery I'll buy a house in the country and set up a permanent ritual space. Complete with a physical circle on the floor or ground.

Until then I'll use candles or other markers for the quarters and stick with a mainly visualized circle.

Actually, that's another interesting related question: do others here routinely put something in the four quarters as part of their circle casting? Candles, other objects? Do you ever go "all out" and have whole altars set up for the four quarters with candles, objects, offerings, etc.?


Heavens, I have a cottage in the country right now, and can't imagine maintaining a permanent ritual space! (Unless, of course, you consider the whole thing my "permanent ritual space", although really I think of it more as something I carry around with me, like the painted turtle the kids rescued from the middle of the road.) It's already too much to keep the weeds out of the fire pit as it is!

Regarding quarter markers, I do have larger stones that I sometimes use with the white ones in marking out a circle, either at the stations of the elements, or the five points of the pentagram, depending on what I'm doing. I don't have the space for altars for each element, and can't really imagine going through all that trouble anyway.

When it comes to circle casting, I have to say that the witch who most inspired me in that art was not Janet Farrar, Ivo Dominguez, Starhawk, or even anything from the Key of Solomon. The best circle casting I ever read was by none other than my greatest magickal role model, Nanny Ogg, in Terry Pratchett's Lords and Ladies:


"Do you mean using Skorhian Runes or the Triple Invocation octogram?" said Perdita.
Nanny Ogg put her head to one side.
"Never heard of them things, dear," she said. "I always does a magic circle like this..."
She sidled crabwise away from the fat girl, dragging one toe in the dust. She edged around in a rough circle about fifteen feet across, still dragging her boot, until she backed into Perdita.
"Sorry. There. Done it."


Now that's how to cast a circle!

[Lunacie]

Yes, two good reasons to make a circle visually, IMO. When I looked at Wicca, my room wasn't physically big enough to create a sphere that would go over the top of my head without making the circle hit a wall so I had no choice really. Also nowadays I will journey, when at home, lying on my bed which is right next to a wall so it’s impossible for me to make a circle physically if I want to use one.


A good question. Again, I used to go all out with my imagination and visualisations. E.g. for the element of air, I would imagine winds blowing and symbols like a sword from tarot towards the East of the circle etc

Actually there's nothing wrong with having a circle that goes beyond the walls or the ceiling. It's impossible to cast a sphere that doesn't extend under the floor or the ground, eh? So why would walls make any difference to the space you're enclosing with your circle?

Visualizing personal symbols is wonderful when you're working alone. I've even had the group do that, saying call to whatever speaks to you of the East and the Air.

I too like to feel a breeze blowing - or just imagine one - and I inhale the fresh clean air, fluttering my hands as if feeling the breeze. For South I imagine warming my hands at a fire and physically stand as if I were doing that. For West I imagine dipping my hands into a clear pool of water and watching it flow back out of my hands again. And for North I generally bend down and touch the ground as if picking up a clod of dirt or a stone. After each of these visualizations and actions I bring my hands to my center, bringing the energy of that particular element into my body.

When inviting the Lord and the Lady into the circle, I reach up with hands and my arms, a welcoming gesture, letting their energy flow over me and into me, again bringing my hands and the energy to my center.

When releasing the elements and thanking them, I lift my hands as if releasing a bird, etc, and again I bring my hands back to my center to remind myself that I myself am composed of each of those elements, they are a part of me just as I am a part of the world they combine to create. And yes, I do think about these things every time I'm part of a circle, whether I'm casting it or not, whether I'm inviting the Elements or the Dieties.

[Jenett]

Actually, that's another interesting related question: do others here routinely put something in the four quarters as part of their circle casting? Candles, other objects? Do you ever go "all out" and have whole altars set up for the four quarters with candles, objects, offerings, etc.?

It's common practice in my trad to do something. My parent group gets moderately elaborate: colored altar cloths, candles (which do serve a specific purpose in our structure, by providing the element a designated 'seat' as it were, within the circle.) and usually 3-5 other objects appropriate to the element.

So, for example, for air in the east, you might have a pale yellow or lavender (we tend to use yellow) altar cloth, a matching glass candleholder with a candle, a feather, a pen (for the associations with knowledge and intellect), a paintbrush (for creativity), or a woodwind instrument. There might also be a framed print or photograph that reflects the element in some way.

They keep a cabinet of different items, and so the altar's always a little different. Depends who does set-up, etc.

In my coven, I live in a tiny little house, and have very limited storage space, so we made a deliberate decision to go a slightly different route. We created quarter altar cloths using solar paints and with the symbols and images we really wanted. (For example, our South cloth, for fire, is in broad strokes of red and orange, and has some stencil designs of a sun in the center.)

We then have a candleholder for each quarter (ours are carved soapstone, with relevant design/pattern choices for each element.) We'd eventually like to add a small decorated box that would hold some small items (relevant stones, etc.) that could be put out.

One other lovely but easy (to make, and to store) one we've used in the past is to take ribbons in 4-6 elemental colors (for water, for example, this might be 2 or 3 shades of blue, 2 shades of purple, and white) and tied them together at one end, leaving a length of 3-5 feet. Coiled or laid out on a plain color altar cloth, they look really lovely. (Or if you are outside, you can stick them on a stake or something similar to blow in the wind, as long as they're not going to get in the way.)

[Rowan Darkmoon]

When I use a circle, I use a visualized one marked out at the four corners with objects I have to represent the elements. For everyday things that I do though, I don't bother with a circle; it's usually only when I want to get "fancy-smancy" that I bother.

[green aventurine]

Actually there's nothing wrong with having a circle that goes beyond the walls or the ceiling. It's impossible to cast a sphere that doesn't extend under the floor or the ground, eh? So why would walls make any difference to the space you're enclosing with your circle?

Yes, I agree. It's another reason why I think it's right what you said about the reason for using a physical circle. I never felt the need really to cast/draw the circle physically and still don't since I always work by myself.

Visualizing personal symbols is wonderful when you're working alone. I've even had the group do that, saying call to whatever speaks to you of the East and the Air.

I too like to feel a breeze blowing - or just imagine one - and I inhale the fresh clean air, fluttering my hands as if feeling the breeze. For South I imagine warming my hands at a fire and physically stand as if I were doing that. For West I imagine dipping my hands into a clear pool of water and watching it flow back out of my hands again. And for North I generally bend down and touch the ground as if picking up a clod of dirt or a stone. After each of these visualizations and actions I bring my hands to my center, bringing the energy of that particular element into my body.

When inviting the Lord and the Lady into the circle, I reach up with hands and my arms, a welcoming gesture, letting their energy flow over me and into me, again bringing my hands and the energy to my center.

When releasing the elements and thanking them, I lift my hands as if releasing a bird, etc, and again I bring my hands back to my center to remind myself that I myself am composed of each of those elements, they are a part of me just as I am a part of the world they combine to create. And yes, I do think about these things every time I'm part of a circle, whether I'm casting it or not, whether I'm inviting the Elements or the Dieties.

I got a good feeling reading that. Thanks for sharing.