Flar's Freyja
November 1st, 2002, 02:44 PM
First, a disclaimer: I received this in a e-mail and it in no way reflects my own opinion, okay? :lol: There are a few things in the article I could respond to, such as Satanists not being considered a religious organization. Actually, now that that has come up I'm really not sure so maybe someone else has an opinion.
Second: Mods, I wasn't sure where to post this, so move it if you see fit.
When I started to read it, I sighed and said "Sheesh, can't we all get along?" and then laughed......scroll down and you'll see what I mean.
Godless in America
Not Everyone Finds Comfort in Faith
By Oliver Libaw
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/atheists021031.html
Oct. 31 — It's time for atheists to show some pride,
says the Infidel Guy.
"I'm really trying to show people that it's OK that
you don't believe," he says.
The Infidel Guy, whose real name is Reginald Finley,
is one of a considerable number of nonbelievers who
feel they are dismissed as an insignificant group on
the fringes of society. "I believed for a long time
that atheists were evil people," says Finley, who
hosts a series of "Infidel Guy" Internet radio shows
about atheism.
Spurred on in part by controversy over the Pledge of
Allegiance, the religious tone of 9/11 remembrance
services, some atheists appear ready to speak out.
This week, avowed atheist Darrell Lambert faces
expulsion from the Boy Scouts for refusing to profess
a belief in God but the 19-year-old Eagle Scout says
he won't lie about his views on religion. On Saturday,
the American Atheists are organizing a "Godless
Americans" march on Washington to draw attention to
the concerns of non-believers.
"There's a high level of activism now," says Ellen
Johnson, the American Atheists' president. "Maybe it
had to do with Sept. 11 … I never saw such activism
and anger from nonbelievers to the way the government
treated them."
A ‘Sept. 11 Effect’
For nonbelievers like Johnson, the aftermath of the
Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks was particularly
troubling. The overtly religious tone of remembrance
services failed to acknowledge that some Americans
were horrified by the attacks, but did not believe in
prayer or looking to God, she says.
Johnson and other atheists stress they understand that
many people sought comfort in religion after 9/11.
They wish people recognized that religion was not the
only way to cope, however.
"It's just a frustration at saying that only through
faith can people come together," says Jeremy Warach, a
38-year-old project manager in New York.
In addition to raising the profile of atheists in
America, the marchers cite a number of hot-button
political subjects, such as teaching creationism in
schools, abortion, stem-cell research, and First
Amendment issues of the separation of church and
state.
"Religion and morality are separate issues," says Ed
Buckner, executive director of the Council for Secular
Humanism, which is participating in the march.
It is tough to shake the image of atheists as a fringe
group, however. The Godless Americans march made
headlines when it agreed to allow some Satanist groups
to participate, on the grounds that they were not
actually religious organizations.
Atheists Minding Their Own Business
To the frustration of activists among their ranks,
most nonbelievers seem content to live their lives
without going to First Amendment rallies or attending
"freethinker" workshops.
"It doesn't really affect me enough in day-to-day life
that you would want to join an organization to try to
combat it," admits Ross Johnson, an Internet software
consultant in Chicago who is a skeptic on religious
matters.
"I'm not here to promote atheism … I don't need to
fight with everybody," agrees Phil Leone, a
35-year-old bank credit manager who lives outside
Philadelphia. Leone says out of deference to his wife,
who is a practicing Catholic, both his children were
baptized.
Many unaffiliated atheists like Pam Sellman cringe at
the combative approach of America's most famous
atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who said she was proud
to be labeled the "most hated woman in America."
In the 1960s, O'Hair successfully challenged the
constitutionality of prayer in public schools, but
alienated many moderates with her inflammatory
rhetoric. She was kidnapped and killed in an extortion
scheme in 1995.
"I think to try to shock people into it is just going
to do what Madalyn did and set everyone against her,"
says Sellman, a graphics designer in Maryland.
Not all atheists have forsaken O'Hair's approach. This
summer, Michael Newdow drew considerable public scorn
for challenging the constitutionality of the words
"under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Sellman says she mostly keeps her opinion on religion
to herself. But it can be awkward when she tells
people she does not believe in God, she says. "People
have actually accosted me at work … and said, 'You
don't believe in Jesus?" she says. "You're looked at
like some kind of nut."
"I think it's hard to be a nonbeliever in America,"
says Michael Shermer, the head of the Skeptics
Society. "We're such a minority."
Five Percent, Say the Experts: But Many Disagree
America is one of the most religious nations in the
developed world, with far more people attending church
and professing their faith than in many European
countries, for example.
Roughly 5 percent of the population consider
themselves nonbelievers, according to numerous polls,
and that number has been relatively steady over recent
decades, says Rodney Stark, a professor of the
sociology of religion at the University of Washington.
"I've looked at polls going back to the 1930s and,
hell, nothing's changed," Stark says.
Nonbelievers tend to think that number is artificially
low, however. The American Atheists believe there are
about 30 million "Godless" Americans.
"People don't always give accurate answers [to surveys
and polls]," says Ed Buckner, of the Council for
Secular Humanism.
Buckner points to a 2001 study by the City University
of New York, which found a drop in religious
identification over the past decade. In 1990, the
report found 90 percent of the adult population
identified with a particular religious group, such as
Catholic or Jewish. In 2001, that figure dropped to 81
percent.
A 2001 ABCNEWS poll found that 13 percent of
respondents said they had no religion.
"I do believe the number of people without religion is
growing slowly," Buckner says.
Likewise, Reginald Finley, the host of the online
"Live With the Infidel Guy," atheist radio show, is
convinced large numbers of nonbelievers keep their
views to themselves. "I get tons of e-mails from
atheists in the closet," he says.
Some experts, such as Stark of the University of
Washington, are skeptical, however. "The thing that's
remarkable about American religion is how durable it
is," says Stark, the sociologist of religion.
"No competent study has ever shown an increase in
atheism in the United States," says Darren Sherkat, a
sociologist at Southern Illinois University and an
avowed atheist himself.
Complicating the question is the fact that there is no
clear line between believers and nonbelievers. Some
people say they are religious, but do not believe in a
God that oversees the fates of human beings. Others
have spiritual doubts and do not belong to an
organized faith, but would not call themselves Godless
or atheist.
"These categories aren't so easy," says Bruce Forbes,
a United Methodist minister who is also a religious
studies professor at Morningside College in Sioux
City, Iowa.
"If you ask [some] people if they are religious, they
aren't," he says, "But if you asked them if they were
spiritual, they'd say yes."
Some Pick Fights, Some Just Shrug
Like many people of faith, atheists vary greatly in
whether and how they express their views, and what
they think of people who disagree with them. Many
admit they simply think religious people are wrong,
and even foolish to maintain their faith.
Paul Kurtz, the head of the Council on Secular
Humanism, wants to promote nonbelief as a positive
alternative world-view. "What we want to argue is the
use of reason," he says, "And that's very radical
now."
Kurtz says he is not anti-religion, but he worries
that the Constitutional separation of church and state
is under attack.
"I think secularism is being eaten away," he says. "We
have a quasi-theocracy developing."
Steve Azadian, a compliance officer at a brokerage
firm in Florida, an atheist since he was 12, says
religion is partly to blame for extremism and
terrorism. "Where is people's common sense? How could
they possibly believe what they believe?"
Other leaders in the nonbeliever community stress they
want their views recognized and accepted as a valid
alternative to religious faith.
"We're not trying to end religion in America or
anything like that," says Michael Shermer, the leader
of the Skeptics Society. "It's just to try to get
people to be rational and open thinkers."
Ed Buckner, executive director of the Council for
Secular Humanism, is equally quick to say he does not
think religion is the source of all humanity's
problems.
"I'm certainly not trying to suggest atheists can't be
dangerous, too," he says. "Joseph Stalin springs to
mind."
Many atheists openly say they hope more people will
one day give up their belief in God, however — a view
which may trouble many religious people.
Can We All Just Get Along?
Some experts think the tension between believers and
nonbelievers can be resolved.
"I think it comes and goes, and it comes and goes,"
says Jennifer Michael Hecht, a history professor at
Nassau Community College in New York, who is writing
two books about the history of doubt.
Part of the problem, she says, is that believers and
nonbelievers often think of atheism as a new, modern
phenomenon. Religious leaders are concerned about a
possible rise in atheism, while nonbelievers are
excited by the possibility.
In fact, atheism has appealed to a small portion of
Western Civilization for millennia, Hecht says, noting
she has found records of religious skeptics dating
back to 600 B.C.
In her view, neither atheism nor religion is likely to
vanquish the other.
"It's been a sort of understood thing that these
things coexisted."
Second: Mods, I wasn't sure where to post this, so move it if you see fit.
When I started to read it, I sighed and said "Sheesh, can't we all get along?" and then laughed......scroll down and you'll see what I mean.
Godless in America
Not Everyone Finds Comfort in Faith
By Oliver Libaw
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/atheists021031.html
Oct. 31 — It's time for atheists to show some pride,
says the Infidel Guy.
"I'm really trying to show people that it's OK that
you don't believe," he says.
The Infidel Guy, whose real name is Reginald Finley,
is one of a considerable number of nonbelievers who
feel they are dismissed as an insignificant group on
the fringes of society. "I believed for a long time
that atheists were evil people," says Finley, who
hosts a series of "Infidel Guy" Internet radio shows
about atheism.
Spurred on in part by controversy over the Pledge of
Allegiance, the religious tone of 9/11 remembrance
services, some atheists appear ready to speak out.
This week, avowed atheist Darrell Lambert faces
expulsion from the Boy Scouts for refusing to profess
a belief in God but the 19-year-old Eagle Scout says
he won't lie about his views on religion. On Saturday,
the American Atheists are organizing a "Godless
Americans" march on Washington to draw attention to
the concerns of non-believers.
"There's a high level of activism now," says Ellen
Johnson, the American Atheists' president. "Maybe it
had to do with Sept. 11 … I never saw such activism
and anger from nonbelievers to the way the government
treated them."
A ‘Sept. 11 Effect’
For nonbelievers like Johnson, the aftermath of the
Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks was particularly
troubling. The overtly religious tone of remembrance
services failed to acknowledge that some Americans
were horrified by the attacks, but did not believe in
prayer or looking to God, she says.
Johnson and other atheists stress they understand that
many people sought comfort in religion after 9/11.
They wish people recognized that religion was not the
only way to cope, however.
"It's just a frustration at saying that only through
faith can people come together," says Jeremy Warach, a
38-year-old project manager in New York.
In addition to raising the profile of atheists in
America, the marchers cite a number of hot-button
political subjects, such as teaching creationism in
schools, abortion, stem-cell research, and First
Amendment issues of the separation of church and
state.
"Religion and morality are separate issues," says Ed
Buckner, executive director of the Council for Secular
Humanism, which is participating in the march.
It is tough to shake the image of atheists as a fringe
group, however. The Godless Americans march made
headlines when it agreed to allow some Satanist groups
to participate, on the grounds that they were not
actually religious organizations.
Atheists Minding Their Own Business
To the frustration of activists among their ranks,
most nonbelievers seem content to live their lives
without going to First Amendment rallies or attending
"freethinker" workshops.
"It doesn't really affect me enough in day-to-day life
that you would want to join an organization to try to
combat it," admits Ross Johnson, an Internet software
consultant in Chicago who is a skeptic on religious
matters.
"I'm not here to promote atheism … I don't need to
fight with everybody," agrees Phil Leone, a
35-year-old bank credit manager who lives outside
Philadelphia. Leone says out of deference to his wife,
who is a practicing Catholic, both his children were
baptized.
Many unaffiliated atheists like Pam Sellman cringe at
the combative approach of America's most famous
atheist, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who said she was proud
to be labeled the "most hated woman in America."
In the 1960s, O'Hair successfully challenged the
constitutionality of prayer in public schools, but
alienated many moderates with her inflammatory
rhetoric. She was kidnapped and killed in an extortion
scheme in 1995.
"I think to try to shock people into it is just going
to do what Madalyn did and set everyone against her,"
says Sellman, a graphics designer in Maryland.
Not all atheists have forsaken O'Hair's approach. This
summer, Michael Newdow drew considerable public scorn
for challenging the constitutionality of the words
"under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Sellman says she mostly keeps her opinion on religion
to herself. But it can be awkward when she tells
people she does not believe in God, she says. "People
have actually accosted me at work … and said, 'You
don't believe in Jesus?" she says. "You're looked at
like some kind of nut."
"I think it's hard to be a nonbeliever in America,"
says Michael Shermer, the head of the Skeptics
Society. "We're such a minority."
Five Percent, Say the Experts: But Many Disagree
America is one of the most religious nations in the
developed world, with far more people attending church
and professing their faith than in many European
countries, for example.
Roughly 5 percent of the population consider
themselves nonbelievers, according to numerous polls,
and that number has been relatively steady over recent
decades, says Rodney Stark, a professor of the
sociology of religion at the University of Washington.
"I've looked at polls going back to the 1930s and,
hell, nothing's changed," Stark says.
Nonbelievers tend to think that number is artificially
low, however. The American Atheists believe there are
about 30 million "Godless" Americans.
"People don't always give accurate answers [to surveys
and polls]," says Ed Buckner, of the Council for
Secular Humanism.
Buckner points to a 2001 study by the City University
of New York, which found a drop in religious
identification over the past decade. In 1990, the
report found 90 percent of the adult population
identified with a particular religious group, such as
Catholic or Jewish. In 2001, that figure dropped to 81
percent.
A 2001 ABCNEWS poll found that 13 percent of
respondents said they had no religion.
"I do believe the number of people without religion is
growing slowly," Buckner says.
Likewise, Reginald Finley, the host of the online
"Live With the Infidel Guy," atheist radio show, is
convinced large numbers of nonbelievers keep their
views to themselves. "I get tons of e-mails from
atheists in the closet," he says.
Some experts, such as Stark of the University of
Washington, are skeptical, however. "The thing that's
remarkable about American religion is how durable it
is," says Stark, the sociologist of religion.
"No competent study has ever shown an increase in
atheism in the United States," says Darren Sherkat, a
sociologist at Southern Illinois University and an
avowed atheist himself.
Complicating the question is the fact that there is no
clear line between believers and nonbelievers. Some
people say they are religious, but do not believe in a
God that oversees the fates of human beings. Others
have spiritual doubts and do not belong to an
organized faith, but would not call themselves Godless
or atheist.
"These categories aren't so easy," says Bruce Forbes,
a United Methodist minister who is also a religious
studies professor at Morningside College in Sioux
City, Iowa.
"If you ask [some] people if they are religious, they
aren't," he says, "But if you asked them if they were
spiritual, they'd say yes."
Some Pick Fights, Some Just Shrug
Like many people of faith, atheists vary greatly in
whether and how they express their views, and what
they think of people who disagree with them. Many
admit they simply think religious people are wrong,
and even foolish to maintain their faith.
Paul Kurtz, the head of the Council on Secular
Humanism, wants to promote nonbelief as a positive
alternative world-view. "What we want to argue is the
use of reason," he says, "And that's very radical
now."
Kurtz says he is not anti-religion, but he worries
that the Constitutional separation of church and state
is under attack.
"I think secularism is being eaten away," he says. "We
have a quasi-theocracy developing."
Steve Azadian, a compliance officer at a brokerage
firm in Florida, an atheist since he was 12, says
religion is partly to blame for extremism and
terrorism. "Where is people's common sense? How could
they possibly believe what they believe?"
Other leaders in the nonbeliever community stress they
want their views recognized and accepted as a valid
alternative to religious faith.
"We're not trying to end religion in America or
anything like that," says Michael Shermer, the leader
of the Skeptics Society. "It's just to try to get
people to be rational and open thinkers."
Ed Buckner, executive director of the Council for
Secular Humanism, is equally quick to say he does not
think religion is the source of all humanity's
problems.
"I'm certainly not trying to suggest atheists can't be
dangerous, too," he says. "Joseph Stalin springs to
mind."
Many atheists openly say they hope more people will
one day give up their belief in God, however — a view
which may trouble many religious people.
Can We All Just Get Along?
Some experts think the tension between believers and
nonbelievers can be resolved.
"I think it comes and goes, and it comes and goes,"
says Jennifer Michael Hecht, a history professor at
Nassau Community College in New York, who is writing
two books about the history of doubt.
Part of the problem, she says, is that believers and
nonbelievers often think of atheism as a new, modern
phenomenon. Religious leaders are concerned about a
possible rise in atheism, while nonbelievers are
excited by the possibility.
In fact, atheism has appealed to a small portion of
Western Civilization for millennia, Hecht says, noting
she has found records of religious skeptics dating
back to 600 B.C.
In her view, neither atheism nor religion is likely to
vanquish the other.
"It's been a sort of understood thing that these
things coexisted."