Have you read The Tibetan Book of the Dead

[Gwion]

What were your impressions?

[Mithrea]

I haven't read it Gwion, but if you have, I'd really like to hear what you think :)

[Gwion]

"Each person's afterdeath experience is entirely dependant upon his or her mental content."

Basically then, the Bardo Thodol describes a distinct sequence of states (bardos) through which the individual passes through between death and rebirth. There are three distinct stages, which are as follows:

(1) The Chikai Bardo (or hChi-kha Bar-do - a number of Tibetan letters are silent) or Intermediate period of the moment of death. This includes the process of dying; and the dissolution of the elements (earth, water, fire, and air) that make up the physical body. During this period one experiences the "Clear Light", one's own innate Buddha-nature. This is therefore a very favourable moment for the attainment of Enlightenment and liberation from the wheel of rebirth.

"The Bardo state wherein all things are like the void and cloudless sky, and the naked, spotless, intellect is like unto a transparent vacuum without circumferance or center. At this moment, know thou thyself, and abide in this state.

(2) The Chonyid Bardo (or Chos-nidd Bar-do) or Intermediate period of visions of deities. This refers to the state where one experiences visions of deities, Heaven and Hell, Judgment, and so on.

(3) The Sidpa Bardo (or Srid-pa'i Bar-do) or Inter-mediate period of rebirth. During this bardo the consciousness descends and chooses a new body to be born into.

My edition was translated by Evans-Wentz, with a psychological commentary by Carl Jung.

[Sitalique]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but thought it would be best to use one existing than starting a whole new one :)

Anyways, I have recently come to acquire two versions of this book and was wondering which is better?

One by Robert A.F. Thurman and the other by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, translations of course.

[Grimr]

It was a alright read.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Well, I haven't read it cover to cover, no. But I've read parts of it, I'm familiar with its contents, and I *have* read the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, which is rather partially a commentary on the Book of the Dead.

Your question, sitalique, on translations... well, I'd prefer the Robert Thurman one, myself. Thurman is a first-rate scholar and a Buddhist himself. No offense to Evans-Wentz, of course. It's just that Western understanding of Tibetan language and religion has made strides in the last several decades.

There's also a translation out, just this year, by an actual Tibetan {Graham Coleman (Editor), Thupten Jinpa (Editor), Gyurme Dorje (Translator)}. It's supposed to be even better than the previous translations. I haven't read it, but my dad's acquired it, so I can ask him. ^_^

On the subject of Bardo, I think I agree. It fits entirely with what I think about karma, what I think about rebirth... all that. I wrote a paper in college (for a "Karma and Rebirth" class) on this subject. I'll quote some excerpts, because that's easier than typing it all out again.
Especially in Tibetan tradition, our continued existence within samsara is caused by ignorance, primarily our ignorant attachment and refusal to accept the impermanence of all reality. Here, karma does play a role, but ignorance and attachment and clinging to permanence are primarily emphasized. Bardos are a series of moments in which a person is more likely to come to the realization of impermanence and release themselves from attachment, i.e. achieving liberation. To put it another way, a bardo is a cusp, where the potential for enlightenment and liberation is especially present. So, if a person practices, that is, meditates on the nature of mind and prepares himself for death, especially, when the opportunity of bardo arises, one can be better equipped to seize the chance at enlightenment.
Dying and death make a particularly powerful bardo because we have all of our life to prepare for it. The following verse from the Tibetan Book of the Dead gives a good insight into the Tibetan view of the “right” way to die.
“Hey! Now when the death-point between [bardo] dawns upon me,
I will give up the preoccupations of the all-desiring mind,
Enter unwavering the experience of the clarity of the precepts,
And transmigrate into the birthless space of inner awareness;
About to lose this created body of flesh and blood,
I will realize it to be impermanent illusion! (Thurman, 115)
This makes sense if you do not view karma as external retribution or as any kind of clinging matter, but rather as the soul’s essential transformation in accordance with one’s actions. Meaning that if I make a conscious choice to steal, and especially if I actually accomplish it, I have chanced the fundamental nature of my soul. Therefore I will have different outcomes to various situations—things will affect and influence me differently—than before I made that decision. If karma has a lot to do with conscious decision, intention, and mind-state, then willfully changing one’s mind-state has the same result as doing so by working through karmic circumstances. It is merely more difficult to achieve and occurs less often, though it is far more expedient. I think it important to recognize the significance of liminal periods... and that is *basically* what a bardo is. If we look at magical and mystical traditions, from all over the globe, we see that the most powerful times are liminal times. Midnight. Twilight. Neither one day nor the other, neither day nor night. Some of the most powerful places are liminal places... Seashores: neither sea nor land, Cemeteries: neither the land of the living nor the land of the dead, etc... Fairie rings, all these sorts of things.

I also think it's incredibly important to recognize the powerful nature of where one's mind is, and how that can effect us.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. ^_^

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[omar]

I have read part of it. The actor Anthony Quinn had the intire book read at his funeral & it took 2 days reading in relays.

[plumedsnake]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but thought it would be best to use one existing than starting a whole new one :)

Anyways, I have recently come to acquire two versions of this book and was wondering which is better?

One by Robert A.F. Thurman and the other by W.Y. Evans-Wentz, translations of course.

To properly appreciate translations one must be conversant in both languages, the original and that into which the text is translated. Not only the language but also the cultures. A colloquialism in one language when translated literally might not make sense or bear the right connotations to another culture.

There is probably no such thing as a better translation.

[plumedsnake]

I think it important to recognize the significance of liminal periods... and that is *basically* what a bardo is. If we look at magical and mystical traditions, from all over the globe, we see that the most powerful times are liminal times. Midnight. Twilight. Neither one day nor the other, neither day nor night. Some of the most powerful places are liminal places... Seashores: neither sea nor land, Cemeteries: neither the land of the living nor the land of the dead, etc... Fairie rings, all these sorts of things.

I also think it's incredibly important to recognize the powerful nature of where one's mind is, and how that can effect us.

Dawa Lhamo

But isn't every moment a liminal time. Isn't now a Bardo? Are we not constantly dying, fading into Yesterdays. Aren't we constantly being reborn? Crossing from past to present.

In that case, every moment is filled with potential for enlightenment. If only we'd realise that all these elemental (or elementated) experiences are in fact filled with buddha nature.