Love Spells

[Rose Sunny Rionach]

Do you think its right to do Love Spells? Most the people I know say its wrong to do Love Spells.. that its the cruelest of spells to make someone love you against their will.

[Jeleia]

Personally I wouldn't do a love spell. If I did, and the desired man did fall in love with me, then I would always wonder if he loved me for me, or if he loved me because of the spell.

[Sequoia]

I don't think it's OK to do love spells. That's manipulation of the worst kind, to me it's as bad as a woman getting pregnant to make the man marry her and "love" her. *shakes her head* If they don't love you for who you are, what makes you think a spell will make their hearts do so? You might end up with them, or you may be forced with them because of the spell, but what a cruel chain it would be, to force someone to love you.

Mayhaps to "strengthen" the love of two people, but only if they BOTH agreed and were aware of it, and I still wouldn't feel right about it.

Meddling with love is bad business. Let love be.

[cherrywind]

I'm with Akasha. I'd prefer to know that the person loved me for me, and not on the basis of a spell. Let's face it, if you have to go that far to make somebody love you, MAYBE you two shouldn't be together in the first place. That's just common sense in my book.

[Pan]

I, too, disagree with love spells. I don't even like to use them to strengthen the love between 2 people.. because then I'd wonder if they really loved each other or if the spell was doing the talking, so to speak.

Just a tidbit from the Lokster.

[Ganga]

I don't think love can ever be forced. What a "love spell" can do is induce an attraction or sexual fascination. That is manipulation, too, so my opinion in this would be, "Really not worth it." Real love is so much deeper.

[shnen]

do love spells to make you fall in love with yourself... :)
only once you have done that will you find love elsewhere...

I think its ok, but not maliciously...and be very careful... you just might not want what you cast afterall...

I prefer love to happen on its own... then it is true love.

[Rævyn Cigány]

I wouldn't do a love spell on an unsuspecting person.... I have had people ask me to do spells ON them for the purpose of finding love, but I don't think that's the same thing. One is ethical, one is not (I think one should know the difference!).

B*B

Rae )O(

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Rose Sunny Rionach
Do you think its right to do Love Spells? Most the people I know say its wrong to do Love Spells.. that its the cruelest of spells to make someone love you against their will.

I couldn't answer the poll because none of the choices fit. While you should never do a love spell to attract a specific person because it not only violates free will and could backfire and make both of your lives miserable........I feel that it's okay to do a working to attract love into your life. Keep in mind that what you get might not be romantic love but could be enough improvement in your relationships with friends and family to satisfy your need until your love comes along.

Yasmine Galenorn has a good love spell for attracting romantic love in her book Embracing the Moon. It takes over a week to complete, if I remember correctly. It involves writing down the qualities that you want in a partner as well as recognizing the qualities that you have to offer someone. It's non-specific as to a person but specific as to what you want and need.

I know someone who did a working in this manner. It took four years for his perfect love to manifest. She was right under his nose the whole time, married to someone else!

[Emaleth]

I think love spells shouldn't be done, even if it's for strenghtening love and even if the both sides agree. Doing a love spell is, as Puma said, a manipulation, making someone do and feel something s/he isn't and doesn't want to.

And if people already love each other, the spell isn't needed, there are more conventional ways to strenghten the relationship.

Blessed Be

[Kaylara]

BAAAAD IDEA. No mater what... Really really bad idea.

[punkymister]

In my books, Love spells are okay, if and only if they don't target another individual and infringe upon their free will.

And thats Punky's "two cents-of-the-day!"

[Flar's Freyja]

:wave: Merry Meet and Welcome to MW, Punky!

[Leviyah]

Okay, this may be spliting straws but...

I think it depends on the love spell. I don't think casting a spell on a particular person is a good idea, but think casting to draw a particular type of person (ie kind, funny, intelligent etc) isn't a bad thing.

[punkymister]

Originally posted by Freyja
:wave: Merry Meet and Welcome to MW, Punky!

Merci beaucoup!

[st0rm]

I dont wanna force anyone to love me, so ill go with no..

[Willow_Raindancer]

OK here's my wisdom that comes from EXPERIENCE!
Long before I knew about any rules
(I had no Elder to guide me) I cast a Love Spell
on this guy I really liked.
OK not a good idea!:rolleyes:
ears twitched that shouldn't be listening LOL!
My spell did work, BUT only AFTER
I'd lost interest in him LOL!:rotfl:

AND you thought the Goddess had no sense of humor:D

[jelly.belly]

I think a spell to attract love in your life is ok, but you shouldn't do a love spell on someone... it's just not right, if you do, you're forcing something that maybe isnt supposed to be...

[Piperbunny]

Big nope to love spells! You can never be quite sure how they are going to turn out and the outcome can be disasterous and people can be hurt not fall in love.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Willow_Raindancer
OK here's my wisdom that comes from EXPERIENCE!
Long before I knew about any rules
(I had no Elder to guide me) I cast a Love Spell
on this guy I really liked.
OK not a good idea!:rolleyes:
ears twitched that shouldn't be listening LOL!
My spell did work, BUT only AFTER
I'd lost interest in him LOL!:rotfl:

AND you thought the Goddess had no sense of humor:D

I coached a cousin through a candle spell once to heal herself from hurt from a relationship. I specifically told her NOT to ask that he come back, etc.......but I'm sure that she did. He did come back and things got worse. Never again.

I have consistently been told that when the goddess feels that you are ready, the right love will come to you. She knew the desires of my heart and I was given many opportunities to grow. Flar came into my life when I least expected it. He is the love I've been looking for all my life, and he has a chronic illness that threatens to take him from me. I would not have been able to deal with this if I hadn't been given opportunities to grow emotionally and spiritually.

[Gwion]

Love is inherently magic anyway. You don't want love that is not real and genuine. I have been accused of putting a love spell on a lover. I took it as a compliment, but I never have. The way I see it, a love spell is trying to alter a person's free will, and therefore borders on black magic, no matter how good the intention. Just look at mythology and fairy tales. Not one I can remember where there was a love spell involved ended happily or the way the magician intended.

[Psyche Ague]

That's not my kind of magic. I can't say that I approve of the manipulation of feelings. But on the other hand, what if you're happier in love? I can't say that I care if someone does a love spell or not. *shrugs*

I'll never do one. I don't really need to. :)

[Chibi-Fallon]

Honestly my boyfriend came around when I stopped all the love spells. :rolleyes: Guess it's one of those "when you least expect it" kinda things or something. I think love is one of those things where you just gotta learn there's not a whole lot you can do to control it and just gotta accept it when it comes. There's some old (well old for me anyway) song about that but I can't think of what it is.

[Aviendha]

I think that if you do a genral spell i.e. "I wish for my true love to come my way." Sort of thing, without picking a spacfic person, then yes...it is okay. But never ask for Joe down the street or Jane around the cornor. You just don't do it. It's hurtfull and dishonest. You don't want someone to pretend to love, besides this person could be a jerk! Who wants that? :(

[Jazzmine]

I completely agree with Freyja on this. You can do a love spell if your looking for qualities in a person and not a certain individual.

[FlamedLilly]

for me I would never do a love spell, it would always make me wonder if they really loved me or was it just the spell??? I hate being lied to and that would be a lie in my eyes.

[Moon Daughter]

i voted yes.
i think love spells are OK, just like any other spells, BUT...it depends on how you do it!
here is an example from my own life: few years back, when i thought this guy was really unfair to my friend by hurting her, i did i spell in which i imposed my own desire to see him in pain.
indeed, he was in pain. but 3 days later, so was i - i fell down the stairs and cracked the bone in my ancle! and that was the day before Beltaine!!!!! i was so mad, but i understood why it happened, and what i did wrong.
i imposed my own will limited by me not understanding that if he deserved it, he'd pay anyways.

since then, every time i do magic, i always ask for something and specify that i would like that ONLY if it does not interfere with the High Order or things, ONLY if the Goddess do not mind it.

this way, i feel safe, i learned not too look at things so subjectively, realizing that there is Universal Justice to take care of things. also, my magic works a lot better.

but back to love spells. they are OK:
- if done in accordance with the will of the Goddess
- if they are NOT enforced, if you are merely asking for love
- if they are not directed towards a specific unsuspecting person

i remember when i first fell in love with the father of my ( unborn yet) child. i was CRAZY about him, in all the ways- platonic, sexual...but he was in a relationship ( for 4 years). he told me that only after i told him how i feel about him. how much i wanted to do something, to make him leave her, and come to me! every night when i lay there, burning with desire for him ( to the point where it seemed that i was hurting myself), wanting to do something! but i didn't- i promiced myself that no magick would be done by me to win him.
we were friends then, and one night, when all of us went to some party, i , slightly buzzed, ended up giving him a back rub. ( nothing else happened). when my hands touched his skin, i couldn't help it. but the only 'spell' that i wispered was that he feels my energy, my love mixed with GREAT desire for him. i left it up to him to respond or not to respond to it.

about a month later, him and his ex were over, and a few weeks later we came together.
afterwards, he told me that he's always been interested in me, and had a strong sexual attraction towards me, only he did know how to act on it.
but after that party ( and my back rub) he knew that he wanted to be with me no matter what.

since then, we dated for about a year, and i left him in January, only to get back together with him this fall. all this time, he claimed, i was the only true love for him. that's when i remembered about that back rub and wondered whether it just happened that he fell in love with me, or whether i somehow still imposed it on him. i gave him another back rub, where i 'set him free', where he was from my will .
a week later, he told me that he wishes to be a father of my children.

so, this is a story about me and my love spells.
i'll never know what exactly was it that i communicated to him that made him stay with me.
i don't know if i imposed my will on him- after all, after i 'set him free' just in case, he stayed and showed even more love for me...

maybe i was just lucky.
or maybe it was supposed to be this way!

[ankhesen Sekhmet]

A person I used to know did a spell to strengthen her relationship with her fiance (they did it together, actually, so they were in agreement).

When things went sour it only served to make the breakup longer and harder.

I don't agree with doing one to ask for someone with the right qualities either, since I feel if you are meant to be with someone at this stage of life you would be. If that person isn't meant to be in your life, then pushing it could have disastrous results. Some things don't happen at a given time for a particular reason, and pushing it can be your undoing.

Pushing things can be disastrous.

I've never done a love spell, though I thought about doing a proposal one once for a couple months. Thank Gods I didn't do it though, since I found a more suitable mate not long after who was interested in growing up and making a life together.

[Eudaimonia]

People say love spells are bad because they are manipulative and particular to a person. Pst... All magic is manipulative.

That isn't really an origional idea. "Wicca Spellcraft for Men."

I don't do love spells, because I find it unessesary.

[LadyTerra]

Attractions and love come naturally. Sometimes we want someone to love us, when we don't know who's coming around the corner to sweep us off our feet. Sometimes we get impatient and are afraid that "he"/"she" won't come along. But love spells are bad, for many reasons already mentioned: the person will be attracted to you against their will, and it could backfire, and that's no fun at all.

So nah, not a good idea. Let love come on it's own; it will.

LadyTerra

[Mareth]

Freyja posted:
I couldn't answer the poll because none of the choices fit. While you should never do a love spell to attract a specific person because it not only violates free will and could backfire and make both of your lives miserable..

I have to agree with Freyja on this one. Performing a love spell with a specific person in mind is not a good idea. It's a violation of the other person's free-will and I know firsthand how badly it can come back and bite the spellcaster on the ass... It took me almost 5 years and at least a dozen "correction" spells after my divorce to get rid permanently of my ex-husband, who was a good man, just not good for me.

......I feel that it's okay to do a working to attract love into your life. Keep in mind that what you get might not be romantic love but could be enough improvement in your relationships with friends and family to satisfy your need until your love comes along.

Again, I agree. Just remember that the love may take an unexpected form. Anyone else ever hear the story about the Witch who described her perfect man and got all the qualities she specified, embodied in a cat, because she forgot to specify "human," as one of the things she wanted in her mate?

Yuletide Blessings,

[ankhesen Sekhmet]

Originally posted by Eudaimonia
People say love spells are bad because they are manipulative and particular to a person. Pst... All magic is manipulative.

Sure, though most magic isn't used to manipulate someone's mind and emotions, which is the crux of the problem. When you play with fire...

[Aine of the Fae]

To do love spells to draw love in general with your self is definitely a good thing. To do love spells to attract one specific person is not.

[Gwion]

I think that it is possible to cast a spell on yourself to make yourself more attractive to the opposite sex. Men and Women both have their pre-date rituals, and grooming is as good a time as any to make magic; the subtle enchantment of perfumes and scents; the colors and texture of the clothes we wear, "the walk," "the look," are all spell ingredients. Then there's attitude, which is about 60% of the whole enchilada.

[Jazzmine]

GOOD ANSWER!!!!

[Stacy]

I wouldn't like for anyone to do a love spell (of ANY! kind) on me.

Therefore, I wouldn't do any kind of love spell on anyone..

Just my opinion

[cosminv]

Love is something natural, a symbiosis between two spirits, it can't be forced by love spells or any other constrains. And a love spell is, i think, against the pagan fundamental principle of making no harm. By forcing somebody to love you harm he's spirit.
That's my opinion and i could be wrong :)

[Iris]

Oh geez...I did one of those, when I first became interested in Paganism - I was 14 and very irresponsible *rolls her eyes* I would never, NEVER do it again! Some things have to be learned the hard way and suffice it to say, I learned my lesson.

BY THE WAY - I absolutely do NOT mean to imply that 14 year olds are irresponsible...just that I was, at that age. So please don't anyone misinterpret this and be offended!

Hmm...I guess I would do a spell to strengthen the love of two people, but only if they were both fully aware of it and consented.

[mol]

Originally posted by Rose Sunny Rionach

Do you think its right to do Love Spells? Most the people I know say its wrong to do Love Spells.. that its the cruelest of spells to make someone love you against their will.

Love IS in and of itself...Magick. It is Magick of the most natural kind. Casting a love spell is UNnatural. I see that a few folks have mentioned "if I cast a love spell, how would I know if the person is really in love with ME and its not just the spell."

Well, it WAS the spell! And thats the big point I am trying to make. Spells to attract love are doing so in an UNnatural way, so that makes the love itself UNnatural.

Does it make it wrong? Well, thats in the eye of the beholder. ;)

[Derry]

Hope I don't step on any toes here...but I don't think I would ever do a love spell. My husband is my soul mate and I know he is attracted to me for true love. We've been married for 11 years and are high school sweethearts. True devoted love is a beautiful thing. I think love spells are wrong because you should never control someone elses heart. Now, if you do a spell for "wisdom in finding the right person" that is ok to me. Also, beware what you ask for...you just may get it.

:) Derry

[Kaylana]

Unless your doing the spell on yourself it is wrong to do a love spell. Spells cannot be down to manipulate another person. How would you feel if a someone put some kind of spell on u? U might not mind it but if you were another religion u might. Remember harm none.

[Phoenix Blue]

Remember harm none.

[Nitpick mode]
I would rather remember the eight word version of the rede, given that I haven't memorized the full poetic version and given that there is no two-word version.
[/Nitpick mode]

[Theres]

well i jumped to the end of the thread to post my reply, only to find that mol beat me to it!

to me, true love is the greatest magick that exists, and any spell that trys to simulate this magick can only pale in comparison.
however, i must add that i feel this way about many 'spells'. almost any magick you can desire is already abundant in nature. we only have to find a way to uncover it.

as far as the rede, the only one i recognize is the eight word version. when eight simple words can say SO much, why water it down with bad, self-indulgent poetry?
K I S S

[Sugar & Spice]

I do not think it would be a good idea.
In what reading I have come across, the people are complaining or asking for help...
Have you ever heard of anyone who after doing such have been together for 30/40 years?

[KaliGiri5]

I do love spells..
I know many who are Wiccan see it as a negative.
but as a left handed one..
I want to say..
every time 2 people meet..
it's an illusion from the start..
nobody is what they seem to portray.
each uses whatever "charm" they have to attract the opposite sex.
it can be makeup..your hairstyle..how you dress..the car he drives...so on
like bait.
once in a relationship..
both do things to try to stay together..to bind together as one

when it is wrong..
is when you hold onto a person who doesn't wish to be with you.
in that case..you must let go
with or without magick

[Lavender]

Good point, Kaligiri.

[Azul]

spells that get someone to notice you more, is ok with me... like so that a certain person will see you more, but not fall in love with you. as long as the person falls in love with you by their own choice, then i think its ok

[Zander770]

granted . . . they're "dangerous" andcan "blow-up in your face," but: i did THREE "tarot love spells" (e.g., kraig's new book tarot & magic) just last WEEK (and? to Great Success)!

but i also did a divination, first; recorded everything, before & after; and performed the rite as "correctly" and as "emotionally" as i could, too, so . . .

[Ravens_Tears]

I've always thought that casting a "love spell" is not a positive or beneficial act. I have never done one for myself and have never done them for anyone else. I truely believe that it is an emotion and life situation that is best left to nature.

[moonmorgan]

It depends...

I definitely see something wrong with doing a spell to attract a certain person...:heartthro


...but doing a general spell to attract love is fine.:loveduv:

:hearteyes

[Vampirekat16]

i think it is ok to do love spell as long as it is not toward just 1 person but to be used to attract the right person to you

[RubyRose]

I'm not sure, recently I've thought about doing something similar, to keep me and my fiancee together, but then that's just tempting fate, what's meant to be, will be ...

[Kaylara]

Originally posted by Phoenix_Blue

[Nitpick mode]
I would rather remember the eight word version of the rede, given that I haven't memorized the full poetic version and given that there is no two-word version.
[/Nitpick mode]

I prefer the full rede...

Bide ye the Wicca laws ye must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.

Ye must live and let live, fairly take and fairly give.

Cast the circle thrice about, to keep unwelcome spirits out.

To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be spoken in rhyme.

Soft of eye and light of touch, speak ye little and listen much.

Deosil go by waxing moon, chanting out the Wiccan runes.

Widdershins go by waning moon, chanting out the baneful tune.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to her times two.

When the moon rides at her peak, then the heart's desire seek.

Heed the North wind's mighty gale; lock the door and trim the sail.

When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss thee on the mouth.

When the Moor wind blows from the West, departed spirits have no rest.

When the wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.

Nine woods in the cauldron go, burn them quick and burn them slow.

Elder be the Lady's tree, burn it not or cursed ye'll be.

When the wheel begins to turn. let the Beltane fires burn.

When the wheel has turned to Yule, light the log and the Horned One Rules.

Heed ye flower, bush and tree, by the Lady, Blessed Be.

Where the rippling waters go, cast a stone, the truth to know.

When ye have and hold a need, harken not to others' greed.

With a fool no seasons spend, or be counted as his friend.

Merry meet and merry part, bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Mind the Threefold Law ye should, three times bad and three times good.

When misfortune is enow, wear the blue star on thy brow.

True in love ye must ever be, lest thy love be false to thee.

These words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: An ye harm none, do what ye will.

[Phoenix Blue]

Show-off. :p

[Ravens_Tears]

I think it's beautiful!:)

[The High Queen of Faerie]

It depends on how we're defining 'love spell.' If a certain someone is named, I don't agree with that, because that's bending what someone else does to your will. But what I've done in the past, when I used to be really shy, was do a spell that asked that if someone liked me, they should speak up about it, or at least make it known. It worked out pretty well, and I wasn't asking anyone who didn't have feelings for me to suddenly like me or whatever. I was a wee lass, hah, but that was my solution to the dilemma of 'love spells'.

[Phoenix Element]

That's a sticky area. Personally, I'm not sure that even a spell can make someone love someone else against their will. A spell could find ways to strengthen a connection that is already there. I don't think it's a bad thing to slightly strengthen an existing bond, and I think if there was no bond to begin with, the "love spell" would be impotent.

[Morrigan_Wolfwind]

I personally think love spells are silly. You shouldn't have to use magic to make someone love you--and there is the key word, MAKE. Even if they did have feelings for you, it wouldn't be the same when they finally asked you out. You would be happy, yes, but you probably would have expected it because you did the spell. You wouldn't think it was because they were hiding their feelings, or mustering the courage to do something.

If you just need a bit of magickal help to strengthen your love with another person, that's fine with me as long as you don't unintentionally make things worse.

[Meadhbh]

I think its up to each person to make up their own mind about something like that. I myself won't simply because I won't feel right playing a game with some one I cared enough to consider something like for. If they weren't meant to love then thats that even if it hurts, it won't be right playing wth their feelings like that.

[Arion]

Every act of magic is manipulation. Heck, breathing is manipulation. Walking manipulates the ground beneathe you. Things have to be manipulated otherwise everything would stagnate. A love spell is no different than any toher kind. I honestly don't know if manipulating love is a good idea, it might be, it might not be, I don't know. I don't think you can make someone love you against their will, I just don't think it's possible to be able to control someone's thoughts and feelings. I agree with this:

I don't think love can ever be forced. What a "love spell" can do is induce an attraction or sexual fascination.
The only thing that comes to mind about what could go wrong is that you might be insecure about whether or not what you are doing is right. These doubts could interfere with the state of mind you need to focus on your goal, and your spell would not work. If you want to do a love spell, be confident about what you want and what you are doing, and you'll be fine.

[gurlygurl2004]

I don't see a problem to cast a spell to find love, but I've been taught never to do a love spell on someone just to make them love you. There's a thread on here about the love spell taboo and how other paths don't say you can't cast love spells on people like Wicca dictates.

[Stormwt]

I think its dangerous. What if u don't want it after all and cant undo it. How will that person move on? What if you want to and they won't let you.

Jealous stalkers can be VERY dangerous

[Arion]

I think its dangerous. What if u don't want it after all and cant undo it. How will that person move on? What if you want to and they won't let you.

Jealous stalkers can be VERY dangerous
I think it's kind of arrogant to think you can make a person want you that badly with a silly little spell. A spell cannot control another person's will, it will just enhance the probability in your favour. Cast a spell for love, a person who could love you might become attracted to you. If it is not probable that the person could love you without the spell, than it won't have any affect. All a spell will do is increase the loving energy around you, attracting the love you want. If that love is not available, nothing will happen. Sometimes it might attract the stalker type, but it's not something you have control over. Chances are, that person might have stalked you anyway and the spell just gave it a boost. Not every spell is likely to do that. Luckily those kind of people arent as common as the media would lead us to believe.

[Kylie]

mmm.

Not a spell to make a specific person love you.

But spells to bring love are alright.

[arianrhods_daughter]

I agree with purplepanther I think theres a lot of arrogance surround the success of love spells.

I personally have nothing against trying to draw positive loving energies into your life through ritual work, trying to force someone to love you through ritual workings I think is stupid, a waste of energy and a perfect way to lose any respect you may have held in the eyes of your respective deities and guardians

Each to their own though

[Feroxyhite]

trying to force someone to love you through ritual workings I think is stupid, a waste of energy and a perfect way to lose any respect you may have held in the eyes of your respective deities and guardians


On this note I really think it depends on the deities. In my situation, I probably would. Apollo is definitely known for his efforts trying to sleep with many a man and woman and at their refusal turned them into plants generally. :P Even so though, he never forced them to love him. Loki on the other hand, probably wouldn't be averse to that approach, he's a god of trickery, shapeshifting, manipulation, and general chaos. So it all depends on whether I want to screw one of my guardians over because the other wouldn't mind it, and that depends on who I am at the given moment.

[Crystal_Raye]

Casting spells to make someone love you is just a plain dumb idea. However, spells or rituals asking [insert deity name here] to bring your true love to you is okay.

[Shield_Wolf]

I think casting a love spell to make some one fall in love with you is wrong, becasue you're forcing some one to do something aginist there WILL. But I think if two people are together and love each other, but are have some problem, if they both want to do a love spell to bring them closer to each other, that's okay.

[Stormwt]

I think it's kind of arrogant to think you can make a person want you that badly with a silly little spell. A spell cannot control another person's will, it will just enhance the probability in your favour. Cast a spell for love, a person who could love you might become attracted to you. If it is not probable that the person could love you without the spell, than it won't have any affect. All a spell will do is increase the loving energy around you, attracting the love you want. If that love is not available, nothing will happen. Sometimes it might attract the stalker type, but it's not something you have control over. Chances are, that person might have stalked you anyway and the spell just gave it a boost. Not every spell is likely to do that. Luckily those kind of people arent as common as the media would lead us to believe.



I agree with purplepanther I think theres a lot of arrogance surround the success of love spells.

I personally have nothing against trying to draw positive loving energies into your life through ritual work, trying to force someone to love you through ritual workings I think is stupid, a waste of energy and a perfect way to lose any respect you may have held in the eyes of your respective deities and guardians

Each to their own though

I don't mean it as arrogance. I just think its foolish to go ahead and do something like that without thinking of ALL possible outcomes. Its ok to be optimistic and think "well this probably won't happen." But you never know how strongly that person will be affected.

I was talking about a directing those energies at a specific person.
Asking for love to come in to your life in general is never a problem. Trying to make somebody love you is.

SWT


Edit: I hope that you weren't calling me arrogant? If so it would be very rude of you based on one short post and a difference in opinion!!!

[Amythyst]

Why not?

After all, all magic is manipulative.

Your spell is successful but you change your mind and decide this wasn't the person you want after all?...personally, I've never done a spell yet that I couldn't reverse, but if a reversal isn't successful for you, you can always do a banishing spell.

We manipulate people in the mundane world all the time-- whether in love, or business, or other relationships. As far as I'm concerned, we witches just have a little advantage in this area that most people don't have.

Some may think this borders on "Black Magic"...The world is neither black nor white, only shades of gray.

[arianrhods_daughter]

No it was a general statement about people assuming because they say "I command you to love me" that it will work. If I was calling you arrogant I would have said it directly

People need to consider all the possibilities of everything they do, ritual work is no different, we were just highlighting that a lot of people seem to think they have more influence than what they probably have and to me, that in itself is a problem.

If people want to do love spells go ahead I can't stop them,but no I don't think its right to direct energies at someone with the intent of twisting their free will whether or not it works, which is why I do not perform love spells

And for further clarification no this isnt directed at you, like my previous post its a general statement

[Stormwt]

And for further clarification no this isnt directed at you, like my previous post its a general statement

lol! I wouldn't have thought that was directed at me. After all - I agree with you, they shouldn't be done/aimed at a specific person!

x all

[arianrhods_daughter]

:lol: Id share a "love spell" my non religious partner conjoured up but I fear its too rude to share on the forums :D and much to his dismay no it didnt work lol

[The Lady]

A love spell that brings love into your life is right; its like praying for a love to come into your life. I believe this to still be a natural kind of love. It is still left to the Universe, Goddesses/Gods, Nature, whatever. I believe it is just a way to put out a request for something. Letting them know that you are open to the possibility.

Casting a love spell to have a specific person fall in love with you is wrong. It is a false love, unnatural.

[Arion]

Why not?

After all, all magic is manipulative.

Your spell is successful but you change your mind and decide this wasn't the person you want after all?...personally, I've never done a spell yet that I couldn't reverse, but if a reversal isn't successful for you, you can always do a banishing spell.

We manipulate people in the mundane world all the time-- whether in love, or business, or other relationships. As far as I'm concerned, we witches just have a little advantage in this area that most people don't have.

Some may think this borders on "Black Magic"...The world is neither black nor white, only shades of gray.
agreed. well said, Amythyst:)

[FirePixie]

No I don't think it is okay to do love spells.

[coeur]

The question 'is it okay' is too broad. Is it okay for me? I suppose if I wanted to. But is it okay for others? Well it's not really my place to tell others what they should or should not do. It doesn't violate my own moral values though I think it defeats the point.

[RunningRiot]

I'm all for love spells. Screw karma.

And if one got casted on me? I'd enjoy the ride.

[arianrhods_daughter]

*wiggles her finger at LiaWifeMother* :lol: jks

[Arion]

I'm all for love spells. Screw karma.

And if one got casted on me? I'd enjoy the ride.
woohoo!! good times. lol

[arianrhods_daughter]

:lol: :D

[telecino]

A guy contacted me a few years ago. He wanted me to do a love spell, or a ritual that would manifest a girlfriend for him.

" Ok, i said. Let's get into,... but first, maybe we should concider showing you how to perform the ritual, so you could do it yourself... it would me much more powerful. "

We went on, and i showed him a "Love ritual". after 2 weeks of intense application, he burst out in cries... he felt "Love", for the first time of his life, he felt "Love". I showed him a love ritual allright, a ritual to feel love for one-self.

Once he was flowing with self-love, i simply told him to "Smile and walk with your head straight. Don't over-do it like an idiot, but smile and be happy". Instantly, he became a girl magnet on his own. A man who emits love, and smiles of true happiness will be much more attractive for a woman.

He wasn't too long he had a girlfriend. That was 2 year ago. He's getting maries next september.

[Silent]

I said yes....but in that I mean I think it is ok to do love spell that atract real love or to make someone see what they really want and love even if the result is not in caster favor. But to do a spell to make someone want and love u then NO. I think that is very much wrong.

[Gryphonmusic]

If we are talking spells to just draw two people who are compatable together, then I don't see what the problem would be. If you are changing someone's feelings, forcing them to feel something they don't, then yes. Coercion is wrong in every form.

[Cresentarm]

I would never want to force someone I love to have feelings for me if none existed, for the very reason that I did love that person and would never want to harm them.Sometimes love is about NOT having or GETTING, but just letting that loved one be. No matter how much it hurts.
I hope that didn't sound preachy._inabox_

[Crysiira]

Wow, this is such a touchy subject. Personally, "Love Spell" is too broad, because the spectrum of love is so amazingly wide. I have battled depression for most of my life, and it often causes rifts between my lover and I, and so I will cast a spell to help me banish my depression and come to realize that I am a person of worth and loving myself is not a crime. I guess as an artist, self-hatred is promoted in my world, but I always take it too far, so self-love through Paganism is important to me. That's a love spell that is not only OK to cast, but I really recommend it. It helps bring my lover and I back together. Does that make it a love spell on him? No, really not, because he sees that I'm making an effort to change myself for the better and any anger he has is shattered.
On the other hand, I have a friend who is in a low patch of love. She already does have self-love and self-confidence, but that is what sometimes gets her in trouble; she has the confidence to speak her mind and in our area that scares a lot of men. If it scares them, she doesn't want them anyway, so that's a good thing. But where does it leave her? Going home alone and saddened by the prospects facing her. I truly think that in her case it is OK to do a love spell- that is, something to attract a person IN GENERAL, not one specific person, who will be accepting of her ways and love her for the person she is. Maybe a better phrasing of that is to cast a love spell on herself that makes her see which people would be more compatible for her. And of course, location location location; something to bring a true love into her area.
Love can be so many things, but it should never be forced. Sometimes love needs a tiny push in the right direction, but even though I agree that magick is neither black nor white but all shades of gray, we still strive to be the best we can in accordance with the Goddess' will, and that means harming none - and harm is defined as interfering with one's free will. Therefore, in my opinion, though a general love spell is more than OK, anything more specific is bordering on bad bad Karma.

[MankyCat]

By the definition that is presented (making someone in particular love you)...

No, I would not do a love spell. Heck, I wouldn't do a love spell anyways. I've tried them... they never work out the way you expect. Most things don't, but love can be more devastating. Trust me.

I've casted to find love (well... more like to open my eyes to those who wish for my love) and I almost casted a spell to make me love someone else because I felt so guilty that I didn't feel as much as he did (though I found out that what he felt was not really love and a lot of what he presented was an act).

I avoid love spells. They are too much trouble for what you get, which is far from what you really want. Love will come on it's own. Love yourself enough, and the rest will fall into place. And besides what does love bring anyways? Anything an S.O. would bring you can and probably already have. Fullfillment is deeper than that.

As for specific people... the fantasy life we build around that person is usually far from the truth. We build that person up and fill in the gaps of what we don't know with attributes we would like for them to have. We are usual way off the mark. And the person that has these attributes might be overlooked because we are so busy focusing on the wrong person. (Yup, been there. And what a lost possibility that was, though I doubt that would have worked either. heh heh)

So I voted no, because of the definition given in the original post.

[Les_Nubian]

I just want to add in my EXTREMELY late response here...I think most certainly that "general" love spells are OK. That is, love spells that call out to the Universe to bring your soulmate to you, or just a lover...you know, anyone in general, whoever this person for you is supposed to be...to draw them towards you.

But to try and force someone else to love you is kind of wrong, IMO. Especially if they're already in a relationship. :/

[fangedeshana]

I don't really thing it "manipulation of the worst kind"... and my answer totally depends what kind os "love spell" you do. Loves spells can be targeted on the self or no one in particular - not just a specific person you want to fall in love with you.

I also think any love spell that isnt to help with self love is redundant. If it's to strengthen a love that is already there - you could try actually using your mouth and talking... or a communication spell to help the talking come into play. No need to do anything else. If it's meant to work out, it's meant to work out.

If not.. take the lessons you've learnt from that person and relationship, honor them and move on.

EDIT: I haven't answered the poll... I don't thin any option is close enough to what I've said here.

[mtpathy]

you cant EVER truly make anyone do anything that they themselves don't
want to do,you can however give them a choice,and dangle a "carrot" in
the road of the path you wish them to take.
there is,and there will always be choice,but because of choice theres also
indulgence,gluttony,insecurities,and fears,the things that aren't these are
what can be held as the carrot to lead others to these things of incorrect
choice.
but then many lead themselves down there own unforseen paths by dangling
that carrot of "choice",in there own faces.
isn't life grand :)

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

I would be very upset if I found that someone that I was in love with had put a love spell on me, with the intent of making me love them without my knowledge or consent. I support the idea of mutual love spells. I support the idea of find-a-lover spells (I do them occasionally, and they never work for me, which annoys me no end).
I think maybe I should work on a self-love spell....the emotional kind of self-love, not the kind that makes the baby Jesus cry...

[amunakht]

I think it's completely alright unless if an ugly person does a spell to get a better looking person than themselves. Then that sickens me but otherwise its perfectly ok. Thats my opinion.

If you want things done you got to be a left-hander and forget about those moralist teachings.

[debnmike]

I think it's completely alright unless if an ugly person does a spell to get a better looking person than themselves. Then that sickens me but otherwise its perfectly ok. Thats my opinion.

If you want things done you got to be a left-hander and forget about those moralist teachings.

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Who are you to decide who's ugly and who's not?

[Sage Rainsong]

To me cast a love spell on a specific person, to get them to love you, is just plain sad and pathetic, not to mention unethical. I don't see anything wrong with doing a love spell to bring an unknown person into their lives though.

[David19]

To me cast a love spell on a specific person, to get them to love you, is just plain sad and pathetic, not to mention unethical. I don't see anything wrong with doing a love spell to bring an unknown person into their lives though.

I agree with you, if someone, even if there the most attractive person in the world, has to do a spell to make someone 'love' them, then there's something wrong with them, mentally probably.

Like you, i think it's ok to do a spell to bring your soulmate or whatever into your life, although i don't see anything wrong with lust spells (like i don't see anything wrong with doing a spell to get attention in a club and get laid).

[David19]

I think it's completely alright unless if an ugly person does a spell to get a better looking person than themselves. Then that sickens me but otherwise its perfectly ok. Thats my opinion.

If you want things done you got to be a left-hander and forget about those moralist teachings.

Even though i like most Left Hand paths sayings and teachings, i don't agree with that, who's to say what's ugly or attractive, some people can say obese people are unattractive, but there's people out there who find them attractive.

Also, not all moral teachings need to be 'forgotten' (e.g. if you had the chance to gain unlimited power, but you had to kill a kid, could you do it?), there are some moral things that need to be remembed and that are wrong (sex with kids is wrong, pediphile's are evil, Hitler, Nazi's and anti-Semite's are evil, and homophobe's are evil, etc, so morals have a place in everyone, not every single moral but there's a few core things that make someone human).

[amunakht]

Like you, i think it's ok to do a spell to bring your soulmate or whatever into your life, although i don't see anything wrong with lust spells (like i don't see anything wrong with doing a spell to get attention in a club and get laid).

Thats like the kind of thing I meant. The girl (guy for you) I would have doing such a thing would be just for fun. Not a keeper girl.


Also, not all moral teachings need to be 'forgotten' (e.g. if you had the chance to gain unlimited power, but you had to kill a kid, could you do it?)

If in order to become a god I had to kill a kid then that would be a justifiable reason. I wouldn't like it but thats just the way it's got to be, if something like that ever happened. If I were to become a god I could revive him anyway.

[WiccanGoddess]

I do not think it is okay to do a love spell, as it is manipulation of a person's mind. Which I see as wrong and unjustifiable.

[sybba_leigh]

whenever the subject of love spells comes up, i always think of nessarose in 'wicked...' she's so desperate for this guy to love her and not someone else that she says "you're going to lose your heart to me i tell you, if i have to... i have to... magic spell you!"

some people are just desperate and feel love spells are the only way to get the 'perfect' person for them...

i personally wouldn't do a love spell on a particular person, but maybe its okay to do a spell to attract new love to yourself--- whoever's right for you at that time will find you.

[ladymousewitch]

I voted "I don't know " being because there was not an answer I could really pick.. I believe that if you do a love spells that helps you find your true love not push some one into loving you.. I think thats ok... I also think that you shouldn't strengthen it because you never know if it might end.

[SilverSeraphim]

I support the idea of find-a-lover spells (I do them occasionally, and they never work for me, which annoys me no end).
...

Maybe you're not giving them enough time to work. Or you missed who it sent you. :nyah:

[David19]

Thats like the kind of thing I meant. The girl (guy for you) I would have doing such a thing would be just for fun. Not a keeper girl.

If in order to become a god I had to kill a kid then that would be a justifiable reason. I wouldn't like it but thats just the way it's got to be, if something like that ever happened. If I were to become a god I could revive him anyway.

I guess if you could just revive him then it might not be such a 'big' deal, and there were cultures were it was seen as an honour to be sacrificed (for example, Aztec kids could be sacrificed or give blood to their god, but they weren't forced, it was seen as an honour, and i think they were rewarded or something by the god in question).

[WiccanGoddess]

How can one justify a love spell? It bends the mind of the person the spell is intended. It manipulates their mind, fogging their abilities. Is that not illogical and wrong, not just in Wicca and Pagan terms, but in common sense?

I had a love spell performed on me, and the minute my mind cleared, I vowed never to speak to the spell's owner. He manipulated me into 'loving' him. That is immoral.

[smckim]

How can one justify a love spell? It bends the mind of the person the spell is intended. It manipulates their mind, fogging their abilities. Is that not illogical and wrong, not just in Wicca and Pagan terms, but in common sense?

I had a love spell performed on me, and the minute my mind cleared, I vowed never to speak to the spell's owner. He manipulated me into 'loving' him. That is immoral.
Immoral, and PATHETIC!!

[Crystal_Raye]

Depends on the type of love spell. If you do a "make so-and-so love me" spell then it tampers with free will and it thus wrong. However, if you do a "help me find my true love" spell or something that isn't geared toward a specific person and it aimed at finding whoever it is that is meant for you then that type of spell is okay. Just my opinions.

[Fechín Taliba Rune]

After lots of thinking, I can finally think of at least one situation in which a love spell is appropriate:

Whether we like to admit it or not, even in the US a lot of people get married for reasons of necessity rather than reasons of the heart. I think that if two people are stuck in a 'marriage of convenience' so to speak, or an arranged marriage, and want to try to make it a good one by bringing love into the mix, then it's not such a bad idea. If both people agree to it, it isn't manipulation, and if they both actually want to reach for it, it just might stick even after the original spell wears off.

[AquaSilverMoon]

I'm new so I don't really have an official opinion yet but i'm a leo and leos constantly need love......and it has to be real love but I see no problem in strengthning an already going relationship

[asheir]

I don't think Love Spells are wrong... Sometimes people need a little nudge. It is a little selfish though, but it's not like the "bespelled" one doesn't get any benefits out of it...

[exodustruth]

I don't think that it is wrong to cast a love spell. In the end you can't make someone love you they have to choose too. I've had the best luck with love spells (and also the worst)...It all depends. If your looking for a hotty don't cast a love spell because what you get might not be what you want...and that's the mark of lust not love. My most sucessful spells i found came when i was most lonely and did not care who it was that loved me as long as i found the love that i was seeking. Othertimes i casted spells simply to meet a hotty and i eventually ended up losing interest...

[ravenhecate999]

what happened to "harm none"? controlling a persons free will, defenetley qualifys as harm...doing a spell to help yourself find love is ok...

[David19]

what happened to "harm none"? controlling a persons free will, defenetley qualifys as harm...doing a spell to help yourself find love is ok...

Although the harm none would only apply if you're a Wiccan, i'm not saying i'd bend another persons free will, 'cause as i've read, it would cloud that persons judgement, you may end up with them, but it wouldn't really be them, if that makes any sense.

[River]

I don't believe in them.
I just don't think it would work.
O_o

Never had a reason to use one either.
I suggest some nice makeup.

[Arion]

Love spells are tricky business... hehe. There are so many variables with them that could go wrong. They are good to induce an attraction, or draw a person into your life who you could love, but so many other things could go wrong. lol:hahugh: . You might end up triggering a relationship with a married person, or meet someone online who lives halfway across the planet. There is no guarantee that the circumstances of the relationship will actually be good, it may attract a good person for you, but it might not work out because the circumstances suck.

I've cast a fair amount, mostly because I'm a gay teenager in the suburbs who has trouble meeting other gay people, so I cast spells hoping they improve my social life. It's worked once or twice, but nothing special has really come out of the results. Like I said, there is a lot of room for error. In my case, it might be better to wait until I have the opportunity to go out to places where I can meet people and let things happen naturally.

I said this earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat it anyway. I do not think love spells can affect how the other person feels about you, the spell just increases your chances of meeting someone you could fall in love with even without the spell. It just induces the attraction or draws the right kind of person to you.

[WiccanGoddess]

Okay, so...I am against love spells...yet, I'm looking to put one into use. Someone, smack me.

[Arion]

Okay, so...I am against love spells...yet, I'm looking to put one into use. Someone, smack me.

*smack*

You've become as desperate as me, then? :lol:

[WiccanGoddess]

*smack*

You've become as desperate as me, then? :lol:

I've gathered forth rose stems, apples, and rose petals....nah, I'm not desperate a'tall. ;)

[Arion]

I've gathered forth rose stems, apples, and rose petals....nah, I'm not desperate a'tall. ;)

Don't forget red candles, they're a must-have ;)

[ModernKnight]

Looking at ancient spellbooks, most of them seem to be either love spells or curses.

I enacted a love spell the day I married my wife. It was with her consent, though. :)

[WiccanGoddess]

Don't forget red candles, they're a must-have ;)

Not neccessarily. I work sans candle.

[Silverfire Darkmoon]

....what are you going to do with the rose stems? Find a Morticia Addams? ^^ Not that that would be a bad thing...
And, of course, one needs the terrible rhymes and other romantic bric-a-brac.

[A.P.Roberts]

I'm not sure what I think about love spells.... I suppose it depends on how you look at them... they could be good if you've been having a hard time of life and want to be able to see the love that is already all around you but you though you had lost.... but they could be bad if you want to use them to manipulate people..... I don't know..... guess it all depends on the person and the circumstances.... but as of now I have not nor do I plan to do any love spells in the near future.....

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

If I can get what I want, easy, ill take it.

[Lajmar]

Personally I have no problem with "love " magic as long as the caster is prepared to handle the consequences, but mine is a path in which the caster themselves determines the ethics to follow. People make bad choices in love with or without magic . Some arguments I'v heard say the target can become obsessed with you, you can become obsessed with them through backfire, etc. This however, again, happens all the time with or without the involvement of magic. In my experience however, love magic is more often lust magic (which can and many times does lead to love)which can be useful to ignite a spark or fan one already existing or in some cases bind a lover to you through desire, as love itself seems to be one of those uncontrollable forces . Of course what I am talking about is magic focused at a specific individuals, however I have known magic to bring actual love when it is non-specifically focused, merely the type to call someone special and unknown to the caster.

[Denikke]

I've never been one for rituals and spells. Mostly because I don't have the tools I feel I need and because my grandmother (who I live with) is uncomfortable with the whole idea of witchcraft.
Recently though, I wrote my first spell (recently being less than a week ago). I feel it would fall under the heading of *love spell*. I didn't purposely go out to write a love spell. Or any spell at all really. It just came to me and I felt this intense need to write it down. I feel the Goddess sent it to me and I have every intention on putting it to use in the very near future.
BUT. The spell that I just wrote has NOTHING to do with any other person. It has nothing to do with bringing a love to me (specified or not) and it has nothing to do with making a specific person love me.
The spell that I wrote is, I believe, the God and Goddess's way of telling me something. The specifics of the spell are to allow myself to open up and be receptive to love when it comes into my life. I've always had a problem opening up and allowing myself to be loved, and I think this is the God's and Goddess's way of telling me that soon someone special will come into my life, and to have things work, I need to be receptive and not let my baggage hold me back. The spell will only be a reaffirmation of this.

Love spells in general I feel are unneccessary. Love will find me when my Path dictates that the time is right. Any spell that used manipulation though, I feel as wrong. This can include what a lot of people view as even the most beneficial of magick. Even a healing spell, when done without the knowledge, permission, or participation of the other person involved can be looked at as manipulative and wrong.
My opinion: keep the spells personal. Only use spells that affect your own life. Leave all other people out of it unless they specifically ask for it, and when/if they do, make sure they understand ALL the consequences and are willing to take responsibilty for their own actions.
Just my 0.02$

Denikke

[love]

I thought about doing a love spell once , I had a warlock friend I talked to about it, but I decided not to he said it can back fire on you and the person can become violent and controling , strange enough he turned out that way anyhow.

[Windsmith]

I did a love spell on/for myself once. It was a fairly generic spell to help me figure out what I wanted in a partner, and to help me be most myself so that I would be fully open to love when it arrived in my life. It helped; I spent less time obsessing about finding someone knowing that the spell was doing its work in the background. That probably made me come across as less desperate to prospective girlfriends. It was like getting an oil change; I'm a better driver when I know my car is running well and I don't have to waste energy worrying about whether or not it's going to get me from Point A to Point B.

I don't like more specific spells. I have very particular beliefs about how magic works. I believe that the main effect of a spell is on the caster. If I cast a spell to "Make Mary fall in love with me," it's not going to make Mary suddenly and inexplicably fall madly in love with me. But it is going to me act differently around her, becoming more and more the person I think she wants me to be in order to be interested in me, and less and less the person I really am. So, yes, free will is being tampered with - not Mary's, which doesn't falter a whit, but mine, which I surrender to a fantasy of what it would be like to be in a relationship with Mary.

And maybe I get Mary and then find out that being in a relationship with her sucks. Or maybe I don't get Mary, and get depressed, and totally miss the fact that Mary's smart, funny, hot roommate Sarah, who would've been a better match for me anyway, has been flirting with me for months. Or maybe I don't get Mary but just keep trying and trying, convinced of the power of my spell, and eventually stop being Windsmith and become That Girl Who's Obssessed With Mary. I forget how to be myself, and if I ever do snap out of it, I no longer have any idea how to act around Girls Who Aren't Mary, and I've blown my chances for any healthy relationship for many a moon to come.

And that, children, is why Love Spells Are No Good.

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

I don't like more specific spells. I have very particular beliefs about how magic works. I believe that the main effect of a spell is on the caster. If I cast a spell to "Make Mary fall in love with me," it's not going to make Mary suddenly and inexplicably fall madly in love with me. But it is going to me act differently around her, becoming more and more the person I think she wants me to be in order to be interested in me, and less and less the person I really am. So, yes, free will is being tampered with - not Mary's, which doesn't falter a whit, but mine, which I surrender to a fantasy of what it would be like to be in a relationship with Mary. And maybe I get Mary and then find out that being in a relationship with her sucks. Or maybe I don't get Mary, and get depressed, and totally miss the fact that Mary's smart, funny, hot roommate Sarah, who would've been a better match for me anyway, has been flirting with me for months.

And that, children, is why Love Spells Are No Good.

Then it sounds like its just a psychological trick. It simply makes you (not you specifically) think somethings going to happen and boosts your confidence. Saying to yourself a statement over and over again will not yield any less results. This is why I think magick is futile. I have yet to find magic that actually works.

[Windsmith]

Then it sounds like its just a psychological trick. It simply makes you (not you specifically) think somethings going to happen and boosts your confidence. Saying to yourself a statement over and over again will not yield any less results. This is why I think magick is futile. I have yet to find magic that actually works.I believe that it is a psychological trick. I (and a few others here at MW) refer to magic as "psychology for romantics." It is a beautiful, multi-sensorial way of creating change within myself. But I also believe that changing myself can have the power to change everything.

With the other spell I talked about, I believe that I was a better person to be around (especially for unattached queer women) after I set that spell in motion. My being a better person to be around put people I met in a better mood. This (I believe) led them to better interactions with the people and things in their lives. The ripples spread out forever. If I can change myself, I can change the Cosmos.

I suspect that, at the core, you and I have similar views on how magic works. The difference is that, for you, that view makes you feel that magic is futile and doesn't actually work, while, for me, that view makes me believe that magic is quite powerful and works quite well.

Just because it's all in my mind doesn't make it any less real.

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

I suspect that, at the core, you and I have similar views on how magic works. The difference is that, for you, that view makes you feel that magic is futile and doesn't actually work, while, for me, that view makes me believe that magic is quite powerful and works quite well.

Just because it's all in my mind doesn't make it any less real.

Probably, though for me Id rather not waste my time with psychological tricks. In order for me to believe it actually works there has to be something out of my control, something external, that has to cause something to happen- some god, force, spirit, that is causing it. I mean i just be real, just by thinking something is going to happen does not mean its going to happen. This is also another reason why magic casters and books and authors and stuff never promise to provide a spell that will make you win the lottery because the stuff doesnt work! Its all in your mind. So although it can have effects on peoples attitude and other emotional, internal factors and possibly external factors relating to internal factors. That is something im not interested when I can just use hypnosis,for example, which is probably more effective. I would only use my time on magic that actually worked for me and caused external things to happen. Which is why spirit summoning fascinates me... Anyway I have a realistic (some might call pessimistic) views on things.

[~Elise~]

Yup--you're pessimistic.

I've used magic and affected external things...magic happens--just like shite. It's all in the POV. You expect it not to work and damn if you're not right...it won't work.

It isn't a trick, at least IMNSHO.

PS...be careful what you summon. Don't raise anything that you can't put back down. /standard disclaimer

Elise

[RainInanna]

Probably, though for me Id rather not waste my time with psychological tricks.

You'd rather not waste your time with something that yields the results people want? Hypnosis *is* a psychological trick. So are neuro-linguistic programming, meditation, and affirmations. So is using any magical system as a model to focus your brain on getting what you want. The line between these ideas and magic is not so hard. It's magic for skeptics and non-theists.

I'm a skeptic too, but I feel magic works precisely *because* it's psychological trickery that creates results. Getting the results is the best reason to use it. That line of thinking is exactly what spurs Chaotes and many occultists on - finding what's useful, and using it. You will find such people keeping detailed diaries of experiments and observations, doing studies into psychology and neurology, employing psychological tricks such as hypnosis.


This is also another reason why magic casters and books and authors and stuff never promise to provide a spell that will make you win the lottery because the stuff doesnt work!

They don't provide lottery spells because they're improbable - you're going against the intent of millions of others who are buying the same tickets, and for a reward that is unnecessary. But you'll notice there are always prosperity spells for obtaining the money we need and want, and for creating fruitful abundance in our lives.

[BlackLili]

Probably, though for me Id rather not waste my time with psychological tricks.

Might I also point out that "psychological tricks" can also include; dressing a certain way to attract a certain person, using makeup to alter one's appearance, accessorizing to accentuate certain features or downplay others, positive body language and body mirroring, eye contact, starting a conversation of interest to the other party, and otherwise not being a complete prat in the presence of one's intended.

Psychological tricks are old hat when it comes to relationships. What doesn't work for you does not ever mean that it doesn't work in general. It could just mean that it doesn't work for you, specifically.

[Darbla]

Do you think its right to do Love Spells? Most the people I know say its wrong to do Love Spells.. that its the cruelest of spells to make someone love you against their will.
Heck yeah. Doesn't the world need more love? Just try to keep it "for the greatest good of all" or whatever you use for CYA.

Darbla