Rites of Passage

[Teresa]

http://www.tryskelion.com/tryskelion/crone6.htm

This article was something that I wished to share and also made me realize that we do not currently have a thread here about Rites of Passage, so I decided to start one.

http://www.tryskelion.com/tryskelion/passrit.htm

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I see a number of people have looked at this thread but no one has replied so I must assume that the question or thrust of the thread is to vague. I make that assumption for that is the conclusion I myself reached.

In that light I ask:

1. To what degree do you wish to take this thread?

2. Do you desire a simple discussion of Rites of Passge and the ceremonies associated with them?

3. Do you desire a discussion on the planning and preparation of a Rite of Passage?

4. Do you seek to create an acutal online Rite of Passage?

5. Is the thrust of the thread aligned towards the Croning Ceremony and it's funtion? I make that suggestion based upon the referenced material and link.

6. Is the purpose to discuss the greater notion of what a rite of passage is and when they should or do occur?

7. Are you asking in reference to women only or male only or a combined issue?

Granted these are not all the possible questions or thrusts one may take with this thread but it will give some opening grounds upon which to build.

[Teresa]

I see a number of people have looked at this thread but no one has replied so I must assume that the question or thrust of the thread is to vague. I make that assumption for that is the conclusion I myself reached.

In that light I ask:

1. To what degree do you wish to take this thread?

2. Do you desire a simple discussion of Rites of Passge and the ceremonies associated with them?

3. Do you desire a discussion on the planning and preparation of a Rite of Passage?

4. Do you seek to create an acutal online Rite of Passage?

5. Is the thrust of the thread aligned towards the Croning Ceremony and it's funtion? I make that suggestion based upon the referenced material and link.

6. Is the purpose to discuss the greater notion of what a rite of passage is and when they should or do occur?

7. Are you asking in reference to women only or male only or a combined issue?

Granted these are not all the possible questions or thrusts one may take with this thread but it will give some opening grounds upon which to build.

I intentionally left it vague so people would feel free to post any questions, discuss the different rites of passage, post rituals if they wish, even talk about how you go about planning and preparing for various rite of passages. The second link shows a few different kinds of rites of passage, there are more and different ones depending on the background a person comes from. Even death can be viewed as a rite of passage.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Ok, I understand where you are coming from now. I think part of the problem lies in the topic is so broad its difficult to begin without some sort of point foucs to pull one into the discussion.

Since the primary reference link is about the croning ceremony lets start there why don't we. Let me add the fact I am male so it is a completly unknowable item in all facets.

I'm not sure one could do an actual on-line type ritual as I think much of the ceremony would be focused upon personal ideals and notions. I think one might do an acknowledgement or congratulations type thing but no formal ceremony. Well not one open to the greater group though I suppose other Crones might do something to welcome and maybe do a closed quesiton and answer type thread.

I say closed for while it might be enlightening to the greater group I'm not sure those who have not experienced the changes and such could really relate or understand. Maybe the females could but not sure about the males with regard to the changing influence of the female energies and cycles.

To me (just turned 50 a few weeks ago) i'm not sure at what age most would consider a woman to be Crone age. I suppose that would have to be the first article of discussion. I would think part of the selection would be the point of losing the menstrual cycle and no longer being controlled by the blood rites.

I think that loss is an instrumental stage for passing from one stage to the next. I would think the physical changes upon the body would be one critical notion of becoming the Crone and passing from Mother stage.

I do think that it would require a passage of a certain amount of time after the loss to fully cross from Mother stage to Crone stage. The time being the requirement for the mental and physical changes to be completed and smooth out.

Yet at the same time I am not sure if that is a viable point of demarkation either. Not that it is not a major point but I do not think it is a set point where one could say by this age you should have passed this physical trait.

I am not sure how to place it but wonder if some sort of "Authority" position would not also be involved. I recall my great aunt before her death was the Crone in our family. Part due to age and part due to position of influence within the family structure. She was the head of our family and keeper of much of the lore and settled many discussions of what was correct or alowed.

Yet after her death their is no clear cut Crone in the family now. Yes, plently of elders but none that are the head of the family and the Crone.

I suppose some of the criteria would be suited to determine when a male reaches "Sage" age. Though that I think would be a new point of discussion.

[Lunacie]

I want to point out, first of all, that there is also a ritual for men called a Saging Ceremony, when a man reaches the age and the experience to be called a Sage.

I have been honored by a Croning Ritual myself, and was preparing to do a Croning Ritual for two friends when one of them died quite suddenly, and I ended up doing a very different Rite of Passage.

Some Pagan groups say that there are specific ages or stages when these Rites of Passage are appropriate. They go by multiples of 13, with the age of 13 being the rite of passage from childhood into young adulthood. This then would make the stage of Croning or Saging either 52 or 65.

Many others say that is too arbitrary and prefer to consider life events ~ such as reaching menopause, becoming a grandmother, having been a teacher in a coven or group. I was 57 when my group honored me with a Croning Ritual. The two ladies I was preparing to do a Croning for during the December full moon were 56 and 53, both grandmothers, both had started stepping into the role of teacher to others. Both expressed an interest and I was also interested in celebrating their life experiences and their work in our coven.


Yet another Rite of Passage that I've enjoyed officiating are four weddings/handfastings, and one Wiccan Initiation.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

The two ladies I was preparing to do a Croning for during the December full moon were 56 and 53


I might be showing my lack of knowledge here but why the full moon? Just me, but I would think the ceremony would be on a waning or waxing moon not the full moon. I suppose I see the full moon as the full mother fact when she is ripe and fertile.

I suppose it might be more aligned with Wicca than the family tradition I am familiar with. What I recall, though vaguely, is that the maiden facet was the rising moon not yet full, the mother was the full moon ripe, fertile and full and the falling moon the Crone who had passed beyond motherhood. I have used the terms Mother, Maiden and Crone though those are not the terms I was raised with.



Yet another Rite of Passage that I've enjoyed officiating are four weddings/handfastings, and one Wiccan Initiation


Would you say that a wedding / handfast is a rite of passage or simply a milestone upon a given cycle? The reason I ask is that I would think that the commitment that goes with it is not a rite but a joining of energy and purpose. Sort of like the notion that it is a possible route taken before Motherhood status but not required to become a mother. I would think the notion of giving birth to be a rite of passage with the potential handfasting being an outward sign of commitment.

Yet even that is not completely true for one could still experience all the conditions of a handfasting without the actual commitment to each other.

The initiation I can clearly see how that is a rite of passage. Though I can also see it as a milestone upon ones life journey. Same meaning I suppose just different verbiage.

[Lunacie]

I might be showing my lack of knowledge here but why the full moon? Just me, but I would think the ceremony would be on a waning or waxing moon not the full moon. I suppose I see the full moon as the full mother fact when she is ripe and fertile.

I suppose it might be more aligned with Wicca than the family tradition I am familiar with. What I recall, though vaguely, is that the maiden facet was the rising moon not yet full, the mother was the full moon ripe, fertile and full and the falling moon the Crone who had passed beyond motherhood. I have used the terms Mother, Maiden and Crone though those are not the terms I was raised with.

I believe I was planning to do the croning rituals at the time of their birthdays, as mine had been done. It could coincide with a moon phase, but as we generall met on a Saturday night, we had begun to celebrate whatever moon phase it was at that time rather than not having a ritual just because it wasn't the full moon on that particular Saturday.



Would you say that a wedding / handfast is a rite of passage or simply a milestone upon a given cycle? The reason I ask is that I would think that the commitment that goes with it is not a rite but a joining of energy and purpose. Sort of like the notion that it is a possible route taken before Motherhood status but not required to become a mother. I would think the notion of giving birth to be a rite of passage with the potential handfasting being an outward sign of commitment.

Yet even that is not completely true for one could still experience all the conditions of a handfasting without the actual commitment to each other.

The initiation I can clearly see how that is a rite of passage. Though I can also see it as a milestone upon ones life journey. Same meaning I suppose just different verbiage.


What makes the difference between a Rite of Passage and a Life Milestone? Is getting your driver's license a Rite or a Milestone? What about the first time you have sex? Getting your first job? Any of these can be celebrated as a Rite of Passage in my opinion.

There are many Rites of Passage celebrated by other religions and other cultures, I'm just sharing what I know of Rites of Passage that are commonly celebrated within the Wiccan religion.

~ Wiccaning (naming ceremony for new baby)
~ Coming of Age (generally age 13 or puberty)
~ Initiation (generally 3 times, possibly less or more)
~ Handfasting (wedding)
~ Handparting (divorce)
~ Eldering (possibly at menopause or retirement)
~ Passing Over (funeral/memorial)


And my memory has failed me yet again as to the length of time between these various stages of life - it's actually based on the number 7, not 13. At one time children began going off to school at 7, possibly reached puberty at 14, may have gotten married at 21 or had their first child then, etc.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I believe I was planning to do the croning rituals at the time of their birthdays


That actually makes more sense to me than tying it to a moon phase. I suppose I see the moon as representative of the blood cycle yet age and birth date I think do make more sense as a marker of life passage.



but as we generally met on a Saturday night, we had begun to celebrate whatever moon phase it was at that time rather than not having a ritual just because it wasn't the full moon on that particular Saturday


That makes perfect sense as well. While the moon phases would be nice I think our current life styles and such do not really allow us to align with them as they might have in the past.

I know my previous employer (USN) really didn't care to shift my work schedule or such to match moon phases.



What makes the difference between a Rite of Passage and a Life Milestone?


Actually that is a good question that I do not think has a clear-cut answer. I know as a male their were and are things that marked my rites of passage that did not pertain to my sisters. Yet inversely they had some that did not pertain to me.

You do make some points in reference to what is also a religious rite of passage and what is a social rite of passage. The driver’s license is definitely a social rite of passage. Some might say your first sexual experience is a rite but I think the rite comes in when you (collectively) recognize and accept the responsibility that goes with it.

I sort of see the wham bam thank you mame as animalistic and nothing more. Simply satisfaction of an urge.



There are many Rites of Passage celebrated by other religions and other cultures, I'm just sharing what I know of Rites of Passage that are commonly celebrated within the Wiccan religion.


I fully agree. Thank you for sharing the Wiccan perspective for it is not an area I am fully familiar with in that perspective.

I do think many rites of passage are being lost though. I remember the first time I was blooded and the importance of that. Yet today that is one of those that I think is fading away. Heck even the right of passage of owning my first knife or gun was really a big thing as a male coming of a certain age.



And my memory has failed me yet again as to the length of time between these various stages of life - it's actually based on the number 7, not 13. At one time children began going off to school at 7, possibly reached puberty at 14, may have gotten married at 21 or had their first child then, etc.


That makes sense. In many ways it is reflective of the notion of the old maid by 14 or 15 that used to be heard in the mountains and such.

I seem to recall I was about 7 when I was given responsibility of using a weapon and being taught the proper use of one. BB Gun if I recall correctly though my grandfather always spoke of real guns for his youth.

Had knives before then. Yet even that was an evolution for as we got older the knives went from pocket type to hunting and skinning, longer blades and heavier blades.

Darn it's hard to think back that long ago now.

Edited to add:

This just occured to me but the first sex act was no where near as important as the first time you actually got a dirty magazine. To have that magazine seemed to put you high up in the eyes of your male friends. Then it became a process of one up man ship as you tried to get a better magazine with more pictures.

Strange the things we recall or did as children turning into young adults.

[Teresa]

A recent event that is viewed as the first "Rite of Passage" in their customs is the naming ceremony for an African child. I recently had the honor to attend such a ceremony by invitation.

These people believe in waiting a certain amount of days before they give a name to a new born child. After that time has passed they invite relatives and friends to celebrate with them. They usually sacrifice a ram or goat and use the meat from it to feed the guests that attend. The Elders take the baby and anoint it's head with oil and ask the witnesses to pray for the child. After this is done there is usually a long celebration with food, and drumming, dance and merriment. People bring gifts for the child too.

This was such a wonderful and exciting experience for me to have witnessed. It is similar to some tribal practices that took place here in earlier times.

[Lunacie]

A recent event that is viewed as the first "Rite of Passage" in their customs is the naming ceremony for an African child. I recently had the honor to attend such a ceremony by invitation.

These people believe in waiting a certain amount of days before they give a name to a new born child. After that time has passed they invite relatives and friends to celebrate with them. They usually sacrifice a ram or goat and use the meat from it to feed the guests that attend. The Elders take the baby and anoint it's head with oil and ask the witnesses to pray for the child. After this is done there is usually a long celebration with food, and drumming, dance and merriment. People bring gifts for the child too.

This was such a wonderful and exciting experience for me to have witnessed. It is similar to some tribal practices that took place here in earlier times.

I think this is certainly one of the Rites of Passage that MonSno was saying are becoming lost to us. I really like that Wiccans are making an effort to continues these celebrations of changes in our lives. And it's interesting to see how similar some of these customs are from one culture or religion to another.

More women these days are embracing the Rite of Croning. We are choosing to acknowledge our wisdom and the accumulated experiences instead of being cast aside into retirement homes, seen as no longer being of any value. It seems we are returning to seeing the value of our elders in society as more grandparents are taking on the role of providing child care rather than putting the little ones in child care with strangers. I am definately seeing a return to this practice in the last 10 years, and am very grateful that my daughter has not moved so far away that I would not be able to do this myself. I think I have a lot to teach my grandchildren, and that I share some insights because of genetic issues that we share as a family.

[Teresa]

More women these days are embracing the Rite of Croning. We are choosing to acknowledge our wisdom and the accumulated experiences instead of being cast aside into retirement homes, seen as no longer being of any value. It seems we are returning to seeing the value of our elders in society as more grandparents are taking on the role of providing child care rather than putting the little ones in child care with strangers. I am definately seeing a return to this practice in the last 10 years, and am very grateful that my daughter has not moved so far away that I would not be able to do this myself. I think I have a lot to teach my grandchildren, and that I share some insights because of genetic issues that we share as a family.

Other cultures hold high esteem and great respect for their elders. Why Americans do not still bothers me. Frankly that is why we have lost some of our traditions and also normal family rituals. It is sad that so much has been lost. I hope that we change and resume as other cultures in honoring and learning from the elders.

The elders passed on the information, but the younger generations had to value it to continue the processes. For example Spiritual Cleansing. Families had certain things that they did when strangers came around and also for general maintenance of their homes and the energies within them. Special things were done to remove the "stain of death" if someone died in the home .

[MonSno_LeeDra]

A recent event that is viewed as the first "Rite of Passage" in their customs is the naming ceremony for an African child. I recently had the honor to attend such a ceremony by invitation.

That sounds like it was a very special ceremony and an honor to be invited.

It sort of reminds me of the old rituals were a male upon reaching a certain age was sent forth on some task then would chose his adult name and leave behind his child name.

Never had the honor of attending one though I think it would be a very special thing to witness.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Other cultures hold high esteem and great respect for their elders.

That is one that is very apparent within the orient. I saw it in parts of the former Eastern Europe.

Why Americans do not still bothers me.

I've wondered about that myself at times. I once though it a generational thing but am not sure.

Frankly that is why we have lost some of our traditions and also normal family rituals.

I 100 percent agree on that one.

It is sad that so much has been lost. I hope that we change and resume as other cultures in honoring and learning from the elders.

That would be nice. I just wonder if we really can resume and recover those things that just a few years ago were the norm.

The elders passed on the information, but the younger generations had to value it to continue the processes.

That is one facet that I think has suffered as we have become more technicalogical. It seem's the old information is not wanted and no longer applies to our younger generations.

For example Spiritual Cleansing. Families had certain things that they did when strangers came around and also for general maintenance of their homes and the energies within them. Special things were done to remove the "stain of death" if someone died in the home .

I think the notion of cleaning from death varied depenging upon time and place. In the mountainous area's bodies frequently laid in state in the home. Many times on a table, sometimes the very dining room table.

I think this area were I live also recognized a wake type funeral belief. We have a large Scotish / Irish influence in this area of Virginia / West Virginia. Families would gather and various members took turns at standing with the deceased. Then of course the stories and rememberances and food.

But I think death was seen differently than it is now. Most of the stories of "Cleaning" I have heard of started after people were laid out in other spots than the family home.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

.. I really like that Wiccans are making an effort to continues these celebrations of changes in our lives. And it's interesting to see how similar some of these customs are from one culture or religion to another.

I agree sometimes when we view just how similar we actually are it makes the world even smaller and closer.

More women these days are embracing the Rite of Croning.

I wonder just how many actually realize that it is what they are being honored for?

We see more and more ceremonies for lives well spent and honors rendered to them for their efforts and such. Even to the extent that more and more make mention to a life new born that begins even as they think they have progressed beyond it.

We are choosing to acknowledge our wisdom and the accumulated experiences instead of being cast aside into retirement homes, seen as no longer being of any value. It seems we are returning to seeing the value of our elders in society as more grandparents are taking on the role of providing child care rather than putting the little ones in child care with strangers.

I agree fully on this one. I remember that being around my grandparents was one of the influences that always made me ask about the stories they told us of our ancestors.

I am definately seeing a return to this practice in the last 10 years, and am very grateful that my daughter has not moved so far away that I would not be able to do this myself. I think I have a lot to teach my grandchildren, and that I share some insights because of genetic issues that we share as a family.

I think the return to the practice is good though I think for many it is now from financial burdens vice change in perspective of the elder's worth.

Though I fully agree, we have much we can teach our grandchildren and even remind our children about.