Pagan Path Prophets?

[Cunae]

I am curious if the pagan faiths have prophets as traditionally defined... like Abraham to Judaism, Isaiah to Christianity, Muhammed in Islam, Joseph Smith to Mormonism. If so, what do they prophesy?

[HetHert]

Edgar Cayce could be considered one. He was more of a channeler and psychic by today's standards but then again I'm willing to wager that so were the old world prophets.

[BlackLili]

Jim Morrison.

'nuff said.


http://7c.img.v4.skyrock.net/7c4/lizard-king/pics/18510854.jpg

[HetHert]

Jim Morrison.

'nuff said.


http://7c.img.v4.skyrock.net/7c4/lizard-king/pics/18510854.jpg



Troof!!! and so pretty to look at. :mmm:

[Cunae]

All right, you two. Can we get back to the real subject?? :smile:

[)O( ~ Khara~ )O(]

By prophet do you mean someone who can predict the future with a decent accuracy correct? Or someone who feels they are telling the people whatever it is deity wants them to know? That deity speaks directly through them?

The problem with that now, in this day and age, is that many of us can predict the future just by reviewing the past and adding or subtracting a few factors.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

In my opinion I would say no if reflecting upon the broader notion of Paganism. Part of having a prophet requires dogma and structure within which the prophet can work. Since the majority of Paganism, especially eclectic Paganism holds no formal structure (in the broader sense of universal format) there can not be a prophet for it.

Though some Recons might recognize persons from elder stories and such as prophets. Not in the sense that biblical prophets existed I do not think, but as bringers or persona’s of clues and beliefs handed down through the Edda's and tales and myths of a given cultural set.

[Kraheera]

In my opinion I would say no if reflecting upon the broader notion of Paganism. Part of having a prophet requires dogma and structure within which the prophet can work. Since the majority of Paganism, especially eclectic Paganism holds no formal structure (in the broader sense of universal format) there can not be a prophet for it.

Though some Recons might recognize persons from elder stories and such as prophets. Not in the sense that biblical prophets existed I do not think, but as bringers or persona’s of clues and beliefs handed down through the Edda's and tales and myths of a given cultural set.



I could see us recognizing a historical figure (whether they had future visions or were just good teachers) as being significant... but I don't think you will find a pagan culture that has "prophets" in the biblical sense. Celtic myth, after all, has quite a few folks that spoke for the gods. Norse Mythology has many a 'mortal man' that was the instrument of the gods.

And while those people may be acclaimed, and almost considered demi-gods in some stances, they aren't considered prophets in the sense that Jesus, Mohammed, Siddartha Gotama, et. al are.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

...And while those people may be acclaimed, and almost considered demi-gods in some stances, they aren't considered prophets in the sense that Jesus, Mohammed, Siddartha Gotama, et. al are.

I agree that's why I said not in the biblical sense.

Though after I wrote that I am not sure one could not claim a prophet like person may not have arisen in non Abrahamic religions. BlackHawk might just be considered a prophit for some of his visions and the repercussions he forsaw for his people and the world in general. Many of his visions and words have been a significant source of inspiration and influence upon those who have taken a Native American slant on thier beliefs.

His is the first name that springs to mind but I'm not sure he is the only one.

[BlackLili]

All right, you two. Can we get back to the real subject?? :smile:
Hey, I'm serious. Morrison fits my definition of a prophet, and he was certainly Pan-like enough for me to safely consider a Pagan...

I don't think Pagans have prophets in a biblical sense, like MonSno said. Because you know, we don't like, have a bible.

As an example, in case you think I'm still being flippant, I put forth the following, printed in 1969, in The Lords and the New Creatures: Poems; The Lords: Notes on Vision:

Yoga powers.
To make oneself invisible or small.
To become gigantic and reach to the farthest things.
To change the course of nature.
To place oneself anywhere in space or time.
To summon the dead.
To exalt senses and perceive inaccessible images, of events on other worlds,
in one's deepest inner mind, or in the minds of others.

To me, those are words to follow, to think about, to ponder its deeper meaning. As biblical prophets did not predict the future - like Nostradamus is said to have done - as much as provide examples to follow and say wise things to ponder, I maintain that Jim Morrison is my idea of a Pagan prophet.

[Darth Brooks]

I don't particularly recognize any prophets, priests, or popes. But I think Mohandas K. Gandhi is the closest thing to a prophet who is important to me, and he's for everybody, no matter what religion you are.

[Cunae]

Hey, I'm serious. Morrison fits my definition of a prophet, and he was certainly Pan-like enough for me to safely consider a Pagan...

I don't think Pagans have prophets in a biblical sense, like MonSno said. Because you know, we don't like, have a bible.

As an example, in case you think I'm still being flippant, I put forth the following, printed in 1969, in The Lords and the New Creatures: Poems; The Lords: Notes on Vision:


To me, those are words to follow, to think about, to ponder its deeper meaning. As biblical prophets did not predict the future - like Nostradamus is said to have done - as much as provide examples to follow and say wise things to ponder, I maintain that Jim Morrison is my idea of a Pagan prophet.

I'm sorry. I see your point. That's one yummy prophet! :smile:

[Lunacie]

Edgar Cayce could be considered one. He was more of a channeler and psychic by today's standards but then again I'm willing to wager that so were the old world prophets.

It's been many years since I've read Edgar Cayce's writings, but I didn't recall him being Pagan. In fact this link says he was clearly Christian... http://sleepingprophet.org/edgarcayce_christian.html

[BlackLili]

I'm sorry. I see your point. That's one yummy prophet! :smile:
I gotta admit, it's a perk. :smoke:

[David19]

Edgar Cayce could be considered one. He was more of a channeler and psychic by today's standards but then again I'm willing to wager that so were the old world prophets.


Hey, I'm serious. Morrison fits my definition of a prophet, and he was certainly Pan-like enough for me to safely consider a Pagan...

I don't think Pagans have prophets in a biblical sense, like MonSno said. Because you know, we don't like, have a bible.

As an example, in case you think I'm still being flippant, I put forth the following, printed in 1969, in The Lords and the New Creatures: Poems; The Lords: Notes on Vision:


To me, those are words to follow, to think about, to ponder its deeper meaning. As biblical prophets did not predict the future - like Nostradamus is said to have done - as much as provide examples to follow and say wise things to ponder, I maintain that Jim Morrison is my idea of a Pagan prophet.


It's been many years since I've read Edgar Cayce's writings, but I didn't recall him being Pagan. In fact this link says he was clearly Christian... http://sleepingprophet.org/edgarcayce_christian.html

I'm going to agree with Lunacie, I think Edgar Cayce was a Christian, not a Pagan in any sense of the word, as for Pagan Prophets, there probably have been some, but, Pagan is a broad category, so, while someone might be considered a Prophet in Asatru or the Hellenic religion, they, probably, wouldn't in, let's say, Kemetic Orthodox, the Celtic religion, Wicca, etc, they, probably, wouldn't even be heard of.

Also, thanks for that post BlackLili, that quote you posted is quite interesting.

[coyoger]

I am sure that there are some true Dyed in the Wool Prophets in every path. They are just hidden. If a path were more main stream I'm sure they would be more noticable.

But say you follow the path of Isis. And you work within a group. II'm sure that there might be a p[eson who when they speak it makes sence, and inspires you to become more faithful to the path. Someone who seems to have a connection to the higher scorce. But only those who listen to that path, those who are willing to beleive whould know them as Prophets.

[ninurta2008]

Stephen Hawking is a prophet, he predicted the future of the universe!!!!

Or in the sense of religious leader, The pope seems to think he can talk for god.

I just simply don't believe in prophets. Maybe buddhas, philosophers, and predicters, but prophets, no.

[LostSheep]

Stephen Hawking is a prophet, he predicted the future of the universe!!!!


The great thing with doing that, though, is that no one'll be around who'll remember it to say that he got it wrong, if he does. Predicting something next week is a lot more difficult than predicting something in a million years.

[Son of Goddess]

I don't want to make a generalization, though I personally believe it may be a rule across the board in the ancient Mediterranean, but in Rome there certainly were prophets, or vates as they are called in Latin. However, the vates of Rome and the prophets of monotheism serve two different functions.

A Vates was an individual who called for a return to traditional piety, a moral renewal, and appealed to justice (Jorge Rupke, Religion of the Romans, p. 231). They did not necessarily "foresee" or "prophesy" anything, but knew via divine interaction (be it a vision or augury) that the powers that be (be it a particular deity or several or all) were upset with society.

However, Numa Pompilius could be likened to a prophet in the monotheist sense of the term since he is, essentially, the founder of Roman religion. Via incubation, Numa Pompilius was taught the proper ways in which to address and sacrifice to the Gods. His proscriptions were very simple, very basic, and they were always kept for reference should society need to return to them. http://novaroma.org/nr/Numa_tradition

There were also the Sibyls, the Cumaean Sibyl was best known at Rome for providing Tarquinius Superbus with 3 books of prophetic sayings that were kept throughout the duration of Rome and tended to by a particular priesthood. These Sibylline Books were only turned to when disaster loomed on Rome, or already hit.

On the other hand, there were "prophets" like the Pythia of Delphi; though I do not know if the Greek word "manteis" equates to the same meaning of the monotheist prophet.

[David19]

I don't want to make a generalization, though I personally believe it may be a rule across the board in the ancient Mediterranean, but in Rome there certainly were prophets, or vates as they are called in Latin. However, the vates of Rome and the prophets of monotheism serve two different functions.

A Vates was an individual who called for a return to traditional piety, a moral renewal, and appealed to justice (Jorge Rupke, Religion of the Romans, p. 231). They did not necessarily "foresee" or "prophesy" anything, but knew via divine interaction (be it a vision or augury) that the powers that be (be it a particular deity or several or all) were upset with society.

However, Numa Pompilius could be likened to a prophet in the monotheist sense of the term since he is, essentially, the founder of Roman religion. Via incubation, Numa Pompilius was taught the proper ways in which to address and sacrifice to the Gods. His proscriptions were very simple, very basic, and they were always kept for reference should society need to return to them. http://novaroma.org/nr/Numa_tradition

There were also the Sibyls, the Cumaean Sibyl was best known at Rome for providing Tarquinius Superbus with 3 books of prophetic sayings that were kept throughout the duration of Rome and tended to by a particular priesthood. These Sibylline Books were only turned to when disaster loomed on Rome, or already hit.

On the other hand, there were "prophets" like the Pythia of Delphi; though I do not know if the Greek word "manteis" equates to the same meaning of the monotheist prophet.

Cool info, I remember reading about the Sibyls, were they Prophets who prophecised the future?. As for a Mesopotamian context, there were Prophets, which were a seperate class from diviners, quite a number of them were women, and Prophets would act as the mouthpiece of a particular God, either prophecising the future, like some of the Biblical Prophets, they admonished in the name of a God, and, in general, delivered Oracles. In Assyria (and probably other periods of Mesopotamian history), Inanna/Ishtar was one of the main deities who gave Oracles, especially to the King (who was seen as Sacred), Utu is also one of the more principal Gods who gave prophecies (being that he a God of prophecy, as well as the Sun, he's similar to Apollo in a lot of ways).

[Darth Brooks]

i am sure that there are some true dyed in the wool prophets in every path. They are just hidden. If a path were more main stream i'm sure they would be more noticable.

But say you follow the path of isis. And you work within a group. Ii'm sure that there might be a p[eson who when they speak it makes sence, and inspires you to become more faithful to the path. Someone who seems to have a connection to the higher scorce. But only those who listen to that path, those who are willing to beleive whould know them as prophets.

Actually I like that! That's a good way of looking at it. :thumbsup: