holy cow Ive got it! I found my goddess!!!

[swapmeetmomma]

Ok ive never been able to totally understand or relate to the idea of a goddess. NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE. But you all know that Im christian and all that but I have this huge urge/need to worship the earth, I thought it was because its a gift from god but that never felt right just sounded right. BUT I read this article on mysticism and it totally hit me! MOTHER EARTH! one more time for those that didnt hear me MOTHER EARTH! I need to know her name! Someone tell me please.

Here is the quote

"Instinctively every one has done what the neo-Pagan openly admit doing, calling Earth, Mother. This recognition of Earth as our Mother is justified because we all are dependent on her for our survival. Just as the child comes to love the mother who cares and nurtures him, so too, we love Mother Earth who we know loves and nurtures humankind as her children. By definition, this is mysticism. A.G.H."


Here is the link

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/m/mysticism.html

[Toby Stimpson]

I looked at the article and there's quite a lot of good bits in it, thankyou for sharing!

The Mother Earth archetype can be found all over the place in many different cultures. There are also quite a few cultures that viewed the earth as a male deity as well. I think whats important is to understand exactly what your motivations are and also what you want to get... if you label yourself as a Christian, are you open to worshipping the Earth as a personified Deity... or is this feeling of reverence more inline with viewing the Earth as a Divine manifestation of God. Mysticism teaches union with God and many forms of Mysticism teaches an underlying monotheistic oneness. I think these two things will be very important to you if you go down this road... the question of whether or not it's a Goddess you want, or if you even believe in multiple Gods.

If you look up 'Mother Earth' I'm sure you'll find hundreds of Goddesses associated with it.

[swapmeetmomma]

The main thing with me is I will always worship christ as my God. But I feel like the earth itself is something different. Something that deserves respect of its own. Get what im saying?

[Darth Brooks]

Glad you found a lead for your path, swapmeetmomma! Keep in mind though, in places like Egypt it was usually the other way 'round...Mother Sky (i.e., Nut) and Father Earth (i.e., Gebb). So the dichotomy isn't exactly the same across the board.

[MsMollimizz]

She's been called by many names...in different lands
Gaia, Mother Earth, Earth Mother, and just Mother is all I can think of. Do you mind me asking how you came to this realization ?
Gentle Light
MsMollimizz

[swapmeetmomma]

She's been called by many names...in different lands
Gaia, Mother Earth, Earth Mother, and just Mother is all I can think of. Do you mind me asking how you came to this realization ?
Gentle Light
MsMollimizz

From looking up mysticism and finding the page I gave a link to in my original post.

[swapmeetmomma]

Glad you found a lead for your path, swapmeetmomma! Keep in mind though, in places like Egypt it was usually the other way 'round...Mother Sky (i.e., Nut) and Father Earth (i.e., Gebb). So the dichotomy isn't exactly the same across the board.
hmm good to know thank you

[Toby Stimpson]

The main thing with me is I will always worship christ as my God. But I feel like the earth itself is something different. Something that deserves respect of its own. Get what im saying?

I think I do... but I'm also a little confused. I'm really interested in what your true beliefs or ideas around this something else is. If it IS a Goddess then it raises the question, atleast to me, are you okay with worshipping another God next to Jesus. If it isn't a Goddess or a God, but something else... what is that something else? Are you necessarily going to be satisfied with a Goddess or a God from an ancient or Polytheistic pantheon, if your faith in jesus is really strong?

I'm asking because a couple of years ago I came to a realization like this myself, but afterwards found that it wasn't entirely what I expected it to be and my initial reaction was very different from what my understanding was. if that makes sense

[swapmeetmomma]

I think I do... but I'm also a little confused. I'm really interested in what your true beliefs or ideas around this something else is. If it IS a Goddess then it raises the question, atleast to me, are you okay with worshipping another God next to Jesus. If it isn't a Goddess or a God, but something else... what is that something else? Are you necessarily going to be satisfied with a Goddess or a God from an ancient or Polytheistic pantheon, if your faith in jesus is really strong?

I'm asking because a couple of years ago I came to a realization like this myself, but afterwards found that it wasn't entirely what I expected it to be and my initial reaction was very different from what my understanding was. if that makes sense Okay im not the brightest crayon in the box so please bear with me lol? How else would I recognize "mother earth" if not as a goddess? As far as being okay worshiping a goddess along with christ, i dont know im going with my gut, and my empathic abilities also drives me toward what is right and when I find something that feels right its like an alarm going off inside me.

[Toby Stimpson]

Okay im not the brightest crayon in the box so please bear with me lol? How else would I recognize "mother earth" if not as a goddess?

Well, if you worship the Earth as a Goddess but don't truly believe it is a Goddess, would you really be doing to justice to the feeling you have inside?

Like there are many ways to worship or show reverence to something. But I think understanding what you believe is most important. If you're interested with Mysticisim... figuring out what the goal of mysticism, which is Union with God, does to your belief in Jesus Christ. Do you believe that there are other Gods other than him, and if you do then can you give the same amount of reverence to an Earth Goddess? I think also the question of what Earth Goddess you decide to choose. Is there a particular one that calls to you, if so how does she fit into the picture? Do you necessarily need to have a name for the Earth that will undoubtedly have cultural imagery and stories related to her? If you do, how does that play into what you already believe... if not, what do you get from the Earth and how does the earth as you understand it become Divine for you?

If that makes any sense.

[Nesta]

I'm happy for you Heather :thumbsup:

[Darth Brooks]

Okay im not the brightest crayon in the box so please bear with me lol? How else would I recognize "mother earth" if not as a goddess? As far as being okay worshiping a goddess along with christ, i dont know im going with my gut, and my empathic abilities also drives me toward what is right and when I find something that feels right its like an alarm going off inside me.

I see nothing wrong with worshiping a Goddess alongside Christ, but like Toby, I'm a bit confused as to how you hope to achieve this through worshiping the earth as...well, the earth. Unless you accept the Gaia Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis) or something along those lines.

Just so you know, I think there are a few Goddesses who might work well with Christ, though I would recommend running it past Them and Jesus separately before actually invoking Them in the same rituals. Ishtar, for instance, dies, descends into the netherworld, and rises back to life, I think it may have actually been for three days (but not sure), similar to Jesus' three-day death/descent into hell/resurrection. Of course Ishtar's story is different but there is the possible connection of Jesus with Dumunzi/Tammuz, since they are both Dying-and-Rising Gods associated with agricultural themes (i.e., in the case of Jesus, through His parables). But a possible setback might be the fact that Ishtar has a dark side and also has a reputation for being ravenously sexual (She is the Sacred Prostitute of sacred prostitutes, after all), and I am unsure if this would work well with Jesus, but then again there is the Mary Magdalene thing, which could possibly be tied with Ishtar. Also, in my own belief system I believe Jesus and Osiris are two different forms of the same aspect of God, and since Isis is Osiris' sister/wife, there may be something to be gained from considering a Jesus/Isis connection in your Work. (There is also the strong resemblance between the ancient images of Isis holding the baby Horus the Younger, who is the reincarnation of Osiris that is supposed to rule the world of the living, and the Christian images of Mary holding the baby Jesus.) However, these are only suggestions, and once again I recommend trying to clear it with Jesus and whichever Goddess of your choice separately first, before pulling Them both into a ritual together. But that's just me.

Also, when I make this suggestion of investigating Goddesses you might possibly connect with Jesus, I am speaking of synchronic connections, not diachronic connections. In other words, it doesn't necessarily matter if you can find any historical evidence of direct connections made between Them or not, if it seems logical to you and it speaks to your heart, that is good enough, just be willing to admit you have no historical evidence of any diachronic connections and you should be okay.

To give you an example of what I am talking about...And I apologize in advance for the long-windedness...There is much controversy over the issue of whether or not the Egyptian Set (also spelled Seth) and the Jewish Seth (third son of Adam and Eve, specifically as he appears in Sethian Gnosticism) are one and the same. There is absolutely no historical evidence to suggest any diachronic connection between the two whatsoever, meaning that the similarity between the names is probably incidental (not to mention that in the original Hebrew, Seth is actually spelled "SHTH," or Sheth, with an extra "h"). However, it has been suggested by Gnostic historians that The Gospel of the Egyptians, a Sethian Gnostic text, might have been so titled because the writer intended to grab the Egyptian readers' attentions by positing a connection between the two Seths through the Egyptian Seth's reputation for being bisexual. His homosexual acts might have been interpreted as good by the Gnostics, since they were somewhat notorious for "revisioning" the people of Sodom and Gomorrah as martyred good guys, and the Sodomites in particular were accused of homosexuality (hence the word "sodomy"). Since the Egyptian Seth was hated by the Egyptians for His bisexuality, it may very well have been tempting to the Sethian Gnostics to latch on to Him as a figure they could revise, as a way of opening the door to Sethian Gnosticism for potential Egyptian converts. If it is true that the Sethians asserted any connections between the two Seths (a theory which has yet to be proven), it was most likely only synchronic connections, not diachronic ones. Meaning, there is no evidence to suggest that the Hebrews "stole" Set and turned Him into their Seth (as some people might put it), but it could very well be that the Egyptian Seth was "rehabilitated" by the Sethian Gnostics, so to speak, by re-interpreting Him in terms of the Jewish Seth. Which is along the lines of what I am suggesting to you - i.e., not that you should necessarily be looking for actual historical connections between Jesus and Isis or Ishtar, etc., but that you could possibly re-interpret either of these Goddesses, or some other Goddess, in terms of Jesus. My only reservation would be that this must be done as respectfully as possible toward Jesus and whichever Goddess with Whom you wish to Work. (I hope I haven't just confused you.)

Again, sorry to get so long-winded, I'm just trying to be helpful. If actually worshiping the earth itself is really what you're going for, I would look into the Gaia Hypothesis, linked above, more fully. You might find it beneficial to your attempt at formulating a system of your own, if the rest of my suggestions aren't helpful.

ETA: That is, if you have not already considered the Gaia Hypothesis. I do not mean to presume.

[Nesta]

I was going to post another answer but Darth has gone and said it so well, why bother? :thumbsup:

[Meadhbh]

Well I'm glad to hear you have worked something out. From what I gather there are some people who have other gods along side christ. But to me it always seems like a balancing act if only because of the monothestic nature of christianity. But there are people who manage it clearly. When it comes down to it all you can do is what seems right to you.

[swapmeetmomma]

Thats alot to think about, but I need to think it all over though. The reason I follow christ so passionately is because of his message of love in everything he did. This generation of christians have perverted the religion (i stole that from someone but I believe it). Its not how christ would of wanted it. Which makes me wonder if being "christian" is even the right thing.

[swapmeetmomma]

Darth, thank you very much. You did explain my options and I think I interested in gaia. I will check out the link. Okay so heres a bold question. Is it possible to believe that christ is one of many gods? I know that goes against what alot of people believe, but can I choose a certain masculine god and a certain feminine god to worship?

[OneGreyOwl]

Okay so heres a bold question. Is it possible to believe that christ is one of many gods? I know that goes against what alot of people believe, but can I choose a certain masculine god and a certain feminine god to worship?In my tradition, which is a syncretic form of Wicca, we recognize Christ as an ascended master, which is a term you might enjoy looking up. It may give you another way to look at your spirituality.

[swapmeetmomma]

In my tradition, which is a syncretic form of Wicca, we recognize Christ as an ascended master, which is a term you might enjoy looking up. It may give you another way to look at your spirituality. thank you. and thanks nesta youre a doll

[Xander67]

According to the Gospel of Phillip, who was one of Jesus's Deciples,
Mary Magdaline was his companion. The word Companion back then was used to mean "betrothed" "married"

During the council of Nicea, many legitimate scriptures and accounts of the Life and teachings of Christ were omitted out.

Constantine, contrary to widely held missunderstanding, was a devout Pagan.
The Vatican was the source for the rumors that Mary MAgdaline was a prostitute. This is all historically verifiable.

Mary was to establish the Messianic Christian Faith, Not Peter,

An additional book to read is the Gospel of Mary Magdaline, and the Book of Enoch.

I think that a reverence and honor for mother earth is awesome SwapMeetMama, I think this may help.


Gaia (pronounced /ˈɡeɪ.ə/ or /ˈɡaɪ.ə/; "land" or "earth", from the Ancient Greek Γαῖα; also Gæa or Gea (Koine and Modern Greek Γῆ)[1] is the primal Greek goddess personifying the Earth.

Gaia is a primordial and chthonic deity in the Ancient Greek pantheon and considered a Mother Goddess or Great Goddess.

Her equivalent in the Roman pantheon was Terra.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Goddess

[PhoenixRevival]

Darth, thank you very much. You did explain my options and I think I interested in gaia. I will check out the link. Okay so heres a bold question. Is it possible to believe that christ is one of many gods? I know that goes against what alot of people believe, but can I choose a certain masculine god and a certain feminine god to worship?

I'm going to take a moment here to try at those questions.

To the first one; My take on it is that all gods, godesses, and divine forms are One. The only thing that happened to them were people. We divided that divine aspect up into many, many forms we could understand.

With the Jesus thing, I suppose there are two ways you could look at it. The structured way, that Jesus was not only the Son of God but also a aspect of God himself. In this way, Jesus is just a divine being that took a mortal guise to bring forth the ideals of peace, community, and underderstanding of humankind.

The second way and the one I'm more inclined towards. That Jesus was a man. A mortal human being like you or me who's connection to the Divine that it flowed thru him like light from the sun. Given that close connection he preached the ideals of peace, community and understanding because because he knew that we all are one.

As for "Cherry Picking" your Divine Male and Female Divine aspects... Of course you can. Humans have done so since we first became aware of the Divine. As i look at it, They would just be two half's to the Whole. :smile:

Hope that wasn't confusing as all get out. ^_^

[Ariste]

we came up with a term awhile back for people that follow the philosopies of Christ, but not necesarily the religion...

Christosopher

[Darth Brooks]

Darth, thank you very much. You did explain my options and I think I interested in gaia. I will check out the link. Okay so heres a bold question. Is it possible to believe that christ is one of many gods?

Yes. I certainly do think that Christ is one of many Gods. I also believe there are many Gods and just one God at the very same time. I think They are all really on the same side, regardless of what Their human worshipers say or think.


I know that goes against what alot of people believe,That doesn't matter. There are any number of people who will tell you that "You can't do that!" However, the fact is that you can. As an example, if you really wanted to, you could even figure out a way to honor Christ and Satan at the same time. There are, in fact, precedents for a non-Manichean dualism based on a symbiotic relationship between a light God and a dark God - e.g., the Egyptian Secret of the Two Partners, the medieval "Luciferan" heresy, etc. Praise Jesus, Hail Satan! Ooh look, I just did it. ;) So yes it certainly is possible.

Hell, look at how much liberty the Mormons take with the biblical notions of Jesus...For instance, the whole idea that after He flew away from the Middle East, He flew over to the Americas and appeared to the Native Americans, who are supposed to have been the lost tribes of Israel...And Zion is really in Utah. If Mormons can do this sort of thing, why not you?


but can I choose a certain masculine god and a certain feminine god to worship?You can do whatever you want with your own personal path, and nobody can keep you from doing it, except maybe the Deities you plan on worshiping together, if They have any sort of reservations about it. Again, this goes back to what I said about trying to clear whatever you want to do with Them first. And of course it helps if you're intellectually honest about it too. As long as you refrain from making any bold historical claims about your path and simply acknowledge it as something new, I fail to see a problem.

[Brightshores]

You also might want to take a look at the writings of the medieval Christian mystic Julian of Norwich. She referred to, among other things, the dual masculine and feminine nature of Christ.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for, but thought I'd throw that out for you in case it interests you. :)

[swapmeetmomma]

I'm going to take a moment here to try at those questions.

To the first one; My take on it is that all gods, godesses, and divine forms are One. The only thing that happened to them were people. We divided that divine aspect up into many, many forms we could understand.

With the Jesus thing, I suppose there are two ways you could look at it. The structured way, that Jesus was not only the Son of God but also a aspect of God himself. In this way, Jesus is just a divine being that took a mortal guise to bring forth the ideals of peace, community, and underderstanding of humankind.

The second way and the one I'm more inclined towards. That Jesus was a man. A mortal human being like you or me who's connection to the Divine that it flowed thru him like light from the sun. Given that close connection he preached the ideals of peace, community and understanding because because he knew that we all are one.

As for "Cherry Picking" your Divine Male and Female Divine aspects... Of course you can. Humans have done so since we first became aware of the Divine. As i look at it, They would just be two half's to the Whole. :smile:

Hope that wasn't confusing as all get out. ^_^
Thats helps alot thank you!

[swapmeetmomma]

Yes. I certainly do think that Christ is one of many Gods. I also believe there are many Gods and just one God at the very same time. I think They are all really on the same side, regardless of what Their human worshipers say or think.

That doesn't matter. There are any number of people who will tell you that "You can't do that!" However, the fact is that you can. As an example, if you really wanted to, you could even figure out a way to honor Christ and Satan at the same time. There are, in fact, precedents for a non-Manichean dualism based on a symbiotic relationship between a light God and a dark God - e.g., the Egyptian Secret of the Two Partners, the medieval "Luciferan" heresy, etc. Praise Jesus, Hail Satan! Ooh look, I just did it. ;) So yes it certainly is possible.

Hell, look at how much liberty the Mormons take with the biblical notions of Jesus...For instance, the whole idea that after He flew away from the Middle East, He flew over to the Americas and appeared to the Native Americans, who are supposed to have been the lost tribes of Israel...And Zion is really in Utah. If Mormons can do this sort of thing, why not you?

You can do whatever you want with your own personal path, and nobody can keep you from doing it, except maybe the Deities you plan on worshiping together, if They have any sort of reservations about it. Again, this goes back to what I said about trying to clear whatever you want to do with Them first. And of course it helps if you're intellectually honest about it too. As long as you refrain from making any bold historical claims about your path and simply acknowledge it as something new, I fail to see a problem.
Thanks for the help, you crack me up and make me think at the same time.

[GEBS]

I am replying to both of your threads here.

from your other thread:


Thank you for your advice, and I never thought of it as a journey, that really made something click and made me feel better. Thank you.


There is a reason it's called a Path. :uhhuhuh:

Remember baby steps are still progress. Don't try to rush anything. There is so much information to sift through. Don't hurry just to have a name (many do.). You may find that you change your mind several times. And that is OK. As long as you are learning and thinking you will be fine.




The reason I follow christ so passionately is because of his message of love in everything he did.

That is the same reason he is important to me. I am not Christian but Jesus will always be an important teacher to me. You may find that your relationship with him will change over time. You may find that you stop seeing him as God and instead as teacher, prophet, best friend, even father. If you follow his word as YOU know it I don't think you can go wrong. That means forget what the church teaches and find your relationship with him on your own. The two can be very different.


From here (http://www.thelema101.com/intro.html):

The important thing is that each person has the right to fulfill themselves through whatever beliefs and actions are best suited to them (so long as they do not interfere with the will of others), and only they themselves are qualified to determine what these are.


(not recommending that path for you. just using that link to show the basis of my beliefs. That and some others combined form my path.)


Is it possible to believe that christ is one of many gods? I know that goes against what alot of people believe, but can I choose a certain masculine god and a certain feminine god to worship?

The beauty of a Path instead of a religion is that you can follow it wherever you like. Right or Left. Black or White. Up or Down. Which way is yours? Every decision is your own. Even if you choose to follow a specific Tradition with rigid rules it is still your choice to do so.


An additional book to read is the Gospel of Mary Magdaline, and the Book of Enoch.

I think that a reverence and honor for mother earth is awesome

Great book choices. :thumbsup:


I also wanted to add that you can show respect and love for the Earth without calling Her a Goddess. She doesn't need a name unless you want Her to have one.

[Tanya]

I can only add my 2 cents....

when I talk about 'God or Goddess" what I am saying is "my way of understanding what is divine and bigger than my ability to understand placed in small bites sized crunchy bits."

I believe the use of God and Goddess is really our attempt to anthopomorphize something that is so beyond us that... we are basically stunned by it....

example:
Three blind guys are brought to an elephant and told to describe it.

The first guy gets the trunk and says "Well, an elephant is like a snake."

The second touches a leg and says... "The elephant is like a tree."

The third grabs the tail and says "The elephant is like a bit of string."

Are any completely wrong? Are any completely right?



So I think of Gods or Goddess as "faces of the divine" with which I can most easily identify.


I'm a Bear Girl myself... Andarta...

she is closely linked to your goddess.. who I at least think of as "Terra Mater"

[RoseKitten]

Ok ive never been able to totally understand or relate to the idea of a goddess. NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE. But you all know that Im christian and all that but I have this huge urge/need to worship the earth, I thought it was because its a gift from god but that never felt right just sounded right. BUT I read this article on mysticism and it totally hit me! MOTHER EARTH! one more time for those that didnt hear me MOTHER EARTH! I need to know her name! Someone tell me please.

Here is the quote

"Instinctively every one has done what the neo-Pagan openly admit doing, calling Earth, Mother. This recognition of Earth as our Mother is justified because we all are dependent on her for our survival. Just as the child comes to love the mother who cares and nurtures him, so too, we love Mother Earth who we know loves and nurtures humankind as her children. By definition, this is mysticism. A.G.H."


Here is the link

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/m/mysticism.html

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but you could always stay within your pantheon and worship Sophia. I don't know much about her though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)

[swapmeetmomma]

wow so much help. Thank you all so much.

[Calli]

Sorry I'm late for the party, Heather. I just now saw this thread. One of the beautiful things about a pagan lifestyle is that the choices are all yours. You can worship who and what feels right to you. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. If you want to give a shot at worshipping Jesus and Gaia, go for it. If you change your mind later, that's part of the process. I firmly believe that no god or goddess wants a follower who doesn't belong to them. (I also firmly believe that is why Christianity didn't work for me.) Maybe Gaia will lead you on to someone else. That happens, too.

I also believe that Jesus is one of the gods. I don't believe he's the jealous god that modern churches will teach you. They are the ones who are jealous! If you've been Christian for a long time (you have, right?) you'll know if you displease him. Right?

I'd say to follow your heart, see where it leads, and above all, enjoy the journey. We all have little stumbles, and you will, too. They aren't catastrophic, or something you can't recover from. I would also say that you can't go too far wrong as long as your heart is honest and you don't intend to offend anyone, but I already know you are that way.

Keep us posted. This is exciting to me to watch you unfold your wings.

[Herumetem]

Honor thy Mother. Does it need to be more complex than that? If your belief is that everything was created by God, why not believe that He created Earth to nurture as a mother. There's no need to feel as if you're worshiping anpther deity. Love Earth as your mother, and you're all set.

[ninurta2008]

Some people believe the holy spirit is a female, or goddess, but as for the earth goddess, I think thats just pagan.

Thats not necessarily to say you can't worship her, or in some cases him. Egyptians didnt have an earth mother/earth goddess.

[watersprite]

Ok ive never been able to totally understand or relate to the idea of a goddess. NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE. But you all know that Im christian and all that but I have this huge urge/need to worship the earth, I thought it was because its a gift from god but that never felt right just sounded right. BUT I read this article on mysticism and it totally hit me! MOTHER EARTH! one more time for those that didnt hear me MOTHER EARTH! I need to know her name! Someone tell me please.

Here is the quote

"Instinctively every one has done what the neo-Pagan openly admit doing, calling Earth, Mother. This recognition of Earth as our Mother is justified because we all are dependent on her for our survival. Just as the child comes to love the mother who cares and nurtures him, so too, we love Mother Earth who we know loves and nurtures humankind as her children. By definition, this is mysticism. A.G.H."


Here is the link

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/m/mysticism.html

Gaea! Sometimes spelled Gaia. She is my Goddess as well.
I hope you are honoring her by taking care of her to the best of your ability. Blessings.

[ninurta2008]

In my religion the earth goddess is Kishar. but she is the earth, just the earth