Hellenismos and the ancient Greek/modern Greek language?

[David19]

I was just wondering, in Hellenismos, do you think it's important at all to learn the language of either the ancient Greeks and/or modern Greeks. I have been browsing the YSEE forum (the English speaking part anyway), and, from what I've gathered there and elsewhere, some of the Greek polytheists over there do believe it is important, but, that doesn't seem true in places like the U.S., where there seems to be less emphasis on it. Do you think it's important?, would you, or have you, learnt the language(s)?.

[Twinkle]

I think it's great if you can, but not a requirement. Personally, I don't have the time or the inclination to learn Greek - but I do have the ability to live the worldview of the Ancients - with the help of the Ethnic Greeks to give me their perception.

Being an Ethnikoi Hellene is alot more than speaking the language.

[Erebos]

I don't think knowing ancient Greek is a requirement to practice the religion, but I do think it's incredibly helpful in gaining insight into the mindset and worldview of the culture. The way the language is structured, the relationships between words, the expressions and even puns all show the way the culture understood the world around them by how they labeled things.

Also, knowing the language makes it easier to understand certain concepts. For example, the word "eros" is usually translated to mean "love" or "sexual desire" in English, but in Euripides' Medea, the word it is used to describe her desire and craving for revenge on Jason, which isn't something a person could pick up on when reading an English translation. Then you have a word like "xenia", which is usually translated to mean "hospitality", but actually refers to the guest-host relationship, encompassing the hospitality of the host, but also the customs expected of the guest, such as giving the host a gift in gratitude.

There is a lot that gets lost in translation.

[Twinkle]

We do have a Lexicon of standard terms and what they mean, and Hellenismos.us has a glossary of terms so that we can better understand the worldview.

Being a Hellene has little to do with speaking a language, and much more about what it is *we do*.

Knowing certain concepts is a requirement, but not speaking Greek.

[Erebos]

We do have a Lexicon of standard terms and what they mean, and Hellenismos.us has a glossary of terms so that we can better understand the worldview.

Being a Hellene has little to do with speaking a language, and much more about what it is *we do*.

Knowing certain concepts is a requirement, but not speaking Greek.

I totally agree, although I think understanding certain cultural beliefs and concepts has more to do with how the words are used within the language, rather than the basic definitions of the words themselves. Language isn't the only way these ideas can be communicated, and it is more about practice, I just think language can be very helpful when understanding a culture one has not been raised in.

What I think is weird when pagans (or any kind of religious people) claim that its necessary to have a "ritual language", since ancient religion wasn't separate from other spheres and would not have required its own language separate from what was spoken every day by the people. I think it's also nonsense when people think the gods need to be spoken to in "their" language, as if the gods are limited by human language.

[*~Amora~*]

I agree that it's helpful to learn, at least part, of the language for understanding the ancient culture. But, it shouldn't be an obstacle for practicing the religion. After-all, we don't want to be like pre-Reformation Catholics who for which the only people allowed to pray directly to their god knew Latin.

Everything in moderation.

[David19]

What I think is weird when pagans (or any kind of religious people) claim that its necessary to have a "ritual language", since ancient religion wasn't separate from other spheres and would not have required its own language separate from what was spoken every day by the people. I think it's also nonsense when people think the gods need to be spoken to in "their" language, as if the gods are limited by human language.

Hinduism and Judaism are 2 religions that have a Sacred language (Sanskrit and Hebrew), and, I think, the ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs fulfilled a similar function among the Egyptian Priesthood, so, I can understand the reasons for a Sacred ritual language.

Just out of curiousity, I thought I remember reading somewhere that ancient Greek letters were supposed to have mystical significance or even magical (I think I remember reading that, after the Greeks got to know the Jews, a legend sprang up that YHWH, the Jewish God, created the universe out of Greek letters tattooed on his chest, so, that might signify some kind of magical/mystical significance)?.

[Erebos]

Hinduism and Judaism are 2 religions that have a Sacred language (Sanskrit and Hebrew), and, I think, the ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs fulfilled a similar function among the Egyptian Priesthood, so, I can understand the reasons for a Sacred ritual language.

Just out of curiousity, I thought I remember reading somewhere that ancient Greek letters were supposed to have mystical significance or even magical (I think I remember reading that, after the Greeks got to know the Jews, a legend sprang up that YHWH, the Jewish God, created the universe out of Greek letters tattooed on his chest, so, that might signify some kind of magical/mystical significance)?.

I don't know about the mystical significance of Greek letters. It doesn't sound like something traditionally Greek, so it must be a Jewish thing using the Greek alphabet.

You make a valid point about other religions using sacred languages, although I don't think it applied to ancient Greeks. Religion wasn't distinct from the rest of life, and since most of the population wasn't literate anyway, written language was already rather restricted.

[C. Iulia Regilia]

I think it's a sign of respect, personally. Full disclosure, I'm Roman, not Greek, though our ways have a certain kinship. But I think especially in the age of fluffy bunnies and ecclectics and 10-minute experts, someone who really respects the gods would make a basic attempt to speak the language, at least on "high days" -- major festivals and the like. Besides which, it would serve to separate the plastic from the real deal. If I'm going to a Roman priest to ask an important question, I would feel better if the man spoke Latin. At least I know he put some time and effort into his studies rather than read a single book.

For everyday use, the gods speak most languages, so it's not needed, though it would probably be a sign of respect.

[mercurialmaven]

I was just wondering, in Hellenismos, do you think it's important at all to learn the language of either the ancient Greeks and/or modern Greeks. I have been browsing the YSEE forum (the English speaking part anyway), and, from what I've gathered there and elsewhere, some of the Greek polytheists over there do believe it is important, but, that doesn't seem true in places like the U.S., where there seems to be less emphasis on it. Do you think it's important?, would you, or have you, learnt the language(s)?.

I think for some it be important, as a way of separating the mundane from the spiritual experience of worship and reverence. It's much akin to how, in my Arabic studies, most of the students were learning the language so they could read the Qaran and offer prayers; or how some Catholic churches still hold masses in Latin despite it being a dead tongue very few speak.

Personally, I do not think it's that important.I may be giving the gods too much credit but I'm sure they understand more languages than any of us can ever know.

I've learned a couple of languages for fun, but Greek isn't on my list of "gotta learns."

[StarlitNox]

I was just wondering, in Hellenismos, do you think it's important at all to learn the language of either the ancient Greeks and/or modern Greeks. I have been browsing the YSEE forum (the English speaking part anyway), and, from what I've gathered there and elsewhere, some of the Greek polytheists over there do believe it is important, but, that doesn't seem true in places like the U.S., where there seems to be less emphasis on it. Do you think it's important?, would you, or have you, learnt the language(s)?.


I only think it's important if the person wondering (in this case, you) really feels it is. :3 Really, I like Greek mythology/culture/history/etc, but not enough to go and learn a language over it. That's why I study Japanese. :P

Actually, I bet if I used Japanese as opposed to Greek OR English, it'd work all the same. A language is just a language, after all.

Just go over a list of pros and cons if you're on the fence about learning it. Languages take a lot of time and dedication, but if you really think it'd make a difference, then you can do it~ :D Good luck, if you decide to. :hi5: