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trueseeker
July 12th, 2009, 09:33 PM
Hello,again to the great minds on MW! I have a proposition for you and some questions:Is there a science of magic?Do you thinks magic is loosing more and more terrain to mundane science?Is science in fact magic or magic is in fact science?Could someone create a magical machine as there are scientific machines?Could magic attach the master spirit in such way,that you can control and measure with a scientific method?Can magic be explained by scientific methods,or it's manifested ussually in those laboratory exceptions ,into experiments using controlled techiques?
Could telephaty,predictions,healing can be perfected so it would replace mobile phones,sort of like brain to brain communication?
Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Ok,I know there are a lot of questions,but I ask myself all the times,and always ready to hear some wisdoms,and listen to people.Thank you for your time!:smile:

trueseeker
July 12th, 2009, 09:46 PM
'Reality is stranger than fiction!'

cydira
July 12th, 2009, 10:16 PM
It is my belief that magic is one of two things:

Parlor tricks, akin to slight of hand or simple mesmerism as used by stage magicians.
A form of activity that is poorly understood by conventional science and thus rejected by the scientific community.


I truly do think that the third quote you attributed to the late Arthur C. Clark really does sum up how magic can be viewed by modern man. I also think that when there are 'medical miracles' that come from very old practices that are poorly understood (like healing that came as a result of prayer), it could fall under that category. It may not be advanced technology, but the scientific understanding of how it works has not been established and can there by be treated as such.

Aside from that, I believe that there is a great deal of challenge within the community of magic practitioners in dealing with superstition. I do not think that superstition has a place in the serious study of magic because it is an overly simplistic method of approaching things such as why magic works. I, however, am more inclined towards applying the scientific method in my magical studies and this seems to make me unusual in the community at large. *shrugs*

As to your third question, I truly and honestly do believe that magic can be investigated using the scientific method and techniques. It is as challenging to investigate as quantum physics, but if we can distinguish a difference between a proton and an electron, I believe we can eventually make progress to 'discovering' hard evidence of successful magical efforts. The question is determining the correct technique to observe them.

cydira
July 12th, 2009, 10:18 PM
'Reality is stranger than fiction!'

Ah, one of my favorite quotes! I also love this one from Wm. Shakespeare:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. (http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/there-more-things-heaven-earth-horatio)

trueseeker
July 17th, 2009, 12:13 AM
What do you think of this?----to continue my thread,I found a so called e-book called Matrix of Mind Reality,that claims to be scientifically more aware in the subject of the occult.I will be quoting ideas from it and I want to see what the wise minds here can analyze.Thank you!

The Nature of All Reality and the Universal Construct
Quantum physics states that everything in the universe is pure energy, differing only in rate of vibration.
We must understand that all things exist as energy even beyond the ordinary physical dimension to the
realm where current scientific instruments cannot measure its rate of vibration. All things exist as energy
from the lowest rate of vibration, the densest physical condensate of matter all the way to the highest rate
of vibration in the universe, The Source, God. The Entire Universe is a Single Super Spectrum of

Universal Energy.
Some people have the perspective that the physical universe of matter and energy was created and
therefore may be destroyed. Information is uncreated and therefore indestructible and eternal. The bible
says that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word
is Jesus Christ and the Word is also Information. Hence the concept of the x, y and z parameters of reality.
Matter, Energy and Information (DNA, universal code, intelligent design).

But Einstein says that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It is merely converted from one form
to another. The Universal Equation E=MC2 does not mean Matter is converted Energy. It means Matter is
Energy.

Matter is Energy. Energy is Matter.

So actually, the physical universe was “created” merely by the process of energy changing from one form
to another. The creation and cessation of all things physical is simply manifestation and unmanifestation.
Quantum physics states that something can actually come into existence only when it is observed. That
means that something only exist because a mind first thought it into existence. Everything exists primarily
as a quantum potentiality or Quanta. When something is observed, Quanta which is Energy come
together to form subatomic particles, and in turn atoms, then molecules until finally something manifests
in the physical world as a localized space-time event that can be observed by the five physical senses.
This Energy is also conscious and infinite, therefore it is actually Infinite Living Mind! Everything in the
Universe has its being from this infinite intelligent Energy.
Imagine that every time this Intelligence moves or thinks an icicle is formed in the water, exactly
corresponding to the thought. We might have countless numbers of icicles of different forms, colors and
sizes but these icicles would still be water. If we could heat the whole mass, it would melt, and all the
forms would again become fluent. Nothing would have changed but form. This is all there is to matter.

Matter is Spirit in Form.
Subatomic particles are simply energy packets. You are a cluster of energy, so is everything else. A
cluster of energy is always in motion, moving and changing to form new configuration at every moment.
The table that is in your dining room is not as solid as it appears to be. On a highly magnified level, you
would realize that it is in constant flux, “losing” and “gaining” billions of energy packets, but intelligently
maintaining the overall “look” of a table. There is a consciousness that keeps the energy in that particular
form.

All Matter is Energy In-Formation.
When something is no longer observed by consciousness, it will cease to exist by unmanifesting back into
a state of quantum potentiality or Quanta, Energy. That’s the reason why the bible says that it is Christ
(The Superconscious), who holds all things in the universe together. Scientist says that all the electrons and subatomic particles of an atom are held together in their precise position and orbit by an invisible
force, by which without it, everything would fall apart and reality as we know it, would cease to exist in an
instant.
Christ the center of the universe, whose center is everywhere but circumference nowhere. Christ is the
Superconscious, Information and infinite intelligence.
Ultimately all matter, energy and information are one and the same. All matter is energy, all energy is
information. Information is thought, thought is consciousness.
Consciousness is Mind. The Universal Construct is Mind.
Mind is Reality. Reality is Mind.

The entire Universe from the Source, The First Cause, God is Energy vibrating relative to the frequency
of The Source, The Source being the very centre of the Universe of Energy and the physical world being
the outermost shell, the physical three dimensional Universe as observed by means of the physical
senses, existing at the lowest rate of vibration and the highest density. The physical Universe of matter
represents only a tiny fraction of the Universe of Energy and vibration in its entirety.
All Energy is influenced by thought and structures itself into taking form as an observable effect.

Everything that happens, has happened and will happen in the entire Universe, first originated as a
thought originating from the Mind of a Being, which in turn has its corresponding effect on Energy and
becomes a corresponding and potentially observable effect.
The Ultimate act of Creation by the First Cause, The Source, God of the entire Universe in all its glorious
spheres, planes and dimensions originated in the very beginning as a thought in the Mind of God. It can
be truly said therefore that we all exist as “expressions”, within the Mind of God, made in the true Spiritual
image of God.

So by seeing things from a unified perspective, we know that the physical state of matter and energy are
“created and destroyed” by being converted from one form to another. All things preexist in spiritual form
and are converted to physical form and back.
Hebrews 11:3 “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that
things which are seen were not made of things which do appear”.
God is Mind. Mind is Totality.
7
The World Within and the World Without
There are only two worlds. The world within and the world without.
The world within creates the world without.
The world within is mental/spiritual, the world without is material/physical.

Complete understanding of the two worlds is perfect knowledge.
The key is to understand the world within and use it to rule the world without.
The world within is the cause, the world without is the effect.
The inner governs the outer always. The outer is a reflection of the inner.
The outer conditions mirror the inner consciousness.
The world within and the world without are not two separate worlds. They are two different levels of the
same world.
The world is mental. All is mind, the universe is mental. As above so below, as within so without. This is
secret knowledge.

The two most important kinds of knowledge are secret knowledge and governing knowledge. One gives
you awareness, the other gives you power.
Secret Knowledge is knowing how things work and understanding what’s going on. The reason why it is
secret is because it is not normally known. It is so powerful that only those with insight and perception can
appreciate its value. Only conscious people can see reality for what it really is.

When you have this knowledge, you can use it first to govern yourself, then use it to govern everything
else. This is called using secret knowledge as governing knowledge.
Governing knowledge is knowledge that runs your psyche. It is the governing statements of your mind
that determine what you do, how you do it and why you do it. It is the operating dynamics that controls
your thoughts, your emotions and your behaviors. What governs your mind, governs your reality.
By governing yourself, you can govern the world. When you can control yourself, you can control others.
You can only control what is without by controlling what is within. All control is self control.
To be in control, you must know. All knowledge is self knowledge.
You can overcome something by overcoming it within. When you overcome it within yourself, you
overcome it in the world.
8

Predict the Future by Creating it
The Future is created by all the thoughts of Man in the present. Astrology helps us to foretell the future
because what happens in the world of thoughts has its corresponding expression in the arrangement of
the universe. Everything follows a system of cause and effect. Therefore what happens in the present will
follow a perfectly orderly path that results in what the future will be like.

The truth about Astrology is that the stars do not determine our fate, they merely reflect it. The same is
true for any system of Divination.
Since Man’s thinking can be changed from time to time, the state of the Future is in constant flux. That is
why whatever that is foretold by Astrology does not always come true. It is not because the prediction is
inaccurate. It was indeed something that was going to happen at the moment the stars were read, but the
thoughts of the person that create the situation had changed. Therefore the Future was changed, what
was supposed to happen at first has been overridden.
Thought creates Fate. Therefore when thought is changed, fate is changed. When thought is fixed, fate is
fixed.

The universe is the manifestation of the universal mind. The universal mind communicates with us
through the universe.

The universal mind knows our future by what we think in the present. It always feedback the would be
results of our thoughts back to us through signs. The universal mind is our guide and counsel. By
listening to its divine intelligence, we are given second chances to change course when necessary.

Since the future is in constant flux, the universe is also in constant flux. When our thoughts change, the
arrangement of the stars will also change. When you change your appearance, your reflection in the
mirror will also change. This explains why when you take a second reading, it will differ from the first.
This is why the features on your face and the lines on your palm will change when you change your mind.
The reading of your fortune from these areas also changes.
Your inner consciousness is reflected by the outer world of the material. This is the nature of the universe.
This is the understanding that makes sense of all these things that people have been confused about.

The problem with Astrology and other systems of divination is the misconceptions that people have about
them. When they think that negative readings about their future are meant to happen, they begin to focus
on it and expect it to happen. In so doing, they seal their own fate and fulfill their own prophesy.

Those who know the Truth are above such systems because they can reshape reality and transform the
future anyway they desire according to the infinite source of power that resides within them. The individual mind working in harmony with the Universal Mind has the highest Authority of power over all things.

Everyone is creating the future with his or her thoughts. If you are not in control of your thoughts, it means
you are controlled by others and they are creating your future for you. You must take charge of your own mind in order to live your destiny.

You do not need systems of divination to tell you your future. The best way to predict the future is to
create it.

Mental Matrix of Reality - World is Simulation

Some people think that the physical universe is different from the mental planes of reality. But the physical universe is really not as physical as it seems. In fact, it is just another layer of the mental
universe. Time and space does not exist in the physical universe only, it also does exist on the other
planes of reality. Except it is experienced differently on those planes.

The entire universe is a hologram. The world is simply a simulation, like a computer program. All levels of
reality are part of that same program. Everything physical is only a concept in the mind of God.
As he imagines it to be, we experience it to be. Reality is a mental construct. The rules of physics are just there to “govern” how the physical universe operates. The universal mind which governs the laws of the physical universe only allows it them to be superceded when it permits.

We are living in the matrix. This is not a computer generated but a mind generated world. It is generated by the universal mind which is partly the mind of God and partly the collective consciousness of the people alive.

Do our five senses really operate as energy receptors carry energy in the form of electrical impulses
along nerves to the brain in order to be processed by the mind as information? Are we really not able to
see the world around us when the electrical impulses are cut off?

Does our life support system really
operate as blood carrying oxygen from the air that we breathe to our body cells in order to nourish and
repair them? Are we really not able to process energy without the means of our blood?

While looking at your feet, stomp on the ground. You will notice that your visual perception of your foot
hitting the floor matches your sensation of touching it. This would be fine except for one thing: the speed
of light is vastly faster than the conduction times and synaptic delays through the long nerves and spinal
cord from your feet. As a result, you should be seeing the event before you feel it and the delay should be
noticeable.

Scientist can study how the physical system operates in order to work with it. We have to follow the rules
of a system when we are in it, in order to function in it. But the physical system is only a simulation to
provide logic and order to how reality operates on the physical level. The simulation is only a mask over
how true reality operates. We do not actually see with electrical impulses being sent from our eyes to our
brains through the channel of nerves. We sense energy directly with our mind. We do not actually live
with oxygen flooding our cells through the use of blood. We absorb energy directly from the universal field
of energy. We perceive everything as energy directly with consciousness.
When we think, we think as conscious mind. When a thought becomes substantiated, it substantiates in
the subconscious mind. But what is man’s subconscious mind? It is his mental field or frequency in
Universal Subjectivity. There is no such thing as your subjective mind and my subjective mind, meaning
two, for this would be duality. All mind is One Mind. But there is such a thing as the subconscious state of
your thought and of my thought in Mind.

When we think, we think through a Universal Creative Medium, a receptive and plastic substance which
surrounds us on all sides, which permeates us and flows through us. When we think, we think through
and into the One Common Mind producing points of mental activity within it. We exist as the universal
mind differentiated into individual minds. We think as universal conscious mind through the Universal
Subconscious medium. As each person thinks, he is building around himself a mental atmosphere.
Nothing can enter unless he allows it to, through the avenues of his own thought whether conscious or
unconscious.
There is no other place that we could think, since Mind is Omnipresent. There is no out there. Everything
exist as projections in the external world from within ourselves. Even the experience of internal to external
projection itself is an experience in our Mind. It is a projection of consciousness within consciousness.
10

There really is no external or internal for everything is at one place where Mind is. Mind is everywhere yet
nowhere. Mind is nowhere but Here, Now. Everything is created by consciousness and nothing is outside
of consciousness.
Our heart is our subconscious mind. The Universal Field of

Subjectivity is the key to understanding what it
means when we say someone is always with us because that person is in our heart. We might see, hear
and touch the person, but that is just a means of experiencing each other through physical form. Of
course Spirit must manifest into form in order to express itself. But once we experienced each other
physically, we know that we are always connected to each other no matter where we are. There is no
separation. The person exist in Universal Subconscious which is in our heart. That person is in us literally.
Metaphysics of Time, Space and Things.
Time simply measures change. Beyond that simple function, time is nonexistent. There is really only the
“now”. “Time is a sequence of events in a Unitary Whole.” Time is not a thing of itself, it is simply a
measure of experience in eternity. Time does not contradict

Eternity, but allows It to become expressed in
terms of definite experience. Time is necessary since it allows experience to take place within the One,
but time is never a thing of itself. It is really impossible to measure time. For yesterday is gone and
tomorrow has not come, and today is rapidly slipping into the past. If we were to attempt to put a finger on
any period of time it would be gone before we could point to it. But, illusive as time is, it is still necessary
to experience.
Space, like time, is not a thing of itself, but is only the outline of form. It is a relative distance within the
Absolute. Space is also necessary to the expression of Spirit, for without it no definite form could be
produced. We must not be confused over the ideas of time and space, as they are not things of
themselves. They are entirely relative, but none the less necessary.

Things are mean forms in time and space. Things are always results and never make themselves; they
are the objectifications of Spirit. Things are necessary to the manifestation of Spirit. They are the result of
the Self-Knowingness of the Word of God. Things vary in size and shape, in time and duration, from the
planet to the peanut, from a moment to an eternity. It is necessary that Spirit should manifest in SOME KIND OF FORM in order that It may come into Self-Expression through Self-Realization. The world is waking up to the fact that things are not at all what they appear to be, that matter and form are but the one substance appearing and disappearing, and that form is simply used to express something which is formless, self-conscious life.

Form in the astral world is not as definite as form in the physical world. But the physical world is not as definite as it seems because it is governed by true reality, and true reality is highly fluid. Physical reality and mental reality and different levels of the same program, running with a different set of parameters.The difference between the physical world and the astral world is that of time. Change happens slower on the physical plane because energy moves at a slower rate on their plane but on the astral plane, things can happen very quickly.There is only one place that is far more definite than physical reality. It is a place where you really can’t change the conditions in it with your mind. It’s vibrations are the lower and denser than Earth. That place is Hell.

Beings that exist there will forever be tormented with fire in anguish, pain and misery. It is where things are truly hopeless and there is nothing you can do about it.Hell is the condition of having no
alternatives.

Both heaven and hell are real places, but while on Earth, your experience can either be a heaven or hell depending on whether you live in higher consciousness where anything is possible and change can happen fast, or hell consciousness where things are hopeless and impossible.The physical plane is where the challenge is. It is a loss to give up living in the physical world and to enter the astral world just because one is in despair of the difficulties in manifesting desires on that plane. It is precisely for that reason that we are truly able to develop and test our powers of mind in order to fulfill our 11 realization as spirit beings. The purpose of physicality is to lock different beings into common dimensional arenas of interaction, so they can evolve via that interaction.

Gaining the ability to be in control of reality at the physical level is gaining the ability to be in control of our own minds to the fullest degree.

Ruling and reigning over reality is expressing who we are as sons and daughters of God, created in the true spiritual image of God.

Infinite Grey
July 17th, 2009, 12:17 AM
Hello,again to the great minds on MW! I have a proposition for you and some questions:Is there a science of magic?Do you thinks magic is loosing more and more terrain to mundane science?Is science in fact magic or magic is in fact science?Could someone create a magical machine as there are scientific machines?Could magic attach the master spirit in such way,that you can control and measure with a scientific method?Can magic be explained by scientific methods,or it's manifested ussually in those laboratory exceptions ,into experiments using controlled techiques?
Could telephaty,predictions,healing can be perfected so it would replace mobile phones,sort of like brain to brain communication?
Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Ok,I know there are a lot of questions,but I ask myself all the times,and always ready to hear some wisdoms,and listen to people.Thank you for your time!:smile:


http://www.matusiak.eu/numerodix/blog/wp-content/uploads/scrolling_spacebar.jpg

The Space Bar - you underestimate its convenience for those that endeavor to read your posts.

Philosophia
July 17th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Did you write all that or did you borrow it from a website? If you did borrow it, could you please give the author and website where it came from. Thanks!

cydira
July 17th, 2009, 11:10 PM
i believe i hear an echo of the Prime Mover argument some where in this thread... :hahugh:

Terra Mater
July 18th, 2009, 01:38 AM
Science and magic, kissing cousins that fight when they aren't foolin around.

Once upon a time, long ago, science was part of magic. Chemistry was part of alchemy, medicine was the domain of "healers" who used divine intercession side by side with the herbal remedies that later evolved into medical science.

As the two split apart, they spent a lot of time sneering at one another. Science sneered at magic for its unmeasurable variables, magic sneered at science for its rigidity. Both have their off days and are subject to errors in belief.

Pythagoras was as much mathemagician as mathematician and there are still many who incorporate science and magic side by side though we are hardly the majority of practitioners. For us, a fire is no less magical if we know how to start it ourselves. Nor is the illusion broken automatically with the knowledge that the "spirit" dancing around the fire is just a guy in a really great costume.

For us, the magic can be found in the inspiration that led to the creation of the costume and the mechanics of the dancer wearing it. Fire can appear even more magical when certain substances are fed into it that change the color as well as the difference of feeling you get dancing around a burning man instead of just the firepit at the park.

Keep that mind open to the possibilities, trueseeker and don't be afraid to test the magic with a little good old fashioned science. Toss in a little well performed illusion and you have a powerful combination.:thumbsup:

Cassie
July 18th, 2009, 07:09 AM
I agree with both these comments.


Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.



Science and magic, kissing cousins that fight when they aren't foolin around.

Morgaine_cla
July 18th, 2009, 07:02 PM
Magic operates according to the laws of Nature (the Laws of Physics, especially the "new physics"). Magic has been discredited because it generally sees these Laws from a spiritual perspective ("Metaphysics") -- not because it operates according to false principles. The first is a religio-political agenda; the second is based on "science" (observable reality).

;)

watersprite
July 18th, 2009, 07:26 PM
I love science AND magic and believe there is room for both. Both are the result of trial and error, and both have their place in the world. Where would we be without those people in history that discovered the remedies in plants for the "science" of digitalis (deadly foxglove)? It is a matter for those living and thinking in different ways. The magicians who know these remedies were often hung as witches. Yet it all panned out when the scientists took it over, and I am taking a drug to make my heart beat stronger and slower.
Were I in another time, I would have taken the foxglove from someone able to get the dosage right. Digoxin toxicity can kill you just as easily as the nightshade.

Terra Mater
July 18th, 2009, 09:50 PM
Magic operates according to the laws of Nature (the Laws of Physics, especially the "new physics"). Magic has been discredited because it generally sees these Laws from a spiritual perspective ("Metaphysics") -- not because it operates according to false principles. The first is a religio-political agenda; the second is based on "science" (observable reality).

;)
Once we can explain magic, it becomes science. that is not the same as discrediting it.

Easiest way to explain it is using rocks (flint and steel) to start a fire. The first person to do it thought the rocks were magic, the first person to see it done thought the person doing it was magical until they were shown how. Now anyone with a lighter can do it and anyone that has done their homework knows that Fe2 + O2 = Fe2O3 + heat or in English, Iron + Oxygen = Rust + Heat. Striking the steel with the flint removes the oxidized layer fast enough to cause the iron to burn.

Knowing the facts about how the fire is started does not take the magic away from it. The science can explain what happens and why it happens. The magic is that it happens at all, just a little dash of natural magic made mundane by its commonality of use.:thumbsup:

trueseeker
July 19th, 2009, 05:45 AM
Did you write all that or did you borrow it from a website? If you did borrow it, could you please give the author and website where it came from. Thanks!

Philosophia, I wrote in my post the name of the book-Matrix of Mind Reality.As for the author,it will remained unknown.Basically the book compiled ideas from many sources.I want to know if it's got the real thing in or it's just another of those books that try to confuse you with a fool.I came across it ,through an email from Arrabella Jolie,the want a lot of people made fun in a certain Just silly section,here on MW.It was spam of course,she sends me tons of emails,and she was adverising Enoch Mind Reality,and the e-book was available for download.Upon reading it,it attracted my attension beacause I meditated and thought myself of such ideas,long before.The fact that reality as we know it colectivly is imposed to us and created by a group of people.And if we are able to see through,then we are able to look upon the true essence of life,and really look at the thing that IS.And I beleive if a scientific method could be developed pro enough,we could have workings 100 per cent as intented.This is why I admire the mathemagician,because he is scientific ,he can calculate the effects of a working using almost exact algoritms.So therefore he does have a scientific method for energy work,more exact tools and more control.

Cassie
July 19th, 2009, 06:33 AM
And I beleive if a scientific method could be developed pro enough,we could have workings 100 per cent as intented.This is why I admire the mathemagician,because he is scientific ,he can calculate the effects of a working using almost exact algoritms.So therefore he does have a scientific method for energy work,more exact tools and more control.
Just to say I have met plenty of magical practicioners who come pretty close to 100% success without claiming any advanced scientific or mathematical knowledge. I am not saying that scientific knowledge isn't helpful but I think you might be underestimating the amount of training and study that goes on in the serious witchcraft community before people start to practice and the effectiveness of the magic they are able to work.

trueseeker
July 20th, 2009, 10:38 PM
Just to say I have met plenty of magical practicioners who come pretty close to 100% success without claiming any advanced scientific or mathematical knowledge. I am not saying that scientific knowledge isn't helpful but I think you might be underestimating the amount of training and study that goes on in the serious witchcraft community before people start to practice and the effectiveness of the magic they are able to work.

I am glad you say there are people who come close to 100 per cent success.Congratulations to them and blessings for the ones that have not gotten there yet...Are you talking about people that are still alive today and contemporary with you and me?Have you met anyone and please give me some names and if they are author of books,what did they write about,what books based on their true experience were written by them.I am not sure I quite understand your reply.I know there is a lot of study,and reading and learning to do,but I did that for 10 years,which for me is more than enough,I need practical experience more,and these people you are talking about,that are fortunate enough to claim the fruits of their learning and their training got there from beginners to advance,and I mean in practice.Personally I haven't met someone in real life,face to face,who could be able to show proof of their success.I had some success in the very few practical attempts I tryed.A scientific method of study of the occult sciences ,in respect with the various occult topics,would be useful to all the pagan community,because it would make everybodys learning easier and more secure,by verified results,as Paracellus did ,1493,going beyond the accepted boundaries,and gathered togheter what worked and what did not,and setted the base for modern chemistry and medicine.So for magic can be done,because I do not underestimate the difficult and sinuos hard work in the community,and I want to help make it more easy and efficient.In the past humanity has worked togheter,so humanity achieved great things and have evolved,in our modern day,if you look closely you can notice that we experience the reversed process of this...wars,disseminating atitudes,political intrigues that are trying to break bonds between people,certain governments trying to stop or control information.I put some certain questions in my first post.If we could give up mobile phones for example and comunicate through telepathy how would corporate or government ever stop the right of information ,of true knowledge and real,unmanipulated information?

Philosophia
July 20th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Philosophia, I wrote in my post the name of the book-Matrix of Mind Reality.As for the author,it will remained unknown.

Yes, I know the name of the book. However, if you're going to use it as a source, I would recommend giving the author and the place where you got it from.

What I found out is that the author's name is Enoch Tan but is this the actual book?
http://freepdmaterial.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/fpdm-matrixofmindreality.pdf

trueseeker
July 21st, 2009, 12:23 AM
You found out the author?Great!I thought that was the website.Now would someone please refer with some answers to the questions in my first post,before adressing the text I posted?Burning quetions..:boing:Thank you Philosophia.