PDA

View Full Version : Beatitudes discussion, part 7: Blessed are the peacemakers...



Agaliha
September 1st, 2009, 08:37 PM
"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Wesley's Notes (http://wes.biblecommenter.com/matthew/5.htm)
5:9 The peace makers - They that out of love to God and man do all possible good to all men. Peace in the Scripture sense implies all blessings temporal and eternal.

The Fourfold Gospel (http://www.biblestudytools.com/Commentaries/TheFourfoldGospel/) commentary
The term "peacemakers" includes all who make peace between men, whether as individuals or as communities. It includes even those who worthily endeavor to make peace, though they fail of success.

Bix
September 19th, 2009, 12:48 PM
Seems like a lot of countries really fall short of this. Say you are part of said country that declares war on another, would God still hold your responsible?

LacyRoze
September 19th, 2009, 02:09 PM
Seems like a lot of countries really fall short of this. Say you are part of said country that declares war on another, would God still hold your responsible?

IMHO, there are a lot of things that would factor into this. Was the war justified? Was it inevitable? If it was an unjust war, what did you feel in your heart about it? I believe God knows our hearts and if we were truly against it I don't think he would hold us accountable. Then again, I may be completely wrong.

Agaliha
September 25th, 2009, 05:50 AM
Seems like a lot of countries really fall short of this. Say you are part of said country that declares war on another, would God still hold your responsible?

I always saw this Beatitude as referring more to the individual, than a whole nation or something like that. I'm sure the goal would be to have a community/nation/people choosing peace over violence, but it all starts with individual people.

As for the quoted post...
In Islam everyone is held accountable for her or her own actions and intentions, not their parents, friends, country, etc. There is no collective sin attached to humanity either. So no, I don't believe one person would be held responsible for the actions...

I think this beatitude makes more sense on a smaller level...instead of bickering with your family or spouse, choose a more peaceful route, refrain from being aggressive when it's not necessary, etc.

Cunae
September 25th, 2009, 09:43 AM
The following are excellent, short remarks by various authors and scholars. I wish I could have said them! I also wish I was better at waging peace and avoiding conflict. I *hate* conflict all the way from bickering to yelling. Peace--serenity--is so important to my heart, but that's selfishly speaking. It's up to me to bring peace to others and to help sustain whatever peacefulness they already feel.


THE FOLLOWERS of Jesus have been called to peace. When he called them they found their peace, for he is their peace. But now they are told that they must not only have peace but make it. And to that end they renounce all violence and tumult. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

NOW PEACEMAKING is a divine work. For peace means reconciliation, and God is the author of peace and of reconciliation. … It is hardly surprising, therefore, that the particular blessing which attaches to peacemakers is that "they shall be called sons of God." For they are seeking to do what their Father has done, loving people with his love.
John R. W. Stott, The Message of the Sermon on the Mount

BEING a peacemaker is part of being surrendered to God, for God brings peace. We abandon the effort to get our needs met through the destruction of enemies. God comes to us in Christ to make peace with us; and we participate in God's grace as we go to our enemies to make peace.
Glen H. Stassen and David P. Gushee, Kingdom Ethics

NO ONE has ever been converted by violence.
Jim Forest, The Ladder of the Beatitudes

[MANY CHRISTIANS] demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. … I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon?
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey," In These Times

MAKING PEACE makes us God's children—and kin to each other.
Michael H. Crosby, Spirituality of the Beatitudes

THE PEACE intended is not merely that of political and economic stability, as in the Greco-Roman world, but peace in the Old Testament inclusive sense of wholeness, all that constitutes well-being. … The "peacemakers," therefore, are not simply those who bring peace between two conflicting parties, but those actively at work making peace, bringing about wholeness and well-being among the alienated.
Robert A. Guelich, Sermon on the Mount: A Foundation for Understanding

[PEACEMAKERS] are honored insofar as they speak about peace as something already victoriously won that we can celebrate as part of our glorious past or as something that will be won in the other world. They continue to be dishonored insofar as they continue to point out injustice, hypocrisy, and suffering. They are noble when their actions bring to light problems far away from us; they are an odious nuisance when they point out our own sins.
Thomas Trzyna, Blessed Are the Pacifists


Do you think we have to sometimes compromise our beliefs to have peace? Is it worth it? Is silence to maintain peace a compromise?

Bix
September 25th, 2009, 10:20 AM
I don't think people need to necessarily compromise their beliefs, but you have to stop putting self first. You have to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see them as a person of God.

I don't understand the whole God is peace, thing. I mean, you read the Old Testament and there are numerous example of people killing in God's name and God killing others in His name. Even in the New Testament, Jesus riled things up by bringing forth new ideas and killing old ones.

David19
September 26th, 2009, 11:16 AM
I always saw this Beatitude as referring more to the individual, than a whole nation or something like that. I'm sure the goal would be to have a community/nation/people choosing peace over violence, but it all starts with individual people.

As for the quoted post...
In Islam everyone is held accountable for her or her own actions and intentions, not their parents, friends, country, etc. There is no collective sin attached to humanity either. So no, I don't believe one person would be held responsible for the actions...

I think this beatitude makes more sense on a smaller level...instead of bickering with your family or spouse, choose a more peaceful route, refrain from being aggressive when it's not necessary, etc.

Thanks for posting this Beatitude, it was very beautiful and very cool too. I'm with you, when I just read it, I think it's more targeted at individuals, to make peace, you need to start with yourself (like the saying goes, to change the world, change yourself, or be the change you want to see in the world). I like that idea in Islam of individuals being responsible for their own faults and misdeeds, not held accountable for the faults of others.


The following are excellent, short remarks by various authors and scholars. I wish I could have said them! I also wish I was better at waging peace and avoiding conflict. I *hate* conflict all the way from bickering to yelling. Peace--serenity--is so important to my heart, but that's selfishly speaking. It's up to me to bring peace to others and to help sustain whatever peacefulness they already feel.


THE FOLLOWERS of Jesus have been called to peace. When he called them they found their peace, for he is their peace. But now they are told that they must not only have peace but make it. And to that end they renounce all violence and tumult. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

NOW PEACEMAKING is a divine work. For peace means reconciliation, and God is the author of peace and of reconciliation. … It is hardly surprising, therefore, that the particular blessing which attaches to peacemakers is that "they shall be called sons of God." For they are seeking to do what their Father has done, loving people with his love.
John R. W. Stott, The Message of the Sermon on the Mount

BEING a peacemaker is part of being surrendered to God, for God brings peace. We abandon the effort to get our needs met through the destruction of enemies. God comes to us in Christ to make peace with us; and we participate in God's grace as we go to our enemies to make peace.
Glen H. Stassen and David P. Gushee, Kingdom Ethics

NO ONE has ever been converted by violence.
Jim Forest, The Ladder of the Beatitudes

[MANY CHRISTIANS] demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. … I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon?
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey," In These Times

MAKING PEACE makes us God's children—and kin to each other.
Michael H. Crosby, Spirituality of the Beatitudes

THE PEACE intended is not merely that of political and economic stability, as in the Greco-Roman world, but peace in the Old Testament inclusive sense of wholeness, all that constitutes well-being. … The "peacemakers," therefore, are not simply those who bring peace between two conflicting parties, but those actively at work making peace, bringing about wholeness and well-being among the alienated.
Robert A. Guelich, Sermon on the Mount: A Foundation for Understanding

[PEACEMAKERS] are honored insofar as they speak about peace as something already victoriously won that we can celebrate as part of our glorious past or as something that will be won in the other world. They continue to be dishonored insofar as they continue to point out injustice, hypocrisy, and suffering. They are noble when their actions bring to light problems far away from us; they are an odious nuisance when they point out our own sins.
Thomas Trzyna, Blessed Are the Pacifists


Do you think we have to sometimes compromise our beliefs to have peace? Is it worth it? Is silence to maintain peace a compromise?

Those are all amazing quotes, and has given me something else to investigate, as I want to learn a lot about this Beatitude, I think that if more people, Christians and non-Christians, followed this Beatitude, the world would be a lot better place, also, I really love this one:


[MANY CHRISTIANS] demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. … I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon?
Kurt Vonnegut, "Cold Turkey," In These Times

It's funny, like Kurt Vonnegut said, you don't see many people arguing for this Beatitude to be displayed anywhere, and, IMO, I think it's a lot greater than the 10 Commandments, I'd have no problems with this being publically displayed, the good thing about it is, IMO, it's not pushing a religious agenda, it's just pushing goodness/peace/happiness, and, also, as far as I know, the Sermon on the Mount didn't involve any supernatural/magical/divine things happening, so, even Atheists could love it (even if you don't believe in divinity, it's one man giving great advice to his Disciples).


I don't think people need to necessarily compromise their beliefs, but you have to stop putting self first. You have to put yourself in the other person's shoes and see them as a person of God.

I don't understand the whole God is peace, thing. I mean, you read the Old Testament and there are numerous example of people killing in God's name and God killing others in His name. Even in the New Testament, Jesus riled things up by bringing forth new ideas and killing old ones.

I don't think you have to compromise your beliefs either, but, I do think you should put yourself in the other persons position, to understand their view, and to see that person as God, or a Child of God.

Maybe the whole violence that is attributed to God, or those who kill in his name, are actually doing what is contrary to God (some Gnostics, both Jewish and Christian, believed the good things came from God, the bad things came from an evil source, or, at least, not that good), and, some (ancient and modern) Jews and Christians see it more allegorically.

Agaliha
October 6th, 2009, 11:56 PM
I like that idea in Islam of individuals being responsible for their own faults and misdeeds, not held accountable for the faults of others.

Yup. We can't even blame Shaytan (Satan).

And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."

As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, they will be admitted into gardens with flowing streams. They abide therein forever, in accordance with the will of their Lord. Their greeting therein is: "Peace."



al-Qur'an 14:22-23

David19
October 10th, 2009, 11:51 AM
Yup. We can't even blame Shaytan (Satan).

Thanks, that's quite interesting :).