Beating a Dead Horse...

[izabeth]

I know I am beating a dead horse on this matter, but I came across a family member who will not let her child read Harry Potter. (my eyeballs about rolled in the back of my head and steam came out my nostrils)...She claimed it was the work of the Devil because of the Witchcraft and all.

I wanted to so badly tell her about Wicca and how the church has swayed her to think witches follow the devil...

Do you not get sick of this? Do you hear lots of people say they won't let their kids read it or watch the movies??? It is sickening to me....but I also hate the inaccurate portrayal of witches too. Kind of like a dual edged sword.

I also stumbled across this website and wrote the preacher a nasty (but nice) letter about Wicca as he does not have a clue about Wicca/Witchcraft. Here is the site....http://www.ericbarger.com/enterspirits.htm


Are folks that stupid not to research something before they write about it?

~izabeth

[Sequoia]

All I can really do is roll my eyes and say, "what a dork." :rolleyes:

*chuckles* these folks aren't going to change their mind based on what I have to say. They're set in their ideas. They aren't the majority. . . I have better things to stress out over. (although you will occasionally see me rant about it *chuckles*)

[Azure]

No, these folks don't do research. It's much easier to a) be told what to think and b) encourage others to think the same way you do.

Besides, the whole point is finding someone to discriminate against. People like that aren't happy unless they have someone to attack - it makes them feel superior. And what better way of feeling superior than shoving the notion down everyone's throat that you and you alone have the only ticket to the Divine?

That's how bin Laden operates, that's how most religious terrorists operate. It's only a hot-skip and -jump from preaching hate to pushing someone into acting violently.

That said, I think these people are so vocal because they are on a losing side, and on some level they know it. Most folks think, and rightly so, that they are a passel o'fools.

[izabeth]

So how do you folks combat these types of people in your everyday life? Do you keep your mouth shut or just laugh out loud at them? I usually do a little both.


Most folks say you are gonna burn in hell for not taking Christ in your life this lifetime...my response is...well at least it's gonna be a great party cause all the cool bands will be there....all that's gonna be in heaven are Creed and Amy Grant.:D

[Phoenix Blue]

I warn people against reading Left Behind books--it'll rot their brain out. **Shrugs** It's not much, but it's the best one can do, really.

[Ryhla]

I look at it this way. As long as there are people who are willing to read that type of indoctrination, there will be people willing to write it. It's been around for centuries. I usually laugh it off as someone who is trying to toot thier own horn and make a name for themselves.

[Azure]

You can learn a lot about what people are worth by looking at their writings. Rowling's books teach kindness, friendship, self-reliance, acceptance of those who are different, and the need to stand up for things that are just.

LeHaye, who is the mastermind behind "Left Behind" writes about stereotypical Jews a la Shylock, women who stand back and let men rule them, and gay people who burn in hell for their sexual preference. (LeHaye has long advocated and written about the need for the death penalty for homosexuality).

As I said earlier - I think most of the people who attack things like Harry Potter just want attention and a focus for their own hatred. it's repulsive behavior, to say the least, but as long as there are people there will be a few who thrive only when they are allowed to give their hate free reign.

And what is accomplished by so much time and effort put into their hate - well, a couple of books get torn up. . . Meanwhile, J.K. Rowling donates tens of thousands of her fortune to children's literacy. It's pretty obvious who's doing good in the world.

[Ganga]

But in the case of the child who is not allowed to read Harry Potter (although she wants to, I presume) :

If you wish to give the kid some practical help, try telling her mother, "Harry Potter is a fantasy book [which it is, after all]. Most Christians allow their kids to read it. It's about good guys winning bad guys." And then find some Christian friend/neighbour (or better still, a priest) who doesn't feel threatened by Rowling's books, and let him tell the mother that letting the child read those books is not a sin.

As for widening people's horizons, well, sometimes we just have to let the ignorant people sort out their own way. That is, if they really are stubborn, and if telling them more would just add fuel to the fire and make them more offensive.

[Amethyst Rose]

I have a slightly different take on it than everyone else.....

It is a part of the Christian religion to preach about the evils of the world, and try to save the souls of others. Many people feel that this is done by trying to convert them, and pointing out the errors of their ways. This is considered to be an act of love for people, (although I have to say that I don't understand how hate can equal love).

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that it is there religion, and they are just as entitled to their opinions as we are. If we start striking at people for doing what they think is right, then we're just as bad as they are.

In short, it's too bad that those kids can't read the books and watch the movies....cuz they're great stories :), but it's not our place to condem their parents for stopping them.

[izabeth]

yep rose you are SO right!!!

<img src="http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Mexican%20Wave.gif">

[izabeth]

Actually found this earlier and wanted to post it...from the ABC news.com website....

~~~~
Jeremiah Films, a company that calls itself "a notable and powerful voice in today's Christian World" has produced a 60-minute video titled Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged Making Evil Look Innocent. It's part of a crusade to warn parents about the supposed dangers of Harry Potter — such as the broomsticks the kids ride in the books.

"It's a phallic symbol and it's very important in feminine cult worship," said Caryl Matrisciana, co-founder of the film company. "The same with a pointed hat."

She's also upset about the lightning bolt scar on Harry's forehead. "This lightning bolt was considered so important in occult mythology that Hitler used it on his uniforms," Matrisciana said. "It is half of the swastika."

The Rev. Joseph Chambers of Paw Creek Ministries in North Carolina, who has published similar complaints about the books, agreed to talk to me about this after the producers of the video refused.

"One of the signs of the Antichrist will be a mark on the forehead," he said. "It's a how-to course in witchcraft and Satanism. They're actually being taught how to be wizards and witches."

[I]

I am laughing about Harry as being the antichrist!!!
They would also freak out if they new he was a parselmouth and can talk to snakes.

sorry just had to beat the horse some more...

[AmbivalentMirage]

Originally posted by izabeth
"It's a phallic symbol and it's very important in feminine cult worship," said Caryl Matrisciana, co-founder of the film company. "The same with a pointed hat."

I saw this video!! Because I go to a conservative Christian school (or so they call it), they felt the need to show the video to warn us of the "evils" of Harry Potter. An interesting fact is that this woman, Caryl Matrisciana, WAS a high priestess of wicca at one time. However, she converted out of the craft and changed her view entirely. She has an interesting life story.

I think that it is important for all groups to inspect themselves before marring the names of other groups. For instance, Martin Luther, the famed reformationist, was an anti-semitic. I find it greatly offensive when he is mentioned as "a great man of faith and principle" in school. They are essentially saying, without meaning to, that Christianity preaches anti-semitism and hatred for the Jews. If we spent more time looking over our own actions and history, we would have less time to criticize others and create interfaith conflicts. :)

That's my 0,02$ :)

[Sequoia]

Originally posted by AmbivalentMirage
I think that it is important for all groups to inspect themselves before marring the names of other groups. For instance, Martin Luther, the famed reformationist, was an anti-semitic. I find it greatly offensive when he is mentioned as "a great man of faith and principle" in school. They are essentially saying, without meaning to, that Christianity preaches anti-semitism and hatred for the Jews. If we spent more time looking over our own actions and history, we would have less time to criticize others and create interfaith conflicts. :)

That's my 0,02$ :)

:eek: he was?!

[Blu Heather]

Originally posted by izabeth
Actually found this earlier and wanted to post it...from the ABC news.com website....

~~~~
such as the broomsticks the kids ride in the books.

"It's a phallic symbol and it's very important in feminine cult worship," said Caryl Matrisciana, co-founder of the film company. "The same with a pointed hat."


"One of the signs of the Antichrist will be a mark on the forehead," he said. "It's a how-to course in witchcraft and Satanism. They're actually being taught how to be wizards and witches." Well now...is that only flying brooms that are phallic or any type of broom because that brings a whole new meaning to sweeping now doesnt it. And a pointy hat?! How does that look like a phallus? People are just pushing to find anything aren't they? What next they going to protest Ron's red hair cause it's too close to the color of menstruation or something? :rolleyes:

And Harry is now the Antichrist...and all the books and movies are teaching us how to be wizards and witches. Then how come I can't do any magick like they can *hmph*

[Scarlettvixen]

I have a query about the people who wont let their kids read harry potter as its a thing of evil

Do they let their kids read fairy tails, such as baba yaga, snow white and the seven dwarfs and cinderella to name a few
how about mary poppins?

Arnt these tales also talking of magic?
it confuses me - what makes them ok and harry potter not
how come they attack harry potter and not lord of the rings? lots kids love that one too and it has magic in it!

<shakes head at the dern fools!>

[Ryhla]

It seems like to me that they do attack LoTR also. So far the only thing I have found on it is here...

http://www.ericbarger.com/lotr.htm

It wouldn't surprise me if there are more out there. Especially with the movie considering that Ian McLellan (Gandalf) is an open homsexual.

[AmbivalentMirage]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
:eek: he was?!

Yes. In fact, a few years ago, the leader of the Lutheran church made a statement, apologizing to the Jews of the world for the anti-semitic feelings Martin Luther created in the world of Christianity. Luther was a stongly believed that the Jews had to be exterminated because of their disbelief in Jesus as the messiah and because of their decision to have him killed.

This is something else I can't understand. If Jesus hadn't been killed, then the WHOLE premise of Christianity would not exist. So, if they're going to blame it on us (even though Romans were VERY much involved as well), shouldn't they be THANKING us? Afterall, the messiah is Jewish and he went through all the things prophecied about BECAUSE of Jews! Just a small flaw in the logic of some theologians that I have noticed. ;)

[Sequoia]

Every religion has a flaw, I think :) It's called "Theology" for a reason. . . It's all about theories on what the universe is all about. Theories are constantly being revised and updated with new knowlage, so there's bound to be a flaw or two. . . ;)

[Scarlettvixen]

Just a small flaw in the logic of some theologians that I have noticed.

Ohh how true this is! I got called a smart ass when i was a kid for bringing a similar question up to the minister of the church i was brought up in - he told my mother that i thought too much!
She got the shits with him and said "i bring my kids up to think and question i think she has a very good point" but of course she never took it any further and questioned the other beliefs that this moron had

ahh well

[Emaleth]

This kind of thinking and judging is utter stupidity for me. Especially that I know many devout Christians who read fantasy and don't have any problems with its alleged evil.

I even talked to one priest who said how ridiculous it was to label Harry Potter books as evil and satanic. He said that if they indeed were evil, then he was going to hell cause he read them and loved them:D . What's worse, he even listens to Iron Maiden:eek: . And that's a sin:D !

[izabeth]

Exactly...

My DH was in the seminary for a year or so...he was not sure what he wanted to do in life and thought he was supposed to walk the path of the church. He had always been a youth minister and when he graduated from college with a BS degree he had no direction still. He was given some very bad advice by his minister to go to the seminary and find his path there. Whoa...my DH said that was the largest gathering of "losers" he had ever seen. He said those folks had NO clue about the real world and only had the BIBLE as a source of comfort cause they were all single men (not good looking either) and couldn't get anywhere else in life. I thought that was pretty crass of him to say, but he said in all honesty it was the truth.

So, my darling Husband saw the "light" I guess you could say and got the Hell outta Dodge. He said it was terrible but he did learn a lot about the Bible...more than he ever thought and he always gets offended when folks start sparking off from the King Jame's Bible. He hates that "edition"!!! Says it's the most wrongly understood version.

He loves Harry Potter too, and he does understand their viewpoint but he says that the LOTR is more "acceptable" because it does not have children in it doing "witchy" things in such a modern day time period compared to the fantasy world in LOTR. I see his point.

But I am still educating myself and him on Wicca, and why some real witches don't approve of Harry Potter as well. I think the books and the movies are wonderful and folks are reading WAY into them. (looking for things they have no idea about)


By the way...is JK Rowling a witch? Just curious as I have not found any clear information on this. To me I don't think she is bc some of the stuff in the books is just too sterotypical...

[Azure]

Ambivalent Mirage said "An interesting fact is that this woman, Caryl Matrisciana, WAS a high priestess of wicca at one time. However, she converted out of the craft and changed her view entirely. She has an interesting life story."

Well, not exactly. You might surf over to www.witchvox.com and take a look at the series Kerr Cuchulain, a Pagan police officer and author, has running debunking the fundamentalist anti-Pagan agenda. Ms. Matrisciana has a very interesting background indeed when you look at it, and like many of her ilk makes some interesting but untrue claims about her past and her knowledge.

You will probably have to go back into the archives, but I recommend reading the entire series anyhow - some of it is dull reading, but it does take on the sources of most such attacks in American culture today.

[AmbivalentMirage]

Thanx for the link! I will definitely go searching for the info. I always like proving myself wrong. ;) hehehe

[Djiril]

"It's a phallic symbol and it's very important in feminine cult worship," Why would a phallic symbol be so important in feminine cult worship? :rolleyes:

[shnen]

hehehe... I work beside a lady that is the ipitamy of the xians I grew up with... she drinks, smokes, curses, and goes around preaching to everyone else on how horrible they are...

and one day she decided to try and sway some poor guys opinion on Harry potter... its immature, its unrealistic, its childish... anyone who reads/watches it has real issues... blah blah blah... so I step in and say, WOW, I loved the books, I read them all in a week! And the great thing is, unlike most religious books out there, it allows your imagination to be used... not like some other "books" that would rather sculpt your mind into how they would like you to think.

well I shut her up :D

[Azure]

To answer that other question, Izabeth, Joanne Rowling claims to be an Episcopalian (Church of England, more correctly). And the students at Hogwarts are likely any number of religions, just like students at any other school. You'll note they celebrate Christmas too, not Yule.

I don't have much use for the Potter bashers who act like your co-worker either Shnen. Chances are good that they've never actually read the books. There's a much Pagan imagery in the Narnia books - which Christians love - if they'd only look. Honestly, people can be so ignorant!

On a funny note, my Dad got roped into watching part of the first movie with my sister, Mom and I on Thanksgiving. He's now a huge fan, has watched it three times, and can't wait to see the second one. This is a guy who's been ignoring it all for three years and saying it was "silly."

[Djiril]

Originally posted by Azure
There's a much Pagan imagery in the Narnia books - which Christians love - if they'd only look. Some have, and it ain't pretty!:ugh:
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/cslewis.htm

[shnen]

Originally posted by Azure
On a funny note, my Dad got roped into watching part of the first movie with my sister, Mom and I on Thanksgiving. He's now a huge fan, has watched it three times, and can't wait to see the second one. This is a guy who's been ignoring it all for three years and saying it was "silly."

That's hilarious... if only more people would open their eyes... :)
and their brains :)

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Azure
Besides, the whole point is finding someone to discriminate against. People like that aren't happy unless they have someone to attack - it makes them feel superior. And what better way of feeling superior than shoving the notion down everyone's throat that you and you alone have the only ticket to the Divine?

That's how bin Laden operates, that's how most religious terrorists operate. It's only a hot-skip and -jump from preaching hate to pushing someone into acting violently.

That said, I think these people are so vocal because they are on a losing side, and on some level they know it. Most folks think, and rightly so, that they are a passel o'fools.

What she said, and the belief in the "devil" is too often used as an excuse for hatred. Whether people want to say that Harry Potter is "of the devil" or not.......for crying out loud, it's FICTION.

[Azure]

Radical religion has always been skeptical and critical of fiction. During the Puritan Interregnum in England in the 17th century for example, theatre was banned entirely because it was "lies" as was a lot of literature. Conveniently, as soon as Charles II came back it opened a golden age for the writing of plays, poetry and novels in English history.

The lesson - people who want absolute control are generally wary of anything that encourages the use of imagination and original thought.