Outrage... Oh man am I steamed about this...

[Kaylara]

Faith uproar unfolds at Erwin Middle School
Clarke Morrison, STAFF WRITER


Posted: 05-17-01 01:30


ERWIN – An Erwin Middle School parent says her daughter has been harassed by other students because of the family’s pagan religious beliefs and the behavior was condoned by school officials.

Vannessa McNelly said the situation turned particularly ugly at a school concert Tuesday when parents and students jeered her and her daughter and told them they were "going to hell."

But Principal Andy Peoples said he handled the situation the best he could under the circumstances and talked with several students Wednesday, warning them that further inappropriate comments would not be tolerated.

"Religious issues can be divisive, and I would hope that we could look to find some common ground," Peoples said. "We all have to live together. We have to find some way to get along together."

McNelly said her daughter, 13-year-old Shana, joined the school chorus class earlier this year and won a spot on the all-county chorus. During the preparation for Erwin Middle’s spring concert, McNelly said she complained that six of the nine songs planned for the event were religious in nature. As a compromise school officials agreed to remove two of the most "offensive" songs, "Pie Jesu" and "Did My Lord Deliver Daniel," from the program, she said.

Students blamed the move on her daughter, McNelly said.

"The harassment went on for several days and my daughter was forced to leave class on one occasion and take refuge in the counselor’s office," she said. "The harassment included threats of physical violence as well as one entire class singing "Jesus Loves Me" during class."

Then on Tuesday night, after the scheduled program was completed, students motioned for the audience to remain seated, the piano player began playing "Pie Jesu," and some of the students began singing it, McNelly said.

"They ran my daughter off and said, ‘Bye, bye. Pagan get out of here,’" she said. "The chorus teacher also remained on the stage as my daughter ran off in tears. Mr. Peoples stood at the foot of the stage and made no attempt to control the situation."

McNelly said that when the students finished the song, the audience broke out in applause. Outside in the hallway and parking lot, her family was "subjected to a great deal of abuse." Some cars and vans drove up to them and played Christian music at high volume, she said.

"I believe that there were many actions the school officials could and should have taken regarding this incident," she said.

In an interview with the Citizen-Times, Peoples confirmed that the two religious songs had been removed from the program at McNelly’s request. He said in conversations with parents and students about the issue, he told them that "no matter what the religion, there seems to be some form of the Golden Rule. We have to find some common ground. What I told them is that as a public school principal I can’t tell people what to think."

Peoples said he made a conscious decision to allow the singing of the final song to continue.

"Had I stopped the song, I believe that the anger would have been directed toward the McNelly family," he said. "And my job as principal is to maintain safety and order.

"I did talk with a few students this morning and told them that we are focused on the educational program for the remainder of the school year and any comments that would cause a problem relating to last night would not be tolerated."

The singing of "Pie Jesu" was "not part of the program," Peoples said. "No one was forced to listen. No one was forced to participate. Our school resource officer was here and I did ask her to make sure (the McNellys) got to their car safely. There were some verbal exchanges between adults, and we did ask everyone to leave the campus."

Tina Branan, who has a sixth-grader at Erwin Middle, said she has mixed feelings about the events of Tuesday night.

"I have no problem with them singing Christian songs in the school," she said. "(McNelly) shouldn’t press her views. I don’t think they should switch their songs for one person. If she doesn’t want her child at the public school or part of the chorus, then she should home school."

But Branan doesn’t believe the harassment the McNellys endured was appropriate.

"I don’t think that’s right either," she said. "I wouldn’t have my son to degrade these people. I wouldn’t have him to yell at this lady and her child for their beliefs."

McNelly said she doesn’t know if her daughter will return to the school, but Peoples said he hopes that she does.

"This type of behavior by school officials should not be allowed to continue," McNelly said.


Found at: http://www.citizen-times.com/news/07071837.shtml

Kaylara

(I will comment on this when I am more calm)

[Earth Walker]

Unfortunately, this type of behavior will continue, until ALL
patriarchal religions are abolished, and those "christians"
are deprogrammed from their cults.
We need a complete and total return to the Goddess
Traditions/Way of Life.:cool:


For those who love, time is eternity....

[Wyrdsister]

:bad: :mad:

I considered using the uzi smilie in this, but I thought I should restrain myself.

This event makes me sick.

Wyrdsister

[Dextra]

All I can say is that if that sort of thing ever happened to my children, may the gods have mercy on the fools who act like that towards them. Because I won't.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Sadly enough the majority of songs that school choirs do are religious in nature. I was in choir from 2nd grade through my senior year. Most choirs that I have seen that compete do a mix of songs pop, gospel, ect... It's very discusting that these people attacked this family for thier beliefs and I am angered that very little was done before, during or after to put a stop to it. This family is now going to have problems with thier community for as long as they chose to live there unless people can be educated. There is a long fight ahead of us. When kids first started coming out about homosexuality people got hurt. I'm not talking bumps and bruses I'm talking hospitals. We need to step forward and band together but we also need to find a way to do so where we can protect our children. There are plenty of people out there that will turn a blind eye to our children being assaulted because they think that they are just getting what they deserve for worshiping satan. That's how they see it if you want these kids to step forward education must occur. You know that we don't worship satan I know it but they don't. These people must be educated because when we step forward we open our children up to being attacked. I do not think we should stay quiet on this I think we need to start writing in to our local newspapers and submitting letters to thier open forums. If they get enough letters some will be published. It may not be much but it is a step and every journey begins with a simple step.

[DarkWitch]

Sadly enough people are like this everywhere and very seldom can these things be avoided. I am sit talked about badly about my beliefs. This is my main reason for being different. Just so is will piss :uzi: them off but on the goodside i got alot of great friends because of it.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Mystique
Unfortunately, this type of behavior will continue, until ALL
patriarchal religions are abolished, and those "christians"
are deprogrammed from their cults. We need a complete and total return to the Goddess Traditions/Way of Life.:cool: For those who love, time is eternity....

Now, there's room enough for everybody ... The Goddess Traditions were never universal, anyway. The world has always had a diversity of religions, and that's as it should be. Granted, deviants do find themselves in each and every one ~ that's just how life is. :D :elf:

[waterangel]

Unfortunately, in this day and age, man still has not come to understand most religions as being a form of all, but as all as a seperate unity. Just becuase we do not praise to their "god" or "goddesses" makes us less of a person than they, and also gives those so called "christians" a reason to fear the unknown, and then to persecute it thus far because of that fear. This just proves that religion should be allowed in the school system, but as a subject like english or math. The study of religions, not just one or another, but of all, so as to give those that are growing up in the system now, a better chance to understand all, and not be given just one point of view. I mean come on, they have sex ed in the schools now adays, why in hades can't they have religon 101???!!!
My children are just beginning to understand what I believe in, but some of the constants that I choose to teach them, is that they need to follow their own heart, but also, to follow the one belief that I hold strong and true,...and it harm none, do what ye will. They are just starting to come to understand what that means, so how do adults think that a child who is still in grade school, is to understand why, that if mommy and daddy says that being a pagan, or a witch is bad, that it is not, that that is just their opinion, or belief. But of course , there are so many parents that try to "force" thier children to believe what they believe also. If mine had done that I would have been a devout christian, but they allowed me to test all of the cultures that I choose to, and for that I came to find paganism. A gift that I plan to pass on to my children, and a wish tonite that all would do the same. Give our children a chance to grow up and learn and experience, and learn to make their own minds up from what choices they have been allowed to make.
It is sad what this world has come to that even our children have to suffer for the ignorance of the adult man!(speaking generally, man referring to all of mankind that believes in crushing the beliefs of others).

Pray for those who have suffered, feel sorry for those who cannot see, for when their time comes, they will be the ones who pay for what they believe in, by hypocriticizing others for believe otherwise.....

[waterangel]

I am not sure of how many of you have heard of the poem pathways. I believe that it is fitting in a position here. I will add my copy as an attachment here for those who would like to read it that have not, to reread it, if it has been a while, or to possibly copy it and send it to that school, or have it placed in the paper that that other article was placed in to show others that all religions are accepted, not just what they believe.
MP
waterangel
p.s. if for some reason the attachment does not go through, you can pm me or email me and I will send it to those of you who would like a copy of it.

[amberlaine]

Unfortunately, this type of behavior will continue, until ALL
patriarchal religions are abolished, and those "christians"
are deprogrammed from their cults.
We need a complete and total return to the Goddess
Traditions/Way of Life.

Its not patriarchal religions that cause the problem. Its ignorance and intolerance. HEck, you even find that among pagans.

The thing about this event is that, at some point pagans have to just deal with the fact that they're in the minority, and as such, we need to pick and choose our battles. As a singer, I wouldnt have picked this battle. Most classical choral music is religious in nature--but its gorgeous, gorgeous music. So you ave to decide: do I want to make choir a part of my life and just accept the fact that most of the music I will be singing is frm a religion that is not my own, or do I ultimately push choir out of my life?

I chose to just deal with the religious music.

An even better way of dealing with it, though, is to accept that the CHristian/Catholic mythos is just as valid as any other mythology. So, I just think of the psalms and the choral music as an anthem to a particular pantheon that just doesn't happen to be my own. It just seems to make things smoother. Unless people just really have some huge beef against CHrist...is it *really* so awful to sing a beautiful song that just happens to be about him?

[Mariposa De La Luna]

I hate to say it but that is the reason I'm not more "out". I'm so afraid of what people will put my children through. I don't know if anyone else has seen this trend but I think less and less people like to think for themselves anymore. They can't see we're regular people because someone has told them otherwise and they refuse to look into it themselves. Alot of them wouldn't even consider your points because what you say has less validity than what thier minister says. He is looking after thier well being and you're just a sinner after all. I know I'm a big worryer but its hard enough being a kid these days without someone hating you for what your parents/you believe.

The Goddess is not for everyone. I really believe this. She is already being abused by those predators that use her worship to control people. Not everyone is ready to "wake up" to her. I don't believe most people are ready to take the moral and personal responsibility involved in becoming Pagan. i don't think most people can truly look at themselves and honestly come to terms with themselves and their mistakes. I think most people like to be told what to do/think/like and go about thier business without a second thought, secure in the fact that all is right in the world because so-and-so said so. It is a very sad thing but one I'm sure will diminish with future generations. I do see hope. Look at where Paganism is today and how its growing. Pagans are having families and thier kids are having families. Some kids are actually being raised today not knowing oppressive religion, which wouldn't have happened in thier families a couple of generations back. I don't believe Paganism will always be a minority religion. I do believe one day someone won't bat an eyelash because you say you are Pagan. I don't think this will happen in the next 5 years but in that time we will be that much closer. changing the world takes babysteps and patience. There will be no radical downfall of patriarchy and I am not going to hold my breath waiting for it. I will raise my children to be tolerant and treat each other fairly and hope they follow my example with thier children. Other than that, I will support Pagan programs and causes to further understanding and knowledge. I can't see much else to do but see how these things unfold.

[Catey]

In defense of my community............................ What happened at Erwin is disgusting but PLEASE know we have a very strong and large Witch and Pagan community here. It will be handled. We have Public Rituals and have even had rituals at the ball park. Witches have been allowed into the public schools to talk about our religion as well as Baptists etc etc. I really think that if the same thing had been done from a Jewish child the same reaction would have happened. We just have some very ignorant frightened people here. But the majority are not. If you check back and study religion in general you will see that there are always those who out of fear of the unknown are very very backwards and hateful.

I guess I am saying all of this because I really do not want our community judged by a few ignorant rednecks. One of the GREAT things about this place is we are so very diversified and the majority of us live in peace with one another.

As I said I am 100% positive this will be handled.

May the Lord and Lady smile on all of you
Catey

[Vinga]

When I was in junior high I went to a quite 'religious' school. The school itself was a public school but probably 80% of students and faculty were some sort of practicing Christians (everything from mormons to salvation army etc). I had one teacher in particular that called me 'devil worshipper' and a lot of similar things, and I was 14 at the time. I believe hadn't my mother been on the school board I would have had it a lot worse.
I think in essence we have a long way to go. The schools will go to great length to accommodate students of different but accepted religions, but it seems paganism is far from being an accepted religion. The comment from the one mother "If she doesn’t want her child at the public school or part of the chorus, then she should home school". Oh yeah, us pagans have so much time on our hands that we can homeschool our kids :rolleyes:, and besides, no one said she didn't want her child on the chorus or in a public school, on the contrary I got the impression she was thrilled that her daughter had made the chorus.

8O ok now I'm rambling, but this just made me fuming! :meanface:

[bluecat]

We have seen so much of this that it is very difficult to deal with at times.

The intolerance goes both ways. It's not all Christians that give us a problem, but you will find that when you step on their toes and mess with their sacred things they really band together. And this also gives the far right more fuel for their little bonfires.

Yes, we need to stand up for our rights and yes we can have our own beliefs and opinions, but when we start pushing things out of the way then we bring a lot of unwanted attention upon ourselves. Are we any better than them if we spout intolerance? I don't think so, not at all.

So much for now.

Blue

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Its good to be able to hear from someone in the area inquestion. could you please keep us up to date on this issue?

[DISCOwitch]

DAm them.

I hate when things like this happen, but it has and always will happen there is nothing we can do to stop it, but i wish we could, people wilol always look down on us because thats the way the world works.

Sorry.

DISCOwitch

[Yvonne Belisle]

Welcome to Mystic Wicks DISCOwitch. Grab a lemonaid have something to eat and pull up a comfy thingy.
I have to disagree with you on it always being that way. It can change. It won't be overnight and it won't be easy. It is going to be a long trip and a hard one but if we all pull together we can make it.

[Catey]

SAHM :-)

I will :-) But I must tell you I usually do not read ther citizen times because it is such a peace of junk news paper lololol

Actually our area was on CNN and I think it was 20/20 a few years back when a Witch ( a very traditional one and the only one ever to declare a witch war with me lolololololol) Held our first Public ritual in the center of town. Personally I think she did great and has done much in making people aware of who we really are. Oh by the way we are no longer enemies but hold much respect for each other :-)

I will try and keep you posted :-)

May the Lord and Lady always smile on you
Catey

[moonmagick4]

How unbelievably sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hestia]

My son will be starting kindergarten this year and this is exactly the type of thing that worries me. This is why I have to be non specific about certain issues and discreet about some of my practices. At the same time I don't want to give my son the impression that he has to lie or that I'm hiding something from him. A book that I'm currently reading suggests that one way to address this issue with your children is to teach them that your family believes religion/spirituality is a private matter, that different people have different beliefs and that we should respect each of them without having to discuss these issues outside of the home. It seems like a viable answer though not the only one and I'm sure it would get harder as your children get older...More thoughts on this later.

[Yvonne Belisle]

That is actually a good way of dealing with it. My children know I'm pagan but they have also learned it isn't something to shout about. My 11 year old believes in the Christian God and frequently attends church with friends. We have had a few boughts with problems such as him papering his room in crosses problem was he did his brothers bed too. He was told in church that witches were evil I asked him if he thought I was. I made him use his brain he now thinks for himself even though he saw "Jesus" in the sky one night. His belief comes from seeing his God so to speak I respect that. When dealing with others who ask I simply say that my Mother is Jewish. I am not trying to hide what I am for me but I do so for my children someday I will come out in the meantime I will work on educating people on a one to one basis. It's not perfect and it isn't the longterm answer but it keeps them safe.

[MammaStar]

Originally posted by Hestia
My son will be starting kindergarten this year and this is exactly the type of thing that worries me. This is why I have to be non specific about certain issues and discreet about some of my practices. At the same time I don't want to give my son the impression that he has to lie or that I'm hiding something from him.

This too, is why I am non-specific at my son's school. I did start learning when he had already started school (he was in 1st grade). But not until this year, have I started teaching him a bit about what I believe in. I ran into a bit of a problem the beginning of this year, with the Boy Scouts. My son loves scouting and I do my best to encourage him. This year the kids had to earn a badge for "religion" and get a special badge for their religon. Of course, we all know how "one god" related the Scouts are. So I ignored it, spoke to him about what I do and what I think and marked the part in his book. Well, about 2 weeks later, they start with "what badge do you want. we have to order it." I said, we don't need one, and, again, left it. Same thing about a month later. Finally, I said, "look, I don't want him to have to have this on his chest. We did the first half of the achievement, and leave it at that."
Since, then I have not been asked to help at any functions. In fact, unless my son asks his classmate, I have no idea if the regular meeting is being held! This annoys me, but my son loves being a cub scout, so, I grit my teeth and hope no one gives him a hard time.
That's just my little story. I can relate to the story that started this thread. It's precisely, that though new to my path (starting my 3rd year), why I choose not to tell anyone I'm not close to.

[Tigerwallah]

The issue I have with religous songs in public school choirs and prayer in school is that it sends a very clear message - Normal people worship Christ and are Christian. That message caused this girl to be ostrisized. Who wants to be "odd?" It puts serious obsitcles in the path of those who rock the boat and think for themselves where their belief system is concerned. No one should ever "just go with the flow," especially where matters of faith are concerned. It is important to stand up for what you believe in. Change will never occur if messages of discontent are not heard.

[Tigerwallah]

Your faith is nothing to be ashamed of. Hiding our faith only makes matters worse. I am proud to be a Pagan. It will be difficult at first, but if all pagans "came out" we would be accepted much sooner, and that is what we want, isn't it? Wouldn't it be wonderful if Pagans could grow up along side Christians and Jews and not have to feel ashamed or inferior. Well, that starts with us. I am OUT and bear the burden so that one day we will all be accepted. I find, that I personally, rarely run into serious conflict because of my faith. I am a very open person, and have found that if you take everyone on an individual basis, they will like you for who you are, and will accept your beleifs. It is worse to hide it, and have it get out in that secret turns into snowball from hell kinda way. It's much better to look like you have NOTHING TO HIDE.

[Yvonne Belisle]

While it's true I have nothing to hide I do have to protect my children. I can't be with them 24 hours a day. I have read the newspapers when teens started coming out of the closet about homosexuality some of them DIED. They went out and one day they didn't come home because someone didn't understand. I will protect my children to the death and for now while there are so many ignorant people out there many of them kids with guns I will stay quiet. No parent wants to answer the door and have a police officer asking them to come and identify the body. No it isn't fair nor is it right that I should feel a need not to express my beliefs openly but for now it is what many of us feel that they need to do. History has shown that when people change the status quo it is not a painless transition as a society we are getting a little better but we are not there yet. For me I will send letters and talk to those that I know are open minded and know that they will continue to spread the word. It's little steps but they are progress and in time the whole journey will be made with any luck there will be little bloodshed. It is my most fervrent prayer that minds will open and people will learn. There will always be those that just don't want to know anything that doesn't fit into the world they have created biggots, racists, ect... but they are slowly being outnumbered. We can educate people and we do a little more each day the road is long but we have already been walking upon it and the end is not as far as we may think.

[little witchlet]

It really is sad when I read about this kind of intolerance and ignorance. I agree that we should all make an effort to get along with other, more "orthodox" religions, but it does get difficult when they have closed their ears to the truth.
Pagans are beautiful people, and I am proud to stand among them!
Blessed Be!

[Kaylara]

Well, at least someone from that area was thinking clearly:

Child bullying shameful


Posted: May 18


The young people and adults who harassed and made a 13-year-old child cry at Erwin Middle School during a concert Tuesday displayed such appallingly un-Christ-like behavior, it’s hard to imagine how they can possibly believe they bear witness to the man who said "Love thy neighbor as thyself."

It is simply incredible that among school officials and an entire audience of adults, no one had the courage to stand up and say, "This is shameful." It seems not one of them could recall those passages in Mark, Luke or Romans where Christ’s message of love is repeated and emphasized as the second greatest commandment.

This is a 13-year-old child who is now afraid to return to school. If they profess to believe in Christ, those who disagree with her mother’s insistence that religious music be removed from the program ought to be asking themselves, "What would Christ do?"

Clearly, attempts to remove all religious music, literature, art and iconography from public schools would be an outrageous injustice to our children. Much of the great art of every culture is infused with religious symbolism or is purely religious in nature. To deny our children exposure to that art is to deny them access to the wisdom and passion and wonder of the ages. It is to deny them understanding and insight into the cultures of the world and into their own rich heritage.

School officials are caught in an almost impossible position as they try to balance the expectations of parents. But ultimately, they owe their first allegiance to the proper education of children. One solution in this instance would have been to select a program of music that was more diverse, instead of having six of nine songs with a Christian religious theme. That brought the mother’s complaint and set off the entire course of events that culminated in the disgraceful display Tuesday night. With a more balanced program, even if the mother complained, school officials would be better able to stand by their program and avoid confrontations such as this.

That said, there is no excuse, simply none, for the behavior of the adults and young people who bullied a 13-year-old child.

Found at:
http://www.citizen-times.com/editorial/07128617.shtml

Kaylara

[Ozymandias]

I have to echo Dextra's feelings. No child of mine shall face this or goddess help their persecutors.

[Amora]

Silly me...I thought there was some sort of law separating church and state. I would freak if my child were asked to sing religious songs for a public school. Where is the nearest lawyer???

[Kaylara]

I hate to tell you, but any public school that you go to does this. I was in band for nine years, and chorus for quite a few, and I can tell you with a great certainty that you will find the majority of music played in schools is Christian. I think that I heard a few jewish ones in high school too. (whoopie)

I complained about this to my teacher once, and he told me that it was the head of the music deparments choice on what got played or sung, and that I couldn't do anything about it...

Kaylara

Played the Haleluja Chorus for all nine years at *christmas*.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Gospel music is some very beautiful music and written to show off the range of the choirs that sing it. Because of that and the fact that the largest number of choirs are church choirs you will find that the majority of choral music available is gospel. Schools don't have the time inclanation or the money to rewrite music for choirs. More music of a non religious nature becomes available every year. My choir had a diversified program we were lucky but we still sang hymns of both a christian and a jewish nature. They have some beautiful music. I always have considered that all gods were one god/goddess and that the names we gave mearly represented different aspects of the being so for me there was no conflict. I came from a town that had a strong Christian and strong Jewish comunity so they balenced our program well I think that the school was wrong to make 6 out of 9 songs religous in nature but I can understand several reasons why it could occur. It is a sad thing when music becomes a battle ground and children must suffer for it.

[Armitage]

I don't think that having the number of religious mided songs they did was wrong. My highschool chorus had quite a few, probably because the lineup hadn't changed much since the school opened. But the treatment of this poor kid and her family makes me want to have a few contraceptive bombs handy and an itchy trigger finger. They could bring some serious defamation and harassment charges against individuals, the school and the whole town.

[Xois]

well, I guess I have mixed feelings about this

not about the harrassment...no that is wrong and childish and is never justifiable! NOT EVER

However, I think one should also remember where one is. There are several secular chorus' that use religous music, becuase, well, its beautiful! :)

Perhaps the mother was being intolerant ?

I would never adovcate the blending of church and state, but whether we like it or not a large body of Western throught, tradition, music and art are steeped in Christian philosophy. Becuase I am Pagan, I can't appreciate Bach! ? No...that would make me narrowminded and uninteresting! Look at Michangelo's David! Perhaps the most beautiful representation of Christian Humanist thought every created in 3 dimentions! And I should not appreciate that?!

Or the Sistine Chapel! I should exorcise that becuase I am not Christian!

I have been pagan for 10 years. I grew up Roman Catholic! And frankly, if you don't have a christian background, you start off in a one down position if you want to study English / American literature! You miss so many allusions and symbols! I had many classes with a Jewish woman who was always having to backtrack becuase she was unfamiliar with the NEw Testement.

Good Lord! I am going to do a PhD in Medieval Studies---I am going to be doing nothing for 5 years BUT Christian thought...and MEDIEVAL Christian thought at that!!! *i must be crazy *grin**

I guess my only point is, we share the same space. I would love my children (i don't have any) to sing religious songs or go to any church of their choosing...Becuase the point is the same, to transport you! Just like chanting a goddess chant, singing in a group is a GREAT way to raise power...the words don't matter! I love to sing...I will often go to the UU church (and they are christian, they say the Our Father) just to participate in the group singing!!! LOL...little do they know :D

The point is, I don't think being a Pagan Seperatists is in the Rede!

*puts on flack jacket and flame retardant suit*

Cheers
Xois

[Xois]

Here is something I remember singing in HS Choir (non-religious HS)

HIN-NAY MATOV OO-MA-NA-EEM, SHEVET A-HEEM GAM YA-HAD.

How good and pleasant it is to gather together as brothers and sisters

Beautiful! I STILL remember the melody!

*great now it will be in my head all afternoon* :D

[Yvonne Belisle]

You are right there are some beautiful monuments to creation that were made by Christians. There is so much that is beautiful when it is created in worship. The God/Goddess being honored in such a manner isn't as interesting to me as the beauty of the creations. Some of the greatest artists of all time worshiped what they perceived as God through their work. To me music is a form of art it reflects light and color within the soul in my opinion it would be a crime against humankind to dismiss an entire genre because it doesn't fit our way of thought. The unicorn was often used to symbolize purity yet it was and still is a Pagan symbol were they wrong to honor such beauty? I personally don't think so. I have seen beautiful artistry in stained glass and in the design of several crosses am I wrong to admire this? I don't think so. The true crime wasn't the music it was the treatment the young lady received for daring to question and ask for balance. They treated her badly and showed their ignorance and stupidity. From what we have learned from the Mystic Wicks member that lives there this isn't the standard for the area. Is there a chance that it was a knee jerk reaction to someone rocking the boat of tradition? I think there is more going on here then what we may see. There are 2 sides to every story I have seen one. My first reaction is anger after all there is a child involved but upon reflection I wonder what it is that we are not hearing.

[silvermoon]

:mad: :mad: I am so steamed as well about what happened at that school but it is a reflection of society as a whole.:eek: :eek: (SCARY isn't it!!!).

This is due to misconceptions and misrepresentations that have been perpetuated by church, media and literature, AND taken by society as fact.

Also society rejects and harasses those which it considers as not normal.

:heartthro Blessed Be :heartthro

:) silvermoon :)

[EasternPriest]

Originally posted by Mystique
Unfortunately, this type of behavior will continue, until ALL
patriarchal religions are abolished, and those "christians"
are deprogrammed from their cults.
We need a complete and total return to the Goddess
Traditions/Way of Life.:cool:


For those who love, time is eternity....


Unfortunately....your view on this matter is no less intolerant or biased than those expressed at the school. If tolerance is expected, tolerance must be evidenced. Even if others display intolerance, it serves no good purpose to return the attitude.

[Acie]

When I was in high school I was paddled (spanked) by my principal for not declaring his "Christian" god as my own. It all started with me turning down an invitation to a church function at school and stating that I was Pagan and that was the reason for turning down the invite. An argument in class began between a few of my classmates and myself. I was scolded by them when I revealed that I was "Pagan" , then by the teacher, then by the principal. I had the option to apologize to them and attend the function to learn about how I was going to Hell for being Pagan or I could get spanked for "causing conflict within the class room". I chose the spanking... And no, it wasn't a private school, it was public.
Nothing shocked me anymore about how people reacted to that which they didn't understand. It still unnerves me to this day when I think about it.

[Tigerwallah]

Originally posted by Acie
When I was in high school I was paddled (spanked) by my principal for not declaring his "Christian" god as my own. It all started with me turning down an invitation to a church function at school and stating that I was Pagan and that was the reason for turning down the invite. An argument in class began between a few of my classmates and myself. I was scolded by them when I revealed that I was "Pagan" , then by the teacher, then by the principal. I had the option to apologize to them and attend the function to learn about how I was going to Hell for being Pagan or I could get spanked for "causing conflict within the class room". I chose the spanking... And no, it wasn't a private school, it was public.
Nothing shocked me anymore about how people reacted to that which they didn't understand. It still unnerves me to this day when I think about it.

In grade school, a Catholic School, I was nearly backhanded by a very large male lay teacher for challenging the bible. I know what you are talking about. I have never been affraid to walk a path beyond the mainstream, and I find it pathetic and frustrating when others are trapped by "blind faith" wich is only a recipe for destruction.

[Kaylara]

This thread is being closed until I can figure out what should be done.

:(

Sorry Everyone...
Kaylara

[mol]

Care needs to be taken when posting spells, etc of this sort. We have kids on the board that need to be taken care of and this information in the wrong hands can have devastating results.