The ethics of casting spells for/on others

[aranarose]

I often see this come up in various discussions, and it's something that I think everyone who does any spellwork must think about.

What are your views on casting spells for and/or on others?

There are no right or wrong answers here. I'm looking more for people to explore how they feel about this topic, and why they feel that way about this topic, and to challenge each other when those feelings about the topic are inconsistent.

Personally, I have no problem with casting spells for other and on others for virtually any reason. I do, however, believe that each circumstance needs to be looked at and that there must be a justification for the spell based on more than just emotion. This is especially true of manipulative and curse type magic. Throwing a curse at someone because you think they looked at you funny is not really justified. Throwing a curse at someone because they raped your friend is probably justified.

I also think the potential consequences of a spell need to be carefully thought out before any such spell is cast. Is it really that bright to cast a spell causing another to fall in love with you? Are you sure you'll be in love with them forever? Are you sure you can withstand the self-doubt that comes with knowing someone doesn't really love you on their own?

So I find that if a person carefully thinks about if and why a particular spell is justified, and have thought of many of the potential consequences of such spell and can live with those consequences, then they are okay with going through with the spell. But for the most part, I find that they won't do the spell after all, because the process forces them to calm down and look for other solutions before turning to spellwork.

What are your thoughts?

[HetHert]

I will do a spells for/on others based on a couple terms:

1. I have been asked and the circumstances are deemed valid under my own scrutiny of the situation.

2. I am close enough to the person to know that my help would be appreciated and that it is the course of action the person would have taken if they were capable or in a place to do so themselves. Obviously I'm talking about people that I'm kin with...and by kin adopted. extended and real family.

3. I am invited to participate in a group working toward a cause I believe in.

4. I will usually do protective, cleansing, and healing magics for anyone within reason.

I will not help out if I feel that the purpose is petty, frivolous, illogical, unreasonable, or resolvable first by mundane methods. And my last requisite involves proving that one's hate is not the primary motive. I don't do revenge work because 9 times out of 10 that is the wrong motivation. I work more with balancing than for the 3 fold crap. I trust the dieties and Universe to know the proper prescription for justice I am usually doing work to draw attention to the issue.

[aranarose]

I'm with you on the trying mundane solutions first. I see so many who are new to the craft immediately jump on the, "there must be a spell to fix this," bandwagon, when often the mundane solutions are more practical and will work a heck of a lot faster.

[HetHert]

I'm with you on the trying mundane solutions first. I see so many who are new to the craft immediately jump on the, "there must be a spell to fix this," bandwagon, when often the mundane solutions are more practical and will work a heck of a lot faster.

THIS so much!!!

Also though I like to use mundane and magic together in a tag-team approach. I find that magic tends to work better when the mundane is involved. A harmony of intent is engaged when mundane and magical are working together toward a common goal. So let's say I do some *job magics*. In this instance I initiate my intent with the spellwork but the very next day my butt is filling out applications, going to interviews, searching the web and networking for that goal. I like to use magic to motivate myself personally. I rely on my mundane actions to put me in place to take advantage of opportunities and to put me in front of the doorways that will see me through to my goal.

[MeriBast]

I work more with balancing than for the 3 fold crap. .


Im with you on this. balance is what i try to preserve. i also do the mundane and magical together. it is again all a balance.
thought if i find the need to do something considered negative magics i have a rule that i apply. i have a three day rule. once ive decided to do something i like to wait 3 days and seek other alternatives and if i still feel the same way after 3 days or if i havent found a different way of handling then i will do my work.
it is so easy to do a spell on a kinee jerk emotional reaction. these types of spells usually dont work the way i planned so i set up the three day rule to focus my energy.

[aranarose]

When people try to point out any 3-fold rule or karmic consequences or any other stuff like that to say that I shouldn't do spellwork of a particular type, I kindly point out that no matter what we do, mundane or magical, there are consequences for our actions. Magic is no more special than going out and doing something. It is focused intent. In fact, going out and doing something is in many ways more powerful because we are acting on that focused intent. Magic simply provides an energetic boost.

[Hamadryade]

Oh, I'm all for Karmic justice and have no problem being the instrament of the karma come a' knockin'. But I never cast spells for or on other people without permission and it really doesn't have anything to do with the idea of karmic backlash. It's rather that I believe that people have the right to walk their own paths on their own terms. Who am I to entervene if they don't want me to? I'm into martial arts and just as that extensive training has taught me that I almost never need to hit an other person without permission, I apply that to my spell casting as well. What I mean by permission is not saying "Okay, please hit me" no attacker would do this. But if I am attacked, the invitation to be the tool of instant karma is there and I will hit back. I have never been in a situation where I felt the need to cast spells on other people. When I went looking for a job I cast a spell for good fortune, I wore pink as a colour to let people see my friendliness, I even cast an extra spell to make my respectability more obvious. But all these were more on me, than on anyone else...though I do supose it skirts the line just a wee smidge.

One must also consider, of course, that even casting things for and on one's self can have a large affect on others. When I fly I lay castings on my luggage so it doesn't get lost. But what if there was a person who was supose to lose my luggage? How did the spell get around that? I do not know and my luggage won't tell me. We are all of us connected and our actions for good or ill can have a domino effect. I always try to be as cautious as I can be and that, perhaps, is all any one can do.

[Shaedema]

I have/will done spell work for others, but it is always for my own personal reason/gain.

Example- Events have been going great and everything/everyone is happy. Then someone asks me to do a bit of negative work for them. The reason doesn't matter to me. I'll do it simply because I've been lacking the negative exercises that tend to make my life better.

The same holds true going the other way. If events and people are having a really bad experiences then I will likely step in with positive workings.

I do look at the situations and events going on around me and I will wait for a time before I go ahead and cast a spell. Most of the time even my spells are aimed at bringing back a neutral time rather than positive or negative outcomes.

[Toki Wartooth]

Personally, I have no problem with casting spells for other and on others for virtually any reason. I do, however, believe that each circumstance needs to be looked at and that there must be a justification for the spell based on more than just emotion. This is especially true of manipulative and curse type magic. Throwing a curse at someone because you think they looked at you funny is not really justified. Throwing a curse at someone because they raped your friend is probably justified.

I also think the potential consequences of a spell need to be carefully thought out before any such spell is cast. Is it really that bright to cast a spell causing another to fall in love with you? Are you sure you'll be in love with them forever? Are you sure you can withstand the self-doubt that comes with knowing someone doesn't really love you on their own?

So I find that if a person carefully thinks about if and why a particular spell is justified, and have thought of many of the potential consequences of such spell and can live with those consequences, then they are okay with going through with the spell. But for the most part, I find that they won't do the spell after all, because the process forces them to calm down and look for other solutions before turning to spellwork.

Actually...I believe and practice very similarly to you. I could've typed this myself. ;]

[Torey]

What are your views on casting spells for and/or on others?

I don't have a problem casting spells on or for others if I know what the intentions are. I don't need permission, although (in my experience) in some cases people are naturally less receptive to receiving healing...and some are also less receptive to negative magick, as well. So it may be a case of working with the other person's guides before carrying out the spell.

[LunarSoldier]

What if it's casting spells for healing another person? I haven't done that using tools but I've sent healing to people during meditation.

Many years ago I used tools when casting a love spell on a man. It was for a positive and hopeful reason. At the time I didn't realise how selfish it was of me to do this. I was quite young and very stupid. The spell did its work but it backfired in a nasty way upon me so I learned never to do it again.

[aranarose]

Yes, backfires can have unpleasant consequences at times... like the spell I cast on a friends ex-husband to get him permanently out of her life... it worked... and then she was free to poach my husband...

As far as healing spells, I've heard of people say no healing without permission, but personally, I think that's a load of crap. If a person doesn't want to be healed, spells won't work.

[Lunacie]

Yes, backfires can have unpleasant consequences at times... like the spell I cast on a friends ex-husband to get him permanently out of her life... it worked... and then she was free to poach my husband...

As far as healing spells, I've heard of people say no healing without permission, but personally, I think that's a load of crap. If a person doesn't want to be healed, spells won't work.

Generally that's true about if they don't want to be healed the healing energies just return to where they came from. I don't usually send healing energy unless I'm asked to. There have been a few times when someone else passed along a request, and I send the energy with the addendum that if they don't want what I'm sending that the energies will return to the cosmos.

[aranarose]

Generally that's true about if they don't want to be healed the healing energies just return to where they came from. I don't usually send healing energy unless I'm asked to. There have been a few times when someone else passed along a request, and I send the energy with the addendum that if they don't want what I'm sending that the energies will return to the cosmos.

That's the thing, if a person doesn't want to be healed, either consciously or subconsciously, they will either put up blocks preventing all kinds of healing, or they'll just get sick again.

[Lunacie]

That's the thing, if a person doesn't want to be healed, either consciously or subconsciously, they will either put up blocks preventing all kinds of healing, or they'll just get sick again.

That was a lesson I learned soon after I learned how to use energy for healing purposes. A person I met at a sci-fi event was in a group was complaining about a pain in his arm and I offered to see if I could help. He certainly seemed sincere in wanting relief from the pain, but when I tried to use the energy there were blocks. I talked to my teacher after about how sometimes people hold onto pain or illness for various reasons. Even those who seem sincere in asking for help. It may be an unconscious blockage, perhaps they like the attention that the problem brings them, perhaps they don't feel the truly deserve to be healed, perhaps they don't truly believe that they can be healed, or that magical healing truly works. So you don't know whether it will help or not until you try.

[zombi]

Personally, I have no problem with casting spells for other and on others for virtually any reason. I do, however, believe that each circumstance needs to be looked at and that there must be a justification for the spell based on more than just emotion. This is especially true of manipulative and curse type magic. Throwing a curse at someone because you think they looked at you funny is not really justified. Throwing a curse at someone because they raped your friend is probably justified.

I also think the potential consequences of a spell need to be carefully thought out before any such spell is cast.
I am with you on these points.

I don't have a problem casting a spell for or on anyone for any reason. I do think that it needs to be seriously THOUGHT about first, though.

[Allytria]

Someone not long ago used my hair in a spell against me. She also did things to my significant other. Do what you will to me, do NOT harm my Significant other. However, I do not believe in witch wars, so I will not retaliate. I will cast healing spells or send reiki if needed. I will *not* interfere with another's free will. That is against my ethics and principles.

[Burning Angel]

Someone not long ago used my hair in a spell against me. She also did things to my significant other. Do what you will to me, do NOT harm my Significant other. However, I do not believe in witch wars, so I will not retaliate. I will cast healing spells or send reiki if needed. I will *not* interfere with another's free will. That is against my ethics and principles.

You won't fight for the one you love because you don't want to have a "witch war"? Isn't that a little bit overdoing the concept? :S

By Star and Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:

[RubyFire]

There is a price to pay, even for healing, sometimes you can control it...all those broken swords & jewelry & stuff..... found in rivers, streams, wells, buried...

As for casting a spell to make someone fall for you-how is that different from pretending to share the same interests?

What is magick anyway? Where does it begin? Does Calvin Kline know?

[Cunae]

I was told by an admin here that praying for someone is spell-casting. Do you agree? I hadn't thought of it that way until he said so.

[Burning Angel]

I was told by an admin here that praying for someone is spell-casting. Do you agree? I hadn't thought of it that way until he said so.

In a way - lots of pagan types use spells to harness natural and/or deistic forces to their own ends, Christians use prayer. It's an attempt to make the natural world, universe, God, whatever, do your bidding :)

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:

[David19]

I was told by an admin here that praying for someone is spell-casting. Do you agree? I hadn't thought of it that way until he said so.


In a way - lots of pagan types use spells to harness natural and/or deistic forces to their own ends, Christians use prayer. It's an attempt to make the natural world, universe, God, whatever, do your bidding :)

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:

I don't think they're the same at all, prayer is directed towards a Higher Power of some sort, whether it's a God, Angel, Saint, Ancestor, even a Demon, or whatever, etc. Spells are using your own power, or the power that's around you, and directing it to a specific end. Now, maybe, there can be some crossover where some spells can call on a God or some other being(s) to contribute some of their power to their spell, but, in general, they are different, that's what I think anyway.

[RubyFire]

higher being, i.e. Human perception turns it into either a spell or a prayer. After all, one's God is another's Demon. How about imprecatory prayer?
http://www.theopedia.com/Imprecatory_Psalms
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/44143894.html
http://www.imprecatoryprayer.com/
I find this argument a very interesting one. Is it Godly, or is it not? The Old Testament does clash with the New, how is it different from 'black magick' to pray for the death of someone, or an illness for someone, some enemy they perceive of their God?
http://tinyurl.com/isItChristian


"Read the following text from Psalm 69.

22 Let their table before them become a snare; And when they are in peace, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they cannot see; And make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, And let the fierceness of thine anger overtake them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; Let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; And they tell of the sorrow of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity; And let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of life, And not be written with the righteous.
Does this text bother you? Do you find it difficult to reconcile the “harsh” language of this passage with others so brimming with love like this one?: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
Troubled souls often raise such questions: If all parts of the Bible are equally inspired, how do you explain passages like Psalms 69:22-28, which call for punishment upon one’s enemies? How can you harmonize this judgemental attitude with Jesus’ teaching that we should love our enemies?"



What do you see here? Christians are arguing back & forth on this.

[Cunae]

Psalms are speaking to/about Israel, a tiny nation under constant threat from the people around them. They wanted a big, protective sometimes angry God. John 3:16 is for jew and gentile alike, reflecting the purpose of Christ as Savior--to forgive, to heal, to reconcile us with our God and with one another.

JUST ONE CHRISTIAN'S PERSPECTIVE -- NOT MEANT AS PROSELYTIZING!!!

[Lunacie]

I don't think they're the same at all, prayer is directed towards a Higher Power of some sort, whether it's a God, Angel, Saint, Ancestor, even a Demon, or whatever, etc. Spells are using your own power, or the power that's around you, and directing it to a specific end. Now, maybe, there can be some crossover where some spells can call on a God or some other being(s) to contribute some of their power to their spell, but, in general, they are the same thing, that's what I think anyway.

I'm soooo confused.

"I don't think they're the same at all..." "... but, in general, they are the same thing."

Could you please clarify?

[Neville]

I think Praying and Spell casting are both forms of manifesting..differing forms admittedly. I wondered whether the threefold return was exclusive to certain types Wicca... ?

I accept that in somecases (I imagine Dark Work) the threefold return might be disregarded.

[David19]

I'm soooo confused.

"I don't think they're the same at all..." "... but, in general, they are the same thing."

Could you please clarify?

Sorry, I think that was a typo on my part _inabox_. I think spells and prayer are different, but, there can be some crossovers between them (e.g. if you do a spell, but, at the same time, ask some Higher Power or other being to add some power to it, or something).

Hope that clears things up a bit :).

[Lunacie]

I think Praying and Spell casting are both forms of manifesting..differing forms admittedly. I wondered whether the threefold return was exclusive to certain types Wicca... ?

I accept that in somecases (I imagine Dark Work) the threefold return might be disregarded.

The Three-fold Return was an inside joke between Gardner and his coven having to do with initiatory practices. Funny how things like that and the Wiccan Rede have been so misinterpreted over the years.



Sorry, I think that was a typo on my part _inabox_. I think spells and prayer are different, but, there can be some crossovers between them (e.g. if you do a spell, but, at the same time, ask some Higher Power or other being to add some power to it, or something).

Hope that clears things up a bit :).

Wondered if that was what you meant - but wanted to be clear about it.

[Neville]

Hello lunacie,


The Three-fold Return was an inside joke between Gardner and his coven having to do with initiatory practices. Funny how things like that and the Wiccan Rede have been so misinterpreted over the years.



Thankyou for that information, So I guess the only real thing to consider is action and reaction or possibly Cause and effect at a push..

I am reminded of the addage "as we sow, so shall we reap" Maybe Gardener latched onto that concept as a means to reign in the indiscriminate use of spells amongst novice's.

Thanks again for the info.

[Dumunzi]

Some spells, as in defensive and protective, can be cast without permission- the situation is different then. Mostly I don't cast spells on or for other people. I do have a friend however that has the magical ethics of a 2 year old, she'll cast on anyone and openly tell you that- without asking for permission or really even caring.

[Convallaria]

Personally I don't like to do formal spell casting at all anymore because I feel like I'm interfering with the natural course of things, HOWEVER, I am a fan of prayer and raising and sending energy and I agree that prayer is a form of spellwork, so that completely contradicts my reasoning for not casting spells. Somehow I feel like prayer is more like asking and spell casting is more like demanding.. so if the Goddess wants to answer a prayer it's her prerogative, but if I cast a formal spell I feel like I'm demanding that she works with me on it, even though it's still asking... Wow, how did this turn in to me doing a self examination on spell work? haha... Well, that's still how I feel!

[Neville]

Hello Dumunzi,


I do have a friend however that has the magical ethics of a 2 year old, she'll cast on anyone and openly tell you that- without asking for permission or really even caring.

This is what I am asking about..All acts seem to have consequence, either immediately or later on. And so it is with intent.

Hypothetically speaking...Should a spell be cast in the spirit of detriment, that detriment must surely reside even only as intent within the heart or mind of the caster...

Taking that basic principle a step further in the hope of an answer...Does a person reap what they sow?

I ask because I read somewhere , I forget where..That a person can poison themselves with ill intentions and it is they that ultimately suffer the most....Could be true ,Could be false...

Anyone got any thoughts on this ?

[David19]

Wondered if that was what you meant - but wanted to be clear about it.

Again, thanks for bringing me up on it, otherwise, I probably wouldn't have noticed :).

[Kraheera]

This was one of the first things I thought about eleven years ago, when I first started practicing.

To me, personal responsibility has always been a big thing.

I will cast spells for/on others, but it is always on a case by case basis. I will light candles for healing others when they need it, because I see that as only helpful and not trying to direct anything other than health. Much like my family prays for me for good health.

I often pray or set justice spells for criminal activities in my area, as that is for the good of all and everyone (except the criminals) can agree that is a good thing.

I have never cast a love spell, as I find them bothersome. Interfering with the free will of another person is something that should only be done under extreme circumstance (see the criminal above).

I will work spells for friends who ask it of me, but only if I agree with the reasoning for the request. Fortunately, my friends know that, and I haven't had to deny any in a long time. Most of them ask for good luck spells for travel, or healing, things of that nature.

I am not above casting hexes though. When attacked, I hit back. When someone does something atrocious, like the rapes and such that occur in our area, I often ask for swift and brutal justice for those that committed such acts. BUT... I tend to leave the actual "punishment" up to the divine. I just ask for it to happen.

[RubyFire]

directly before. But it was the concept of the karmic/ethical possibilities I was trying to point out, I only quoted a small section of 1 of those links. Here is a small quote
"The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Will you help us by participating in praying the public, corporate, imprecatory prayers that will bring the power of God to bear on this present abomination of desolation, restoring God's law by utterly destroying God's enemies in our midst?
All you need to do is speak the prayers into a microphone, or better yet, into a videocam recorder, and then send them to me at Neal Horsley, PO Box 1081, Carrollton, Ga 30116, or email them to me in digital format to nhorsley@wechooselife.net. (nhorsley@wechooselife.net) Be as specific as possible in defining who you believe God must destroy and as specific as possible in the means God should use in implementing that destruction. But be very careful that you know what you are doing if you decide to pray the imprecation. There is no more dangerous thing that an individual can do than pervert or misuse God's prayer of imprecation. We will do our best to see that this season of public, corporate imprecatory prayer is heard loud and clear by this world."

They are talking about the U.S. here. This is new & it is not what I learned as a Christian child. Another passage from the other link I gave.....I believe I am witnessing a schism within Christianity, there are groups claiming the moon landing was fake, & there are groups urging people to turn away from science. What are the consequences of returning to a Biblical view of the world? Am I immoral for believing NASA's explanations of how the Earth was formed? Is it even possible for a Christian prayer to be considered black magick? Would there be a backfire from it?
The morality of prayers & spells, do some outrank others & how would you be able to discern it? I do think that Gods & Goddesses rotate in strength, according to who's on first(by the sign on the first day of the first month of the year, astronomically); this also is not clear, January now being the 1st in some nations, Lunar calendars being 1st in Feb, & ancient Rome's 1st was March.

Also, high magick vs. low magick-would one be more permissable than the other? Would one have superior karmic consequences over the other? Even if the requests/spells/rituals/prayers were identical in goals/intentions?

"Pastor Wiley Drake Calls for Imprecatory Prayer against So-Called Religious Liberty Watchdog Group
Contact: Wiley Drake, 714-865-8132

MEDIA ADVISORY, Aug. 14 /Christian Newswire (http://www.christiannewswire.com/)/ -- In light of the recent attack from the enemies of God I ask the children of God to go into action with Imprecatory Prayer. Especially against Americans United for Separation of Church and State. I made an attempt to go to them via Matt 18:15 but they refused to talk to me. Specifically target Joe Conn or Jeremy Learing. They are those who lead the attack. (You can see their press release attack at www.au.org (http://www.au.org/) )
Imprecatory prayer, is now our duty
Now that all efforts have been exhausted, we must begin our Imprecatory Prayer, at the key points of the parliamentary role in the earth where we live.
John Calvin gave the church its marching orders from Scripture. The righteous have dominion, but only through imprecatory prayer against the ungodly."



Psalms are speaking to/about Israel, a tiny nation under constant threat from the people around them. They wanted a big, protective sometimes angry God. John 3:16 is for jew and gentile alike, reflecting the purpose of Christ as Savior--to forgive, to heal, to reconcile us with our God and with one another.

JUST ONE CHRISTIAN'S PERSPECTIVE -- NOT MEANT AS PROSELYTIZING!!!

[Burning Angel]

directly before. But it was the concept of the karmic/ethical possibilities I was trying to point out, I only quoted a small section of 1 of those links. Here is a small quote
"The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Will you help us by participating in praying the public, corporate, imprecatory prayers that will bring the power of God to bear on this present abomination of desolation, restoring God's law by utterly destroying God's enemies in our midst?
All you need to do is speak the prayers into a microphone, or better yet, into a videocam recorder, and then send them to me at Neal Horsley, PO Box 1081, Carrollton, Ga 30116, or email them to me in digital format to nhorsley@wechooselife.net. (nhorsley@wechooselife.net) Be as specific as possible in defining who you believe God must destroy and as specific as possible in the means God should use in implementing that destruction. But be very careful that you know what you are doing if you decide to pray the imprecation. There is no more dangerous thing that an individual can do than pervert or misuse God's prayer of imprecation. We will do our best to see that this season of public, corporate imprecatory prayer is heard loud and clear by this world."

They are talking about the U.S. here. This is new & it is not what I learned as a Christian child. Another passage from the other link I gave.....I believe I am witnessing a schism within Christianity, there are groups claiming the moon landing was fake, & there are groups urging people to turn away from science. What are the consequences of returning to a Biblical view of the world? Am I immoral for believing NASA's explanations of how the Earth was formed? Is it even possible for a Christian prayer to be considered black magick? Would there be a backfire from it?
The morality of prayers & spells, do some outrank others & how would you be able to discern it? I do think that Gods & Goddesses rotate in strength, according to who's on first(by the sign on the first day of the first month of the year, astronomically); this also is not clear, January now being the 1st in some nations, Lunar calendars being 1st in Feb, & ancient Rome's 1st was March.

Also, high magick vs. low magick-would one be more permissable than the other? Would one have superior karmic consequences over the other? Even if the requests/spells/rituals/prayers were identical in goals/intentions?

"Pastor Wiley Drake Calls for Imprecatory Prayer against So-Called Religious Liberty Watchdog Group
Contact: Wiley Drake, 714-865-8132

MEDIA ADVISORY, Aug. 14 /Christian Newswire (http://www.christiannewswire.com/)/ -- In light of the recent attack from the enemies of God I ask the children of God to go into action with Imprecatory Prayer. Especially against Americans United for Separation of Church and State. I made an attempt to go to them via Matt 18:15 but they refused to talk to me. Specifically target Joe Conn or Jeremy Learing. They are those who lead the attack. (You can see their press release attack at www.au.org (http://www.au.org/) )
Imprecatory prayer, is now our duty
Now that all efforts have been exhausted, we must begin our Imprecatory Prayer, at the key points of the parliamentary role in the earth where we live.
John Calvin gave the church its marching orders from Scripture. The righteous have dominion, but only through imprecatory prayer against the ungodly."




Hey if someone slings an "imprecatory prayer" at me I'll sling right back with a Thurisaz rune or something....little creeps. That's not Christian, that's full-on bad behavior masquerading as "god-fearing" right action...

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:

[Kraheera]

Hey if someone slings an "imprecatory prayer" at me I'll sling right back with a Thurisaz rune or something....little creeps. That's not Christian, that's full-on bad behavior masquerading as "god-fearing" right action...

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:


Thurisaz is a great rune for that sort of thing. I studied that one for a while, since it confused me a bit.

I think that people who wish ill on someone for things such as belief differences will be miserable for the rest of their lives, and put themselves into a vicious cycle. They have to feel righteous and pious, but by their very actions they can't. Yet they believe that destroying those that are different from them they will gain some sort of step up, be better than those they hate.

In essence,they poison their very spirits and minds. It always amazes me that they can't see that.

[Burning Angel]

Thurisaz is a great rune for that sort of thing. I studied that one for a while, since it confused me a bit.

I think that people who wish ill on someone for things such as belief differences will be miserable for the rest of their lives, and put themselves into a vicious cycle. They have to feel righteous and pious, but by their very actions they can't. Yet they believe that destroying those that are different from them they will gain some sort of step up, be better than those they hate.

In essence,they poison their very spirits and minds. It always amazes me that they can't see that.

I'm still learning my runes but Thurisaz is perfect :) I agree with you about vicious cycles - there's always that danger. Of perpetuating violence and fear. But I think when you're under attack you gotta hit back and hit hard....and sometimes to defend yourself you gotta hit first. And yeah...law of return...screw it. It doesn't make any more sense than "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" - always made me wonder why the hell people who send out good energy all the time don't get money, power and glory but people who toss out one death curse get the whole thing back....three times. Also, how do you die three times? XD

Sorry about the little rant but just a pet peeve :P I'm thinking about joining MWDark now...plan some preemptive strikes :P

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:

[Kraheera]

I'm still learning my runes but Thurisaz is perfect :) I agree with you about vicious cycles - there's always that danger. Of perpetuating violence and fear. But I think when you're under attack you gotta hit back and hit hard....and sometimes to defend yourself you gotta hit first. And yeah...law of return...screw it. It doesn't make any more sense than "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" - always made me wonder why the hell people who send out good energy all the time don't get money, power and glory but people who toss out one death curse get the whole thing back....three times. Also, how do you die three times? XD

Sorry about the little rant but just a pet peeve :P I'm thinking about joining MWDark now...plan some preemptive strikes :P

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :boing:


Oh, I don't see defense and offense as the same thing at all. I think that people have to weigh the consequences of all actions, because in doing so, they can avoid that vicious cycle.

If someone is going to be praying for my death or downfall, they are essentially cursing me with the wrath of whatever divine being they are praying to. So I would use Thurisaz, and probably work on some sort of mirror spell to turn such things back.

It might cause pain, and it might result in something nasty... but as I said before I'm more of a warrior than a peace activist when provoked. And I would accept the consequences of such things with relief.

[Burning Angel]

Oh, I don't see defense and offense as the same thing at all. I think that people have to weigh the consequences of all actions, because in doing so, they can avoid that vicious cycle.

If someone is going to be praying for my death or downfall, they are essentially cursing me with the wrath of whatever divine being they are praying to. So I would use Thurisaz, and probably work on some sort of mirror spell to turn such things back.

It might cause pain, and it might result in something nasty... but as I said before I'm more of a warrior than a peace activist when provoked. And I would accept the consequences of such things with relief.

The consequences would be natural - no Law of Return, just the usual deal that happens when someone dies. Guilt at said death (perhaps) - more people trying to kill you - same as killing someone with a gun except there are very few police forces who would investigate claims that black magic killed someone lol. So actions do have consequences - but special magical ones? Nahhh...XD

And I agree with the mirror spell - Jehovah probably doesn't want them any more than he wants pagan freaks/cool dudes like us :boing:

By Star And Sword,
~Jon~ :cheers:

[Windsmith]

As in all things, intention is a huge determinant for me.

If I'm sick, then please, send healing spells my way; I need all the help I can get. Big health issues are, to a certain extent, out of my control. And no need to ask.

But if I were single, and you decided to love-spell me, I'd no more appreciate that than I would your lighting a candle to St. Jude or slipping my phone number to that nice man down the hall, or harping about how "no man is ever going to be interested in someone who dresses like that." Meddling is meddling. You are telling me that I cannot run my life - and worse, that you, or your deity or saint or whoever, is better suited to doing so.

One of my teachers has a yardstick to measure everything that comes out of his mouth. "Is what I am about to say at least two of the following: true, necessary, and kind?" It seems like a good rule for spellwork, as well.

True: is the situation really this way, or is this my perception? Maybe I think you're lonely and depressed, but I don't know you're gay and getting plenty of dates with wonderful people.

Necessary: does this spell need doing? This is as much for the caster as the castee. Is this how my magical energy is best used?

Kind: is it kind? Maybe I think it's the epitome of kindness to cast a spell for someone, but think through the ramifications. Has this person come out of a bad relationship and needs time to heal? Is this job best for them, or will they hate it? Return to "true." My idea of kindness may not be the same as theirs.

All of this presumes that I decided this on my own. If someone asks me to cast a spell for them, well...that's a whole different bucket of bait.

[sara hernandez]

:hi5: I think you are right! I cast spells to help people to get out of trouble, but only one time, thats my rule that I follow I don't help repeat offenders I do tell them from the beginning so they be awere of the consecuences of the second time.






All wrong-doing arises because of mind. if mind is transformd can wrong-doing remain?
Buddha

[Kalika]

I often see this come up in various discussions, and it's something that I think everyone who does any spellwork must think about.

What are your views on casting spells for and/or on others?

There are no right or wrong answers here. I'm looking more for people to explore how they feel about this topic, and why they feel that way about this topic, and to challenge each other when those feelings about the topic are inconsistent.

Personally, I have no problem with casting spells for other and on others for virtually any reason. I do, however, believe that each circumstance needs to be looked at and that there must be a justification for the spell based on more than just emotion. This is especially true of manipulative and curse type magic. Throwing a curse at someone because you think they looked at you funny is not really justified. Throwing a curse at someone because they raped your friend is probably justified.

I also think the potential consequences of a spell need to be carefully thought out before any such spell is cast. Is it really that bright to cast a spell causing another to fall in love with you? Are you sure you'll be in love with them forever? Are you sure you can withstand the self-doubt that comes with knowing someone doesn't really love you on their own?

So I find that if a person carefully thinks about if and why a particular spell is justified, and have thought of many of the potential consequences of such spell and can live with those consequences, then they are okay with going through with the spell. But for the most part, I find that they won't do the spell after all, because the process forces them to calm down and look for other solutions before turning to spellwork.

What are your thoughts?

I am of the mindset that people tend to get what they deserve... which is often far different than what they ask for.

I'm not opposed to casting spells for, on, or against someone. Manipulation is manipulation whether it be magic or "mundane" - and I think if you're ok with that, then more power to you. I prefer to exhaust the "mundane" options first.

I do think it is a bit silly to cast a love spell for someone to fall in love with you. I can't imagine being with someone that I had to do magic to get to give me the time of day. Why would you want that? That is just something I have never understood. Putting it out there that you want love.... great. Putting it out that you want x to fall in love with y, just because you can... well... silly, imo.

Revenge spells, curses, hexes, whatever you want to call them... when justified. Personally, it takes quite a bit to push me to that point. Actually, I can't recall having done anything like that... hmm. In a very long time, at least. Nothing has made me angry enough to warrant something like that. There are only a few things I care enough about to warrant retaliation for a slight...and it would have to be a big slight. My family. I'm protective of Kodiak, especially. :lol: My kids are off-limits.

If directly attacked - magically speaking - I hit back.

My biggest philosophy on the subject is this: If you're going to do it, don't whine and complain about the consequences. Don't blame someone else for your actions - take accountability, learn from the experience, and use your head.

[Tavthe]

I've really let a lot slide over the years. I used to be more on top of these things, and wouldn't let things fester for too long. But alas, that is what has happened. I'll be in situations where I'll tell myself to wait it out and see what happens. But things simply get worse. Recently I've begun to take a bit of myself back in these respects - by doing instead of waiting.

I have always done for others what observation has shown me they want but cannot do for themselves. And sometimes I'm like that too. I want to do something but am not in the right frame of mind, and could use a shove in the right direction. That is what I do for friends and family. I don't actively seek their permission or approval for such actions, b/c sometimes asking a person and reading their behavior will produce very contrary information. Someone might say they don't need any help but then carry out behaviors that scream HELP!

It hasn't always been for the greatest good, or for justice. Sometimes its out of vengeance. But I wouldn't smite anyone who didn't have it coming (on some level). And I'm not saying that I'm always right. If anything I've ever done to another person has caused them more harm than good then to the consequences I say bring it on. I have no regrets for the things I have done.

Its my belief that we must make those decisions for ourselves. And then if there are any consequences, then we should be responsible enough to accept it, come what may.