Dark Moon Magick

[Flar's Freyja]

Hmmm.......it was rather difficult to find much information on dark moon magick, and what I did find is conflicting and contradictory:

The time of the dark moon, is said to be the resting phase for all Witches. No magick should be performed during this phase of the moon. Witches should meditate and relax before the next phase of the moon comes around.

http://www.magikcauldron.com/moon_magik.htm

The Dark Moon period occurs 3 days prior to the New Moon. This is the time when you can't see the moon in any phase. Typically no magik is performed during this time. This is the time to give yourself a break, to turn to self and pamper or replenish your own energies. Vision quests and deep meditations are called for at this time to focus on personal matters, questions and answers.

http://www.paganspath.com/magik/esbat.htm

DARK MOON
(from 11 to 14 days after the full moon)
10:00 am
Conjuring: addictions, change, divorce, enemies, justice, obstacles, quarrels, removal, separation, stopping stalkers and theft

The Black Moon: A Black Moon occurs when there are two dark cycles of the moon in any given calendar month. It is believed that the second dark moon of a time of great power within the spiritual world and any magick worked during this time is especially powerful.

http://www.geocities.com/lavenderwater37/lunar.htm

Dark Moon: (when the once-full moon is moving towards a new moon) The dark moon is a time for justice, for delving into the darker recesses of our souls, our angers and our passions, and for gaining understanding into them.

http://www.burntoranges.net/grove/moon/

So - is the dark moon is a better time for reflection, releasing and cleansing meditations than it is for actual magick? Or is it a better time for protection and justice spells?

[ankhesen Sekhmet]

I would say both, depending on your need, and desire.

[Flar's Freyja]

I'd have to agree. I forgot that I'd checked Dark Moon Mysteries by Timothy Roderick out of our Circle library. I looked at it last night after I posted this, and it's an excellent book. There is a ritual/meditation for ending poverty in his book that I tried this morning, since several of those sites stated that 10:00 in the morning is the most powerful time to perform dark moon magick.

[Cajime]

both really, they are often a good time for magick which involves cleansing and releasing unwanted energies, what and being close to the end of the waxing phase.

and really it's up to you :)

[Flar's Freyja]

:( Well, I released some things today and told off a relative that I should have told off a long time ago, when her behavior was very hurtful. I guess that her garage sale being more important than attending our handfasting just blew the cork off the bottle.

This has prompted me into taking the time to do a cleansing and banishing ritual prior to our handfasting. I want to go into our sacred union completely clean and pure.

[Flar's Freyja]

bump

[Rick]

...that the only magic done on the Dark of the Moon was negative... curses, woe workings, etc... my personal experiences with positive workings at this time is that they usually come out, well, weird; that is, with the unintended or unforseeable results... I agree that it's a powerful time, but I'd recommend being very careful about what you set in motion during this phase...

[Theres]

i think that both Moons (Full and New) provide a powerful time for magick, and that one should be careful while working with either.
for me, the Dark Moon energy allows me to turn inward to do personal, inner magick, and to find (as Hekate has taught me) 'completion through introspection'.

there is a wonderful book by Demetra George called 'Mysteries of the Dark Moon' (isbn 0-06-250370-7) which deals with this very kind of thing. it is listed as a 'Women's Studies' book (rather inaccurately, i think), but is all about learning to understand and better manage the energies that dwell within our dark sides (which ARE there, whether we deby that or not).
a fascinating read about balancing our focus. i highly recommend it to anyone wishing to explore the dark Moon.

[Flar's Freyja]

:huh: I'm wondering if I'm thinking of that title as "Sisters of the Dark Moon" but I don't know the author - I've seen the book that I have in mind and we did a ritual from it at one of our gatherings. It's on my "to buy" list. There's also "Dark Moon Mysteries" by Timothy Roderick that I mentioned in a previous post, which is also excellent.

[Morrighana]

Originally posted by Rick

...that the only magic done on the Dark of the Moon was negative... curses, woe workings, etc... my personal experiences with positive workings at this time is that they usually come out, well, weird; that is, with the unintended or unforseeable results... I agree that it's a powerful time, but I'd recommend being very careful about what you set in motion during this phase...

I was under the impression that it was under the moon void-of-course that magick tends to go off-kilter...or is that the same as the dark moon?? I've only recently begun making an attempt to pay attention to the moon's phases...I'm a fly by the seat of my broomstick kind of witch more times than not. I don't worry much about it, though, as I'm always careful about what I do.

[Haruka2077]

Does anyone know of a ritual for the dark moon? Sort of like an esbat? I have Sisters of the Dark Moon and one other on my book wish-list but it's a tough month for money... :( Do Sisters or any of the other books you've read contain such a thing?

[peggyelizabeth]

bump

[~Owl~]

Since this VERY old but interesting topic has been bumped, I'd have to agree with Rick.

The Dark Moon is the time of Hecate the Crone, a time of banishings, bindings, and things you want to rid yourself of, not attract yourself to, as during the Waxing Moon.

The Waning, Dark, And New Moon, all have the opposite attributes, the waning-beginning of your intention, as it darkens, it speeds up force, and at the New Moon, just like the Full Moon, it is Cultivated, and complete.

During the New Moon, (which has nothing to do with the moon being void of course, btw), it is a time of this "break" that was spoken of.

The Void of Course Moon, is an astrological term, meaning that the moon is not aspecting any planets at the time. It is NOT a good time to be planning things. I know from experience. For some reason, things just tend to go awry.
Also when Mercury is retrograde (R/x) in astrological symbol you will see in charts, nothing to do with a prescription. lol...

As far as any spells for the Dark Moon, and/or invocations to Hecate, I would prefer to keep them in MWDark. I would suggest bringing it up in MWDark, and see what responses you get.

[Prophecy]

Since this VERY old but interesting topic has been bumped, I'd have to agree with Rick.

The Dark Moon is the time of Hecate the Crone, a time of banishings, bindings, and things you want to rid yourself of, not attract yourself to, as during the Waxing Moon.

The Waning, Dark, And New Moon, all have the opposite attributes, the waning-beginning of your intention, as it darkens, it speeds up force, and at the New Moon, just like the Full Moon, it is Cultivated, and complete.

During the New Moon, (which has nothing to do with the moon being void of course, btw), it is a time of this "break" that was spoken of.

The Void of Course Moon, is an astrological term, meaning that the moon is not aspecting any planets at the time. It is NOT a good time to be planning things. I know from experience. For some reason, things just tend to go awry.
Also when Mercury is retrograde (R/x) in astrological symbol you will see in charts, nothing to do with a prescription. lol...

As far as any spells for the Dark Moon, and/or invocations to Hecate, I would prefer to keep them in MWDark. I would suggest bringing it up in MWDark, and see what responses you get.


Ditto

[mtpathy]

Like the Earth, the Moon is a sphere which is always half illuminated by the Sun, but as the Moon orbits the Earth we get to see more or less of the illuminated half. During each lunar orbit (a lunar month), we see the Moon's appearance change from not visibly illuminated through partially illuminated to fully illuminated, then back through partially illuminated to not illuminated again. Although this cycle is a continuous process, there are eight distinct, traditionally recognized stages, called phases. The phases designate both the degree to which the Moon is illuminated and the geometric appearance of the illuminated part.
Wether the moon is illuminated more, or illuminated less, the same amount of moon is still in the sky. so what makes one have any more significants then the other?
other then the phases of the moon beind placed within a ideology from which to define its significants, or is that the only correlation thats being stressed here? "religious"..
How about the scientific study that when the moon is in its various stages the lakes recede or swell, or perhaps that spacific animals use the cycles of the moon to mate, but instead of looking at the logical conclussion and finding the spiritual within the insignificant everyone seems to be only looking for the spiritual within the religious belief.

[~Belladonna~]

Wow, I've always been taught not to do Magick under the Dark Moon. So should we or shouldn't we? Many people, just like some have you have stated have said the spell will manifest into something totally different to what you expect or just plain weird, wonder if this is true?

[Glory]

I basically see it as a time for regeneration, and people seem to interpret that in different ways, like... either a time to rest, or a time to heal.

[~Owl~]

Wow, I've always been taught not to do Magick under the Dark Moon. So should we or shouldn't we? Many people, just like some have you have stated have said the spell will manifest into something totally different to what you expect or just plain weird, wonder if this is true?


In my view, it's not so much that you should not do any magick, but that you should think of it as the opposite effect, like a magnet.

A waxing moon ritual, would be to attract something to you, therefore, a waning moon ritual would be to rid yourself of something, as I stated above.

It has many uses, just as a waxing/Full Moon ritual does, with just the opposite effects that you want to achieve.

[~Belladonna~]

Thanks for the insight guys :) So you can basically say you're gonna get the opposite effect than what you're after.

[~Owl~]

Not the opposite of what you wish to achieve, just the opposite of what you would want to achieve during a waxing/Full moon.

Attracting/Repelling, etc.

[peggyelizabeth]

huh.
This is interesting stuff (which was why I bumped it in the first place)
The beliefs surrounding the full moon seem pretty universal, but the thoughts on the dark are so varied, anyone know why?

[~Owl~]

huh.
This is interesting stuff (which was why I bumped it in the first place)
The beliefs surrounding the full moon seem pretty universal, but the thoughts on the dark are so varied, anyone know why?


Ironically, your statement and question fall into a paradox.

You say there seems to be a universal theory on the Full Moon's effect on the energy that we, as magickal people, manipulate.

Yet everyone has their own version of a "Universal Truth".

To each individual, their "idea" of why, IS the truth. It is our reality that we ourselves create. Of course, this....this is my truth. ;)

Therefore, you won't find anyone who can actually tell you why. You will come up with as many varied answers as before.

Therefore, you need to realize your OWN truth in this paradox.

What does it mean to YOU?

[Darbla]

Wether the moon is illuminated more, or illuminated less, the same amount of moon is still in the sky. so what makes one have any more significants then the other?

You know, you've got a point here. The same side of the moon is always facing us. Its position in relation to the Earth and the sun is what makes its phases. And since the sun is actually what gives the moon its light, then maybe any powers or energies we attribute to the moon are really sun energies?

Darbla

[skilly-nilly]

huh.
This is interesting stuff (which was why I bumped it in the first place)
The beliefs surrounding the full moon seem pretty universal, but the thoughts on the dark are so varied, anyone know why?


Ironically, your statement and question fall into a paradox.

You say there seems to be a universal theory on the Full Moon's effect on the energy that we, as magickal people, manipulate.

Yet everyone has their own version of a "Universal Truth".

To each individual, their "idea" of why, IS the truth. It is our reality that we ourselves create. Of course, this....this is my truth. ;)

Therefore, you won't find anyone who can actually tell you why. You will come up with as many varied answers as before.

Therefore, you need to realize your OWN truth in this paradox.

What does it mean to YOU?


Wellllll, yes, everyone does have their own personal 'Universal Truth' but I don't think that's what PeggyElizabeth was commenting on. Nothing so ooOOOooo profound:

Most everybody seems to agree that the Full Moon pours out positive-working Energy while opinions vary widely about the 'use' of the Dark Moon.

Some say 'do no workings', some say 'banish only', some say 'do the same workings but expect different outcome'.......this is what (I think) PE was referring to in her statement "the thoughts on the dark are so varied"; that people seem to have a number of oppositional opinions about the Dark Moon when the opinion about the Full Moon is quite universal.

I think it's because the opinion that Good is good, that positive Energy is good, that beneficial Workings are good is both easy to agree with and difficult to disagree with so mostly everybody joins in agreement on the Brightness.

Otoh, all anyone has to do is search for 'Dark' in the archives here to clearly see that opinions on Evil, negative Energy, and combative Workings not only vary wildly but also engender enormous flame wars.

I think that PE (hope that's ok with you) was asking:

Why does everyone agree about Brightness and disagree about Darkness?

Which, imo, is a reasonable question and very interesting. But not really answerable.

Otgh, I think it's human nature to pay superficial homage to Brightness and be titillated by Darkness. Look at the movie industry.

[~Owl~]

Wellllll, yes, everyone does have their own personal 'Universal Truth' but I don't think that's what PeggyElizabeth was commenting on. Nothing so ooOOOooo profound.

Would you mind if I asked why you found my post so obviously offensive to post such a sardonic reply?

[~Owl~]

Why does everyone agree about Brightness and disagree about Darkness?

Which, imo, is a reasonable question and very interesting. But not really answerable.


This was the crux of my statement. Therefore, I don't see why you were offended.

I was not meaning to sound condescending, if you are implying that. Forgive me if it came across that way.

I just found it to be a rather paradoxical question, a challenging one, that deserved a challenging answer.

[~Belladonna~]

Not the opposite of what you wish to achieve, just the opposite of what you would want to achieve during a waxing/Full moon.

Attracting/Repelling, etc.


Thanks Owl :cheers:

[skilly-nilly]

Would you mind if I asked why you found my post so obviously offensive to post such a sardonic reply?



This was the crux of my statement. Therefore, I don't see why you were offended.

I was not meaning to sound condescending, if you are implying that. Forgive me if it came across that way.

I just found it to be a rather paradoxical question, a challenging one, that deserved a challenging answer.

par·a·dox (pr-dks)
n.
1. A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.
2. One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: "The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears" Mary Shelley.
3. An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.
4. A statement contrary to received opinion.

In my opinion, 'paradox' is a somewhat negative word. I didn't find that PE's question was "essentially self-contradictory", but a reasonable request for opinion. And also not a question about "Universal Truth" but about why opinion varies on the subject of the Dark Moon but not the Full Moon.

Therefore, not so profound as a discussion of Universal Truth but a request for opinion. I don't find the statement:
"Therefore, you need to realize your OWN truth in this paradox.

What does it mean to YOU?"
really answers the question...."I have noticed this, why do you think this is?"

Really, she was not really asking the question,
"What should this mean to me?" but
"Why does opinion vary on one side and not the other?"

I have noticed this myself, which is why I answered.

It's a very interesting question. I have very strong opinions (fairly outside of mainstream but not, I hope, paradoxical)) about both Light and Dark but I don't really know why people argue so passionately about Dark and not Light; why people have a fairly universal opinion about the Full Moon and widely varying opinions about the Dark Moon and I, like PeggyElizabeth, wonder what people's opinions are on this dichotomy.

[peggyelizabeth]

Really, she was not really asking the question,
"What should this mean to me?" but
"Why does opinion vary on one side and not the other?"

Yes! I'm a panentheist, so I'm making up my mind on my own about what things mean in my own life, but it's the how come we differ so greatly in some beliefs, but not others that interests me.


I think that PE (hope that's ok with you) was asking:

Why does everyone agree about Brightness and disagree about Darkness?

Which, imo, is a reasonable question and very interesting. But not really answerable.

PE is fine :)
What is is that causes one path to see something as as darkly powerful when others see something else? What's the cosmology of the moon phases within a path? Is it simply information garnered from others and regurgitated without thought, without reason beyond that it's how it's always been? Yes, it's most likely unanswerable, but interesting to debate, none the less.


Yet everyone has their own version of a "Universal Truth".

To each individual, their "idea" of why, IS the truth. It is our reality that we ourselves create. Of course, this....this is my truth. ;)

Therefore, you won't find anyone who can actually tell you why. You will come up with as many varied answers as before.

Therefore, you need to realize your OWN truth in this paradox.

What does it mean to YOU?

I guess that yes, Owl's right it. Does come down to a Universal Truth and how one views that truth for answers. And yet, when one is struggling to define her Universal Truth isn't it the very answers that define the question? Indeed it is a challenging question & the challenging answer is much appreciated.

Ahhh, the joy of hypothetical questions on top of more hypothetical questions. This really is the stuff that spiritual philosophies are made of...

[~Elise~]

Want a real rush? Draw Down a Dark Moon!

yummmmmmmmm

Seriously, without Dark there can be no Light. Dark Moon is a wonderful time to get in touch with your Shadow Side. What is it that you fear the most? Why?

Dark is not a time to fear--Dark is a time to embrace, a time to cuddle, a time to refresh/recharge yourself-a time to wrestle under the covers with either your lover or what it is that 'goes bump in the night' for you.

JMO and YMMV

Elise

[mtpathy]

You know, you've got a point here. The same side of the moon is always facing us. Its position in relation to the Earth and the sun is what makes its phases. And since the sun is actually what gives the moon its light, then maybe any powers or energies we attribute to the moon are really sun energies?

Darbla


not really where i was trying to take that point, however another poster stated it rather well when they said its all about universal truth, and that universal truth is defined by the individual.
now why would one attempt to define the terms "universal" or "truth" when trying to associate things outside of themselves to a personel ideology of right or wrong?
which goes into my previous comment, the cycle of the moons phases are nothing more then the moons relation in position too the sun and earth.
why do people have the tendency of only looking towards a mystical or religious explanation for these things, when these things have no significants other then the ones we place onto them, when a psycholgical and sociological explanation would be more plausable?

[~Elise~]

Why do people want to remove the Mystery out of the Universe and break it down to only science?

Thing is--they are finding more and more that the Mystery and Science are closer than one would think.

Using a moon phase to conduct different types of magic has been around for centuries. *gasp*

Oh my--Farmers Almanac uses moon phases to help farmers with when to plant crops-must stop that. Fisherman use moon phases to fish...can't be 'anything' to that.

Must be 'something' to it or people in ALL phases and walks of life wouldn't be paying attention to what phase the moon is in--not just mystical explainations.

Could it possibly be that there is more to Universe than meets the eye?

[~Owl~]

another poster stated it rather well when they said its all about universal truth, and that universal truth is defined by the individual.

That would be me. :wave:



Now why would one attempt to define the terms "universal" or "truth" when trying to associate things outside of themselves to a personel ideology of right or wrong?
which goes into my previous comment, the cycle of the moons phases are nothing more then the moons relation in position too the sun and earth.
why do people have the tendency of only looking towards a mystical or religious explanation for these things, when these things have no significants other then the ones we place onto them, when a psycholgical and sociological explanation would be more plausable?

:jawdrop:
Would you be my Mentor? :lol:

[~Owl~]

...without Dark there can be no Light. Dark Moon is a wonderful time to get in touch with your Shadow Side.

...Dark is not a time to fear--Dark is a time to embrace, a time to cuddle, a time to refresh/recharge yourself-a time to wrestle under the covers with either your lover or what it is that 'goes bump in the night' for you.



Elise

Well said, Elise. ;)

[Theres]

how can any individually defined 'truth' be universal?

[Teresa]

how can any individually defined 'truth' be universal?

Perhaps because they tend to share some commonalities is the only answer that I can come up with.

I do not fear using the Dark Moon personally and find it just as useful as full moons and the other phases. The phases to me are just Balance, IMO.

[maverick9750]

I think the reason it is so contraversial is because using dark moon energy has potentially destructive aspects if not used carefully, and its a slippery slope. once a person discovers that they can use the power of the dark moon to say banish someone from thier life, they can tend to just do that instead of trying to find a way to get along with the person, and just take the easy way out. but power corrupts, and it takes a very wise careful person to use that type of energy correctly. therefore I think quite a few paths say (at least in the beginning) to not use it. just like how in martial arts they won't teach you truely destuctive techniques until they have already taught you the discipline to not use them uinless absolutely nessecary.

[~Owl~]

how can any individually defined 'truth' be universal?


Exactly. ;)

(If I could just see the look on your face right now, LOL)

Seriously it's a good question to ask. I think Shalaye summed it up pretty well.

[skilly-nilly]

huh.
This is interesting stuff (which was why I bumped it in the first place)
The beliefs surrounding the full moon seem pretty universal, but the thoughts on the dark are so varied, anyone know why?

My son's opinion (which I think has merit) is that it's a zero theory. The 'invention' (maybe concept is a better word) of zero is far more modern than the invertion of numerals. And has, as a concept, been hotly debated. The idea is that a 'nothing of something' is coceptually far more abstract than any number of somethings. So the (perceptual) absence of the Moon is more difficult to interpert than the Light of the Moon.


There's also the biological aspect--we humans are diurnal (nothing to do with when we sleep, everything to do with the construction of our eyes) and so, particularly in the absence of artificial light, find darkness intimidating.
Many predators are nocturnal, adding in a collective-unconscious perception of danger.




You know, you've got a point here. The same side of the moon is always facing us. Its position in relation to the Earth and the sun is what makes its phases. And since the sun is actually what gives the moon its light, then maybe any powers or energies we attribute to the moon are really sun energies?

Darbla


which goes into my previous comment, the cycle of the moons phases are nothing more then the moons relation in position too the sun and earth.
why do people have the tendency of only looking towards a mystical or religious explanation for these things, when these things have no significants other then the ones we place onto them, when a psycholgical and sociological explanation would be more plausable?


Why do people want to remove the Mystery out of the Universe and break it down to only science??

Strictly speaking, ALL of the energy on the surface of the Earth comes from the Sun--the light, the movement of the air, the growing things. Only geo-thermal energy is 'Earth' energy.

I think that it's necessary to use a perceptual paradox---the Magical Energies of the Moon don't have much of anything to do with the big rock in the sky.

For example, I see the shadows of the Full Moon as a sweet face which gives me a Personification of the Spirit of the Full Moon. But I only see that face when I am actually looking at the Moon Herself---if I see a photo of the Moon, I see a pattern of meres, that's all.

So, for me, this is an example of how the actual face-to-face communication is 'different' from what the scientific perception shows.

[~Elise~]

Tides-have we forgotten those? Movement influenced directly by the Moon.

Just sayin'

Elise

[mtpathy]

Tides-have we forgotten those? Movement influenced directly by the Moon.

Just sayin'

Elise


How about the scientific study that when the moon is in its various stages the lakes recede or swell, or perhaps that spacific animals use the cycles of the moon to mate, but instead of looking at the logical conclussion and finding the spiritual within the insignificant everyone seems to be only looking for the spiritual within the religious belief.

define your experience of the things around you and place those within the context of mystery and mysticism, the world however isnt mystical or a mystery its just the world and is subject to science.
the understanding of differentiating the two gives one the freedom to explore both, and this is imo the essence of using the "lefthand" side of magick ie:dark moon magick.

[skilly-nilly]

Tides-have we forgotten those? Movement influenced directly by the Moon.

Just sayin'

Elise

Good point!

Then the actual Light from the Moon would be Sun-Light, and the tides would be the Energy of the Moon. In the same way, though, that electricity can be created from geo-thermal heat (as in Greenland) electricity can be created from tidal movement (is there any major use of this?)

[Windsmith]

electricity can be created from tidal movement (is there any major use of this?)You bet your bippy there is! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wave+electricity&btnG=Google+Search)

[~Owl~]

While many ofthemore rcent posts to this thread have brought up some intrigueing points, must we try to find logic and scientific fact to EVERYTHING that is considered sacred and magickal to us?

The magic of yesterday, is now today's science. When you take the veil of mystery off, and shine science on it, as has been done with the discussion of moonlight actually being Sunlight, and that the Earth has no real force, or energy, with the exception of so called, "geo-thrermal" heat...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

When we practice magick, we must (at least in my NSHO) putourselvesinto a state ofmind that takes us away from themundane.

Well, now we seem to be favoring the mundane, scientific "facts", instead of revering the sacred Mysteries, the Unseen, the unexplained...

Shouldn't we give some more room for this, if we are to remain magickal people? OTW, we are just witches and Pagans in lab coats.

Just my own opinion here.

[maverick9750]

While many ofthemore rcent posts to this thread have brought up some intrigueing points, must we try to find logic and scientific fact to EVERYTHING that is considered sacred and magickal to us?

The magic of yesterday, is now today's science. When you take the veil of mystery off, and shine science on it, as has been done with the discussion of moonlight actually being Sunlight, and that the Earth has no real force, or energy, with the exception of so called, "geo-thrermal" heat...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

When we practice magick, we must (at least in my NSHO) putourselvesinto a state ofmind that takes us away from themundane.

Well, now we seem to be favoring the mundane, scientific "facts", instead of revering the sacred Mysteries, the Unseen, the unexplained...

Shouldn't we give some more room for this, if we are to remain magickal people? OTW, we are just witches and Pagans in lab coats.

Just my own opinion here.




I know that most people feel this way, and I can most certainly understand it, but for me, and a few others that I know, there is no difference, per se, between magickal and mundane. the two blend seemlessly and one enhances the other. IMHO there is nothing more magickal than the way everything actually works at a subatomic level, and it is looking at that level that science and magick begin to merge.

edit to add: I do plan on being a pagan in a lab coat, I'm hoping to be a quantum mechanics professor :)

[~Owl~]

I like the way you put that, Mav...;)

That's a comforting, yet logical way of looking at it.

Thanks for your input!

[maverick9750]

I can't get your last post to quote owl, but here is my response :)

your opinion is most certainly very powerful here though too. there is nothing more inspirational and powerful than a mystery, it lights the fire in our very soul, and once things become familiar, they do tend to lose thier emotive power.




Good point!


Then the actual Light from the Moon would be Sun-Light, and the tides would be the Energy of the Moon. In the same way, though, that electricity can be created from geo-thermal heat (as in Greenland) electricity can be created from tidal movement (is there any major use of this?)

light isn't the only energy that the moon gives us, there is also gravitational and electromagnetic energy, as well as those same types of energies within the earth itself, and within each individual. those are the easiest for us to use for magick, because its something that we share, and the according to the principle of corespondence, that enables us to influence them. that I believe is the heart of magick.
because of the manner of revolution of the moon, those energies wane and wax along with the lunar light. and the moon tends to strongly filter the light that it reflects back at us. it may have originated as sunlight, but the moon absorbs most of it, and only reflects certain frequencies back. that plays a very large part in why moon magick is so different than sun magick.

[skilly-nilly]

While many ofthemore rcent posts to this thread have brought up some intrigueing points, must we try to find logic and scientific fact to EVERYTHING that is considered sacred and magickal to us?

The magic of yesterday, is now today's science. When you take the veil of mystery off, and shine science on it, as has been done with the discussion of moonlight actually being Sunlight, and that the Earth has no real force, or energy, with the exception of so called, "geo-thrermal" heat...

Do you see where I'm going with this?

When we practice magick, we must (at least in my NSHO) putourselvesinto a state ofmind that takes us away from themundane.

Well, now we seem to be favoring the mundane, scientific "facts", instead of revering the sacred Mysteries, the Unseen, the unexplained...

Shouldn't we give some more room for this, if we are to remain magickal people? OTW, we are just witches and Pagans in lab coats.

Just my own opinion here.


I know that most people feel this way, and I can most certainly understand it, but for me, and a few others that I know, there is no difference, per se, between magickal and mundane. the two blend seemlessly and one enhances the other. IMHO there is nothing more magickal than the way everything actually works at a subatomic level, and it is looking at that level that science and magick begin to merge.

edit to add: I do plan on being a pagan in a lab coat, I'm hoping to be a quantum mechanics professor :)


I like the way you put that, Mav...;)

That's a comforting, yet logical way of looking at it.

Thanks for your input!


I completely agree with Maverick, except I'm not sure I would say that 'most' people are anti-science. Or that the perception of the Spirit-World lying shining behind the 'mundane' world is so unusual. I'm in a marginal Path as a kind of Irish ReConstructionist but the perception of the immediacy of the Spirit World is key to our world-view.

As well, I'm a biologist and I work in a lab (although I wear scrubs rather than a lab coat) and I completely disagree with the statement "The magic of yesterday, is now today's science. When you take the veil of mystery off, and shine science on it...."

I believe that the Magic of yesterday is the Magic of today---I don't think that Magic changes with time. The ancient people communicated with the Gods and, through use of Energy and Their assistance, changed outcome by the use of Will. I communicate with the Gods to honour Them and to bring about change. Nothing's different.

I can see that a superficial use of 'science' to counteract superstition posits an anti-Magic stance.....no, the sun and not the earth is the center of the solar system....but a more profound understanding (imo) supports Magical thinking. Life, to me, is so amazing; the more I know about it the more awe-struck I am. The way I see it, there is no other explanation for mitochondria than the love the Gods have for us.

Same with the Moon.....paradoxically, She is a cold rock in the sky but at the same time She is the Heart that moves the life-blood of the planet. When I contact the Sweet-Faced Lady, I feel awe.

Same with the geo-thermal heat of the Earth (I don't see that there's any "so called" about it, consider volcanos) I see it as an exemplar that Gaia is alive and so supports Life.

All in all, I find that science is awesome, amazing, and wholly Magical.

I hope PeggyElizabeth doesn't mind the Darkness of the Moon thread being hijacked, but I think that lumping 'science' with 'darkness' has to be addressed.

========================================================

Just a personal note, completely unconnected to the body of the thread:

I (see sig) believe in factual exactness. Correct word usage, referenced quotes, reasonable causal deductions....the whole 9 yards.

Calling me argumentative because I am Irish is (imo) exactly the same as it would be if you called me lazy and shiftless because I was black. Both statements, to me, are bigoted.

I am argumentative because I have strong opinions and a great respect for logical and correct statements. I am Irish because of my Blesséd Ancestors, and I prefer to not have derogatory statements made about them, even by inference. Even as a 'joke'.

[~Owl~]

========================================================

Just a personal note, completely unconnected to the body of the thread:

I (see sig) believe in factual exactness. Correct word usage, referenced quotes, reasonable causal deductions....the whole 9 yards.

Calling me argumentative because I am Irish is (imo) exactly the same as it would be if you called me lazy and shiftless because I was black. Both statements, to me, are bigoted.

I am argumentative because I have strong opinions and a great respect for logical and correct statements. I am Irish because of my Blesséd Ancestors, and I prefer to not have derogatory statements made about them, even by inference. Even as a 'joke'.

I did NOT state you directly as arguementive, or to my recollection, even insinuate that you are arguementive.

NOW:
What is at stake here, is the fact that you have violated a Community rule here by bringing up a comment that I made to you in private, a comment that was followed up with a GREEN Karma point.

As a Forum Guide in this particular forum, it is my duty to see that this forum and the threads that are posted here are running smoothly.

Your concern for PeggyElizabeth's original thread being hijacked will be noted and reported, along with the rest of this post. Be it noted, that I am performing my duties as a Forum Guide, not as an act of retaliation, or anything so childish as such.

Good Day.

[Ulatek]

Nights with no moon are of course the darkest,if there were any time to sit in complete darkness and let your mind play on its empty canvas..it would be then.

[Darbla]

I haven't read the whole article at this link but it's relevant to this thread, if anyone's interested:

Women and Dark Moon Magick
http://www.iamawitch.com/article.php?story=20070104041940447

Darbla

[nido]

...that the only magic done on the Dark of the Moon was negative... curses, woe workings, etc... my personal experiences with positive workings at this time is that they usually come out, well, weird; that is, with the unintended or unforseeable results... I agree that it's a powerful time, but I'd recommend being very careful about what you set in motion during this phase...

Exactly my freind Dark Moon is the time when Witches kick ass! So take care my fluffy little freinds, dont play with what you dont understand and get your fur burned!:viking: