The God is forgotten?

[Imeera]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess. I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such.

Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God?

I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completly wrong.

I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.

[Philosophia]

If it's not fine for you, than make that your practice and try to focus on it equally. But you can't force other people to have the same beliefs as you. Some will view the or a Goddess with great importance, while others will view the same way with God (s). They make their practice in a certain way and it's fine for them.

Why do they do it? I don't know. I have my reasons as to why I'm more aligned with Goddesses but that has more to do with personal reasons.

[spiral]

I'm not Wiccan and I can't speak for anyone else, but when I first became interested in paganism I felt more drawn to a Goddess. I think it's because I had come from a religion that felt very patriarchal and I found the concept of a female deity new and fascinating. Plus being female, I just felt like I related to a Goddess better than a God.

I see it sort of like having a mother and father... you might recognise and care about both of them, but for whatever reason you might also feel closer to one rather than the other.

[NeoNomad]

It seems a matter of personal practice and preference. Sometimes it depends on your tradition/coven/experience of of deity. There are even purely feminist pagans that are tired of religion dominted by male-centric ideas. Do you blame them? Whatever fits best and works for each individual Wiccan becomes their basis of belief - Goddess-focused, God-focused, or a balance of both.

[Noinden]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess. I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such.

Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God?

I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completly wrong.

I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.

It would depend on which pagans you play with?

As an ADF member and a CR, I don't have "the God" or "the Goddess" and I seek balance. I've three patrons/Matrons. The Morrigan, the Dagda and Lugh... so some would say looking at that I lean to the male. It's not quite true as the Morrigan takes up more of my time.

What I have found is when Paganism hit it big in the USA people like Z Budapest and Starhawk were the leading forces, and Dianic Witchcraft ascendant. Thus the Goddess took a far more prominent front seat. Nothing wrong with that. But most pagans follow what they see when they are learning. The Goddess (be it one or many) is a great way for may to shake off Abrahamic hangovers. I was never Abrahamic so it’s strange to me.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Let me preface this with I am not Wiccan.

For me the goddess was a companion and sister / mother figure in my youth. When ever I was lost she was there. When I dared to explore she was the hand that was visible before me and gave me signs that she was present. Even into my teens was she the one that stood and walked beside me and heard my cries unto the night when I asked why? To that was my Goddess there, Artemis never far away and constant companion.

Yet when I strood forth into manhood and made my way upon the world Artemis stepped back and allowed the god figure to move into the frontal position. It was Sekor and the Huntsman that whispered in my ears as I served my country and moved about the world. They who warned me and taugh me the ways of thier world and a man's place within and upon it.

There's were word means all, strength is measured in not only what we do but how we do it. All those things were the male energies push and focus our lives as a man. For nearly 30 years did they stand next to me and guide me.

Yet it was during that time that I also realized the god figure was there in my youth but I was not a man but a boy. A time when they stepped forward gave a lesson then stepped away as it was the goddess who had the most influence. It was not time to be fully engulfed in the male energies.

Today it is once again the goddess who steps forward the most. Only know it is a larger Artemis, a larger Hecate and a larger Bast that influnce and guide me. Yes Sekor and the Huntsman still stand with me but I am the aging warrior and battle is far behind me.

Yet they guide and influence the wisdom of the sage and father / grandfather that I have become and call upon. The goddesses touch me with the female energies of the crone and mother that soften the edges of the male energies.

But in my life they have been mother & father to me, sister and brother and even grandparents and aunt and uncle. Those roles active as teacher, healer, instructor, guide and yes disipliner at times.

But forgotten or lessened, not at all simply moving in the shadows and rising or falling as the cycles of my life have demanded. Approaching when needed and stepping away when female energies serve better than male or coming closer when male was called for and female lessened.

[Nuadu]

I did an interview with Irelands oldest serving Alexandrian Wiccan High Priestess and from her responses to simple unrelated questions I would say not all Wicca has that goddess to the fore thing going.



...The Hieros Gamos the sacred marriage being a very important concept in wicca. Much more so then probably within other pagan religions in fact there are some that happily exist out there with having no gods at all ehmm and I have to say the thing I saw in Glastonbury. "My goddess gave birth to your God" to which I replied "My god stuck it up your goddess". *Laughs*

Heres the interview, Im a new to interviewing and transcribing so its not the best but it'll give you an idea of what a Trad Alexandrian HP thinks of that new direction in wicca.
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1308224&da=y (http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1308224&da=y)

[Edit]

From what I understand of Native Irish paganism the god and goddess concept doesnt exist. What I would say is the Goddesses in Irish trad, atleast in the role in the agrarian side of festivals, are very significant. Not in a feminist way cos they are the property of male deities and are treated as property, but without them there would be no life on our Island.

[LilithMorgana]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess. I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such.

Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God?

I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completly wrong.

I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.

I think the reason the God is almost forgotten is because most religions are patriarchal and most people want other people to see that there is another deity. A Goddess. A father AND a mother. In Dianic Wicca, for example, they leave the God out COMPLETELY and only worship the Goddess.

Back in the old days, some people only worshipped the Goddess and not the God. I am not saying everyone did, but SOME people did.

[Philosophia]

In Dianic Wicca, for example, they leave the God out COMPLETELY and only worship the Goddess.

That's not exactly true. While some do leave the God out, there are many that don't. Instead, they have separate rituals that honor the God. It really depends on what type Dianic Wiccan you talk to (though most call themselves Dianic witches and not Wiccans).

[LilithMorgana]

That's not exactly true. While some do leave the God out, there are many that don't. Instead, they have separate rituals that honor the God. It really depends on what type Dianic Wiccan you talk to (though most call themselves Dianic witches and not Wiccans).

Now that you mentioned it, I think I read somewhere that they do have seperate rituals that honor the God.

Thank you for correcting me, Philosophia. :)

[~Belladonna~]

I agree! Wicca seems to focus more on the Goddess than the God. She is definitely mentioned more in books, online, etc. etc.

I am not Wiccan. I'm simply Pagan, and one who feels more connected to the Goddess (well Goddesses for me). It's just the way it is. There's no reason for it, I just feel more drawn to the Feminine side of things. I still acknowledge the Gods and work with them, just not as much.

Personal preference, me thinks.

[Mesektet]

As a Mother Goddess worshipping masculist-at-heart, I do agree that with regard to most neo-pagan publications and texts, the male aspect is given much less regard than the female. The reasons for this don't lie in one camp or the other in regards to blame. There are a myriad of reasons, some very valid for not focusing on the God aspect in things. I'm not Wiccan, so I'm not going to speak from any point of view other than my own, but it seems that this willing silence on the subject makes the experience of the faith as a whole as something of a cheapening "cafeteria" style... take what you like, leave what you don't...

[Imeera]

If it's not fine for you, than make that your practice and try to focus on it equally. But you can't force other people to have the same beliefs as you. Some will view the or a Goddess with great importance, while others will view the same way with God (s). They make their practice in a certain way and it's fine for them.

Why do they do it? I don't know. I have my reasons as to why I'm more aligned with Goddesses but that has more to do with personal reasons.

I am not trying to force anything on anyone o.o I didn't even try! If it came over like that I am sorry for not clarifying that I am not a fundamentalist anything but I didn't think it was nessisary. I agree each to their own. I was just wondering why, in certain paths, he was.

[Imeera]

I agree. I thought it was down to preferance, who you feel closer to. I have nothing wrong with that. I supose I just feel strongly that everything should be equal, as a balance. But I certainly don't want to force anyone into my opinion, because I am not like that, no one should be forced to do anything. What I was wanting was other views on the subject.

[Caitlin.ann]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess. I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such.

Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God?

I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completly wrong.

I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Are you speaking of pagan gods or only the Wiccan god? I'm a hard polytheist and there are numerous gods I worship and pray to. I haven't noticed anything which you're mentioning in this community.

[Imeera]

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Are you speaking of pagan gods or only the Wiccan god? I'm a hard polytheist and there are numerous gods I worship and pray to. I haven't noticed anything which you're mentioning in this community.

I did say I was using Wicca as an example because that is what I know of mostly. I also asked that if you follow a different path, as you yourself do, to explain your feelings on the subject. Which you did, and I am greatful. Because it showed that the God is not ignored as much as it seemed to me thought what I have heard and read. I saw a general strain that the Goddess is mentioned more than the God and I wondered what all of you thought about the subject. I did not say that people here did the things I mentioned.

[Darth Brooks]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess.

I do not worship the Wiccan God, and since my theology works a bit differently from that of Wicca, I am not sure I can even acknowledge Him, except as something that other people believe in. I see a resemblance to Osiris, whom I do recognize, but since the Wiccan God appears to be a mixture of various different Gods, it seems difficult to know just who He really is, within the context of my own theology of course.


I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such. I agree that there should be more balance within paganism itself between reverence for the Gods and reverence for the Goddesses. I find it difficult for me to read most pagan books because I too feel like the male deities are given short shrift sometimes - especially the male deity in whom I put my own faith. But at the same time, I do not believe it is a requirement for the pagan individual to favor both divine genders equally. One must worship whomever they are called to worship, whether it's one God, one Goddess, a God and a Goddess, a bunch of Gods and Goddesses, or just a bunch of Gods or just a bunch of Goddesses. We can't dictate the spirituality of others.


Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God? Goddesses are receiving more attention because many people who come to paganism are women who have been raised in patriarchal families and systems of belief. Coming to the Goddesses is a way for them to decompress from this influence. (Not to mention it's a way for the Goddesses to get the proper attention They deserve.) It is entirely natural and understandable, and I even believe it is a good thing that this happens. However, I am frustrated and I lose patience with the ones who throw the baby out with the bathwater and claim that patriarchy is somehow "evil" and "un-pagan." Fact of the matter is, patriarchy was started by pagans, not by Christians or Muslims or Jews. Patriarchy can be just as pagan as matriarchy. I'm a pagan who follows a much more patriarchal path than most, and I'm proud of it. Not only is my supreme deity a male God, but His favorite "consort" is also a male God. I recognize and acknowledge the Goddesses, but I have not been called to worship any of Them.


I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completly wrong.

I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.You haven't offended me in any way. But you would probably find it equally frustrating if you were to attend one of my rituals. I really don't invoke or worship or pray to any Goddesses at all. Not that I don't recognize Their importance; it's just the way my own spirituality works. I do agree with you that there is definitely more of a slant toward the Goddesses when it comes to paganism generally, but try not to let it bother you so much; that has absolutely nothing to do with you or how your own relationship with divinity works.

[Lavender Rainflower]

Well I know for me personally, I was simply drawn to different Goddesses. Like a physical pull or dreams about them, I haven’t experienced anything like this with a God; unless in was nightmares I had when I was younger about the Christian god I grew up with and feared. That many be why I feel more comfortable working with the Goddess now.

[Moonrise]

For me, as a Gardnerian priestess and now also on a Gnostic path, it has always been about balance.
I have always seen the masculine elements Air and Fire as manifestations of the God, and the feminine aspects of Earth and Water as manifestations of the Goddess. And the God and Goddess are both manifestations of the One Divine.
When we pay attention to the sabbats, in actuality, we are paying honour to the God, because Sabbats are Solar.
When we pay attention to the esbats, or moon cycles, we pay honour to the Goddess, due of course to the feminine aspect of the moon/
On our altar are horns to represent the Horned God, and he is a huge part of what we do. As is Goddess, but they are both equal.
And in all honesty, I have always felt more drawn to the God aspect because it is opposite to my femininity and for me it feels like a balance.
Just my two cents.

[Fiamma]

Is it me, or is the Pagan/Wiccan God, not ignored but in a way, lesser to the Goddess. I know that he is seen to be equal but most of the things I have read makes him seem a bit forgotten. The Goddess is dominant in most things. Though this is fine for others, it is not to me. Because they are completly equal and should be mentioned equally and have equal power and such.

Well, you're going to find this if all you're looking at are the Llewellyn-type neopagan books, many of which are quite poorly written and researched. (note, I did not say all.)

It would probably help to keep in mind that there is no "The Pagan" anything because "paganism" is not one single religion, and while Wicca is a pagan religion, "pagan" and "Wiccan" are not synonymous. There are many different pagan religions, points of view, deities, beliefs of deities etc. I only have your posts to go by, but have to assume based on them that you are of the "all gods are facets of one god/all goddesses are facets of one goddess" camp?


Why is the God almost forgotten? Why does the Goddess take presidance over the God?

As far as my own observance goes, this seems to happen largely with people most heavily influenced by the "popular" Wiccan books and the flavor of religious practice inspired by said. That, and Dianics


I will say again, I know he is seen as equal but in action he is always second. I am just wondering why. I can make a few guesses, but I want to hear from you first as I may be completely wrong.

This whole question of "the god" and equality with "the goddess" flies out the window for most folks who are polytheistic as I am (though there are still some who will put goddesses above gods or vice versa)

I believe in many gods and many goddesses, a small handful of which are more important to me than all others- most of those few deities being gods. I am a devotee first and foremost of Apollo.

Goddesses are, by and large, must more minor to me, but neither one has anything to do with the fact that some are gods and some are goddesses- gender politics has nothing to do with my personal religion and beliefs. It only has to do with who those deities are, and what their influences and areas of provenance are. If the gods were goddesses and the goddesses were gods, I think my deities would be exactly as they are now.


I know mostly about Wicca so I am working from what I know of that, if it is different in your path please say so =] If I offend anyone I am truly sorry. To make offence is not what I want.

Definitely very different for me. I would suggest learning more about different pagan religions. Perhaps trying to learn more about Traditional Wicca, which is quite different from what you find published in books.


Hope that helped.