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Nuadu
October 14th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Has anyone read Ever Ancient Ever New: Celtic Spirituality in the 12st Century by Delores Whelan?

I came across the author today but theres no Irish stockist so I cant buy the book in Ireland or the UK. Getting it from the US will cost 3 times the books rrp so I was hoping someone could give me a review so I could see if its worth the cash.

http://www.doloreswhelan.ie/

Noinden
October 14th, 2009, 03:45 PM
Has anyone read Ever Ancient Ever New: Celtic Spirituality in the 21st Century by Delores Whelan?

I came across the author today but theres no Irish stockist so I cant buy the book in Ireland or the UK. Getting it from the US will cost 3 times the books rrp so I was hoping someone could give me a review so I could see if its worth the cash.

http://www.doloreswhelan.ie/

Yikes that is an expenisive book $30 for 133 pages!!! I will dig around see if I can find it cheaper.

skilly-nilly
October 14th, 2009, 09:27 PM
The site you pointed to says that she lives in Ireland now even though she was from the US. Maybe you could write to her or email.

The book is listed there for 9.99E, which I convert as 15.30 CN$-- still not a very long book, though.

But, wow :hairred: the cheapest you could get it on Amazon is $30!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1856075516/sr=8-3/qid=1255568360/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1255568360&sr=8-3&seller=


Amazon doesn't carry it new and there are no reviews......

So I would assume that it's a small self-publish. Nothing inherently wrong with that except the total lack of external controls on content and veracity.

Personally, I would suspect someone who was well-versed in "Native American Spirituality", and "Psychosynthesis and massage and healing", and "Biochemistry", and Reiki, and "Celtic Spiritual Tradition" as being a dilettante.
jmo, ymmv.

As well, her masters in "Spirituality" is from the Institute for Community Collaborative Studies, which from the website appears to be interested in local public health.http://hhspp.csumb.edu/community/

I would buy something else, myself.

Nuadu
October 15th, 2009, 02:33 AM
Thanks guys :)

Id say she is definately a dilletent she definately isnt rooted in the working class reality of Ireland. But the thing that draws me to the book is her psychological approach to celebrating the 'celtic calendar' have you heard anyone else take an approach that promotes living in the spirit of the bealtaine season for example?

Noinden
October 15th, 2009, 08:23 AM
Thanks guys :)

Id say she is definately a dilletent she definately isnt rooted in the working class reality of Ireland. But the thing that draws me to the book is her psychological approach to celebrating the 'celtic calendar' have you heard anyone else take an approach that promotes living in the spirit of the bealtaine season for example?

I'd not trust her to actually know her arse from her elbows in Psycology. But I am a lot a "doubting Thomas" (bad pun I know) of these "I have a million degrees". Her MA in Spirituality was for example from a community college. Now it might be a good book. I'd even punk $30 to find out. What worries me the most is the "rediscovering the divine feminine" comment on the website... it screams New Age to me.

Sizzle Flambe
October 16th, 2009, 01:31 AM
Notes on Whelan's Amazon listing:

The book was published March 15, 2007, but is no longer available new? Not good.

No rating stars, no reader reviews? Not good.

The book's sales rank is "#2,037,208 in Books"? Not good.

By comparison, Lebor Feasa Runda's sales rank is "#1,661,140 in Books", even though it was published less than a year ago and is blatant rot.

"A title must sell at least one copy a year to remain above a rank of two million." (http://www.fonerbooks.com/surfing.htm) Akins has apparently sold at least one copy in the past year. Whelan has not.

Nuadu
October 16th, 2009, 05:07 AM
Yeah I think youre right about the sales figures there I had a chat to her and its out of Print. She's no plans to get more made up but she's done an audio thing for sale in some shops in Co. Louth or directly from her.

She's got a soothing voice in a priestly inflections sort of way, I might go for that.

I wouldnt be surprised that the LFR outsold Ever Ancient, SE is a marketing king :hahugh: and his market was outside Ireland. Theres a small market for new age and paganism here, even more popular books like Irish Witchcraft from an Irish Witch sells more abroad then it does at home. I think its 'cos religion caused so much conflict here noone wants to know anymore. I wouldnt say agnostic or atheist just disinterested.

odubhain
October 16th, 2009, 06:43 AM
Thanks guys :)

Id say she is definately a dilletent she definately isnt rooted in the working class reality of Ireland. But the thing that draws me to the book is her psychological approach to celebrating the 'celtic calendar' have you heard anyone else take an approach that promotes living in the spirit of the bealtaine season for example?

I think there are several authors who promote living in the spirit of seasons. Caitlin Matthews is one who comes to mind. Alexi Kondratiev is another.

Every season has its own physical, mental and spiritual activities associated with it. Some of these are subtle while others are definitely "in your face" experiences.

Searles O'Dubhain

Nuadu
October 16th, 2009, 07:13 AM
I think there are several authors who promote living in the spirit of seasons. Caitlin Matthews is one who comes to mind. Alexi Kondratiev is another.

Every season has its own physical, mental and spiritual activities associated with it. Some of these are subtle while others are definitely "in your face" experiences.

Searles O'Dubhain

Thanks Searles,

Was Kondratievs thing in Celtic Rituals/The apple branch or a journal like Keltria?

Noinden
October 16th, 2009, 09:28 AM
Thanks Searles,

Was Kondratievs thing in Celtic Rituals/The apple branch or a journal like Keltria?

It's not that similar to Keltria (I'm a member) but similar enough. He's working on a new version. He's not going to let the publisher put any old hobo as a reference on the back either! If you want to talk to him, join the IMBAS mailing list, he's on there a lot.

odubhain
October 16th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Thanks Searles,

Was Kondratievs thing in Celtic Rituals/The apple branch or a journal like Keltria?

Nuada,

It was in the Apple Branch although I've seen Alexei expound on these ideas over the years. You can discuss these things with him via email or on any number of lists like the Keltria list for instance. Keltrian ritual also emphasizes the seasonal spirituality as well as deity pairs.

Searles O'Dubhain

Nuadu
October 18th, 2009, 07:37 AM
Hey Thanks Searles,

Im rootin out my copy of the apple branch. I suppose must not have read it seriously after the first chapter and missed it. TBH Alexei wanting to have more armed guys with a nationalist agenda around, even with the idea of protecting sacred sites, is not what Ireland needs. It really knee capped his credibility in my eyes. lol

odubhain
October 18th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Hey Thanks Searles,

Im rootin out my copy of the apple branch. I suppose must not have read it seriously after the first chapter and missed it. TBH Alexei wanting to have more armed guys with a nationalist agenda around, even with the idea of protecting sacred sites, is not what Ireland needs. It really knee capped his credibility in my eyes. lol

I wish someone would have guarded Cnogba before they turned it in reinforced concret and styrofoam, with its own tourist shop built right into the sacred mound.

The same goes for the site at Tailtenn where they bulldozed half the site in supposed ignorance of what it was and is (euros and dollars was what that was all about or maybe pounds and punts instead).

Otherwise, I'm trusting to a years ago memory of the book but I do know it had suggested rituals for each of the seasons and tied them together in cycles of the Earth, streams of the Sun or cycles of the Moon (long before Hutton used these ideas in the titles of his books).

I do know that Alexei is senstive to such things and has contributed linking tales to the Celtic League Calendar that was available in the United States (and is now sadly no longer available: http://www.celticleague.org/calendar.html).

Searles O'Dubhain

Nuadu
October 18th, 2009, 05:28 PM
I wish someone would have guarded Cnogba before they turned it in reinforced concret and styrofoam, with its own tourist shop built right into the sacred mound.

Ah well Searles people do their best to protect sites but violence isnt moving Ireland forward from the last 800 years and politicians... they arent bogey men that used to rule Ireland, theyve just got some very modern idea's of what consitutes the national interest.

Theres no souvenier shop in Knowth now but when considering knowth in the context of other sites Id keep in mind that it Knowth was in use from the time it was built almost right up to today. As a settlement aswell as a ritual site. For example the big ditch the anglo normans dug into the middle of the mound and the moat that cut into the kerb stones mean it couldnt be preserved intact.


The same goes for the site at Tailtenn where they bulldozed half the site in supposed ignorance of what it was and is (euros and dollars was what that was all about or maybe pounds and punts instead).
TBH that either slipped by me or it happend before my time. I know Conn and Druidschool have gone there in the past so if anything happend theyd know but Id be wary of suggestions that cairns or passage tombs were bulldozed by accident. First the assembly site has been a town (Telltown) for centuries, second youd have to move the stones before anything could be done at a passage tomb or cairn so thered be no doubt about what the mound is. Besides Polticians even re-established the Tailteann games at one point. I dont see any political will getting behind destroying a site there. Maybe some farmer ploughing over a ringfort but thats always happend. They usually get a nasty surprise from the local spirits afterwards. The folklore abounds with the stories. Theres one recent one where a lad died a bit at a time, first his hair, then his nails and teeth, then his skin and he ended his days without doctors being able to help him in a hospice bed.


I do know that Alexei is senstive to such things and has contributed linking tales to the Celtic League Calendar that was available in the United States (and is now sadly no longer available: http://www.celticleague.org/calendar.html).

Searles O'Dubhain

That looks fairly deadly Searles. Its not a bad idea for a fundraising thing.

odubhain
October 19th, 2009, 10:24 PM
First the assembly site has been a town (Telltown) for centuries, second youd have to move the stones before anything could be done at a passage tomb or cairn so thered be no doubt about what the mound is. Besides Polticians even re-established the Tailteann games at one point. I dont see any political will getting behind destroying a site there. Maybe some farmer ploughing over a ringfort but thats always happend. They usually get a nasty surprise from the local spirits afterwards. The folklore abounds with the stories. Theres one recent one where a lad died a bit at a time, first his hair, then his nails and teeth, then his skin and he ended his days without doctors being able to help him in a hospice bed.

It was a news article about 15 years ago, The owner had OKed a developer to bulldoze the area and only stopped after told he was having a protected site bulldozed. Now telll me th eowner didn't know that the mound was right there on his property. This is Ireland where land has to be inherited (must have been English without a history connecting to the traditions).

I can trace it down further if you like after you've returned that is.

Searles O'Dubhain

odubhain
January 30th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Here's a recent article with mention of the "Bulldozing of Lughnasadh":


In 1998, a local farmer bulldozed part of this ritual enclosure, the mound Rathdhu or "Rath Dubh," which had previously stood revered and untouched for hundreds of years and comparative in importance with the Hill of Tara and Rath Cruachain in County Roscommon.


The full article on Lugnhasadh is to be read here:

http://www.angelfire.com/de/poetry/Holy_Days/Lughnasadh.html

I and others protested this action by those who claimed they didn't know the significance of the mound at the site. I sent my protest to Síle DeValera who was the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht & the Islands at the time IIRC.

Searles O'Dubhain

Nuadu
January 31st, 2010, 01:31 AM
Thanks for the article Searles, did Síle DeValera get back to you?

Edit: I would have to say that I was unaware that the site was as significant as Cruachan much less Tara myself.

odubhain
March 6th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Thanks for the article Searles, did Síle DeValera get back to you?

Edit: I would have to say that I was unaware that the site was as significant as Cruachan much less Tara myself.

You're welcome Nuadu. Síle never replied. I guess she was too busy.

A few years later, I made the acquaintance of a Druid who worked for her but that was way after the hill was dozed. He left the civil service and moved to France (mother was French and father was Irish).

Searles