Devil card in deck

[FireryWings]

I'm new to tarot reading, and am a little confused on having a devil card in my deck. I don't believe that a supremely evil enity exists, so having one in my deack throws me off a bit. Should I just take it out and toss it? Or does this card have a deeper meaning than just the Devil? Thanks!*S*

[Flaire-FireStar]

Hmmm.... I usually see the Devil as being too materialistic and being stuck in a rut.

Here's what Joan Bunning has to say on the Devil:

http://www.learntarot.com/maj15.htm


:)

[FaeRain]

I relate this card to Hades, as in the story about Persephone spending 6 months underground and 6 months above. In my deck, this card is called the Underworld. I don't believe in the devil either, so I like the visual better of Hades.

FaeRain

[Thia]

I copied this definition off of a website that I frequent:

The Devil card symbolizes letting those parts of yourself that have been repressed or shamed out of the closet... this card is reminding you to face your shadow stuff... We are conditioned to mistrust passionate desires and basic instincts, because we are afraid that we might go too far, slipping into hedonism or addiction... we need to outgrow fearful inhibitions placed upon our personalities and self-expression. In every generation there have been those who push these limits. They may have been demonized in their time, but later generations understood the honesty, courage and healing power of their daring. (http://www.tarot-cards-online.com/www/the_devil_tarot_card.htm)

Also check: http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/2282/tarot/15.htm

[FireryWings]

Thanks!*S* I'm thinking of getting a new deck because when I got mine it was the only one there. Oh, and how do people but the cute little emoticons in their messages. I really like the green one jumping up and down.*L*

[Flaire-FireStar]

:D You should have a little box next to the reply text box (if you don't, go to PROFILE, EDIT OPTIONS, under the OTHER OPTIONS (at the very bottom), make sure the Use vBCode quick links on your message input screens? selection has YES selected)

Otherwise, under the reply text box, there is a little green box that says "Forum Rules", if you click on where it says SMILIES, you'll get a page that shows all the smiley codes. :)

[Nect]

It's easy to misjudge tarot cards whose image is vivid and 'clear' (well, at least to the new reader), especially the Major Arcana that has a name to it. But this hinders your reading greatly because the tarot deck is about tapping into the unknown, and that takes you to deve into its depths to find the actual meaning that pertains to the querent.

You mentioned that it puts you off a bit (and you asked if you should toss it out), but I think that is the beauty of the tarot - its dark and light aspects, it tells you about the querent's life, which is a reality not sugar-coated. For example, when I read for myself, I hardly see cards that I "YAY!" about, I'm more like, "No, you again." But that's the reality check.

Instead of reading into the title of the card, in this case "The Devil", read into what the devil means to you. It puts you off, but why does it? You mentioned that you do not believe in a supremely evil entity, so is that what "The Devil" means to you, a surpremely evil being? If so, what aspects would you attribute to a supremely evil entity (whether it exists or not is besides the point, but what you *think* this entity would embody *should* it exist)?

These are just sample questions, of course.

Another thing that I find useful when I read is to steer away from the focus of the card for a few moments and evaluate its surroundings: the color scheme - what mood does it symbolize to you?; any animals? how do they look like and what do they seem to be conveying?; any plants? If you an recognize the plant, you can look up what this plant is traditionally related to - e.g. is it traditionally used for exorcism, healing, love, etc. There are so many details in a card because I think they serve as the elements that elaborate on the main image.

I hope that helped a little! ;)

Nect

[FireryWings]

Nect~~~~

What bothers me is that there are two people chained to the devil. It sybolizes to me that "people" can become the property of another being, makes me a little uneasy. I like the idea of an "underworld" card. Thanks for the advice!*S*

[FireryWings]

:bug:

Thanks! Now I can use those neat little faces.*S*:D

[Flaire-FireStar]

Originally posted by FireryWings
Nect~~~~

What bothers me is that there are two people chained to the devil. It sybolizes to me that "people" can become the property of another being, makes me a little uneasy. I like the idea of an "underworld" card. Thanks for the advice!*S*

To me, that symbolizes the bondage, and I guess....being chained to material things. To me, in today's world, what you have shows how high up you are viewed in the world, not necessarily how much money you have, or your happiness... *shrugs*

[tarotbear]

If you 'toss' the card you will be destroying your deck.

Tarot is a world of illuminations and shadows, joy & bitterness, beauty and ugliness. If you were to toss this card, or any card you don't 'like' or understand, you are missing a great deal of points in why they are there.

There are many other tarot decks that have glossed over or changed the Devil into something else. Perhaps you would find the Robin Wood deck where the image has been totally changed. Ms. Wood is Pagan and pagans don't believe in a Devil ; it's images might be better suited to you.

You have a lot to learn about Tarot. Sometimes Tarot shows us our greatest fears and trials. Sometimes Tarot tells what we have to know, not what 'we want to hear.' Sometimes these revelations are NOT pretty. We use Tarot to learn how to overcome them. We don't throw out stuff we don't like until we find something we "do." Tarot is not like chosing to wear a red shirt today because we wore a blue one yesterday. Tarot is a system, and you should learn to use it, rather than manipulate it to suit yourself without knowing why.

[Nect]

What bothers me is that there are two people chained to the devil. It sybolizes to me that "people" can become the property of another being, makes me a little uneasy. I like the idea of an "underworld" card. Thanks for the advice!*S*

You're very welcome! ;)

Again, by reading two people chained to the devil as literally two people chained to the devil, you have just overlooked the very purpose of tarot-reading - tarot is about (like I said in my previous post) reading into the unknown, not stating the obvious. In this case, you should be asking yourself questions such as: what does the image of two people chained together and chained to the devil mean to me? Does it mean bondage, as Flaire mentioned? If so, what kind of bondage is this? Material? Emotional? But that's up to you to answer yourself.

As tarotbear said, tossing out a card destroys a deck. For example, take a deck of playing cards - say I dislike the card 8 hearts (for whatever reason), thus I remove it. What do you think this would do to the deck? It would disable it, and all the games played with this deck would be incomplete because I have removed the chance of 8 hearts to appear at all. And the same applies to a tarot deck, only worse (to me, at least) because you are attempting to acquire information about the querent's life.

So try your best to look past the obvious and/or image(s) that disturb you and reach for something deeper, beyond.

Hope that helped! :D

Nect

[Witchy Cowgirl]

What an interesting discussion. And very good advise can be found here FireryWings. Everyone has already covered what I wanted to add! But here's something for you to think about.

When I started reading I did a celtic cross layout for myself. I was wondering if we were actually going to be able to purchase the property we live on. I don't remember all the cards at this time (it's all in my journal though) but I do remember the last card - the one that gives the most likely outcome. It was THE DEVIL. It shocked me. Sometimes I still think about it and wonder about the meaning and if there is something deeper there than what I saw.

What I saw was that we would be able to purchase the property and therefore we will be bound to the land, not only by monthly payments, but by the responsibilites of being a land owner, oh and not to mention the taxes, and the list goes on and on.

If your DEVIL is in the Rider-Waite deck (which is what I use) I ask you to look at those chains closely. Those chains and very loose and I imagine that if those folks chained to that block wanted to they could just slip that chain right over their head and be free! See what I'm getting at? In the case I mentioned above, that's showing that we are willingly choosing to step into the "bondange" of purchasing the property. Just as in any other case where someone may need to rid themselves of a certain aspect of their life.

[FireryWings]

Witchy Cowgirl~~~

Thanks...that makes sense. I'm new to the tarot and wanted to ask a few questions. Ya'll are great, I'm glad I found this site so that I can find answers to my questions. :sunny:

[FireryWings]

I finally got a new deck. It's called Tarot of a Moon Garden. I't has beautiful drawings with lots of plants, faries, and unicorns. The devil card looks more like a beast/dragon and the people are faces that peak out from behind it like they are hiding and the beast has the chain in it's claws. The pictures look like watercolors and have soft and vivd colors. I just love it! :D But thanks for the infor about the devil card!:shift:

Blessed Be!:sunny:

[Flaire-FireStar]

Hmm....I'm trying to find a picture of the DEVIL, but I'm sure it looks great, as do the other cards I've seen of that deck. :) It has some beautiful art work.

[Mnemosyne]

I like the images in the Tarot of the Moon Garden deck. I usually use the Mythic Deck. In that deck, the Devil card is represented by Pan. I see nothing disturbing about the card. Perhaps you found the devil card to be disturbing because of Christian associations made with the devil. As other people have stated, the tarot deals with the subconscious. Don't have assumptions that cards are bad or good. Welcome to MW, by the way, FireryWings! You'll find great discussion at this site. :)

[Raevyn]

Just found this thread as I myself was looking for the meaning of the devil card while using the Tarot of a Moon Garden. :)

[Silver_Alhena]

Originally posted by FireryWings
Nect~~~~

What bothers me is that there are two people chained to the devil. It sybolizes to me that "people" can become the property of another being, makes me a little uneasy. I like the idea of an "underworld" card. Thanks for the advice!*S*

In an earlier thread in here (can't find it for the life of me) someone had posted a picture of a Devil card that showed the Devil in a dark cave sitting on a large trunk, a woman chained to the trunk. Outside the cave's opening was green grass, freedom, sunlight, happiness.

The devil, as everyone else has rightly pointed out, represents temptation, the earthly/worldly/material ties that bind us. For example, money, sex, possessions, addiction, control over/being controlled by another.

When The Devil is upright, I interpret that the pull of these things is too strong - the person does not want to, is not strong enough, or cannot break free and leave the cave.

Thankfully, when the card is reversed, so is The Devil's lure: There will still be temptation, but the person realises they can break the chains and gain freedom over a part of their life.

The use of reversed cards is a personal decision, and there are several threads kicking about that discuss this.

[Zander770]

Originally posted by Silver_Alhena
In an earlier thread in here (can't find it for the life of me) someone had posted a picture of a Devil card that showed the Devil in a dark cave sitting on a large trunk, a woman chained to the trunk. Outside the cave's opening was green grass, freedom, sunlight, happiness . . . The devil, as everyone else has rightly pointed out, represents temptation, the earthly/worldly/material ties that bind us. For example, money, sex, possessions, addiction, control over/being controlled by another.

And, not only all this which is well-stated, I think, above, but, also, the male and female figures "in chains" on the #15 Key could EASILY free themselves'! I mean, just LOOK how loose those "chains" are? They could lift them right over their heads; they could easily draw their hands past those "cuffs."

They ARE "blind," aren't they? And, I think that a few of the many things "blinding them" are their collective "covetousness;" their "lust" and their greed, too.

I very much like how Robin Wood decided to depict her #15/the Devil Key (and, she explains how, being a practicing wiccan and "not 'believing' in" such a creature as "the devil," she decided to depict similar antiquated characteristics "symbolically," by using a "monkey trap" (in some south american and third-world countries where they have to eat monkey's in order to remain alive, there is such a trap--much like "chinese handcuffs"--where the monkey can reach into the hole and grab the prize [a banana, for example], yet, once in its grip s/he cannot remove its hand and is totally UN-WILLing to let go of the prize! No, not even for its very life . . .), chains, and a very long and dark tunnel which leads to "freedom;" to the Light.

I also appreciated how she used chains to form the "inverted pentagram!" That was a very special and unexpected touch, I thought.

~z~770~

[AmbivalentMirage]

I think of the "devil" card as the antagonist of a story. He might not be your favorite person, and you might cringe when he shows up, but he is vital. :cool: Remember that all magickal tools have their "light" and "dark" sides, just like the athame. :)

[Theres]

Originally posted by Zander770
[B]... I very much like how Robin Wood decided to depict her #15/the Devil Key...

yep, me too. while the Robin Wood isn't one of my favorite decks, this IS one of the best depictions of the Devil that i've seen. the two people seem desperate to get out of the tunnel, but they are 'bound' to the treasure box. not physically bound, but trapped by their own desires.
i also like the Thoth version, with the phallus that extends from below the card to out of the top. and the wry smile on the goats face is wonderful!
Haindl's version is cool too.

i generally back away from any deck which depicts the Devil as 'Satan'. that misses the point entirely, imo, and perpetuates an incorrect interpretation.

[Zander770]

V.H. Frater D.E.D.I., 5* = 6# means: "Demon Est Deus Inversus," "The Devil is God Inverted . . ."

and . . .

so goes it with Key #15/the Devil, no? absolutely EVERYTHING (from the upside-down bat wings to the duel-female and male breasts, to the pentagram affexed upon his forehead) IS "inverted" (subverted, too?) on this Great Key, isn't it!

"as above, so below . . ."

there IS no "god" without there, too, obversely, being a "devil . . ."

"non servium!" = "i will not serve!"

these were (from what i've heard) the last words from lucefer's lips as the archangle michael threw him out from heaven and into the bottomless pit . . .

the poor boy didn't say: "i HATE you, god!" or "i beg to differ!" nor even a highfalutin': "fu*k YOU!!!"

merely: "I WILL not . . ." and that was enough, apparently!

here's what i--ZANDER--says: "a disciple is an AS*HOLE searching for a Human Being to attatch itself to . . ."

what'd YOU say?!!?

[Theres]

LOL! i love your thoughts on disciples Zander!

so... "you need two for a tug o' war" huh?

personally, i have no recognition of the type of deities you're referring to in my belief system, so the Satan associations are of no use to me.
and i also feel that the nature (or archetype) of Atu 15 can still be supported without a Satan-like character. therefore, it's incumbent upon me to seek them out. and i have found them, in many different decks. so naturally these are the decks which i prefer, as their system works for me.

btw, the Devil card is one of 4 or 5 cards i usually go straight to when studying a new deck. Death is another, and the High Priestess.

[Armitage]

To me, it represents the id, the hindbrain, the reptillian intelligence, instinct. The human, the material, will and power. All the stuff we're fascinated with, and want, and never want to admit. ^_^

[Azure]

I have to admit for me it very much varies deck to deck. I take the same meanings most of you do with my Robin Wood deck, for instance, but when I use the Aquarian deck I have (it's my no-nonsense answer deck), I have to admit the picture of the Devil - how can I say this - looks kind of cute. Likewise, for me, in this deck the Devil card represents holding on to things I shouldn't for too long, for the wrong reasons, or it suggests because of the creature's expression, unnecessary sadness or depression - sort of "Eeyore syndrome" if that makes any sense.