PDA

View Full Version : Object Oriented Constructs



[V]
November 17th, 2009, 08:56 PM
I am professional web developer & programming often consumes my life.
In my line of work, I work with Object Oriented PHP. Its essentially an applied perspective for working with code.

Amazingly I found a way to apply this perspective with constructs & have had massive success.

The usual thing we do when creating a construct is to simply make a dense ball & program it with our intent and release it to do its job.

Start viewing your construct as individual tools. The more you practice with a particular 'tool' the better it gets.

Heres how I create a construct for alerting me as soon as someone pulls in my driveway.

I frequently create what I call "alert balls". This is a basic construct that will alert me by rushing back into my wrist (which is where I appear to be most sensitive to energy). I practice making these by creating a construct and telling it to 'alert' me when i snap my fingers. So whenever I want to make on of these all I have to do is think 'alert ball', then create a ball. Its like second nature.
So, step 1. I create a fairly dense alert ball, shell it & place it on my desk for later use.

The next step is to create a sensor ball. I then create a construct designed to activate my alert ball as soon as a car hits it. When Im done making this, I shell it & place it on the desk.

The last step is to create a "keep-alive" ball. This construct is designed to keep the whole construct self-powered. I program this ball with the intent to draw energy from the sun whenever any of the two constructs start to fall apart or loose energy (for whatever reason, could be ambient energy, vampires! etc).

Now we put it all together.
Grab the alert ball in one hand & the sensor in the other and stick them together. Now grab the Keep-alive ball and stick it on top, so that its touching the other two constructs.

Now you should have a triangular shaped object. Go leave this in your driveway and let it chill there.

Whenever someone pulls in my driveway I will immediately feel a tingling sensation down my wrist. As I continue to practice with alert balls, the feeling gets stronger and stronger.

I call this an Object Oriented Construct. It really pays to practice with individual objects before throwing them into a more complex one.

This can be applied to most anything. Start dividing tasks up into individual constructs. Try defining different jobs with different shaped constructs and fit them together.

This allows you to get master the building blocks of constructs or 'spells' so you can get the most out of your energy work.

Have fun!

Sequoia
November 17th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Or... you could look out the window when you hear something.

I just don't understand this drive to make "constructs" and "magic" for frivolous purposes. When there is already a mundane way to do something, why come up with a "magical" way to do it? Just because? For fun?

Next thing you know, somebody's going to post a "magical" way to clean their teeth... and wonder why on earth they keep getting cavities and their breath smells like a compost heap.

[V]
November 17th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Or you can live your life without using magick in day to day life, but this option is irrelevant to this topic; as is "looking out the window"...

Because the "mundane" way is often ineffective.
Half of your skill develops from actually trying out different things to see what works. Its all about being open minded. If the mundane is all that fits in your model, then so be it. Personally, I'd rather shoot myself in the foot.

Sure you can go scry just closing your eyes, but many of us still enjoy using black mirrors.

I found when I started creating constructs with this method, my strength & abilities with constructs shot up exponentially.

For me this method worked great. Fact.

Sequoia
November 17th, 2009, 11:02 PM
... I see the point of using energy work for actual purposes. I just don't see the point of using it to tell you when someone pulls in the driveway.

I'm not saying "ZOMG DON'T DO IT!!!11!1one" I'm just saying that it seems like a waste of energy. It takes a heck of a lot less effort to just...

Never mind.

[V]
November 17th, 2009, 11:16 PM
... I see the point of using energy work for actual purposes. I just don't see the point of using it to tell you when someone pulls in the driveway.

I'm not saying "ZOMG DON'T DO IT!!!11!1one" I'm just saying that it seems like a waste of energy. It takes a heck of a lot less effort to just...

Never mind.

*sigh*
Im using this drive-way construct as an example. I created this construct to verify and test & because I can.
I cant believe I have to spell this out for you.

Some might call it a waste of energy. I use magick for everything. Thats how I get better! Surprise! Who woulda thought practice was the key?


Never mind.
Word.

Shawn Blackwolf
November 18th, 2009, 12:15 AM
I have been watching your posts...

I can appreciate your work with constructs , [V] ...

You have a mind which appreciates complexity...

As an approach to the simplicity...:thumbsup:

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 12:54 AM
;4091252']*sigh*
Im using this drive-way construct as an example. I created this construct to verify and test & because I can.
I cant believe I have to spell this out for you.

Some might call it a waste of energy. I use magick for everything. Thats how I get better! Surprise! Who woulda thought practice was the key?

But the real kicker is, what on earth do you think you're going to need OMG Powerful Magick Powers for? :eyebrow:

I don't play 'magick' games with every task I have, yet my skills are absolutely adequate for me. I can do everything I want to, need to, and probably more if I needed it.

Using magick for everything is like driving your truck a single block to visit your friend. Sure, you COULD do that. But why?

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 01:00 AM
I have been watching your posts...

I can appreciate your work with constructs , [V] ...

You have a mind which appreciates complexity...

As an approach to the simplicity...:thumbsup:

Ah thanks! Always happy to help :thumbsup:


But the real kicker is, what on earth do you think you're going to need OMG Powerful Magick Powers for? :eyebrow:

I don't play 'magick' games with every task I have, yet my skills are absolutely adequate for me. I can do everything I want to, need to, and probably more if I needed it.

Using magick for everything is like driving your truck a single block to visit your friend. Sure, you COULD do that. But why?

..good for you, what do u want a cookie?

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 01:36 AM
;4091308']..good for you, what do u want a cookie?

V. All of your threads thus far have been desperate cries to be validated and appreciated. What aren't you getting in REAL life that you have to make up for it with so much magical pomp and glitter?

Only people with serious complexes think they have to bodybuild psychic/magic powers. There's utterly no purpose to it. You're not going to be fighting in any magical psychic wars where you'll need OMG POWERS! to save the day.

Frankly, someone as apparently new to all of this as you are should be practicing the basics, like shielding and meditation. Unless you're planning on picking a "witch war" with someone, you have absolutely no need for psychic powers and servitors at this point. Even if you DID get yourself into a mess, all you really need to properly retaliate is a creative mind and your instincts. Your guts. Honestly. It's like practicing opening and closing your eyes. You can do it with the smallest of thoughts.

And if you are planning on picking fights with random people, spirits, or other entities... well, have fun with that. It's an absolute waste of time and energy, but again...

If you have nothing in REAL life that validates you, have fun playing 'magic' games to make yourself feel better.

So here. Have your _cookie_

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 02:19 AM
V. All of your threads thus far have been desperate cries to be validated and appreciated. What aren't you getting in REAL life that you have to make up for it with so much magical pomp and glitter?

Only people with serious complexes think they have to bodybuild psychic/magic powers. There's utterly no purpose to it. You're not going to be fighting in any magical psychic wars where you'll need OMG POWERS! to save the day.

Frankly, someone as apparently new to all of this as you are should be practicing the basics, like shielding and meditation. Unless you're planning on picking a "witch war" with someone, you have absolutely no need for psychic powers and servitors at this point. Even if you DID get yourself into a mess, all you really need to properly retaliate is a creative mind and your instincts. Your guts. Honestly. It's like practicing opening and closing your eyes. You can do it with the smallest of thoughts.

And if you are planning on picking fights with random people, spirits, or other entities... well, have fun with that. It's an absolute waste of time and energy, but again...

If you have nothing in REAL life that validates you, have fun playing 'magic' games to make yourself feel better.

So here. Have your _cookie_

Lol relax no need to get upset.

Most of my posts have been seeking help or sharing my knowledge. Your posts all share one thing in common & resemble something that of a troll.

None of my posts are desperate cries to be validated. Your obviously suffering from some kind of psychological trauma to instigate trouble in even this innocent thread & to even imply that I have problems for wanting to exercise my skills. Your childish attention seeking behavior is reflected in your eagerness to take a piss on any post you see. I am not amused.

You made quite a few assumptions, you even tried to define my intent for learning pyschism. You don't know me. You never will ;)

For the record, I am not even remotely new to psychism and energy work.

You continue to make so many weak arguments it physically hurts to see such arrogance under such a nice community.

In a nutshell your telling me its immature to practice psychism & your clearly all grown up because you'd rather read & troll on a magick board than practice.

Am I starting a witch-war? Lol grow up.
Im not trying to debate or argue. You clearly are.
Get a hobby ;)

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 02:28 AM
Never said you were "starting" a witch war. Not my deal. :eyebrow:

Your posts irk me because you seem interested in frivolous, childish things. If you aren't new to all this, then I really must question you.

The thing that is immature about your requests are that you seem to not really understand the fundamentals behind energy-work, and are merely seeking shortcuts for whatever you wish to achieve. You claim to know oh so much, yet you are asking very basic questions.

What I am arguing is that you are wasting time and energy that could be better spent. I know, I know - I shouldn't care about some random kid on the internet...

I have been here on MW for about eight years. I assure you, I am not merely some troll. I am another human being, sitting at a keyboard like you are, trying desperately to let you know that there are ways to validate oneself without playing magical games all the silly time.

There comes a point when we realize that making energy butterflies is cute, but achieves no end. You clearly haven't reached that point yet.

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 02:48 AM
Never said you were "starting" a witch war. Not my deal. :eyebrow:

Your posts irk me because you seem interested in frivolous, childish things. If you aren't new to all this, then I really must question you.

The thing that is immature about your requests are that you seem to not really understand the fundamentals behind energy-work, and are merely seeking shortcuts for whatever you wish to achieve. You claim to know oh so much, yet you are asking very basic questions.

What I am arguing is that you are wasting time and energy that could be better spent. I know, I know - I shouldn't care about some random kid on the internet...

I have been here on MW for about eight years. I assure you, I am not merely some troll. I am another human being, sitting at a keyboard like you are, trying desperately to let you know that there are ways to validate oneself without playing magical games all the silly time.

There comes a point when we realize that making energy butterflies is cute, but achieves no end. You clearly haven't reached that point yet.

Congrats on your enlightenment. :thumbsup:
Took you 8 years on a forum to figure out magick is pointless. May I remind you.. Its pointless in your world. Not mine.

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 02:59 AM
;4091346']Congrats on your enlightenment. :thumbsup:
Took you 8 years on a forum to figure out magick is pointless. May I remind you.. Its pointless in your world. Not mine.

:eyebrow:

V. Energy work is most definitely not pointless. But some people lose sight of the real world when they play too much with their 'magic' games.

It's honestly like my metaphor: you could start up your truck, burn the gas, and drive 1/4 of a mile down the street to your friend's house. But why, when you could easily walk? What's the point?

Save your energy for important things, ya? You're so busy making little creations to do cute little things that you aren't connecting with the universe itself that makes these things possible.

Look. I suppose it is a matter of what you seek in life. If you seek cute, trivial, meaningless "magic" toys to play with, imagined power for the sake of "power", then fine. If you seek depth, meaning, spirituality... then I would recommend you look closely at your course.

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 03:05 AM
:eyebrow:

V. Energy work is most definitely not pointless. But some people lose sight of the real world when they play too much with their 'magic' games.

It's honestly like my metaphor: you could start up your truck, burn the gas, and drive 1/4 of a mile down the street to your friend's house. But why, when you could easily walk? What's the point?

Save your energy for important things, ya? You're so busy making little creations to do cute little things that you aren't connecting with the universe itself that makes these things possible.

Look. I suppose it is a matter of what you seek in life. If you seek cute, trivial, meaningless "magic" toys to play with, imagined power for the sake of "power", then fine. If you seek depth, meaning, spirituality... then I would recommend you look closely at your course.

I think you take yourself and your magick way too seriously.

I like to have fun with my magick and I always will. I enjoy doing what I do & your not going to change that. Stop trying.

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 03:08 AM
;4091351']I think you take yourself and your magick way too seriously.

I like to have fun with my magick and I always will. I enjoy doing what I do & your not going to change that. Stop trying.

Okay, I get it. You aren't looking for something deeper. You're looking for "fun" toys.

Guess we just have a fundamental paradigm conflict.

Hope you find something that fulfills you. :)

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 03:10 AM
Okay, I get it. You aren't looking for something deeper. You're looking for "fun" toys.

Guess we just have a fundamental paradigm conflict.

Hope you find something that fulfills you. :)


Self-discovery and spiritual enlightenment is a side-effect of doing magick. Its happening and has been happening ever since I started.

I don't need to go into this with a deep-brooding mindset to get the most out of it.

Thats where our fundamental differences lay.

Yticilef
November 18th, 2009, 03:11 AM
V. All of your threads thus far have been desperate cries to be validated and appreciated. What aren't you getting in REAL life that you have to make up for it with so much magical pomp and glitter?

Only people with serious complexes think they have to bodybuild psychic/magic powers. There's utterly no purpose to it. You're not going to be fighting in any magical psychic wars where you'll need OMG POWERS! to save the day.

Frankly, someone as apparently new to all of this as you are should be practicing the basics, like shielding and meditation. Unless you're planning on picking a "witch war" with someone, you have absolutely no need for psychic powers and servitors at this point. Even if you DID get yourself into a mess, all you really need to properly retaliate is a creative mind and your instincts. Your guts. Honestly. It's like practicing opening and closing your eyes. You can do it with the smallest of thoughts.

And if you are planning on picking fights with random people, spirits, or other entities... well, have fun with that. It's an absolute waste of time and energy, but again...

If you have nothing in REAL life that validates you, have fun playing 'magic' games to make yourself feel better.

So here. Have your _cookie_

Hi Sequola,

Sometimes we see in the actions of others our own shadows...

Everyone has a right to share their personal experiences without being subject to personal criticism, as opposed to objective assessments and critiques...everyone has different ways of approaching magic and all life really stems from forces we don't fully understand or even are conscious of.

As an older generation pagan I found this technique intriguing and perhaps represents a new generational approach in the context of the impact of technology on cognitive processes. Though energy balls are used in the context for me, in the same way as perhaps, I create tourbillions in my energy circle and though rituals with friends.

We are, as individuals, conscious of only a tiny fraction of information that makes it through to the intellectual mind as opposed to the amazing amount that our subconscious mind receives.

We also are aware of multiple universes... each and everyone has a path and is guided along that path... a path designed to strengthen the most powerful tool available to those interested in this area- intent.

As a greenwitch, I still like red geraniums growing in the front garden, one they are drought resistant, two, the old saying, where geraniums grow, snakes won't go, and most importantly, if the Inquisition comes, they turn their flower heads in that direction to warn their beloved companion.

So relax, and perhaps share some of your experiences

Yticilef

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 03:12 AM
;4091353']Self-discovery and spiritual enlightenment is a side-effect of doing magick. Its happening and has been happening ever since I started.

I don't need to go into this with a deep-brooding mindset to get the most out of it.

Thats where our fundamental differences lay.

Oh, V. You got me. *clasps hands over heart* "Deep-brooding"! I'm wounded! *staggers to stage left*

Later, Gator. I'm off to bed.

Sequoia
November 18th, 2009, 03:16 AM
Hi Sequola,

Sometimes we see in the actions of others our own shadows...

Everyone has a right to share their personal experiences without being subject to personal criticism, as opposed to objective assessments and critiques...everyone has different ways of approaching magic and all life really stems from forces we don't fully understand or even are conscious of.

As an older generation pagan I found this technique intriguing and perhaps represents a new generational approach in the context of the impact of technology on cognitive processes. Though energy balls are used in the context for me, in they same way as perhaps, I create tourbillions.

We are, as individuals, conscious of only a tiny fraction of information that makes it through to the intellectual mind as opposed to the amazing amount that our subconscious mind receives.

We also are aware of multiple universes... each and everyone has a path and is guided along that path... a path designed to strengthen the most powerful tool available to those interested in this area- intent.

As a greenwitch, I still like red geraniums growing in the front garden, one they are drought resistant, two, the old saying, where geraniums grow, snakes won't go, and most importantly, if the Inquisition comes, they turn they flower heads in that direction to warn their beloved companion.

So relax, and perhaps share some of your experiences

Yticilef

I love geraniums too. I have one that I "saved" from dying, and have kept it with me through a couple of moves. It struggles, I don't think it's too healthy... but it's special. So it lives on.

I'm trying, in my own way, to share my experiences. My experiences included getting so worked up in "magic" that I lost sight of the real world, the divinity in everything, and was utterly focused on "psychic powers" and "energy constructs"... it becomes an obsession after a while, for every single person I've seen doing it. It is something I came to realize that one doesn't actually need. I'm hoping that V. comes to realize that more easily than I did.

But, you know, who am I kidding? Maybe not everyone is into energy work for the spirituality of it. Maybe some kids just like playing with toys.

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 03:16 AM
Oh, V. You got me. *clasps hands over heart* "Deep-brooding"! I'm wounded! *staggers to stage left*

Later, Gator. I'm off to bed.


sweet dreams hun.

Yticilef
November 18th, 2009, 03:34 AM
I love geraniums too. I have one that I "saved" from dying, and have kept it with me through a couple of moves. It struggles, I don't think it's too healthy... but it's special. So it lives on.

I'm trying, in my own way, to share my experiences. My experiences included getting so worked up in "magic" that I lost sight of the real world, the divinity in everything, and was utterly focused on "psychic powers" and "energy constructs"... it becomes an obsession after a while, for every single person I've seen doing it. It is something I came to realize that one doesn't actually need. I'm hoping that V. comes to realize that more easily than I did.

But, you know, who am I kidding? Maybe not everyone is into energy work for the spirituality of it. Maybe some kids just like playing with toys.

Hellllooooooo Sequola,

Maybe some kids just like playing with toys.[/quote]

As an old 'dumb blond'-now greying and back-to-brunette witch double your age, you are so hard on yourself... heellooooo, 25 years old- yet I know you have a wonderful sense of humour from your other posts...

Spirituality takes many forms, (in traditional Kabbalah- God forbid, I hope Infinite isn't reading this post! so I'll keep it low key), everything originates from one source- everything is there for us to learn from and to really learn we need to enter into something and really experience it.

But, it is all part of the whole.. we are all in our little boxes thinking our reality is it... it ain't. It's part of an amazing network of learning and eventually we come to a different reality box and start all over again.

Glad you saved the geranium

Yticilef

Shawn Blackwolf
November 18th, 2009, 04:25 AM
There is truth in the saying :

"Practice Makes Perfect"

Continual work , whether study , research ,
or practical ritual and spellwork , testing
boundaries , and attempting new modalities ,
all make for a better mage , or witch...

Breaking old paradigms , and seeing magic(k)
through a lens tilted every which way , is the
sign of the innovator , not jaded by experience ,
yet the eternal child , ready to learn...

This is my approach , in much of my life...

As well , there are many types of magic(k) ,
where psychic development , on a continual
basis , as well the accumulation of power , is
not only encouraged , yet recommended...

In many cultures...

Power is often , a gift from the Spirit Helpers...

And , if one is not actively doing the "Work"...

The gift is not offered...

I work with telluric , and stellar currents...

It requires the ability to pull , move , hold , store ,
direct , and release , sometimes vast amounts of
energy , and power...

All methods , which may increase those abilities ,
are utilized by me , and regular charge and recharge
of my physical , and subtle bodies , and expanding
my ability to hold and move that charge , is of daily
concern , and interest...

It all depends on one's path...:thumbsup:

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 04:26 AM
*sigh*

as long as you continue to make binary distinctions between a spiritual quest and "playing with toys" you are sadly mistaken & deluding yourself with a sense of premature enlightenment.

Stop trying to pass judgment, and only realize that...
we dont really know anything.

[V]
November 18th, 2009, 04:31 AM
Well said Shawn, I couldn't agree more.

Kreyas
November 25th, 2009, 01:27 AM
;4091123']I am professional web developer & programming often consumes my life.
In my line of work, I work with Object Oriented PHP. Its essentially an applied perspective for working with code.

Amazingly I found a way to apply this perspective with constructs & have had massive success.

The usual thing we do when creating a construct is to simply make a dense ball & program it with our intent and release it to do its job.

Start viewing your construct as individual tools. The more you practice with a particular 'tool' the better it gets.

Heres how I create a construct for alerting me as soon as someone pulls in my driveway.

I frequently create what I call "alert balls". This is a basic construct that will alert me by rushing back into my wrist (which is where I appear to be most sensitive to energy). I practice making these by creating a construct and telling it to 'alert' me when i snap my fingers. So whenever I want to make on of these all I have to do is think 'alert ball', then create a ball. Its like second nature.
So, step 1. I create a fairly dense alert ball, shell it & place it on my desk for later use.

The next step is to create a sensor ball. I then create a construct designed to activate my alert ball as soon as a car hits it. When Im done making this, I shell it & place it on the desk.

The last step is to create a "keep-alive" ball. This construct is designed to keep the whole construct self-powered. I program this ball with the intent to draw energy from the sun whenever any of the two constructs start to fall apart or loose energy (for whatever reason, could be ambient energy, vampires! etc).

Now we put it all together.
Grab the alert ball in one hand & the sensor in the other and stick them together. Now grab the Keep-alive ball and stick it on top, so that its touching the other two constructs.

Now you should have a triangular shaped object. Go leave this in your driveway and let it chill there.

Whenever someone pulls in my driveway I will immediately feel a tingling sensation down my wrist. As I continue to practice with alert balls, the feeling gets stronger and stronger.

I call this an Object Oriented Construct. It really pays to practice with individual objects before throwing them into a more complex one.

This can be applied to most anything. Start dividing tasks up into individual constructs. Try defining different jobs with different shaped constructs and fit them together.

This allows you to get master the building blocks of constructs or 'spells' so you can get the most out of your energy work.

Have fun!

WARNING: Geek Randomness.

Throwing out the fact this is built on PHP code (a relatively limited programming language), which technique are you using to trigger the metaphysical sensor: polling, interrupt or something else? Seems you are using polling, which is programatically inefficient.

I recommend creating a sensory net that can work using an interrupt technique. If it's programmatically more efficient, somehow that should translate to better metaphysics.

[V]
November 25th, 2009, 02:55 AM
WARNING: Geek Randomness.

Throwing out the fact this is built on PHP code (a relatively limited programming language), which technique are you using to trigger the metaphysical sensor: polling, interrupt or something else? Seems you are using polling, which is programatically inefficient.

I recommend creating a sensory net that can work using an interrupt technique. If it's programmatically more efficient, somehow that should translate to better metaphysics.
Throwing out the fact PHP is the most flexible programming language for web developers,

Both constructs are listening on port 5577, only to be triggered once receiving any 32bit packet.

:D

Kreyas
November 25th, 2009, 09:31 PM
;4095537']Throwing out the fact PHP is the most flexible programming language for web developers,

Both constructs are listening on port 5577, only to be triggered once receiving any 32bit packet.

:D

Thus vulnerable to port scanning triggering it? What if someone's trying MOHAA Reverend which occupies a port range inclusive of port 5577? :P

[V]
November 25th, 2009, 10:21 PM
Thus vulnerable to port scanning triggering it? What if someone's trying MOHAA Reverend which occupies a port range inclusive of port 5577? :P

gruahhh!

Fine, Ill set port 5777 to only allow incoming connections from a local IP. On top of that Ill implement a port knocking sequence & MD5 Sig verification.

I own 77.89.33.100-500 in the collective consciousness network, stay off my range!

Sequoia
November 25th, 2009, 10:33 PM
;4096026']gruahhh!

Fine, Ill set port 5777 to only allow incoming connections from a local IP. On top of that Ill implement a port knocking sequence & MD5 Sig verification.

I own 77.89.33.100-500 in the collective consciousness network, stay off my range!

But what if I don't play by your rules, and invade your "range"?

It's useful to study programming protocols for inspiration, but to limit yourself to them is silly, when you have the entire UNIVERSE at your fingertips...

[V]
November 25th, 2009, 10:48 PM
But what if I don't play by your rules, and invade your "range"?

It's useful to study programming protocols for inspiration, but to limit yourself to them is silly, when you have the entire UNIVERSE at your fingertips...

Well my range only accepts connections from local IPs, and unless you are my immediate family you cant even ping my address!

If its any consolation - I don't actually use port interface for my constructs...

Kreyas & I are clearly having a nerd moment.

Kreyas
November 26th, 2009, 01:05 AM
;4096043']Well my range only accepts connections from local IPs, and unless you are my immediate family you cant even ping my address!

If its any consolation - I don't actually use port interface for my constructs...

Kreyas & I are clearly having a nerd moment.

Obviously.

That and I recommend using NAT so we don't waste public IP space. Yanno, all IPv4 addresses are going to run out in 2000.

Not sure what the metaphysical equivalent of NAT would be though... imagination?