Makings of a Shaman

[WillowMoon86]

I have heard that sometimes Shamans are picked by the Spirits and such.
And if you have a lot of experience with death and dying that you may be a Shaman... is that true?

[Shanti]

Maybe.

Some people may be a shaman and they had a lot of experience with death and dying. Some have that experience and are not!

Some people actually die and come back with the gift when they were revived and some die and are revived but come back the same as before the incident.

If your meant to be something, you will. If not, you wont.

Anyone can acquire an ability. What ability and when?
Some people have talent for music from birth and some suck. ;)
Some develop the talent and some always suck! :toofless:

*note.
I am one with the type of music ability that goes in the permanent suck region.:thumbsup:

[WillowMoon86]

Ok... I was just wondering because I was supposed to die at birth, and I had a very well known Shamanic teacher tell me that she could see that I was a psychopomp (aka deahwalker")... that is to say...it was my responsibility to guide newly deceased souls into the afterlife. And I told one of my Pagan friends and she said she could tell, but she wasn't going to say anything until I came to the realization myself.

[Falling Star]

if you have been a shaman in a past life,.....then all those abilities are still within you,.......carried from lifetime to lifetime!
the shaman has the ability to travel,.....communicate between both worlds!
many are now looking to find their true selves, there is a mass awakening happening!
all truth is carried within the soul, ..and is now being revealed!
I feel a great connection to the shaman,...medicine men of the north Americas!
As i have travelled my pathway as a reiki three practitioner, i am awakening now to all truth,....i am on a magical journey of discovery, as i am sure you are too!
Many of us are experiencing the dark night of the soul, and this can also be part of our shamanic journey.
The ability to travel multi- dimensions also! I wish you many blessings on your magical journey of self- discovery!:fpraise:

[MonSno_LeeDra]

WillowMoon86 wrote:
I have heard that sometimes Shamans are picked by the Spirits and such.

In certain tribal groups perspective Shamanic practioners were identifed in early childhood by the Spirits and then trained to be Shamanic Practioners.

Sometimes the selection was based upon things the child did. Sometimes by being marked by Spirit to be trained. Sometimes from a death experinece. Sometimes it was by lineage where a child would be born and selected by the aged Shamanic practioner with thier birth being the sign of their selection.

I say shamanic practioner for there are many variants of shamanic practioners not just what is most seen or acknowledged today.



And if you have a lot of experience with death and dying that you may be a Shaman... is that true?


In some area's one had to experience a shamanic death to be identified as a probable future shamanic practioner. It really varies from group to group. Not all groups indicating a shamanic death had to have occured.

Contraries seldom underwent a shamanic death but the very contrary nature of thier spirits signaled their calling. Contrary being another type of shamanic practioner found in the NA associations.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Falling Star wrote:
if you have been a shaman in a past life,.....then all those abilities are still within you,.......carried from lifetime to lifetime!


Not all shamanic practioners have believed in reincarnation. Nor do all believe that they transfer from body to body via reincarnation. Not all believe that a skill set is passed from life to life though past life events may influence a present life.



the shaman has the ability to travel,.....communicate between both worlds!


Again that is a skill set that is atributed to some but not all shamanic practioners. Some see the ability to be one that allows them to communicate between the various peoples of the planet, ie four leg, two leg, winged, green and stone people. Some view it as an ability to transistion spirits to the viel in the capacity of spiritkeeper, some see it in the capacity to act as dreamwalkers.

Though all do recognize some type of ability to function between preceived worlds.



many are now looking to find their true selves, there is a mass awakening happening!


Perhaps. That notion does match up to the notion of the Rainbow Tribe that is supposed to be awakening.



all truth is carried within the soul,


Depend upon perspective and calling. Many do not recognize a soul in all things though they usually do recognize a life force or spirit of varying shapes and degrees.



I feel a great connection to the shaman,...medicine men of the north Americas!


Medicine Men were but a small fragment of those in the NA traditions that were considered shamanic practioners.

For instances: Keeper's of Sacred Relics are shamanic practioners but not medicine people. Spirit Keeper's are shamanic but not medicine people. Pipe carriers also shamanic in nature but not medicine people. Yet all of them are associated with different types of medicine.

[Lupabitch]

Having a near-death experience *can* potentially make a shaman--but it isn't necessarily a given. Same thing goes for those who can go neat places while using hallucinogens, or who work with totem animals, or have indigenous heritage, etc. In a lot of cases, it's tough to *miss* the call, because you end up with the spirits whapping you with the clue-by-four if you ignore them too long!

The thing that, to me, sets a shaman apart isn't the specific traits and tools, but WHAT the person does with them. This includes roles like psychopomp, intemediary, healer, etc. Just because you have the potential to be such a thing, though, doesn't mean you're one. You still have to go through training of some sort, whether facilitated by humans or spirits or both, in order to know how to use the traits/tools--and more importantly, you have to practice using them. For instance, I'm going to school to be a counselor, and I do have good inherent listening abilities, but that doesn't make me a counselor--the training I am receiving, and the practical portions of my education, will get me on the road to being one.

So I would say that while you're certainly interested in shamanism, a NDE doesn't make you a shaman any more than anyone else who hasn't been trained/practiced. But there's nothing keeping you from learning more :)

[Sequoia]

Ok... I was just wondering because I was supposed to die at birth,

According to who?


and I had a very well known Shamanic teacher

Who? From what culture?


tell me that she could see that I was a psychopomp (aka deahwalker")... that is to say...it was my responsibility to guide newly deceased souls into the afterlife.

According to one woman.


And I told one of my Pagan friends and she said she could tell, but she wasn't going to say anything until I came to the realization myself.

That's cute. "I know something about you, but I'm not going to tell you, you figure it out. :) " That's just about as good as saying, "I know jack crap, but I'm not going to open my mouth and reveal that."

Or, your friend might think you have some growing to do.

Just which culture is it you're trying to follow on this "shamanistic" journey?

[Shanti]

According to who?
Who? From what nation?
According to one woman.
That's cute. "I know something about you, but I'm not going to tell you, you figure it out. :) " That's just about as good as saying, "I know jack crap, but I'm not going to open my mouth and reveal that."
Or, your friend might think you have some growing to do.
Just which nation is it you're trying to follow on this "shamanistic" journey?You keep mentioning nation, what do you mean?
Did you know the word Shaman does not come from any one Native American?
It comes from the Tungusian people of Asia and it was Russian Cossack explorers who discovered this term during their explorations. From Russia the term was brought to the European nations. This was in the 17th century.
(Anthropology 101)

Today, the art of Shamanism isnt confined to any particular nation. Its spans many countries and beliefs. Its an ability. Just like clairvoyance is an ability. You dont have to belong or follow any nation.
The ability to shift consciousness can be found in people from all different walks of life.

And who are you to question another metaphysical possibilities, unless you are looking for references or something because of an agreement for services?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I perhaps maybe wrong but I think Sequoia is using the phrase "Nation" in association to the NA tribes. Such as the Sioux Nation composed of all the tribes that make up that nation, ie Lakota, Dakota, etc.

Shanti, you are right in that the term Shaman comes from the Tungusian people, Siberia if I recall correctly. I think the problem one runs into is that "Shaman" is starting to be as diluted as Wiccan on what is lumped beneath it.

While each group had specific names for positions such as Keeper of the Sacred Relic, Pipe Holder, Spirit Keeper, etc everything today is just lumped under "Shaman". Especially true in the material that is written by non-native peoples or native peoples that hope to make a buck off of PT Barnum's observation of "A sucker is born every minute" and "a fool and his money are soon parted."

[Rae'ya]

I have heard that sometimes Shamans are picked by the Spirits and such.

Yes, sometimes they are picked specifically by the spirits. It depends on which culture you're talking about as to which way shamans are chosen or made. As some of the others have said, the term 'shaman' applies to practitioners from a number of different cultures across the world. They're all different, and as much as core shamanism has become popular in the neo-pagan community and purports that all forms of indigenous shamanism have the same core techniques, that's not definitively true.

Then again, (core shamanism aside) neo-shamanism is often something quite different to the indigenous forms that were and are still practiced within their original cultures. Nowdays, the term 'shaman' has been diluted and applied to people that are better described as shamanists or shamanic practitioners. A shaman serves a specific purpose within their community, and being a psychopomp or someone who journeys is not enough to make you a shaman. Some traditionalists argue that only the spirits can make you a shaman, and that those who are self taught or who don't undergo the shamanic death and rebirth etc aren't truly shamans. There are several schools of thought on the issue. But in the end, as Lupabitch pointed out, it's not your past or your abilities alone that make you a shaman (or even a shamanic practitioner or shamanist), it's what you do with those abilities. It's what your actual practice is and the way that you serve the community you work with.


And if you have a lot of experience with death and dying that you may be a Shaman... is that true?

No. At least, its only as true as the concept that having a lot of experience with death and dying means you may be a Necromancer. You MIGHT be shaman or necromancer material, but you might not. Apart from the argument that it's not the actual even that makes you a shaman but what you do with the experience and training, experience with death and dying doesn't make you anything at all unless you DO something with that experience. I have a lot of experience with death and dying... I've never had a near death experience myself, but I'm in the veterinary profession and I deal with death and fatal illness all the time. That doesn't make me anything other than a person who works in an industry where death happens. It certainly doesn't make me a shaman nor would it give me any particular advantage if I wanted to pursue that path.

As far as near death experiences go, some people who experience those go on to become shamanists or shamans. Most don't. The shamanic illness and subsequent death and rebirth experience doesn't always hinge on an actual near death experience either. And it's not always an integral experience in all paths that can be classed as shamanic. *shrugs*


Ok... I was just wondering because I was supposed to die at birth, and I had a very well known Shamanic teacher tell me that she could see that I was a psychopomp (aka deahwalker")... that is to say...it was my responsibility to guide newly deceased souls into the afterlife. And I told one of my Pagan friends and she said she could tell, but she wasn't going to say anything until I came to the realization myself.

Psychopomping isn't a technique that is ONLY practiced in shamanism. There are different paths that include variants of psychopomping, and shamanism is only one of them. Nor does psychopomping on it's own make one a shaman or shamanic practitioner - there's a whole gamut of other beliefs and techniques that would have to be a part of one's path in order to call oneself a shamanic practitioner.

Is shamanism a part of the path you WANT to follow? By that I mean, is this a desire of YOURS, or just something that has come about because someone told you that you are a psychopomp? If it is a desire of yours, then by all means study and learn and experience and become a shamanic practitioner, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are automatically a shaman just because you were supposed to die at birth or because you have a knack for psychopomping. If the spirits call you to the path, then you'll know about it... they'll ping you hard and not let you rest until you start your feet down that path. If not, then you may also get there on your own, through a lot of hard work and practice.

If you want to be a shamanist, then my advise would be to start reading the work of actual shamanic practitioners (core and non-core) as well as the anthropological texts, and build a practical experience from there. Remember though that no amount of theoretical knowledge will make you a shamanist or shamanic practitioner... you have to get out and DO it. I know a lot of the theory, but I'm not a shamanist and I don't intend to be. It interests me, but I don't have the ability nor the desire to become a practicing shamanist. And without that practical experience, you're nothing more than a person who knows a bit about shamanism, or a person who has an ability to psychopomp but doesn't do anything with it.

[Shanti]

I perhaps maybe wrong but I think Sequoia is using the phrase "Nation" in association to the NA tribes. Such as the Sioux Nation composed of all the tribes that make up that nation, ie Lakota, Dakota, etc.

Shanti, you are right in that the term Shaman comes from the Tungusian people, Siberia if I recall correctly. I think the problem one runs into is that "Shaman" is starting to be as diluted as Wiccan on what is lumped beneath it.

While each group had specific names for positions such as Keeper of the Sacred Relic, Pipe Holder, Spirit Keeper, etc everything today is just lumped under "Shaman". Especially true in the material that is written by non-native peoples or native peoples that hope to make a buck off of PT Barnum's observation of "A sucker is born every minute" and "a fool and his money are soon parted."
Yup I know all that. I was making the point that the art of Shamanism doesn't have to be connected to anything NA.
She was drilling another as if NA is a requirement.
Thats an incorrect assumption, hence the short anthropology info.

[Sequoia]

Perhaps a better word to use than "nation" would have been "culture." I couldn't get it to type out. Right on the tip of my tongue! Figures I get it NOW. I'll change that in my post, I didn't mean it the way you guys are taking it.

Anyway, that doesn't answer any of the other questions. I'm very wary of when people who are new to any spiritual path are getting told amazing things by others that they weren't aware of themselves. This is usually a formula for... well... lots of not-good things.

[Shanti]

Perhaps a better word to use than "nation" would have been "culture." I couldn't get it to type out. Right on the tip of my tongue! Figures I get it NOW. I'll change that in my post, I didn't mean it the way you guys are taking it.

Anyway, that doesn't answer any of the other questions. I'm very wary of when people who are new to any spiritual path are getting told amazing things by others that they weren't aware of themselves. This is usually a formula for... well... lots of not-good things.
Culture? Thats like asking a person what culture did they get for their clairvoyant abilities.
Shamanism is an ability. You dont need any culture to have the ability to shift consciousness.

Maybe what the poster was told is true or maybe not. In time they will know. Its for that person to find the answers, not for you to do the asking or potential judging.

[Lupabitch]

Culture? Thats like asking a person what culture did they get for their clairvoyant abilities.
Shamanism is an ability. You dont need any culture to have the ability to shift consciousness.

You don't need culture to shift consciousness--but the structures that are used to facilitate journeying are culture-specific. Taking these practices out of the context of the culture and environment they were developed in necessarily changes them. Additionally, there's a difference between practicing shamanism when you're surrounded by people who have an animistic viewpoint, where the role of the shaman is generally accepted (if, in some cases, given the hairy eyeball), and where you have a history of generations of practitioners--compared to a culture such as this one where there's not that integrated background support. It doesn't mean that one can't be a shaman in this culture, but it can be tougher to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were--and we learn a lot more through trial and error.

Additionally, one may ask about culture with respect to people claiming to practice specific rituals, such as the inipi (sweat lodge) ceremony, or some other indigenous spiritual/cultural practice. There are a lot of hucksters claiming to be other than what they are, deliberately--and I don't include people who are honest about not being indigenous in that group.

So there are some good reasons for asking about culture.

[Shanti]

You don't need culture to shift consciousness--but the structures that are used to facilitate journeying are culture-specific. Taking these practices out of the context of the culture and environment they were developed in necessarily changes them. Additionally, there's a difference between practicing shamanism when you're surrounded by people who have an animistic viewpoint, where the role of the shaman is generally accepted (if, in some cases, given the hairy eyeball), and where you have a history of generations of practitioners--compared to a culture such as this one where there's not that integrated background support. It doesn't mean that one can't be a shaman in this culture, but it can be tougher to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were--and we learn a lot more through trial and error.

Additionally, one may ask about culture with respect to people claiming to practice specific rituals, such as the inipi (sweat lodge) ceremony, or some other indigenous spiritual/cultural practice. There are a lot of hucksters claiming to be other than what they are, deliberately--and I don't include people who are honest about not being indigenous in that group.

So there are some good reasons for asking about culture.As one NA told me once, "we both do the same thing but use different ways to accomplish it"
He said this because I dont follow any culture.
I do what I do by following my own instincts, especially since the ability was tossed on me without wanting or knowing anything.
He worked with me for awhile and never asked me to change who I am or how I do what I do.

Also many Shamans walk alone. No gatherings.
Solitude.
The occasional need to have one person be present because they are the ones the work is being done for.

Shamanism doesnt have to fit in a box.

[Lupabitch]

He said this because I dont follow any culture.

I'm guessing you mean you don't follow any indigenous culture, but I just wanted to say something. My apologies if I misinterpreted what you said.

No one is culture-free. The people who claim to be practicing culture-free shamanism are generally white, middle-class, American or otherwise primarily English-speaking Westerners, often though not always college-educated, and often though not always politically liberal/progressive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of these (they all describe me, for example). However--THAT'S THEIR CULTURE. We all practice within the context of the cultures we were raised in and/or live in now. Unless you have been entirely isolated from other human beings your entire life, you have a culture--multiple cultures, actually.

One of the things I do with therioshamanism (http://therioshamanism.com) is I deliberately and consciously work within my cultural context. I do the same general things that many shamans do--intermediary work between the spirits/nature and humanity, healing (psychological counseling), etc. But instead of doing it like the Indians do, for example, I think about what would best work with people in my culture and those who are most likely to be my clients, as well as my own personal needs. My place as a Caucasian-American woman strongly informs my shamanism.

[Shanti]

I'm guessing you mean you don't follow any indigenous culture, but I just wanted to say something. My apologies if I misinterpreted what you said.

No one is culture-free. The people who claim to be practicing culture-free shamanism are generally white, middle-class, American or otherwise primarily English-speaking Westerners, often though not always college-educated, and often though not always politically liberal/progressive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of these (they all describe me, for example). However--THAT'S THEIR CULTURE. We all practice within the context of the cultures we were raised in and/or live in now. Unless you have been entirely isolated from other human beings your entire life, you have a culture--multiple cultures, actually.

One of the things I do with therioshamanism (http://therioshamanism.com) is I deliberately and consciously work within my cultural context. I do the same general things that many shamans do--intermediary work between the spirits/nature and humanity, healing (psychological counseling), etc. But instead of doing it like the Indians do, for example, I think about what would best work with people in my culture and those who are most likely to be my clients, as well as my own personal needs. My place as a Caucasian-American woman strongly informs my shamanism.
I dont follow any laid out culture.
I do my own thing taught by my ownself.
I am solitary in my work and always have been.


I also am mixed race, very low income and live a very manual basic life homesteading in the country because thats the life I chose as I dont have family beyond my kids and mate.

So even some of the people in various works of life dont fit in boxes.

[Lupabitch]

I dont follow any laid out culture.
I do my own thing taught by my ownself.
I am solitary in my work and always have been.


I also am mixed race, very low income and live a very manual basic life homesteading in the country because thats the life I chose as I dont have family beyond my kids and mate.

So even some of the people in various works of life dont fit in boxes.

You're entirely missing the point. By being immersed in the everyday interactions with other people in which there is mutual impact on each other and learned behaviors, you are a part of a culture. Your own nuclear family is a sort of culture. The people at your workplace comprise another culture. Your city/town/etc. of residence is another, and your country has the impact of yet another. All of these inform your path simply because they have shaped your worldview--you are not culturally neutral.

[Sequoia]

You're entirely missing the point. By being immersed in the everyday interactions with other people in which there is mutual impact on each other and learned behaviors, you are a part of a culture. Your own nuclear family is a sort of culture. The people at your workplace comprise another culture. Your city/town/etc. of residence is another, and your country has the impact of yet another. All of these inform your path simply because they have shaped your worldview--you are not culturally neutral.

Emphasis mine. Because NONE of us are culturally neutral, and to think that we are somehow unique snowflakes is... naive, at best.