Christians Aren't So Bad!

[Emerald Oak]

I don't wanna be a stick in the mud, but it seems every time I see a thread on Christians, it's about the bad apples.

At my last job, I knew a devoted Christian. He knew a lot about the religion itself, and even answered a question that I've been asking myself for several years. He never tried to 'save' me, even if I think he suspected me of pure Satanism (neither of us never said anything, but I could tell).

I also knew a guy online that was just as devoted. He was very philisophical and provided some of the best convos I've ever experienced.

Anyway, the point I'm probably never gonna get to if I continue babbling is this: Are there any threads on this forum that show the better side of the Christian population? I don't visit here often, so I must have missed them.

PS: Please don't over-analyze this thread, people. Whatever I may come off as, I'm just asking a question.

[shnen]

Actually, some of our beloved members here on MW ARE Christian.

I think you are probably running into the majority of the threads that have issues with them, because honestly, as a pagan, I do run into a lot of problems with Christians. Its more of a fact... I am not saying ALL Christians are horrible, close minded and hypocritical, and I am not saying ALL pagans are not.

:)

[Old Witch]

I have many Christian friends......and some of them know I'm Pagan....and love me still.....I've been married to a Christian for 30 years and 2 of my best friends here on MW are Christians......More good uns than bad uns out there, I suspect.........

[Dagda Moon~Lily]

I come from a community that has a VERY small pagan population. So all my co-workers and most all my friends and acquaintances are Christians.

We get a long fine unless they feel the need to "convert" me. I handle the situation as tactfully as I can and if that still doesn't work, and they just can't leave it along, I distance myself from that person. I don't go out of my way to avoid them, but I also don't go out of my way to see them either.

Most the time it doesn't even get that far. I find many of them don't want to bother getting bent out of shape when within Christianity....there are many different branches and beliefs.

I have two very dedicated co-workers that I admire and respect and they feel the same about me. :D

It's too bad that the "bad apples" have louder voices and more pull than the Great one's out there!!

~D

[Aine of the Fae]

One bad apple spoils the bunch. Once you've encountered a Christian or two who is determined to 'save your soul' and 'convert you from those Satanic practices' it kind of makes you wary of ANY Christians that you encounter. And in spite of 'religious freedom' we still have to keep our guard up because of the misperceptions about our faith.

[Lavender]

Emerald Oak, thank you for bringing this up. I find that it seems to be fashionable for pagans to bash Christians. I see this more so in some of the new pagans I've come across. There are good people and there are bad people, no matter what race or religion they belong to.

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by Emerald Oak
Are there any threads on this forum that show the better side of the Christian population? I don't visit here often, so I must have missed them.

Look in Theology & Philosophy for Beltheshazaar (did I spell that right?). There's some interesting discussions going on there.

I notice the same thing as you, and think there's a few points to it. First, the ignorant and stupid are always the loudest, so they're the ones going around showing themselves as Christian (or pagan, if you turn it the other way). You rarely hear from more open minded Christians because they don't feel a need to troll. Second, a lot of Pagans came to this system because of bad experiences in Christianity, and because of this already are prejudiced. They are so used to the loud ignorant people they know it can be hard to imagine people who disagree and don't force it or damn you. Third, it has become fashionable - even the most famous Pagan authors will take potshots at Christians in their books. To "be Pagan" you have to "hate Christians", and people think that's how you fit in. Besides, as we all probably realize from school, some people find comfort in disliking others (ie. cliques).

I personally hate people bashing anyone of any path. I even find people discounting qabbalah and other ceremonial magick because it's "too Christian-y" or something, and I hate that. One shouldn't choose their beliefs and paths based on hurt and anger. I think this is also very hypocritical too - at least as a Christian you're taught you'll go to Hell if you believe in "false Gods". In Paganism, there's no such stipulation. In Christianity, often they're raised with no idea there are other paths - it's simply the way it is. In Paganism, we learn all kinds of people have different paths that are valid for them.

Unfortunately, counting people out is part of human nature I think, sometimes fundie Christians hate Pagans, and sometimes fundie Pagans hate Christians, even Satanists or Pagans that follow different paths.

Can't we all just love eachother :D

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Raevyn
Can't we all just love eachother :D

Group hug!! :D

[Old Witch]

:D

[Danustouch]

I have alot of friends of various religious paths in my hometown, including Christianity. I even had some friends back there, who WERE fundamentalist christians, however...they follow the example of Jesus, in exemplifying love, patience, and kindness. There are (at least) two schools of thought within the Christian Religion. 1. That you can lead by example, and by being loving, compassionate, and kind, or 2. That nonchristians are putting their souls in immortal peril, so sometimes, a more hardline approach is required (such as scare tactics, harrassment, etc). Personally, the only time I have ever seen people converted to Christianity, from another path, has been through the first method I mentioned, through being loving, compassionate, and kind. (that is not to say that the other method, never works). My family are Christians, and though they may not understand my religion, and may say that the do not "Condone" it (yes..they still use that word), they also do not try to preach to me, or convert me, nor make me feel bad for choosing an alternative path. They talk of their faith, when questioned, or when it comes up, and I try to do the same, without giving them a theological treatise on Paganism ;) Some of my Christian friends are the same way. As a matter of fact, a few of my coworkers back in CT were members of a very evangelical church, known all over for it's missionary work. However, when we got together, we always found more interesting things to talk about, than the differences in our faith. And we respected eachother enough, to let each person be who they were, without being made to feel badly for it. For instance, one of my coworkers had recently moved up north, from florida, and had nowhere to go for Easter, no family here. I invited her to my parents house, to celebrate Easter with us (though I did tell her that I personally, consider it a 'spring celebration', but my parents do celebrate Easter for it's spiritual significance). She came, and she enjoyed the meal, and the friendship offered. Likewise, when I was ill, she sent me a get well card, and asked me if I would mind if she added me to the prayer list at her church. I said that I didn't, and thanked her for her thoughts. She never had to hide her beliefs, and I never had to hide mine. We were both free to express ourselves in the manner we chose, and we respected eachother. For instance, I wouldn't pull out my Tarot Cards and start reading them in front of her, and she wouldn't pull out a Bible, and start giving me a sermon ;) However, if she came in on a Monday Morning, and told me that she'd had a terriffic sermon on Sunday's church service. I would listen to her, and tell her I was happy she got something out of it. And if I came in on a Monday morning,and told her I had a great time at my Esbat Circle on Friday Night, she would smile, and say she was glad I had a great time.

In my opinion, respect is what is key, for anyone, of any faith. I will admit, that if I feel I'm being disrespected, I WILL defend my faith. If someone makes a claim about my religion, that I consider not only to be false, but slanderous, I will try my best to correct that claim. If someone tries to tell me I am wrong for my belief, and says that I am going to hell, or harrasses me constantly with that type of idea..then yes..I will defend my faith, and I will argue back. That is my way...that is my truth, and it is my belief, that whatever you believe in, you should be willing to stand up for it when needed.

However, this is a far cry from deliberately targeting Christians for bashing, attacking, or arguing. If I have to go to a church for a wedding, or funeral, or simply to see my sister in the pageant, more often than not, I will go, and remain respectful (even to the point of removing all pagan themed jewelery, etc). If Someone is saying grace at a dinner, i will keep my eyes lowered, respectfully, and think of my own prayers. I don't go to christian chatrooms, or messageboards, and harrass them. Or even try to make them defend their faith. The only time that I will even try to argue it with them, is if THEY try to make me defend mine. And then, usually, i take the path of least resistance. Though, being human, there are times when they hit a sore spot, and I respond in kind.

I believe that you should "Try" to treat people the way that you would wish to be treated. However, I also do not feel that you must always turn the other cheek. Sometimes, you have to treat people only with the same level of respect that they are giving you.

Okay..I think that sums my idea's on the topic up :)

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by Wildchild
Group hug!! :D

:heartthro

[buttercup]

I think many people tend to speak more of negative things than good ones. I am a very positive person but I have to say that I tend to voice criticism more than I do praise. How many of us are more likely to complain about the bad service or undercooked meat at a restaurant rather than rave to the manager about the great waitress or well done food. Granted, if I receive superb service or food I will speak up. But if it meets or slightly exceeds my standards I generally keep to myself.
I believe that is somewhat the case with this. Many people don't tend to recognize the fact that 90% or more of the people they know do not share their beliefs and are perfectly fine do let people live their own lives how they want. Most Christians are fine with how you choose to live your life. The ones that aren't give us something to talk about.
I am married to a catholic and the majority of my friends are catholic or christian. Heck, I attend mass with my family and the priest knows my beliefs. I get along with christians just fine!!!

[Thia]

Gone for a few hours and miss a really cool thread!

I also get discouraged by the constant Christian bashing. In my coven, there is one or two members who have something nasty to say everytime Christianity is brought up and that really bothers me. In my experience, your basic Christian person is a wonderful person. As so many of you have said, there are just a few bad apples and the bad apples are typically the loudest and rudest. My Christian friends have known that I'm wiccan for a few years now and still think I'm all the things they thought I was before they knew that I had found my religion. (or defined it or whatever). I do have one friend who loves me just the same and does try to occasionally save my soul. I'm more flattered and filled with love for her when she does that than any other time because she thinks that she is helping me. She loves me enough to try to "fix me" and "save me from going to hell" even though it causes disagreements. That is friendship, IMHO. Yes, there could be a better level of personal acceptance, but when I think about the fact that she endures me snarling at her just so she could do what she thinks is best and help me for no personal gain. It always brings a tear to my eye (after they finish rolling at her, that is).

The only really "bad apples" I've enountered have been those frightening tv people who have those "Christian" shows. Of course, they frighten my christian friends too. :)

Christianity, like anything else, is only as good as the people in it. I don't mean on a spiritual level, but on a religious one. The ideas are lovely and I think it's just as beautiful as any other religion out there. I think it's just "in vouge" to bash the Christians and I'm not sure why.

[materra]

A Christian friend sent me to this site.... she thought it would fit my style of pagan just fine. We still talk often and I tease her that if she hung out here more she would change alot of peoples minds what it is like to be a real Christian. Just like I changed her mind about what is to be Pagan.... :)

[Emerald Oak]

Lots of neat responses! ^.^



Originally posted by Wildchild
I see this more so in some of the new pagans I've come across.

I know what you mean. When I first started down the Pagan path, I had a vendetta against Christians. It swelled further down the road when I encountered more and more Christians that ridiculed me.



Originally posted by Wildchild
Group hug!! :D

And after, we DANCE!! (Cheesy mid-80's techno dance music) :p



Originally posted by Danustouch
I will defend my faith, and I will argue back.

I'd like to say that, too, but I have a tendency to take it too far :p I usually end up humiliating the poor folks that insult me, my faith, or my friends. One of my friends won't even let me defend her, because she thinks I'll cause too much emotional damage to said person :D



Originally posted by buttercup
How many of us are more likely to complain about the bad service or undercooked meat at a restaurant rather than rave to the manager about the great waitress or well done food.

That's today's lesson; Pay more attention to good service.



Originally posted by Thia
Christianity, like anything else, is only as good as the people in it.

I guess I'd better be a good little Witch, then :D


I love it when you guys answer my questions :) Here's a couple more: 1) Is the King James Bible really as censored as everyone says? and 2) What does the H in IMHO mean?! This has been bothering me for years!

:uzi: :shaker: <--- Sorry, just had to add that in.

[Danustouch]

Answer 1) Not sure what you mean by censored. If you mean that certain books were included, an certain ones not. Yes. Some books were rejected on the basis that they could not be authenticated, and some books rejected because they did not fit with the overall 'canon' of the Early Church

2) The H means "Humble".

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Being a Christian Witch this thread has given me such a warm feeling.:heartthro
There have been so many good responses that it'd be hard for me to pick any out to quote, but Danustouch - as usual - was outstanding.;)
I acutally haven't received much flack about my beliefs but not that many people know either - except for my family,ya'll, my in-laws, and one of my friends and I was very afraid that she'd reject me after she found out - she didn't. As a matter of fact she's had lots of questions about the Pagan community that I was able to clear up for her, so I think I did a service to both.

Anyway, as a whole Christians are good people, but like Pagans the rotten ones (as in apples) also get on my nerves. But as we all know there are bad apples in every crowd and we just have to walk around those.:rolleyes:

As WildChild said...."group hug"!:heartthro
((((everyone here))))

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by Thia
Christianity, like anything else, is only as good as the people in it. I don't mean on a spiritual level, but on a religious one. The ideas are lovely and I think it's just as beautiful as any other religion out there.

I don't agree there, in fact I'd turn it around. People can call themselves Pagan or Christian and really muck up and pervert the beliefs - that doesn't say that Paganism or Christianity are bad. Pagans who are bigoted, hateful, and dishonest don't make Paganism bad. I'd say, "people are only as ___ (insert religion here) as the ___ (insert religion here) in them", or even "people are only as good as the __ (insert religion here that they claim to follow) in them".

[Earth Walker]

Hmmmmm......not bad...needs more salt http://www.mediawatchers.nl/smileys/watch8.gif

http://www.hallo-spass.de/gif/hexen/hexen003.gif

[FireryWings]

My step-father is a Methodist preacher and he is a wonderful man. He does not know about my religious choice, but I'm sure he'd be fine with it. He has studied phyilosophy(probally didn't spell that right) and does not push his religion over others. De actually believes that all religions lead to a God and that we all will be in the hereafter. I guess he is more of the modern christian.:D

Blessed Be!:sunny:

[Emerald Oak]

Well, you guys really do ahve all the answers, huh? :D

Which Bible should I read first? I wanna study them all sometime in my life (along with Paganistic texts as well), but I'd like to know which one would make a good base.

Also, I'd be happy to answer anyone else's questions about stuff I know aobut... Like, uh... Video games :p

[Danustouch]

Emerald, which bible to study really depends on what you are specifically wanting to Study. If you want to study the Bible in Medeivil history in specific timeframes, you might want to work with the KJV. Just to get the "old flavor". The problem is, it's rife with mistranslations. What I would do, is get several bibles, and compare them. Get a good Biblical Concordance, or glossery to go with whichever bible you choose.

I would reccomend the RSV bible, because (if I'm remembering the version correctly) it still comes with the Apocrypha. This is the one they reccomended we study when I was studying Ministry, and Biblical Interpretation. Big Red Hardcovered thing it was.

If you want to study the bible, and it's implications in modern times, and try to figure out the mindset of Modern Christianity, you might want to choose the NIV. The Students Bible, especially. As it has little lessons, and illustrative stories to go along with various chapters.