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winter rose
December 2nd, 2009, 05:47 PM
I think I had my first astral projection, but I can't be sure.

It was like a foggy dream - I saw myself in my room, opened the door, went into the hallway, walked the down the staircase and entered my friend's room where he sat with his back to me. He didn't acknowledge me or say anything, so I went back upstairs, opened my door and tapped myself on the shoulder and woke up.

Is this what a typical astral projection is like?

Astara Seague
December 3rd, 2009, 12:43 PM
I have to ask did you actually see yourself? I mean going through the action
normally In AP you feel yourself as you are actually doing the action and the things around you
if you were watching yourself.... it may have just been a lucid dream...does that make sense?

winter rose
December 3rd, 2009, 01:45 PM
I'm a little confused - is there a difference between Astral projection and lucid dreaming? I was under the impression that it's the same.

monsnoleedra
December 3rd, 2009, 01:57 PM
I have to ask the same question. You remarked that you "Opened the door" which to me makes me think of a lucid dream or possibly a remote viewing scenario.

While it is not required, most people I am familiar with always note the strangeness of walking through solid objects such as walls, doors and floors. It's one of the things that make the OBE and Astral Perjection notions so close in character.

That and I've only met a few people that can actually maniplate a physical object while they are outside of their bodies. If you opened the door that to me implies a manipulation of a physical object.

winter rose
December 3rd, 2009, 02:10 PM
So now you have a good idea of what the imagination part is in walking the gray paths. Now let me explain the "active" part. In most dreams at night we are not in control of the dream. We are often unaware we are dreaming. When we are aware we are dreaming and begin to exercise some control in our dreaming then it becomes lucid dreaming. It is the same with day dreaming. When we are simply letting a day dream happen, no matter how vivid and "real" it is, we are just passive. To be "active" means we take control. But here's the important part, only control of ourselves. Everything else is left to the direction of our unconscious.

That's what I've been basing my work off of - it's an article by Rawna Moon. I'm studying Christian Witchcraft, so it could be a different state that Astral Projection.

Here's the link to the whole article:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050601072251/members.aol.com/RawnaMoon/seeker8.html

monsnoleedra
December 3rd, 2009, 02:50 PM
Winter Rose,

You've got an author there that is trying to tie in a bunch of different things and call it the Gray Path.

Ludic dreaming is basically the realization that you are dreaming then taking control of the dream. You control what happens, the rate that it happens, even your actions and how you respond to things. You in essence become an active participant in the dream not a passive spectator.

Astral Projection, well there are many schools of though on that one. On group says that Astral Projection is a means of projecting into ones mental landscape and is all internal but almost universal in what one may encounter. Part of that is derived from the fact that no two people see the Astral in the same manner.

Another school of though is that the Astral Plain is actually a semi-physical realm that encompasses the planet. It is part of the fabric of space but lies outside the normal range of senses and is open to creatures form various demensions to access. Some claim you actually leave the body, other's that you project your soul or astral form to that plain though you remain teathered to your physical body.

There are items that are indicative of achieveing an Out of Body Experience (OBE) in there as well. The thing with an OBE is that it is similar to Astral Projeciton in that one leaves their body. The difference is that from my experience the person is always restricted to the physical world in what they view and interact with. You typically note that the projector is aware of what transponds with thier body and many times is aware of the cord that connects them together. Even removed from the physical body they remain aware of what is occuring with that body.

The author speaks of some items that are associated with the Shamanic concept of Journey. The notion of placing them selves in a trancelike state and associating it with a starting point is typical. the thing here is that the Shamanic practioner uses the situation to access the world viel and barrier between worlds. Often the landscape so distorted that one must pay close attention to funciton upon the various worlds.

The notion of interacting with other's on the journey is associated with Shamanic Journey, Confratation of the Shadow Self, Soul Retriviel and Astral projection inward. One may confront creature's in external Astral Projection but they may or may not appear human. When one does a Journey they frequently will encounter their spirit or animal guides. They may also become aware that they are able to speak and communicate with all the peoples of the planet.

There is a little bit of "Dream Walking" being spoken of as well. Dream Walking is basically entering a medatative state then projecting your spirit / essence etc to another and entering into their mind and speaking to them via dream. Sometimes a feat that is seen when we act as a guide or guardian for another and they call our spirits to them when they are troubled. One where when you speak to the person you both realize you have had the same dream and recall the same events.

Some are dangerious, some simply like riding a ride at the fair. All can be done at any place, any time and under any condition. You do not have to be before your Goddess altar (The authors words). IT can occur when you lay down to go to sleep, it can occur as a passenger in the car and you sink into the repeative pattern of the rotation and hum of the tires. Shamanic practioners frequently use sounds such as drums.

The author is also speaking of the process of creating a sacred and safe place. the creation of that safe haven one may escape to when they dream or when they need to contact spirit. It is a place often created upon either the persons internal landscape or believed by some to be created upon the Astral or Etheral plains.

Many practioners actually create a place that allows them to perform ceremony and caste spells from the belief that spells start first in the Astral then are manifested upon the physical.

Personaly my BS meter is going off after reading the page. Lots of factual info contained in it but much of it fragmented and piecemiel.

On another level she (I assumer she since the site is also very feministic in scope and slant) is speaking of touching the ID, Ego and Super Ego through this exercise. Not only touching but using the notion of the Astral Landscape on an interrier model to explain her goals and purpose.

On a side note, for a site that claims not to be Pagan she sure has borrowed a lot of pagan terms and concepts. For instance A BOS is a Wiccan notion for the most part.

RubyFire
December 5th, 2009, 02:07 AM
there are sounds when you are out travelling, somewhat like what can be heard in electronic music. Opening the door, like others have said, seems to indicate almost lucid dreaming.

winter rose
December 5th, 2009, 02:10 AM
there are sounds when you are out travelling, somewhat like what can be heard in electronic music. Opening the door, like others have said, seems to indicate almost lucid dreaming.

I've definitely come to believe it was a lucid dream. But are lucid dream as credible an experience as astral travel?

monsnoleedra
December 5th, 2009, 12:14 PM
I've definitely come to believe it was a lucid dream. But are lucid dream as credible an experience as astral travel?

Man, now that one falls into a true Catch-22 scenario.

To project to the Astral is credible to the one projecting but may be seen as un-credible to other's. The point being that no two experience the astral in exactly the same manner so no two experience can be close enough to compare and say "Yes, this is an Astral Projection marker".

That comparisson being made between the experiences of two seperate individuals. Though an individual may experince similar or repeat situations over and over.

The same holds true to Lucid dreaming. Each of us have our own experiences and must use our own symbology and understanding to place the truthfulness of the situation.

The other thing is that some school's of though are that both are forms of internal projection but to different levels of awareness. The astral level is a deep point that is almost beyond the awareness of the waking mind so relies more on the inner person.

Lucid dreaming is closer in awareness to the upper mind or frontal mind. The mind allows you to take control of the events within the dream sequence and manipulate the outcome or actions to be taken. For instance your animal self may want to run out of fear but since it is lucid the upper mind allows you to hold fast and see what will happen. To face some fear and overcome it.

RubyFire
December 5th, 2009, 08:52 PM
I've definitely come to believe it was a lucid dream. But are lucid dream as credible an experience as astral travel?

After you can 'wake up' while in a dream, then you start controlling the dream; if you're having a nightmare you can change it. You also can begin to do things in dreams you can't do in the physical realm.

While others say it's impossible to determine if you are truly travelling about I say there is a simple way to determine: stay close to the physical & observe something you can verify after you go back into your body. You would have to train yourself to recall as much of every dream as you can; just keep a dream journal near your bed. Think about what you were just doing when first waking up, to keep the dream 'alive', so to speak.

winter rose
December 6th, 2009, 01:17 AM
While others say it's impossible to determine if you are truly travelling about I say there is a simple way to determine: stay close to the physical & observe something you can verify after you go back into your body. You would have to train yourself to recall as much of every dream as you can; just keep a dream journal near your bed. Think about what you were just doing when first waking up, to keep the dream 'alive', so to speak.

I'm not sure I quite understand the method you're explaining here...

RubyFire
December 7th, 2009, 06:39 PM
so you can recall when you have been out of your body. The rest is about being able to prove to yourself, by viewing something that can be verified, that you have been out of the body/astral projecting. By which I mean your consciousness being separated from your physical body & instead with your soul or astral self.

monsnoleedra
December 7th, 2009, 06:52 PM
so you can recall when you have been out of your body. The rest is about being able to prove to yourself, by viewing something that can be verified, that you have been out of the body/astral projecting. By which I mean your consciousness being separated from your physical body & instead with your soul or astral self.

To my opinion I do not think that proves Astral Projection. Perhaps proof of having experienced Remote Viewing (usually physical world event or location) or Out Of Body Experience (OBE) which is also typically seen as an event verifiable because the projection is upon the physical world. But most schools of practice place Astral Projection into a place not of the physical world.

Of course my opinion only so one may take it or leave it as it suits thier own practice.

RubyFire
December 9th, 2009, 04:20 AM
obe & astral. For me, it is somewhat blurred, the boundary between the physical does eventually leave the physical......Do they talk of the 'turnaround' that occurs when leaving the body, at a certain point up becomes down into a different world-is that considered the astral world? Where are these 'schools'?

monsnoleedra
December 9th, 2009, 11:33 AM
RubyFire wrote: obe & astral. For me, it is somewhat blurred,

That's part of the problem with it I think. If one looks to the Shamanic pathways and how it's defined there is a difference. If one looks to the metaphysical or occult groups it has yet a different set of boundaries. Look into some of the Pagan callings and it's still further blurred. That's what I was refering to with various schools of though on the issue.

That does not even really step into what the boundaries are with some of the ceremonial groups or those that use the high magics in their practices.



the boundary between the physical does eventually leave the physical......


Yet that does not touch upon the notion of realility and non-realility. Even if one looks to the notion of one being the external physical world and one being the internal physical world there will be elements of both. It to me boils down to the notion of realility within those physical notions of the world.



Do they talk of the 'turnaround' that occurs when leaving the body, at a certain point up becomes down into a different world-is that considered the astral world?


I would think it depends upon which school one is working from. As one who follows a Shamanic inspired pathway there is a clear distinction between OBE and Astral Projection. One might even include the notions of Remote Viewing, Journey and Dream Walking in this discussion for they also touch upon the similarities and differences.

Not sure what you are defining as "Turnaround" here. I am assuming it to be the distortion that one frequently experiences when they fall into themselves as the inner spirit begins to seperate from the physical body. Depending upon how the seperatin occured you may exit anywhere under any condtion and direction yet be disoriented from sensory loss initially. A similar condition that can occur when one is pulled back into thier physical body abruptly.


Where are these 'schools'?

Well there are no formal halls of academia for sure. Mostly it is the manner and method of utilization employed by different groups. As I stated above the occultish side views it differently than the shamanic. The Ceremonial groups view it differently than the granny witches.

I find for me though one major difference is the things encountered upon the Astral plain as opposed to what is encountered upon the physical when one has experienced OBE versus Astral Projection. That and the energy types or signatures that one encounters on each.

RubyFire
December 10th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Do you put more value in astral projection than obe? I do not consider remote viewing related to either astral or obe experiences because I see it as an extension of the mind reaching out & watching while remaining conscious & in the body. I've looked into shamanic practices a bit & came across the worldview that the dreaming life is an extension of the physical life, this is what I believe. Do you think an illness is necessary to begin the shamanic path?

monsnoleedra
December 10th, 2009, 10:42 PM
RubyFire wrote: Do you put more value in astral projection than obe?


Truthfully I hold them about the same. Each serves to help me gain enlightenment and clarity over situations that I observe when I experience one or the other. Granted many times OBE seem's to be more focused upon physical items while Astral Projection touches upon more what if things for me.


I do not consider remote viewing related to either astral or obe experiences because I see it as an extension of the mind reaching out & watching while remaining conscious & in the body.

True but one may also experience the same during lucid dreaming and project outward. Sometimes one may experience a form of remote viewing where they do not remain conscious but have a complete recall as if they were in a dream like state.


I've looked into shamanic practices a bit & came across the worldview that the dreaming life is an extension of the physical life, this is what I believe.

I to believe that. Many times our dream state often serves to clarify or repackage what we experience in such a way that we may re-experience a situation from different angles with alternate outcomes that might have been the result.



Do you think an illness is necessary to begin the shamanic path?


That one is a little more difficult to answer. For some it seem's the experience preceeds the calling. For other's the illness or shamanic death is the final test that one undergoes. For some it is a self impossed thing where one pushes the limits to allow them to stand before the veil and know the deepest of truths and thier own fears.

Yet a shamanic death or death experince is not a componet of all shamanic pathways. I think for those that walk the healer pathway it is a critical requirement. For those that walk the warrior shamans pathway not as much so for they will approach death from a different facet.

Yet a shamanic death does not guarentee that one is being called either.

I experienced a death in my youth though I recall little of it now these many years later. It is so far removed now that I really can not say that it negatively or positively impacted upon me and the pathway I know follow. Though I suppose part of it is based upon the notion that I claim a shamanic inspired pathwalk but do not claim the title of Shaman for myself.