DIY Myths?

[Sylv]

Hi! I'm new here (well, I've been lurking awhile ;)) but I wanted to ask everyone a question. I'm in the process of developing my own mythology-much as I enjoy reading about a lot of deities out there, they either do things in stories that I'm not sure I like (I'm sure they care, lol) or the myths don't reflect my values. That's why I'm writing my own-plus this way it's all in my culture and I'll know the reasoning behind all the myths.
So how do you guys feel about that? Have any of you written your own myths? Do you think it's wrong/that they don't hold as much power/etc.?
Oh, and for those of you who have tried writing your own, if you have any links or books or whatever that deal with the subject I'd be much obliged. :)

[Faery-Wings]

Hii Sylv and welcome to MW! :)

I have never written my own myth, but I think it is a fabulous idea. IMO, they would have *more* personal power since they are part of you. Like you said, it has all of your reasoning, beliefs, values and culture. I would compare it to buying a manufactured athame vs making your own from scratch. Your own power is inherently built in.

Good luck to you- when you are done, you should post them in Poetry and Lit Forum.

[Mnemosyne]

Welcome, Sylv! :sunny:

I think that it is a good idea that you are going to write your own myths. Are you going to use the deities in a particular pantheon in your myths?

I've never written my own myths. I used to teach the history of ancient Greece to sixth graders. In order to understand Greek mythology, I had the students write myths. They wrote some really good stories. I found them to be entertaining and didactic. I find nothing wrong about writing your own myths. After all, I have learned about the gods and goddesses from reading numerous ancient sources. In the sources, the authors give different characteristics to the deities.

Good luck, Sylv. I look forward to reading your stories in the Poetry and Literature Forum.

Brightest Blessings

[Sylv]

I did a period on Anciet Greece/Rome in sixth grade. We did a play about the myth of the patron deity of Athens. I was Athena. *grin* About your question of deities-I'm kind of making up my own. :) I just feel that I can understand them better, and they and I have a good relation going. For all I know, I might be writing about deities that already exist and I'm just using a new name but it works for me.

[Eeluna]

I have written my own version of a seasonal myth. I think, that when we are inspired to write personal myths, they can be very satisfiying and meaningful. Just because someone created a myth thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean that's the only way to view Deity. Just as times and cultures change, so does our Gods and Goddesses.

[Cait]

Sylv, you might find this site (http://www.telp.com/spirituality/index.html) interesting - the guy who wrote it pretty much created his own religion ( Thekashi (http://www.telp.com/spirituality/thekashi.htm)), complete with deities, mythology and rituals, and it certainly seems to have worked well for him. I think there are a few of his own myths up on that site, too...

[Pan]

I never thought about it.. but I've been working on a religion for a group of elves for a novel I'm working on.. creating gods and goddesses.. and myths.

Do you think that this could be the same thing as Sylv? that's something to consider! lol :D

Great idea, btw, Sylv.

[Mnemosyne]

Using your imagination is so powerful. Way to go, Loki Panwit. Your idea sounds neat. What is your novel about? Or is it top secret?

Has anyone here read Joseph Campbell? He makes some really good points about mythologies in his books. Ok, I haven't read one of his books in ages, but I remember that about him.

Good Luck, all, with your creative endeavors! :)

[SuperHeroGirl]

I've had to write a few myths in school one about a goddess named Macadmeian ( like the nut ) who stoppd the feuding of the gods.
Another about the Norse gods tricking Loki into being good
and another about creation. *sigh*maybe I'll post them soon!

[Sylv]

Thanks for all the responses. :) Cait, I did like that site-I thought it was awesome, and I agree with quite a bit of what the guy said. Loki Panwit, I think it's the exact same thing. In fact, I don't know if any of you guys have read David Eddings, but I love the prefaces he has that are 'myths' from his worlds (if you haven't read him, you should, hehe). Mnemosyne, I had never heard of Joseph Campbell before (!) but I looked through some of his books at B&N and I'm heading off to my library to some up (don't have the money right now). Thanks for bringing him up!

[Sylv]

Hey! Just wanted to let everyone know that I posted a creation myth of mine in the Poetry & Lit forum. :)

[Mnemosyne]

Good for you, Sylv! I'll be sure to go to the literature forum and check out your work.:)

Joseph Campbell is a famous mythologist, so I would assume that you could find his work at your local library. I just went to a used bookstore the other day and found a copy of his book Myths to Live By . I started reading it this morning and couldn't put it down. I totally recommend that book to you. It has really made me see how myths throughout the world are connected. Also, I have become more familar with stories from the East.

[Sylv]

Mnemosyne, I've been to the library and I did find quite a few books by Joseph Campbell. I wanted to check them all out but some obscure rule won't let me. *rolls eyes* I've read Myths to Live By (and I loved it-especially the part about Satan in the Mythology of Love essay: the Persians were cool!) and I'm in the middle of Hero With A Thousand Faces. I also like all the exposure to Eastern myths-next I want to read his myth series: 3 books with one about Occidental Myths, one about Oriental, and oen about 'Primitive.

[Mnemosyne]

Wow! You got ahead of me on Myths To Live By . I haven't made it to the section on the mythology of love. I'm just on the section on the Confrontation of East and West in Religion. I'm interested in knowing what you think about the other Campbell books. Maybe we should start a Joseph Campbell thread. :) Hope that these works are helping you with your writing.

By the way, I love your quote from the Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. My bf just gave me a copy of that book and Jung's Man and his Symbols yesterday. Bizarre.

Blessed Be

[Sylv]

I just finished The Hero W/ A Thousand Faces (btw, how do you make the title underlined?). I liked it, but not as much as Myths to Live By-it incorporated a bit more of Freud in sections than Myths to Live By and I don't necessarily agree with Freud, hehe. But it was still a really interesting book. My favorite quote: "And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence; where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world." That just gives me shivers.
You have an awesome bf if he got you Zen... . :) I really, really enjoyed that book-I should probably read it again at some point. I have a lot of great quotes from it. I should probably read Jung...*planning next raid on library* and the books have helped me with my writing. I'm really looking forward to reading Campbell's Masks of God series.
Now I'm starting Compartive Mythology by Jaan Puhvel-I'm still in the intro but it seems like fun! And maybe we should start a Campbell thread....maybe in the Book forum...lol

[Pan]

Bump.

Just thought I'd stick this back up top since it was brought up again. ;)

Just wanted to say that my own pantheon consists of about.. 14 or so right now.. I have the family tree drawn out.

[Mnemosyne]

Hi again, Loki! Are you too making up your own pantheon? I think that it is fabulous that you a few of you are making up your own myths.

Loki mentioned that her pantheon consists of 14 deities. I follow a pantheon with many deities; however, I have only formed a connection with a few gods and goddesses. Do you guys have really close bond with all your deities, since you have put thought into your pantheon? Or do you also form a closer connection with specific deities?

[Pan]

I still usually just connect myself with a couple of them, not all. Though I do feel a close connection with all of them, since I did give them a thought-form and name, I still closely relate with one a couple. Currently, I'm re-vamping them to change along with me, as I feel I should. :)

I plan on starting a thread of my own myths in here once I get them mostly done, that way I can share my pantheon with all of you.. the ones I care for.

[Sylv]

I'm a little different than Loki-I'm really closely connected with all of them. I can just picture the looks on their faces if I started to ignore one or the other, lol. I have 14 too (...strange coincidence...) but the twins are really similar, and I tend to think of them as a unit, lol. That makes 13-my favorite number. :D I know my pantheon won't be getting any bigger and I'm glad-if it was, I'd probably start feelings closer to some than others. But 14 is still manageable, and it's interesting to have such a large variety of deities sticking their noses in my business. :D :D

[Sylv]

Whoops-forgot to tell Loki that I'm definitely interested in the myths. I doubt I'll share mine (except for the one I already did, which was generic, and didn't mention deities), at least until I feel more comfortable, but I'm always willing to read! I noticed in the original post you said you were writing myths for a book-do you pray to them now, as well?

[Pan]

They're actually the same pantheon, to be honest. I just found myself growing more and more attached to them, so I just adopted them as my own. I'll be getting illustrations of them as their myths are written. :)

I might even illustrate the myths themselves! ;)

As far as relationships with them goes, I paired them with several others save for the main 2.. The Sun and the Moon. I'll have to make up the family tree on Photoshop and put it up there for y'all to read sometime.. just to see. It took me 5 tries to get it to fit on a piece of paper, but at least with a computer, I can adjust it easier.

I'm pretty sure I have more than 14, but that just seemed like a good number in and of itself, so I just used that. I even created other names of them.. like.. Say there's Heph, god of fire (lame, I know). He'd also be called Forgemaster, Flamelord, and other titles that the "common man" might refer to them as. Rather like Pan is also Lord of Greenwood, the Horned One, and other such titles. He has a name, but also titles that others prefer to call him by. Another example is Ilmater from Dungeons and Dragons.. he's also called the Maimed God. Sort of like that. :)

I'll dig out my folder with them on there and let you all in on my little family. I might have to create my own thread for it, so I don't go too off-topic in here with all the specifics and whatnot. :)

I can sometimes see their expressions, but when I created them.. it was for a book. So I had a god of evil and all that, too. I might just change him to the god of shadows or secrets or something, I'm not sure. But I do recall that I had a god of evil.. since it's a medieval fantasy novel. ;)

I'm still working on the psalms and proverbs for the Book of Seasons I'm writing up. I'm adopting that as my own personal book, too, and have taken up calling my Path the Path of Seasons, as what I had for the race of elves I'd created for the book itself. Along with the psalms and proverbs, I plan on making a prayer book.. daily devotions, holidays, general prayers before bed, eating, prayers for chopping wood for a wand or a fire, things of that nature.

So, I plan on going in depth with it.. I just hope I can keep up the motivation. That's a main problem with me.. the motivation. But with y'all there every step of the way.. it shouldn't be too hard. ;)

[Sylv]

I even created other names of them.. like.. Say there's Heph, god of fire (lame, I know). He'd also be called Forgemaster, Flamelord, and other titles that the "common man" might refer to them as.
*grin* I did the same thing-they all have five titles each, referring to various aspects of them, and their major title.
That's cool that you have a name for your path-I haven't thought of one yet. :rolleyes:

I had the same idea about the prayer book-though I focused on my calendar first. I discovered that 365/13=28 plus 1 left over. So I divided my year into 13 4 week 'months', (starting at the Vernal Equinox, so I just celebrated Cedes') with a different deity presiding over each(and the deity's actual holiday is the first of their month), and the day in the exact middle is the day I honor all of them. Since I actually have 14 deities, the twins share their block-which is the one the middle day falls in-with two weeks for Blae, the day for all, and two weeks for Blor. And I was reading about the Bahá'i religion, and discovered that they name their week days after virtues. I found this very, very cool so I did the same.*grin*

Now that I've worked out the calendar and done my first ritual, I must start the prayer book. And writing more myths. I have all my deities, but not many myths at all. lmao

I don't have a family tree-I tend to think of them all as cousins, lol (except for the twins, of course). Though I think I've discovered a relationship between a couple of them that I really wasn't expecting, so I should probably figure out what their relationships are. I have a goddess of the shadows, too, she's not evil, but she does preside over the emotions we tend not to like. She's been the hardest to get to know.

I guess I'd better stop, so I don't go ot either, lol.
It's cool to know a couple other people (I think Schpongle is doing this too) who are doing the same thing. Definitely keeps up the motivation!!!

Edited to make it look nicer. ;)

[Pan]

Here's the family tree for the Deities I made up. :)

Have fun!

Edit: This thing took me THREE HOURS because I couldn't get the blasted lines right! haha! You should have seen me yesterday! Tried for 5 hours and still couldn't get it right! Gave up and splashed that out today. It's crap.. but it's serviceable.

[Mnemosyne]

Wow! Thanks, Loki! I loved the names of the deities.

[Pan]

Thanks! HEre's more about them.

Name: What they control
other names and titles

Leif: Seasons, forests, the sun, nature, weather
Great Father, Lord of Seasons, Woodland Lord

Slindar: The moon, magick, divination, dreams
Great Mother, Moon Lady, Dream Seeker

Vinloth: Darkness, chaos, death, secrets
Chaos Lord, He Who Takes Life, Brother of Secrets

Kahel: War, tactics, warriors, protection, duty, loyalty
Blademaster, Singing Sword, Shield Lord

Minloth: Love, birth, marriage, rebirth, fertility, renewel
Eternal Sister, She Who Gives Life, Red Lady

Rentalium: Bards, song, poetry, creativity, knowledge, history
Lord of Words, Wandering Hand, Historic Brother

Marooki: Mischeif, change, trickery, wit, luck
Twister of Luck, Brother of Jokes, Witty Jester

Aileque: Time, fate, dragons
Lady of Fate, Sister Dragon, Time Queen

Dirganlin: Farming, harvest, gardeners, earth
Treemother, Harvest Maid, She of the Earth

Liandrin: Beauty, the arts, dance, inspiration, fire
Flame of Inspiration, Divine Dancer, Beauteous Lady

Davin: Water, happiness, joy, festivals
King of the Wave, Brother Joybringer, Sir of Festivals

Marn: Money, smithwork, fordge, trade, commerce
Tradesmith, Fordgemaster, He Who Deals

Vrehar: Vengeance, martyrs, fear, torment
Lady of Retribution, Fearful Sacrifice, Vanquisher

Granlas: Hunting, exploration, air
He of the Road, Lord Hunter, Feather Master

Nelia: Hearth, home, family, cooking, herbs
Greenmother, She Who Tends the Home, Allmother
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pronounciation guide!

Leif: LAYF

Slindar: SLIN-dahr

Marn: MAHRN

Vrehar: VRAY-hahr

Kahel: KAH-hell

Liandrin: lee-ANN-drin

Dirganlin: deer-GAIN-lin

Nelia: NELL-ee-uh

Vinloth: VEEN-lohth

Minloth: MEEN-lohth

Granlas: GRAHN-lahs

Rentalium: ren-TAHL-ee-um

Marooki: muh-ROO-kee

Davin: DAY-veen

Aileque: EYE-leck
-----------------------------

Edit: decided to put what each of the bits meant...

[Pan]

As I was putting up my little creations for y'all to see... I began to realise that I don't just connect with one of them. I connect with all of them equally. It's strange because I've never felt this way about any currently-existing pantheon. I think I'll make up a little list of my babies with corresponding gods that I know off the top of my head they could be compared with.

I'm still working on the psalms and proverbs. :) Here's a snippet:

If you understand the budding of a flower, then you understand Me. If you understand the songs of the stars, then you understand Me. Though you understand Me through My gifts to you, seek to understand Me through Me.

Of course, it's rather like the bible in that each god/dess has their own book. That snippet is from the Book of Leif in the Book of Seasons. :) A practioner of the Path of Seasons is called a Seasan.. rather like a Wiccan practises Wicca.. a Seasan practises the Seasons. Get it? :p

[Pan]

I know I'm posting multiple times.. but I'm brainstorming here at the computer. My calendar is.. messed up. Here it is! haha! :T

365/15 = 24.3(repeating)
days of the year/deities (months) = days per month

24/7 = 3.4
months/days per week = weeks per month

So.. I have about 3.4 weeks per month.

I calculated our own calendar now:

Dec, Jan, Feb (winter) = 31 + 31 + 28 = 90
Mar, Apr, May (spring) = 31 + 30 + 31 = 92
Jun, Jul, Aug (summer) = 30 + 31 + 31 = 92
Sep, Oct, Nov (autumn) = 30 + 31 + 30 = 91

Doesnt' winter seem longer?!:o
Okay.. with those.. I put (to start) 25 days per month of mine. That turned out to be 10 too many days! So.. I took out some days from some of the months and here's what I have as a final product!

1) 25
2) 23
3) 22
4) 25
-----------------
95 days of Spring

5) 24
6) 25
7) 24
8) 24
----------------
97 days of Summer

9) 25
10) 25
11) 23
12) 25
------------------
98 days of Autumn

13) 25
14) 25
15) 25
--------------
75 days of Winter

I know winter seems a bit "cheated", but I figured.. Winter's the shortest anyway (not by quite THAT much, but hey, it's my calendar). This is just from the first said day of winter, though wintery weather may start earlier. After all, first day of winter isn't till around Dec 21 anyway!

I did all of this in.. oh.. half an hour? :T8O

Thanks for your help, MW. You're really helping me along with this!

[Grey]

Well I guess this is cool, but it seems a little odd to me... how can you guys put your faith in a pnatheon you created? dosent that go against the idea that the god is more powerful than you? I cna understand even the worship of multiple pantheons, but this... seems somehow disturbing.

[Phoenix Blue]

Why, Grey? Every mythology was created by people at some point, after all. . . some are just newer than others. :)

[Grey]

How can you beleive in something if you know its make beleive? how can you put faith in a personal fantasy? Ive never been of the opion that all mythology was made up, these myths have to come from something real, something that happened in that past. For stories turn to legends and legends into myths, so while they may be changed over the years they came from something true.

Ask a christian if the things in the bible actually happened, most of them will say yes, other will say most of it though some is symbolic. And not just old testament religions either! All relgion is based on the idea that your veiw is right, because if it wasnt how could you continue to follow it?

[Pan]

Coming from one of the people who have voiced that they're making their own pantheon...

I agree Phoenix_Blue. All the gods had to have been made up at one point in time. So did the stories. Sure, they might have had "divine inspiration" or whatever you want to call it, but how do you know that we (we as in those of us who are creating our own pantheon) have not been inspired by the divine?

I don't think it's "make believe" as you put it, Grey. I believe in the pantheon I created. How do you know that I didn't just give them names? That they were already there, waiting to be discovered?

Many people think the Celtic pantheon, Norse, Greek, Roman, ALL the pantheons are "make believe". Many people would ask you why you believe in this or that because it's "fake". To me, this is not "fake". This is real to me. My own personal gods are as real to me as any other god I can name that have already been made up by other people.

I don't believe it goes against the ides that "god is more powerful than you", Grey. It's like with the other gods. They're already there, but at one time you didn't know about them. My gods just happen to have been in the dark of ignorance for longer than Hermes or Hecate. I've just discovered them. Besides, I serve no god.. I work with them.. not for them. I'm no one's servant.

And, just as "they came from something true", how do you know that the myths I'll create don't come from "something true"? They're true to me and that's all that matters. I don't care if you don't agree. I don't care if you call me a fake or someone who is believe in "made up" gods. We all are, to an extent. The only reason they're real is because we believe they are. And, please, don't go saying "so does that mean if I don't believe in this lamp, it won't be there?" this isn't what this whole thing is about.

Making up your own pantheon is like reinventing deities that are already there. Didn't the Greeks and Romans do the same thing? Whoever stole from the other just took gods and renamed them. How do you know that the gods were there in the first place?

You don't.

You can simply believe.

So that's what I'm doing. I'm believing in gods that are more personal to me than any of the other "made up" gods could ever be.

[Sylv]

Hi Grey! I have my own pantheon-but I don't think they're make believe. In fact, I know that they exist. You might not realize why I know that-I can't explain why I know, I just do.

dosent that go against the idea that the god is more powerful than you?
I think there's two seperate ideas in this question. First, in what way are the gods more powerful than me? Like Loki, I definitely don't worship them-I treat them like best friends, and with the same consideration. Second, I don't think of myself as writing myths about them, more that they're dictating their stories to me. So it doesn't go against the idea, imo.

Ask a christian if the things in the bible actually happened, most of them will say yes, other will say most of it though some is symbolic.
Ok, my myths don't have anything to do with the gods talking to people/influencing civilizations. After all, they're my gods, lol. So my myths don't resemble the bible at all. Secondly, I have a slightly different world view than most of the Christians I've met, in that I believe in multiple truths so I can't really compare my religion to Christianity.

All relgion is based on the idea that your veiw is right, because if it wasnt how could you continue to follow it?
My religion is right for me. I don't think it's right for every other person on this planet and I actually like being the only one that prays to my god. I don't think of myself as 'following' my religion-I live it. And I live it because every other alternative simply isn't as appealing.
Hope this answers some of your questions! What are your own beliefs?

[Grey]

I guess you guys have a point, just threw me off a bit... But if you validate these pantheons existance its probly as accurate as anything else.

It just really threw me there...

Just another question: If these being arent more powerful than you what makes them more than just spirits?

[Sylv]

If these being arent more powerful than you what makes them more than just spirits?
As I said in my first reply, what do you mean by more powerful? And what do you mean by spirits? I know it sounds silly but I'm not sure how to answer the question until I know exactly what you're asking. :D

[Pan]

I agree. I mean.. more powerful could mean physically stronger, spiritually stronger, cosmically stronger.. or whatever. They may be more powerful than me in some sense, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to serve them. I'm just a friend that holds high respect and works with them.. rather than for them.

So, like Sylv, could you please define what you mean by "more powerful"?

[Grey]

Good question. To that Id have to say that it seems to be a matter of 1) potency, most gods are in control of there sphere, 2)presence, when a person discribes being in the presence of god they tend to speak of it as a truely awing and overpowering experiance, while with spirits its a deffinate presence but not as strong, not as... corpreal?

And as I think aobut a 3rd thing seems to be apparent, gods seem to be able to either create or destroy things withing their sphere at will. Maybe its that power of form that makes them a god, maybe not.

Ive found one dictionary that says a god is "a supernatural being worshipped by one or more human beings in the from of prayer sacrifice or other display of homage" - in which case it would be a more bowing and seriving thing which dosent seem to fit your idea of a god.

And as for a god being more powerful meaning that you bow and scrape beneath it... look at it this way, the president of the U.S. has more power than most of its citizens but we (in general) dont drop to our knees at the site of him. it happens occaisionally but its a matter of choice there.

as for physicly stronger... I guess that would depend if the god had a physicle body of some sort and if it was ment to be.

And again my appologies if I seemed offensive to begin with, I should have reflected longer before posting the first time. I do however enjoy these discussions.

[She-Arna]

Hmm, I'm a little torn here. I don't want to discourage your creativity, it's a wonderful gift. However, certain myths are sacred and were written so as to teach things, not to make people like them. They carry alot of historical weight. Perhaps try writing yourown versions of the sacred myths?

Do what feels right to you, it's just my opinion that you should exercise caution. :)

[Pan]

Grey: I see the gods as more powerful, but still I don't see a reason to worship them in the traditional sense. By more powerful, I do mean that they can create matter, control it if they want, and things like that. I do leave offerings to them, and I do pray to them.. but I don't bow and scrape for their favour. :) Thanks for explaining what you meant!

She-Arna: These myths will be sacred to me. And the myths that others write will be sacred to them. I don't want to write them to make people like them.. whether you mean the gods or the people writing them. The myths will teach things.. just as "real" myths do. All myths are from some scrap of fact, right? These myths could very well be based on something real. As for "historical weight".. the gods are there, some of them just waiting to be "found" or "named" by those that wish to follow them. Hermes most likely wasn't always sporting the name of Hermes. Someone had to have named him, right? This is the same case. Just because it's more "modern" and not from some ancient civilisation doesn't mean it's any less valid. And I don't understand your opinion of "exercise caution"? What do you mean?

[She-Arna]

"Exercise caution" - by that I mean while writing your own myths canbe a wonderful thing to do, make sure it's done for the right reasons, ie to teach and to express your spirituality, which it sounds like you are doing Loki.

I'm not sure I support the idea of creating your own Pantheon. I respect your decision and reasons for doing so obviously and I'm not in any way trying to change you. It just seems to me that there are already hundreds of Pantheons, Pantheons one could surely connect with if they found the right one, why create another? I don't believe the Gods were created, I believe that some ancient man in the middle of winter prayed for warmth one day and when the sun came out, he called that sun a God and realised that Gods lived in all of nature. Hence the discovery of Deity.

Perhaps you have discovered a pantheon that has long gone without human interaction and your reviving that worship. I don't know. I'm just saying that in my opinion, you don't create Gods, you discover them. :)

I hope you find much happiness with your Path!

[Pan]

Originally posted by Loki Panwit


I believe in the pantheon I created. How do you know that I didn't just give them names? That they were already there, waiting to be discovered?

(snip)

Making up your own pantheon is like reinventing deities that are already there. Didn't the Greeks and Romans do the same thing? Whoever stole from the other just took gods and renamed them. How do you know that the gods were there in the first place?

(snip)

So that's what I'm doing. I'm believing in gods that are more personal to me than any of the other "made up" gods could ever be.


There it is. That's me saying I agree with She-Arna about the discover part. :) So, obviously, I have the same viewpoint. I'm just giving them names, or hearing the names they want to have when I adress them. Who knows, right? ;)

[She-Arna]

Right! :D

[Grey]

I do leave offerings to them, and I do pray to them.. but I don't bow and scrape for their favour. -loki panwit

sound like worship to me, it dosent have to be down on your knees or banging your head into a plate to be worship, its just a reverant offerring of some sort.

[Pan]

I see it as giving gifts to friends.. as well as talking to friends and asking them for favours. They may be gods, but I don't see a reason to hold them up so very high on a pedastal. I just treat them with respect.

I believe, when you pay homage to a god, it's different than when you give gifts to your friends. It doesn't have reverence, necessarily, but it does have love. That eternal love that you feel for friends and things like that.

[Rainx]

My main stumbling block here is I don't believe in Gods, I don't believe they or their stories were made up - I've had Goddess speak *to* me as Sekhmet. I don't believe someone just gave her a name or made her stories up because I have met her at my own shrine. She's not just a name someone made up for some sort of energies, she's a unique individual who I've interacted with.

I'm not sure why some are saying "well some believe all Gods/myths are made up" and then "I'm not making this up, it's not make believe". I figure they are all make believe or none of them are with that thinking. If it's make believe (or DIY as the thread itself says :)) then it's make believe, and if you feel all deities are faces of the Divine with names someone gave them so you can name your own, ok.

I probably have a different outlook on this too because I don't select Gods to 'use' in spellwork or ritual, they select me, so it's not like I'm looking at specific energetic entities and naming them.

[Rainx]

Incidentally, the definition of worship


Main Entry: 1wor·ship
Pronunciation: 'w&r-sh&p
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date: before 12th century
1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

So generally worship is paying reverence to a person of importance or a divine being or supernatural power. Reverence means respect or honor shown. So, essentially in this context it means paying respect to a divine being. *shrugs*

Lately I see Divine operating in various ways - first, transcendent and immanent. And immanent in unique individual personalities and then energy. I see energy as part of transcendant Divine, and as the glue that connects immanent Divine (and ourselves) with that. So, when I want to use energies of a specific type, I bring forth the energies. When I want to work with deity, I work with deity. *shrugs* Different strokes right :)

[Rainx]

Yes I'm posting again - sorry, this subject has been on my mind a lot so I have a lot to say about it lately :D

I often draw a connection between deities as personalities and energies and humans as the same (I see in terms of microcosm and macrocosm - that is, humans are the microcosm of the Divine macrocosm). Thus, we know each of us is a unique individual person, but also the sum of our energies. So, if you took energies and put them together and stuck a name on it, would it be a human?

Part of who we are is not just the energies that make us up, but our experiences, memories, and the people we've interacted with. If there were an identical copy of me, I think what would make me different from it is the experiences each of us had and the memories we kept, and how they shaped us. Those are some of the important things that add up to me being a unique individual human, rather then just a mishmash of energies.

I know Sekhmet is stronger because a) she's a deity, thus she's at a more spiritually pure evolutionary state of existence and b) because she's ancient; lived longer, learned more, observed more, become wiser, gained strength. I see spirits as non physical entities at different stages of existence - younger then deities, and that don't encompass/possess as much energy. I show Sekhmet respect because she deserves it - not because she's "better" but because she's wiser and more powerful and so I can learn from her if she wishes. Worship is how I show respect for and kinship with the Divine - whether it be Divine in the form of energy, nature, a specific deity, or transcendant unknowable.

And in case I haven't made it clear, I always say if it works for you do it! As long as you have solid reasoning behind what you believe and are doing, go for it. I'm only posting here to say why this or that might or might not work for me - not to say you should or shouldn't do it!

[Pan]

When you put "worship" like that, I can understand why I would be worshipping these gods. When I was growing up, worship meant.. basically blind faith. But when you thoroughly explained it to me, I can understand it better. :)

By "made-up" it's not necessarily make-believe. When you write something, even factual, you put it into your own words. I guess I should have just said that, rather than "made-up". Sorry about that. 8O

As per the gods and myths themselves. We'll use Zues as an example for the gods. He's ancient, wise, powerful, and more spiritually evolved than I am. He's the same as Jupiter, who could be seen as similar to Odin. It crosses the different pantheons because of similarities in energies and experiences. In my own pantheon, I may or may not have someone that directly copies Odin, Zeus, or Jupiter. I have someone that's rather similar to Aphrodite, though.

I guess, with Rainx's help in understanding worship, that I do worship the deities I "created". They're stronger, wiser, and more spiritual than I am. I have great respect for them, honour them, and maybe even revere them. Though I don't bow and scrape for their favour like what I used to perceive worship as, I do leave them gifts and talk to them. I see it as giving a new name to an existing god.

Why did I do this at all? Well.. that reason is because I couldn't find a full pantheon that went well with me. The Celtic, I could only find 2 that I liked to work with. Egyptian maybe had one, but I don't much like the Egyptian pantheon. Greek/Roman, I've always liked, but I can't really find a pantheon that really clicks with me, no matter how much research I've done and all that.

I'm not saying I took the easy way out by finding my own pantheon. This feels more personal to me. It makes me feel more self-empowered when I work with these beings. It makes me feel I can work with them endlessly because we already know each other on a personal basis.

By including myths, a calendar, and all that with my pantheon, I truly make it my own. I feel closer to these gods than any I have ever worked with before.

If it's not for you, I respect that totally. :D It's great that you found spirituality! This is right for me. I feel strongly in what I'm doing.

[Rainx]

If it works for you, do it :D Most people would just work from Gods from various pantheons at once.

[Sylv]

Just as a warning, this is probably going to be a long post-I've been gone for a few days and missed so much fun! :D

Good question. To that Id have to say that it seems to be a matter of 1) potency, most gods are in control of there sphere, 2)presence, when a person discribes being in the presence of god they tend to speak of it as a truely awing and overpowering experiance, while with spirits its a deffinate presence but not as strong, not as... corpreal?
Ok, I really like the last part of that (2)-I definitely believe that the gods are more powerful than me in their own sphere. I'm not that arrogant, lol-I just wasn't sure what you meant (because I think I have more power over my own life).

And again my appologies if I seemed offensive to begin with, I should have reflected longer before posting the first time. I do however enjoy these discussions.
hehe-I didn't think you were offensive. Just had a different view-I enjoy the discussions too.

However, certain myths are sacred and were written so as to teach things, not to make people like them. They carry alot of historical weight.
That's exactly why I write my own, She-Arna. The gods/myths of other cultures to me have too much baggage. That sounds negative-it's not supposed to be but I couldn't think of how else to put it. I know some deities from various panthesons that I really like. However, I'm not an ancient Egyptian, ancient Greek, or ancient Celt. I'm a 21st century American. I do believe I've had past lives, but that doesn't change what I am right now. I needed gods that grew out of my culture-my own history, my own morals, values, and principles. I firmly believe that I didn't 'make-up' my gods (despite my thread title Rainx-I was trying to figure out a way to explain it so people would check the thread out, lol)-I sent out a call to the universe and they responded. They tell me their stories, and their ethics happen to match mine-it's not a coincidence, it's because I asked for them-clearly defining what I needed and what I would give. I think (hope) my gods are as happy with the situation as I am. :D

It just seems to me that there are already hundreds of Pantheons, Pantheons one could surely connect with if they found the right one, why create another?
I've pretty much already commented on this-I need a pantheon of me. Just out of curiousity, what do you think about people who 'create' their own pantheon by praying to gods of various pantheons?

I'm just saying that in my opinion, you don't create Gods, you discover them.
*nods* I agree-I also think that the gods reveal themselves to you.

My main stumbling block here is I don't believe in Gods, I don't believe they or their stories were made up - I've had Goddess speak *to* me as Sekhmet.
Rainx-this may seem silly, but I'm very confused about this statement. It seems like first you say you don't believe in gods, then you say a goddess has spoken to you. I'm sure I'm reading it weird or something-could you clarify?

She's not just a name someone made up for some sort of energies, she's a unique individual who I've interacted with.
That's how my gods are too-they're definitely individuals, not archetypes. :D

If it's make believe (or DIY as the thread itself says ) then it's make believe, and if you feel all deities are faces of the Divine with names someone gave them so you can name your own, ok.
I don't think that they're all just faces of the divine(any more than we're all faces of humanity-only in a metaphorical sense)-I think they're beings who revealed themselves to me when I asked. :) They gave me their names, not vice versa-do you think that's possible/ok?

I show Sekhmet respect because she deserves it - not because she's "better" but because she's wiser and more powerful and so I can learn from her if she wishes.
I love this sentence. Way to go Rainx!

If it works for you, do it Most people would just work from Gods from various pantheons at once.
I can't do this because of my cultural issues. For all I know, I might be working with a being who also was an ancient deity, and they might be from different pantheons. I'm almost afraid to ask them all their past, lol-to me they appear as one cohesive pantheon.
That's it-kudos to whoever revived this thread (I think it was Grey...) and let's keep the discussion alive!

[Sylv]

I was rereading my old posts, and I realized why you said

However, certain myths are sacred and were written so as to teach things, not to make people like them.
I guess my remark that I was creating my own pantheon because I didn't like some of the things the gods did sounded flippant (in hindsight), though that's not the way I meant it. What I meant was, myths are supposed to teach/explain things and some of the myths teach things that I don't 'like' in that I don't agree with the lesson. For example, in the Greek/Hellenic myth to explain the changing seasons, Persephone is out picking wildflowers when Hades sees her and likes her. Instead of trying to talk to or court her, he kidnaps her and then tricks her into a pomegranate seed so that she must stay with him part of the year (I'm writing off the top of my head, so if I made a mistake feel free to correct). I could never talk to Hades, or pray to him, because of this story-I always wanted to incarcerate him instead! I just can't connect with many of the old gods' characters (in all cultures)-many of them seem to be cruel in a pretty random way, or over-react, or force their will on mortals without even trying to reason with them first. Also, many of the things 'taught' I see as wrong. For example, in ancient Egyptian myth the sun was boated across the sky everyday (Rainx-I'm sure you know more particulars). I believe that the earth revolves around the sun, therefore a myth like that wouldn't teach me anything. So that's what I meant when I said I didn't 'like' the myths. I'm revealing (maybe that's a better word than creating) my own pantheon to "teach and to express your spirituality" so hopefully you can understand my reasons!

[Rainx]

hi again :wave:


I sent out a call to the universe and they responded. They tell me their stories, and their ethics happen to match mine

Ok.. so.. you are calling for Gods and they come to you, not creating them? How do you know they're Gods rather then.. say.. bored spirits who thought it'd be fun to mess with you? How do you determine what a God is, and why do entities spring into existence to fit into your myths? Where do they come from, and how are they created? If their ethics happen to match yours and they fit into your myths, have they created themselves or you created them?

The thing is, I could understand this from the viewpoint that all faces are part of one Divine - in that case, one could say each face is an archetype of that Divine, that each represents a doorway to energies that are useful in myths. That it's possible to create deities because all deities were created in a way as egregores or archetypes, faces of that Divine. But you say that's not what you believe.


It seems like first you say you don't believe in gods, then you say a goddess has spoken to you.

Nope you're reading it right. I don't believe in Gods. Starhawk said something along the lines of how one doesn't believe in rocks, one knows they exist. I don't believe in Sekhmet, I know she exists, I've met her. Since I haven't met an entity or someone that can convince me they are a new God, or how Gods can be created, it's not something I personally believe in right now.

It might help you to see myths as metaphorical truths of existence, rather then literal truths, as well. Just like yours share truths about you, the ancient myths share truths in a metaphorical sense and form the basis of entire ancient cultures. That's why they're myths :)

Modern Kemetics know the sun is not moved across the sky by boat in a literal sense, but still can find profound meaning in it being a metaphorical idea of the importance of Netjer and the sun. Each myth reveals a bit about the culture from whence it came, sometimes underlining the positive things, and sometimes underlining negative things.. because after all, the universe is positive and negative.

[Sylv]

Ok.. so.. you are calling for Gods and they come to you, not creating them?
Yep-I certainly don't think that I created deities, lol. Kind of like, they reveal themselves the same way that others are shown their 'patron' gods, but mine also tell me their own stories.

How do you know they're Gods rather then.. say.. bored spirits who thought it'd be fun to mess with you?
How do you know Sekhmet isn't just a bored spirit? *shrugs* I guess in the end I just know-I have spirit friends too, and they always feel different. Maybe they are just bored spirits, maybe they're really figures of my own desperately lonely imagination, but I don't really think that.

How do you determine what a God is, and why do entities spring into existence to fit into your myths?
I didn't write myths and then say "Ok, what god did this?" first I had a connection with my deities, and then I discovered their stories. I don't think they sprung into existence. If I put an ad in a newspaper that asked for a nanny with a bachelor's degree in early childhood development who was willing to work every day but Tuesdays and Thursdays, if someone answered the ad it isn't because they suddenly sprung into existence. It's because they want to have the job, and they know they have the characteristics that I'm looking for. Same with the gods-I guess my gods were looking for some mortals, discovered what I needed to help me in my life, and decided that we would have a good relationship.

Where do they come from, and how are they created?
See above.

If their ethics happen to match yours and they fit into your myths, have they created themselves or you created them?
Ok the myth thing applies again-I didn't write myths until after I knew my gods. I don't see why an act of creation had to take place at all....I think they just existed. I don't think my prayer/call/ad/whatever you want to call it made deities pop up out of a cloud or anything. I don't know about you, but I'm attracted to people who have the same basic values as me. My friends and I tend to have similarities about principles in life (though we vary on a lot of other things). My gods were attracted to me because they knew we had similar ethics. It wasn't a coincidence-I'm sure a lot of deities ignored me because of various things I don't like, or do like. Hope I'm making myself clear. :)

I don't believe in Sekhmet, I know she exists, I've met her.
Ok, now I understand. I feel the same way, but using 'belief' is an easier way to get across what I mean. Less typing to say 'I believe in my gods' than 'I know my gods exist', lol.

Since I haven't met an entity or someone that can convince me they are a new God, or how Gods can be created
I never said my gods were new gods, or suddenly created. My gods have probably been around for aeons, and they may have even changed views in that time. Perhaps some ancient war god thought about it, decided he preferred peace, and know looks for followers that think peace is the best state. Obviously, that's a little extreme, but I don't understand why my gods have to be new gods, instead of just having a new name.

It might help you to see myths as metaphorical truths of existence, rather then literal truths, as well.
I do see them as metaphorical truths. Obviously, myths aren't literal-the boat example was a response to She-Arna's comment that ancient myths are supposed to teach cultures things. I wasn't attacking Kemeticism. :) I think it's great you find meaning in the myth-it simply doesn't speak to me. I don't belong to the ancient Egyptian culture (much as I like playing Pharaoh!), and their truths aren't my truths.
In conclusion, I don't think there'a huge difference between praying to traditional gods, and praying to untraditional ones.
The fact that your patron deity called herself Sekhmet doesn't necessarily make her Sekhmet-she could be a bored spirit. So could mine. Just because one of my goddesses gave her name as Nimua doesn't make her less ancient, or wise, or legitimate. I don't think I created her, and I doubt she created herself. I don't know how gods came to exist, any more than I know how the universe, the olive tree, and my cat Cora came into existence. I might tell stories that reflect how I think they came into existence, but in the end all I really know is that they all do exist, and that all the questions in the world can't be answered.

[Pan]

Bump

[Strawberry Bounce]

:woot: I really enjoyed reading this thread!


Have any of you written your own myths?

I am wrtitng my own Wheel of the year. I got the idea from Shekhinah Mountainwater's book Ariadne's Thread.


Do you think it's wrong/that they don't hold as much power/etc.?

I see nothing wrong with it. Since it is deeply personal, it does hold power.

[Agaliha]

:bumpsmili

I'm glad I found this thread.
It's an interesting topic.


..............

[Windsmith]

I recently wrote my own version of the Wheel of the Year. I envisioned it as a love story between Earth and Sun. It came out sounding a little bit more like a New Age self-help guide than anything I would like to claim as my own, but it's already helped me connect more with the Sabbats than I had before, so it's doing its job.

For my priestess training, I also had to write my own personal cosmology. That was a trip, lemme tell ya!

[aluokaloo]

Hi! I'm new here (well, I've been lurking awhile ;)) but I wanted to ask everyone a question. I'm in the process of developing my own mythology-much as I enjoy reading about a lot of deities out there, they either do things in stories that I'm not sure I like (I'm sure they care, lol) or the myths don't reflect my values. That's why I'm writing my own-plus this way it's all in my culture and I'll know the reasoning behind all the myths.
So how do you guys feel about that? Have any of you written your own myths? Do you think it's wrong/that they don't hold as much power/etc.?
Oh, and for those of you who have tried writing your own, if you have any links or books or whatever that deal with the subject I'd be much obliged. :)


Not about deities, but when i was school, I wrote a myth on how the unipeg came to be.

[WanderingSoul]

I have wrote my own basic creation epic, and have created 21 deities to go with it. It is the most profound experience I have had so far with divine beings. And the idea of a wheel of the year is intriguing to me. I have considered modifying national and secular holidays as well as seasonal landmarks into holidays that correlate with my mythos. If anyone would like to see my mythos, feel free to visit my new website. It's humble, but it gets the point across:
http://underath.tripod.com

[Agaliha]

I'm currently writing my own myths.
Right now all I have is a seasonal one.
There really isn't much emphasis on any Deites, but it still works. I see the Gods as archetypes and symbols anyway so they are there...just in a different way.
It started out as a writing exercise and just branched out. It helped me understand myself and my views and such.
:)

[WanderingSoul]

Keep in mind that the very first myths of early civilization had deities that were potrayed as very mysterious, and often were not given definitive physical and or mental forms. Whether it be 1 or 100, any personal mythos you might create will be just as powerful and true. :)

[chrestomancie]

I am also happy that I found this thread! I will have to do some dreaming and meditating. This may be why I am such a good writer...

[raminda]

Very interesting idea, and something I've never even considered myself. Hmm.