What is Heaven and Hell

[Vampiel]

Notice the implications this has for the orthodox notion of hell: Hell is not a place you are condemned to. Hell is a place where one has turned their back on God and in doing so, turned their back on the one thing that offers them sanctification and the resurrection to eternal life. It's not some evil place that a contradictory notion of God has created in order to punish people. It must necessarily exist if humans are to have free will. There must be a place where it is optional to eternally reject God, His graces and the eternal life.

This also has implications for the status of certain individuals in their journey towards theosis and towards their becoming in union with Christ. Sainthood is bestowed by the Catholic Church and by the Eastern Orthodox Churches (and maybe the Oriental Orthodoxy?) as a recognition that certain individuals are already eternally partaking in God's divine nature. In short, the mission of the Christ's Church was to provide for anyone who wants it the necessary graces for sainthood. The Church wants to make people saints.

In multiple instances of the bible it suggests that hell is a lake of fire that one is cast into for eternity.

What is hell? What is heaven?

Do people that have never been exposed to Christianity goto heaven or hell?

[Brónach Druid]

I am not going to give definitions for heaven and hell, I assume you are looking for some sort of personal definition and since I don't believe in either I don't have one.
However as to your second question, it depends on which form of Christianity you follow. Most Fundamentalists and other Evangelicals believe the only way to heaven is to have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that all non-believers go to hell.
Many others however, believe that non-christians can go to heaven.

[GabrielWithoutWings]

In multiple instances of the bible it suggests that hell is a lake of fire that one is cast into for eternity.

What is hell? What is heaven?

Hell and Heaven are the same place. They are both places where one experiences the Presence of God.

To those who are saved, this feels pleasant, like a warm and soothing light.

To those who are damned, this feels excruciating, like consuming fire.


Do people that have never been exposed to Christianity goto heaven or hell?

Only God knows who goes where.

[john.a]

In multiple instances of the bible it suggests that hell is a lake of fire that one is cast into for eternity.

The Bible is a collection of works orally handed down and later written by a variety of authors spanning human history, spanning a diversity of genres. The interpretive tradition that is the Catholic Church has long since endorsed the existence of literary devices called the metaphor and the simile within the divine literary work that is the totality of Scripture.

[Cunae]

Hell and Heaven are the same place. They are both places where one experiences the Presence of God.

To those who are saved, this feels pleasant, like a warm and soothing light.

To those who are damned, this feels excruciating, like consuming fire.



Only God knows who goes where.


I like your answer. Hadn't heard it put this way before.

I don't worry much about defining heaven and hell. The next realm is what it is.

[nannymouse]

Tahiti

Tonopah

[Pagan's Sword]

Heaven and hell is what we make 'em. My idea of heaven might be someone else's idea of hell and vice versa. And believe me when I tell you, you can suffer both heaven and hell right here on this earthly existence. :hairred:

[Bix]

I've heard that heaven is the presence of God and hell is the absence of God. That seems the best answer I can give and the one that rings the most true for me.

[LacyRoze]

I've heard that heaven is the presence of God and hell is the absence of God. That seems the best answer I can give and the one that rings the most true for me.

+1

[Gladeflower]

the 13:th plane. where the first is earth and second is astral ;D
Source http://beta.coasttocoastam.com/photogallery/view/bruce-goldberg-images-11-24-09/42403
lol

[Bix]

the 13:th plane. where the first is earth and second is astral ;D
Source http://beta.coasttocoastam.com/photogallery/view/bruce-goldberg-images-11-24-09/42403
lol

What magical system is that from?

[Gladeflower]

mr goldbergs model on out of body experiences.
He means that the 13:th is what people have described as heaven
Even i have read about religions and gnostic thoughts that names 7 or 13 planes of existence where the last is heaven

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I've heard that heaven is the presence of God and hell is the absence of God. That seems the best answer I can give and the one that rings the most true for me.

Possibly, but that would imply that God is not omnipresent.

The Orthodox state that Heaven and Hell are the same place. I've read that one view on Hell is that God didn't make it. We did.

[Cunae]

Hell is a place where the motorists are French, the policemen are German, and the cooks are English. -Author Unknown :toofless:

[winter rose]

Possibly, but that would imply that God is not omnipresent.

The Orthodox state that Heaven and Hell are the same place. I've read that one view on Hell is that God didn't make it. We did.

I don't really understand - how could Heaven and Hell be the same thing? How could Heaven be Hell if you believed in God at all -wouldn't that be Heaven?

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I don't really understand - how could Heaven and Hell be the same thing? How could Heaven be Hell if you believed in God at all -wouldn't that be Heaven?

Because if Hell is the absence of God, that would imply that God is not everywhere, which would imply that He is not Sovereign over creation.

All people wind up in the presence of God. It's how they react to God's Presence that determines whether they are "in" Hell or Heaven.

Like I said, a person who accepted Christ's sacrifice, defeating Death with Death, and throwing open the Gates of Hades, would find joy and fulfillment in the presence of God.

A person who turned away from God and rejected his free gift would find God's presence to be unbearable agony, not by God's doing, but each person's own.

Make sense now?

[Cloaked Raven]

Because if Hell is the absence of God, that would imply that God is not everywhere, which would imply that He is not Sovereign over creation.

All people wind up in the presence of God. It's how they react to God's Presence that determines whether they are "in" Hell or Heaven.

Like I said, a person who accepted Christ's sacrifice, defeating Death with Death, and throwing open the Gates of Hades, would find joy and fulfillment in the presence of God.

A person who turned away from God and rejected his free gift would find God's presence to be unbearable agony, not by God's doing, but each person's own.

Make sense now?
This.

It makes perfect sense to me. :)

[Bix]

Well, that's how I can rationalized the absence of God. You know He's there but choose to turn away from him instead. I guess I see it as more ignoring Him than Him not being there. Sorry, should have clarified.

[angle kitsune]

First off the bible tells us directly that everyone goes to one place as we are all the same. when we die we are all equal, we are all dust.
"All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust." Ecclesiastes 3;20

Second, to be tortured for eternity after death we would need to be conscious after death, assuming some part of us continues after the body dies. again the bible tells us directly that this is not so.

"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." Ecclesiastes 9;5

what is hell then?

"O that in She´ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" Job 14:13



why would job pray to go to hell or sheol?


She'ol is one of the words translated in many bibles as hell. She'ol means 'grave' or 'pit' and is used the term used for the common grave of mankind and nothing more.


The book of revelation speaks of death and Hades being thrown into a lake of fire, as death and Hades are not physical objects they can not be burned. With this logic we can understand that the lake of fire in its self is symbolic of their destruction.


another word translated as hell is 'Gehenna' and it refers to the valley of Hinnom, outside the walls of Jerusalem. When Jesus was on earth, this valley was used as a garbage dump, "where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast." (Smith's Dictionary of the Bible) The fires were kept burning by adding sulfur to burn up the refuse. Jesus used that valley as a proper symbol of everlasting destruction.



"But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.” Rev 21:8 At no point in the bible is it written that people will be tormented for eternity.


I would not call a God who would torment people for eternity for their mistakes a loving God. Really it seems cold and heartless to do that. 'God is love' 1st john 4:16

[Chicory_Witch]

It is my biggest problem with Christianity. Not Christ, his teachings, or legends, but the ending results.

Heaven and Hell are what you make of them. To some, worshiping God for all of forever would be Hellish while others seek Heaven's glory with every breath.

To answer the latter question, in my humble opinion, it depends on who you ask. If the word is true then those who don't know God and fail to accept him, so babies, mental handicaps and isolated peoples, will all go to Hell in a hand basket. This is not the loving God people want to accept, so others might say that God has already forgiven these people and show them the light when they arrive. Giving them a chance to decide. A sort of "Forgive them Father, they know not better" situation. No one should condemn a little child to a lake of fire, torture, pain and endlessness. Not even God.

[john.a]

It is my biggest problem with Christianity. Not Christ, his teachings, or legends, but the ending results.

Heaven and Hell are what you make of them. To some, worshiping God for all of forever would be Hellish while others seek Heaven's glory with every breath.

To answer the latter question, in my humble opinion, it depends on who you ask. If the word is true then those who don't know God and fail to accept him, so babies, mental handicaps and isolated peoples, will all go to Hell in a hand basket. This is not the loving God people want to accept, so others might say that God has already forgiven these people and show them the light when they arrive. Giving them a chance to decide. A sort of "Forgive them Father, they know not better" situation. No one should condemn a little child to a lake of fire, torture, pain and endlessness. Not even God.

I am not bashing you and I respect the validity of any experience you've ever had with Christianity, but I think the caricature of heaven, hell and salvation that you've portrayed is inaccurate, at least with respect to my own Christian tradition, Catholicism. I think I will, in a new post, write some prose about my own reflections on God and heaven to share the Catholic point of view. =)