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Corvis Canis Latrans
December 7th, 2009, 03:16 PM
Exactly what does this mean?

I am not a Christian, but do view Jesus as at a minimum a symbol of a path I try to follow, and possibly a real person or entity.

Of course, within certain limits and give or take regarding spiritual ideals, to a degree those of us who view Jesus like this tend to project our own spiritual ideals onto him.

To me, accepting him and his path never meant calling myself one faith over another, and if historical evidence is accurate, Christianity didn't develop until about a century after Christ's death, as far as I can see if he did indeed exist, he intended at most a reform.

But I'm wondering what the more traditional views are.

I'm not going to be articulating things very well, perhaps because of the usual conundrum for finding a vocabulary for something that is considered to be beyond language, but:

How does one accept Jesus as their savior?

What are the "mechanics" behind being "saved" (as in, just what is the process that the spirit, soul, is thought to go through, etc)?

How does anyone know whether they've truly accepted Christ as savior or if they are only wanting an easy way out of what they view as their sins? Is it possible to know for certain?
(This is the question that bothers me the most. My own cynical belief regarding this one is that even taking for granted that this happens and that people can accept Jesus and be saved is that people are mostly afraid to face themselves and what they've done, and they would burden Jesus rather than face and work through the truth of who they are. I think that in many cases such is necessary in order to work through things, but being "saved" does involve working through and changing yourself from the inside, and it's not just a simple matter of saying you've accepted Jesus and are saved. Most people who say this might believe it, but really haven't done so).

Thoughts?

Cunae
December 7th, 2009, 03:32 PM
I am uncomfortable with the term "saved." Sounds like everyone else is "lost." I am a Christian, a follower of Christ and an acceptor of His advocacy with God. I accept His sacrifice on my behalf and believe His promise of redeeming grace... as His follower. That means I am supposed to follow His example when He was with us, but I am merely human and mess up a lot. His sacrifice allows me to remain in God's grace even so.

Cloaked Raven
December 7th, 2009, 03:47 PM
"Saved" is a term I associate more with those on a fundamental Christian path. I'm not "saved", I just feel that following Christ's teachings is the right path for me, that's all. :)

To me, accepting Christ as my savior means emulating him too... Accepting others for who they are and forgiveness. He loved all people, no matter what path they were on and forgave even those who tortured him and put him on the cross.


How does anyone know whether they've truly accepted Christ as savior or if they are only wanting an easy way out of what they view as their sins? Is it possible to know for certain?

I grew up within Christianity... For me, it's not an easy way out of any sin I may have committed. Being Christian is a way of life for me. :)

Falling Star
December 7th, 2009, 03:50 PM
"Saved" is a term I associate more with those on a fundamental Christian path. I'm not "saved", I just feel that following Christ's teachings is the right path for me, that's all. :)

To me, accepting Christ as my savior means emulating him too... Accepting others for who they are and forgiveness. He loved all people, no matter what path they were on and forgave even those who tortured him and put him on the cross.



I grew up within Christianity... For me, it's not an easy way out of any sin I may have committed. Being Christian is a way of life for me. :)





I couldn't have put it better myself, thankyou Cloaked Raven!

Cloaked Raven
December 7th, 2009, 04:00 PM
I couldn't have put it better myself, thankyou Cloaked Raven!
You're very welcome. :)

Cunae
December 7th, 2009, 04:01 PM
I couldn't have put it better myself, thankyou Cloaked Raven!


It is a beautiful response, Cloaky!

Cloaked Raven
December 7th, 2009, 04:03 PM
It is a beautiful response, Cloaky!
Thanks MC. :)

john.a
December 8th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Exactly what does this mean?
...
How does one accept Jesus as their savior?

What are the "mechanics" behind being "saved" (as in, just what is the process that the spirit, soul, is thought to go through, etc) ?

Salvation for Catholics is different from salvation for Protestants. For us, heaven is a place of perfection where Divine Justice has meted out that no sin can exist because sin is a disorder of creation. Humanity can rid itself of this disorder by uniting one's self to Christ's death and resurrection. In this union, we ourselves "die" with Christ and so do our sins. The very same union with Christ connects us to His resurrection and we too become heirs of that resurrection. This resurrection isn't simply just a re-animation of our human bodies but a transformation of human nature and the attainment of theosis.

This union is brought about in three ways. First, we must intellectually assent to Christ's death and resurrection as true and we must honestly desire the consequences of His death and resurrection for our souls. This is because God has made a commitment to human freedom and the dignity of human devotion. We devote ourselves to God and to our own salvation out of our own desire. Freedom (from sin) cannot be forced upon anyone or it is no longer freedom. In this first step, adult catechumans seek baptism as a sign of their own intellectual assent but also because baptism (cross-denominationally) places an indelible stamp on the soul and prepares it as a vessel for God's grace. Since Catholics practice infant baptism, confirmation is the sacrament for cradle-Catholics who wish to confirm their faith. Secondly, Catholics, through the continuous reception of the Eucharist, mystically unite themselves to Christ and His death and His resurrection. Thirdly, we believe that we co-operate with our own redemption. Protestants accuse us of believing we are saved "by works" rather than "by Grace" but this is a misrepresentation. We express the Grace of god through human activity. If you truly believe the theological system that has already been set up above, then one cannot help but participate in God's plan of redemption for all souls. We can unite our works and our prayers to Christ for the redemption ofthe whole world.


Does anyone know whether they've truly accepted Christ as savior or if they are only wanting an easy way out of what they view as their sins? Is it possible to know for certain?

(This is the question that bothers me the most. My own cynical belief regarding this one is that even taking for granted that this happens and that people can accept Jesus and be saved is that people are mostly afraid to face themselves and what they've done, and they would burden Jesus rather than face and work through the truth of who they are. I think that in many cases such is necessary in order to work through things, but being "saved" does involve working through and changing yourself from the inside, and it's not just a simple matter of saying you've accepted Jesus and are saved. Most people who say this might believe it, but really haven't done so).

The whole process of salvation and sanctification begins with human desire and human will. The first step was an intellectual assent of the human will to want salvation. Why would anyone want a Christ or want a Messiah if one had no insight into their own faults, short-comings and their own sins? And why want a Christ or Messiah if faults, short-comings and sins are just something you can work through on your own? You only need a Christ or a Messiah when you realize the gravity and the destructive nature of sin. In Catholic thought, it is an objective disorder in all creation. It is a direct rejection of God's eternal love and God's presence. Only within this context of hating sin, yet loving the soul that God gave you, does one desire and need salvation.

You cannot just "accept Jesus as your saviour" and "be saved" yet not face yourself and your faults and short-comings. It's impossible. It's not like the minute you are baptized, confirmed and start doing good things are your sins forgiven. It's not an automatic process. Everything involves human will, human activity and human desire in co-operation with God's grace. We are never forced by God to repent of any given sin. We must simply want to and access the channel of Grace that He has provided: through the sacrament of Reconciliation or "Confession", Catholics lay every sin down at the foot of the cross and to do that, we need to be quite aware of them. And approaching God and Jesus and His cross laden with these sins is an excruciatingly humble experience for the human soul. Remember that we don't "burden" Jesus. We carry our own burdens, feel the weight of sin and walk our own Via Dolorosa before laying these sins at the cross.

In addition, it's common Catholic practice to examine your conscience and your daily activity every evening before bed. In this way are we humbled, yet also do we recognize the fruits of our good works and we offer these up for the salvation of all souls. You make it sound like living a life of virtue and complete honesty with one's self is an easy thing. =P

Sorry for the long post. Soteriology (the theological study of salvation) is a huge field in theology and trying to condense 2000 years of Catholic thought on salvation into a post is kind of hard. Haha.

faye_cat
December 9th, 2009, 04:51 PM
"Saved" is a term I associate more with those on a fundamental Christian path. I'm not "saved", I just feel that following Christ's teachings is the right path for me, that's all. :)

To me, accepting Christ as my savior means emulating him too... Accepting others for who they are and forgiveness. He loved all people, no matter what path they were on and forgave even those who tortured him and put him on the cross.



I grew up within Christianity... For me, it's not an easy way out of any sin I may have committed. Being Christian is a way of life for me. :)
I agree with this.

Erisek
December 9th, 2009, 08:17 PM
As a Catholic Christian I see being "saved" as not something that just happens and then BAM, you're set. Both instances of the Bible which I know of that talk about being "saved" show that it is something that happens on the future - not now.

They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." (Acts 16:31)

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16)

Catholicism teaches (through the Sacraments, prayer, etc) that we have to know Christ. This is vital to the faith, and to me, this is what I believe will make salvation possible. Believing is the first part of it.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:23)

"One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him." (John 14:21)