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kaosxmage
December 23rd, 2009, 06:13 PM
As the title of the thread suggests, I'm curious about The New Hermetics by Jason Augustus Newcomb. (http://www.amazon.com/New-Hermetics-Century-Magick-Illumination/dp/1578633052/ref=pd_sim_b_1)

Has anyone read it? What are your thoughts?

Cheers!

--Kaos

Alkhemia
December 26th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Greetings Kaos!

I have read it and was initially excited by Newcomb's paradigm. The New Hermetics represented a break from the tightly-structured CM systems that I was accustomed to and I enjoyed adding different 'tools' to my magickal toolbox. His book is a good launching-off pad for further studies into using NLP, Leary's theories, etc., for ritualistic purposes.


Alkhemia

Xander67
December 26th, 2009, 10:28 PM
I haven't read it yet but plan on it. After reading Alkhemia (http://mysticwicks.com/member.php?u=11695)'s post I may push it up on my to read list. I think it will be nice to be able to add more tools and incorporate some new ideas into it.

kaosxmage
December 27th, 2009, 02:02 AM
Greetings Kaos!

I have read it and was initially excited by Newcomb's paradigm. The New Hermetics represented a break from the tightly-structured CM systems that I was accustomed to and I enjoyed adding different 'tools' to my magickal toolbox. His book is a good launching-off pad for further studies into using NLP, Leary's theories, etc., for ritualistic purposes.


Alkhemia

Those are some of the things that interested me in this book. I'm a Certified Hypnotherapist, and quite skilled with various NLP techniques. I wonder how he might be tying these in to Magick. I'm not as well versed in Ceremonial Magick despite my curiosity every few years. I'm always put off by the Abrahamic elements of the various practices. I do enjoy the Kybalion, and you can't avoid some of Crowley's work when you've been involved in Chaos Magick as long as I have, but that's really all the Hermetics I've delved into.

Thanks for the input!

--Kaos

sidhe
December 28th, 2009, 08:34 AM
I've got it, and love it. The idea of doing all the rituals via visualization is far more practical than creating the space to do so physically, though I do feel that the physical aspect of the rituals (LBRP, etc.) is important to experience.

The NLP section is golden. I'm hoping he releases the rest of the materials soon.

Much like 21st Century Mage, he takes an old, confining concept and turns it on its head, then kicks it a few time 'til it starts behaving. :D

kaosxmage
December 28th, 2009, 04:03 PM
I've got it, and love it. The idea of doing all the rituals via visualization is far more practical than creating the space to do so physically, though I do feel that the physical aspect of the rituals (LBRP, etc.) is important to experience.

The NLP section is golden. I'm hoping he releases the rest of the materials soon.

Much like 21st Century Mage, he takes an old, confining concept and turns it on its head, then kicks it a few time 'til it starts behaving. :D

Thank you for the input Sidhe! That's convinced me to give this book a try. :thumbsup:

--Kaos

sidhe
December 28th, 2009, 04:19 PM
Oh - here's how NLP ties into magick: you use NLP to enhance meditation. If you have trouble with visualizations, look up and to the right while doing them, etc.

kaosxmage
December 28th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Oh - here's how NLP ties into magick: you use NLP to enhance meditation. If you have trouble with visualizations, look up and to the right while doing them, etc.

I wondered what approach he would take with that. It makes sense; however, NLP techniques are really best suited for communication. I thought he might be restructuring language pattern within rituals.

--Kaos

sidhe
December 28th, 2009, 05:21 PM
I wondered what approach he would take with that. It makes sense; however, NLP techniques are really best suited for communication. I thought he might be restructuring language pattern within rituals.

--Kaos

He does use some of the communicative techniques as well. However, what I find interesting is that the entire program is structured more like Argentum Astrum than the Golden Dawn. The student sets their own pace, and judges their own progress. Thus, there are no rituals, really, to restructure, just exercises for balancing aspects of the psyche based on elemental associations.

kaosxmage
December 28th, 2009, 05:27 PM
He does use some of the communicative techniques as well. However, what I find interesting is that the entire program is structured more like Argentum Astrum than the Golden Dawn. The student sets their own pace, and judges their own progress. Thus, there are no rituals, really, to restructure, just exercises for balancing aspects of the psyche based on elemental associations.

This is off topic, but I started the thread :hyper:

You say it's structured more like Argentum Astrum than the Golden Dawn. I've never peered too deep into those orders, but I always imagined they were part of the same line of thought and practice. How is is that they differ?

--Kaos

sidhe
December 28th, 2009, 07:30 PM
This is off topic, but I started the thread :hyper:

You say it's structured more like Argentum Astrum than the Golden Dawn. I've never peered too deep into those orders, but I always imagined they were part of the same line of thought and practice. How is is that they differ?

--Kaos

It's group-oriented vs. individual-oriented. The G.'.D.'. had a visible body of members, lodge meetings, business, discussions, officers, etc. If you were a 0=0 initiate, you learned from a range of people depending on their expertise, had people helping you along, etc. It would resemble a cloud if lines of relationship were drawn

The A.'.A.'., by contrast, would resemble a tree. The early 0=0 A.'.A.'. initiates studied with Crowley, and were given basic assignments, but generally expected to make their own way, judge their own progress, and form their own ideas with minimal guidance. After time, they took on students, who took on students...the authority was linear, but decentralized, because students would not necessarily know of each other, and might be learning slight variants on the original material due to the particular understanding of their superior/initiator.

The New Hermetics seems to have gone one step further and removed even a necessary superior, but rather provide the information openly. Open Source Argentum Astrum-style studies, much like the T.'.G.'.D.'., as opposed to the OSOGD which provides Open Source Lodge materials.

My group, for example, was set up using OSOGD materials, but is looking increasingly like an A.'.A.'. configuration within the membership...the people who are most serious are contacting me outside of formal meetings for more information, and doing most of their work apart from the less-committed members.

kaosxmage
December 29th, 2009, 01:34 AM
It's group-oriented vs. individual-oriented. The G.'.D.'. had a visible body of members, lodge meetings, business, discussions, officers, etc. If you were a 0=0 initiate, you learned from a range of people depending on their expertise, had people helping you along, etc. It would resemble a cloud if lines of relationship were drawn

The A.'.A.'., by contrast, would resemble a tree. The early 0=0 A.'.A.'. initiates studied with Crowley, and were given basic assignments, but generally expected to make their own way, judge their own progress, and form their own ideas with minimal guidance. After time, they took on students, who took on students...the authority was linear, but decentralized, because students would not necessarily know of each other, and might be learning slight variants on the original material due to the particular understanding of their superior/initiator.

The New Hermetics seems to have gone one step further and removed even a necessary superior, but rather provide the information openly. Open Source Argentum Astrum-style studies, much like the T.'.G.'.D.'., as opposed to the OSOGD which provides Open Source Lodge materials.

My group, for example, was set up using OSOGD materials, but is looking increasingly like an A.'.A.'. configuration within the membership...the people who are most serious are contacting me outside of formal meetings for more information, and doing most of their work apart from the less-committed members.

I see the difference, and how you relate it to The New Hermetics pretty clear now. Thank you!

--Kaos

kaosxmage
December 30th, 2009, 06:12 PM
I just received my copy in the mail. Sidhe, you're on the hook for a refund if I don't like it :alol: I'm joking of course.

I'll let you know what I think as I work my way through it.

--Kaos

sidhe
December 30th, 2009, 07:22 PM
I just received my copy in the mail. Sidhe, you're on the hook for a refund if I don't like it :alol: I'm joking of course.

OH NOEZ!!! :bigblue:

The only thing I don't like is sometimes it veers into pop-psychology self-help jargon...but as Newcomb is a hypnotherapist, that's possibly just the lexicon in which he's used to working.


I'll let you know what I think as I work my way through it.

--Kaos

His variant of the LBRP = Pure Win.

kaosxmage
December 30th, 2009, 07:34 PM
OH NOEZ!!! :bigblue:

The only thing I don't like is sometimes it veers into pop-psychology self-help jargon...but as Newcomb is a hypnotherapist, that's possibly just the lexicon in which he's used to working.

I'm a Hypnotherapist as well. I should be able to comb through the jargon. On a side note, Phil Farber is also a Hypnotherapist.

--Kaos

sidhe
December 30th, 2009, 09:31 PM
I'm a Hypnotherapist as well. I should be able to comb through the jargon. On a side note, Phil Farber is also a Hypnotherapist.

--Kaos

It seems to be a popular occupation among occultists.

I'm surprised there aren't more librarians, honestly. All the correspondences and such are basically a catalog of reality. I've been working, in fact, on a cataloging schema based on the Tree of Life...inherent metadata FTW!

kaosxmage
December 31st, 2009, 06:24 PM
His variant of the LBRP = Pure Win.

I've got to the Initiate work in the book. So far I'm really enjoying the way he writes. He's included enough R.A.W. ideas, and very well veiled Chaos Magick theory that I'm very excited to continue the book. It appears that he's included a great deal of NLP techniques as part of the work. That's very nice as well!

Now, I read through the variant of the LBRP. I like it, but what makes it the pure win in your eyes?

--Kaos

sidhe
January 1st, 2010, 12:06 AM
I've got to the Initiate work in the book. So far I'm really enjoying the way he writes. He's included enough R.A.W. ideas, and very well veiled Chaos Magick theory that I'm very excited to continue the book. It appears that he's included a great deal of NLP techniques as part of the work. That's very nice as well!

Now, I read through the variant of the LBRP. I like it, but what makes it the pure win in your eyes?

--Kaos

I like it because it strips it down to the essentials. No sectarian imagery, just the essence of the ritual. Now, I think learning the various forms of banishing pentagram rituals other than his is extremely important, but his provides the basic rubric of the core ritual.

Personally, I used to feel uncomfortable with the Judaeo-Christian imagery of the traditional LBRP. It's like the difference between seeing a blueprint and a fully decorated house - they may express the same thing, but the curtains are up in one.

kaosxmage
January 1st, 2010, 02:34 AM
Personally, I used to feel uncomfortable with the Judaeo-Christian imagery of the traditional LBRP. It's like the difference between seeing a blueprint and a fully decorated house - they may express the same thing, but the curtains are up in one.

I'm in agreement. My mind nor soul could ever get behind the Judeo-Christian underpinnings in the LBRP or much of what constitutes western magick. That's part of my enjoyment with this book so far. I haven't seen any of it yet. I've been involved with Chaos Magick for over a decade, but that paradigm just couldn't sit with me - and I was never in my life raised to Christian :hahugh: I just don't like it.

I did follow your link to the Open Source Order Golden Dawn, and I'm intrigued by their stripping away of those elements in favor of Pagan thought and practice. I'm going to read through their material soon as well.

I'm a definitely an occultist and some kind of pagan at heart, and Odin (among others from other pantheons, especially Isis) has always been my guide in these studies - whether they be archetypes, real, or imagined. Thus far ol' one eye hasn't expressed the sense of stop. In fact, I find it interesting that while meditating on Odin walking among us and wondering what he would explore, I had the very real impression to explore these ceremonial approaches after I abandoned this school of learning a decade ago.

Anyway, that's off point. Thank you again for sharing your insight.

--Kaos

sidhe
January 1st, 2010, 09:14 AM
I'm in agreement. My mind nor soul could ever get behind the Judeo-Christian underpinnings in the LBRP or much of what constitutes western magick. That's part of my enjoyment with this book so far. I haven't seen any of it yet. I've been involved with Chaos Magick for over a decade, but that paradigm just couldn't sit with me - and I was never in my life raised to Christian :hahugh: I just don't like it.

I wasn't raised Christian either. My background is Thelema and that generalized "Celtic paganism" that pervades my area due to the large number of Scots and Irish families. I became more comfortable with traditional ceremonial magick after learning more about Judaism when my sister converted, though Christianity still gives me headaches.

I also had a very strange experience where - as a teenager - I had constructed some basic visualizations and rituals for myself. Ten years later, I was researching the Feri tradition and discovered that my self-designed rituals and ideas were almost identical to some of the Feri practices. Were there a Feri group locally, I would pursue this in more depth.

PaganSpirit
January 2nd, 2010, 05:30 PM
This has certainly caught my interest. Much of my spirituality tends to be influenced by Hermeticism, and I tend to learn things better when they're stripped down to basics. I have a Barnes and Noble gift card to spend and I think I'd be interested in buying this book. :toofless:
Would anyone who's read this say it's an effective tool for attaining gnosis for a beginner?

kaosxmage
January 2nd, 2010, 05:49 PM
This has certainly caught my interest. Much of my spirituality tends to be influenced by Hermeticism, and I tend to learn things better when they're stripped down to basics. I have a Barnes and Noble gift card to spend and I think I'd be interested in buying this book. :toofless:
Would anyone who's read this say it's an effective tool for attaining gnosis for a beginner?

I've been an Occult explorer for years; and while I haven't finished this book yet, I would say it's an excellent place for one to get a start. I can highly recommend it based on what I've read so far. :thumbsup:

--Kaos

PaganSpirit
January 2nd, 2010, 07:18 PM
I think I will check it out, then. I think I find myself in a "find the quickest way to get results" sort of mindset pretty often, which isn't a terribly good thing, especially considering many of my goals are things that require copious amounts of patience (such as meditating to achieve an altered state of consciousness/higher state of awareness, etc.), but if I understand the way my mind likes to work, and I think I do, to a good extent, if something feels like it's quick and easy, I'll probably be better motivated to continue with it.

I guess I'm thinking of all the times I've tried to understand the material in my copy of The Golden Dawn, and just about everything else I've ever read about Hermetic Qabala and alchemy, and how confusing I've always found it. And then I think about how reading The Kyballion helped me to understand the ideas behind Hermeticism so much better (although I am skeptical about some things, because it seems that parts of it are a little bit more inspired by New Thought ideas).

sidhe
January 5th, 2010, 03:35 PM
I guess I'm thinking of all the times I've tried to understand the material in my copy of The Golden Dawn, and just about everything else I've ever read about Hermetic Qabala and alchemy, and how confusing I've always found it. And then I think about how reading The Kyballion helped me to understand the ideas behind Hermeticism so much better (although I am skeptical about some things, because it seems that parts of it are a little bit more inspired by New Thought ideas).

Actually, it's kind of the opposite - a lot of New Thought is inspired by old Hermetic principles...just kind of misapplied. Looking at the tenets of New Thought (as supplied by Wikipedia)...


Infinite Intelligence or God is omnipotent and omnipresent.
Spirit is the ultimate reality.
True human self-hood is divine.
Divinely attuned thought is a positive force for good.
All disease is mental in origin.
Right thinking has a healing effect.


The first three are roughly Hermetic, then the last three are the specific practices of New Thought.

So far as The New Hermetics goes, it does have some things in it that will appeal to a quick-n-easy mindset. I should know. I have a quick-n-easy...okay...no...that's not a mindset. That's my bad reputation...sorry, got confused. :bigredgri