Evil Gods?

[David19]

I was just wondering something, but, do you think there are things like evil Gods, normally, you'd only read about them in fantasy novels or some movies, but, do you think Gods that are evil exist, or do you think all Gods are all Good (that everything they do is beneficial in some way) or do you think they are neither, and just do what they please?.

For myself, and I say this as someone who doesn't really have a path and is kind of blurring the lines between Theism and Non-Theism (which, basically, means I haven't really connected to any path yet, but, I still kind of believe in the existence of Gods, kind of, I know that, probably, doesn't make any sense to anyone but myself), but, I kind of think there could be deities that can be considered evil Gods, but, I don't think they're deities you'd read about in any Mythology book. Like in Mesopotamian texts, they wrote references to evil deities, demons, ghosts (who may have just been the dead who were barred from the Netherworld), witches, etc, in Gnosticism, you have beings like the Archons, and others, which can be considered godlike, and, probably, some gods, in some sense anyway, in Hinduism, you have the Asura's and other beings, which include deities (I may be wrong on this, but, I think Asura can refer to beings like your average demon all the way to deities), etc. Anyway, I kind of think there could be gods that are evil, but, what about you?, do you agree, disagree, have a completely different view, etc?.

Thanks for any replies :).

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I truthfuly do no ascribe good or evil to the gods / goddesses for I think they are what ever they need to be at that moment in time. Even the notion of what is a good action and what is an evil action is to heavily swayed by ones position in comparrison to the action.

For instance when Jehova killed the first born of Egypt that would be seen as a pretty evil thing if it was your son that was killed. Yet if your son was one of his chosen then it was good and a retribution for the wrongs against his people and thier bondage.

Take Artemis on one hand she is seen as good and helpful and called upon by many. Yet she is equally seen as evil in some instances where she takes vengance against a woman by killing all her daughters. If a mother died in childbirth it was seen as being kissed by an arrow from Artemis. Yet a difficult delivery would be seen as having Artemis present but not watching over her. A delivery that was very easy and pain free was also attributed to Artemis being present and helping to ease her pain and suffering of childbirth.

I truly think the notion of the goodness or evilness of a given god / goddess depends upon their position in the public eye. If well liked and though of all their acts are good even if they result in hard times. Yet it the diety is less accepted or well knonw then it is almost reverse as the populace only see's the negative traits.

Look at Hekate with the above. Early on a goddess associated with childbirth and home. Later she becomes more associated with the darker facets of life until eventually she is more so seen in literature and such as an evil omen than a blessing. Even a corruption of her tri-headed persona as times and perspective of the populace change.

[Nox_Mortus]

I'm going to define evil in this case as "malevolent towards humanity in general" and yes I think there are a few like that, although I think the chances of actually having to deal with them is rather slim.

[MountainMan391]

I agree with MonSno_LeeDra; I don't ascribe good/evil to the gods; which, in my case, are the Æsir and the Vanir. Sure, what they DO could sometimes be considered good or evil, depending on where you're coming from. However, in general, I don't believe them to be any better or worse than us human beings.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I'm going to define evil in this case as "malevolent towards humanity in general" and yes I think there are a few like that, although I think the chances of actually having to deal with them is rather slim.

I agree that there are creature's that are malevolent towards mankind in general. My problem there lies in the fact most of them I do not attribute to the status of gods / goddesses. Perhaps the most common that springs to mind is Lillith, yet I equate her as a named demoness not a goddess.

[Elea Dor]

I'm still seeking my path... but the way I understand Divinity is that all gods and goddesses are like interpretations of a huge unknowable "presence" (for lack of a better word). These interpretations are unconsciously created by humankind as a way of understanding Divinity; some have it as one god, others understand it better by having multiple gods. (In other words, I'm a soft-polytheist.)

And what does this have to do with the original question? I suppose that the presence of evil gods would have to do with an individual's interpretation of Divinity. (Which I suppose sounds like a lame answer, in retrospect... :toofless:)

[Torey]

Yes, I believe that there are 'evil' gods/deities who have a hatred for Mankind and possibly other deities, etc.

Yes, I believe that the acts of some gods/deities may be seen as evil.

[Calli]

In order to answer that, I'd have to define evil. I'm still struggling with that. Many things that I once considered evil, I now do without batting an eye. So, I'm still stuck on the definition. My first thought was that the term 'evil gods' is an oxymoron, so we can go with that, I guess.

[Laisrean]

Having read a good amount of Graeco-Roman Mythology, I can say with total conviction that there are indeed such a thing as evil Gods. As a matter of fact, it seems that most of the Greek pantheon is guilty of some atrocity or other. The Gods have been known to rape, kill, subject to torture, transform into animals, condemn to roll a boulder for eternity, etc.

So the Gods are definitely beings you don't want to mess with or piss off. They aren't fluffy and gentle like Jesus or Buddha.

[Vigdisdotter]

No, I don't. Nor do I believe that gods a "good."

Good and Evil are human conceptualizations. And since the gods are not human, it seems silly to shoehorn them in to that dichotomy.

[Nachtigall]

I agree that there are creature's that are malevolent towards mankind in general. My problem there lies in the fact most of them I do not attribute to the status of gods / goddesses. Perhaps the most common that springs to mind is Lillith, yet I equate her as a named demoness not a goddess.
I agree with that, the creatures, that can be called evil, are considered demons, not gods.
Still, I sometimes hear, that the gods I honor are evil (and therefore, all their worshipers must be evil in some way too), because they are associated with things that can be considered evil - death, destruction, winter etc. I don't agree with this point of view, and it was not the view of the ancient pagans either.

[Pagan's Sword]

I believe that you cannot have "good" Gods/Goddesses without having "evil" ones. Just as there are good people and bad people. The trick is finding balance. Everything both good and evil has it's place in the scheme of things. Otherwise how could we appreciate the light, unless we've experience the darkness.

[Nachtigall]

I believe that you cannot have "good" Gods/Goddesses without having "evil" ones. Just as there are good people and bad people. The trick is finding balance. Everything both good and evil has it's place in the scheme of things. Otherwise how could we appreciate the light, unless we've experience the darkness.
Are there any gods that are always only "good" to people? I don't think so...
And again, why do we associate "light" with "good" and "darkness" with "evil"?

[Spica]

I voted "they might."

As above, so below. The old testament is filled with great examples of evil coming from above.

[Meadhbh]

I don't know if the terms good and evil would apply. Some times things we may not define as good from our point of view have to happen. The balance between creation and destruction has to be maintined after all. To that end things like earth quakes, plagues ect have to take place. We may think such things fall into the things which are not good files. But to keep the ecosystem and such in balance they have to take place. It depends on what scale your looking at.

[BryonMorrigan]

I agree with MonSno_LeeDra; I don't ascribe good/evil to the gods; which, in my case, are the Æsir and the Vanir. Sure, what they DO could sometimes be considered good or evil, depending on where you're coming from. However, in general, I don't believe them to be any better or worse than us human beings.


Exactly. Even the "bad guy" deities in the Norse pantheon (Loki, the Jotun, etc.) aren't really "evil" so much as selfish or greedy.

(But then, I don't actually believe in the concept of "evil," so there you go. Even Hitler thought he was doing the "right" thing. He just had an effed up view of what he believed to be "right.")

[Lunacie]

I suppose the gods have good days and bad days. Have the gods sometimes done things which have been seen as being "evil?" You betcha. I don't think that makes them purely evil though. I can't name anything that purely good or evil, or anything else. Life is much more complicated than that.

[thought_on_a_wind]

I was just wondering something, but, do you think there are things like evil Gods, normally, you'd only read about them in fantasy novels or some movies, but, do you think Gods that are evil exist, or do you think all Gods are all Good (that everything they do is beneficial in some way) or do you think they are neither, and just do what they please?.

For myself, and I say this as someone who doesn't really have a path and is kind of blurring the lines between Theism and Non-Theism (which, basically, means I haven't really connected to any path yet, but, I still kind of believe in the existence of Gods, kind of, I know that, probably, doesn't make any sense to anyone but myself), but, I kind of think there could be deities that can be considered evil Gods, but, I don't think they're deities you'd read about in any Mythology book. Like in Mesopotamian texts, they wrote references to evil deities, demons, ghosts (who may have just been the dead who were barred from the Netherworld), witches, etc, in Gnosticism, you have beings like the Archons, and others, which can be considered godlike, and, probably, some gods, in some sense anyway, in Hinduism, you have the Asura's and other beings, which include deities (I may be wrong on this, but, I think Asura can refer to beings like your average demon all the way to deities), etc. Anyway, I kind of think there could be gods that are evil, but, what about you?, do you agree, disagree, have a completely different view, etc?.

Thanks for any replies :).
this is the ill-educated person on the subject talking as I don't follow a set path due to the inconsistencies of mans views vs the universe (at least to one such as myself... so IMO)... However, in the realm of deity and just about anything that isn't directly connected to a humans relative views, perceptions, encounters and beliefs one has a real hard time discovering this shadow term "evil", a sun goes super nova and wipes out three solar systems, much death has just occured, but at the same time a planet far away enough not to be destroyed just received enough energy from the explosion to feed the seeds of life, is that act evil? even were the sun to have had a consciousness and decided to wipe out the other solar systems for the sheer thrill of it?

I believe the term evil is in and of itself deceptive and evil, its a way of taking things out of proportion (most times) and subjecting someone to the scapegoat category. I find it very hard to attach such a title to a deity as even the ones considered "good" have done some very decidedly evil things, and some of the gods are attributed to a little bit of nasty streak that should give them that title, even though there are other things they do that supposedly make up for the "evil".

I chose no because quite simply I cannot assert such a title on something non-human. I believe, however, that there are dark gods, and that these dark gods are misunderstood...

[thought_on_a_wind]

Are there any gods that are always only "good" to people? I don't think so...
And again, why do we associate "light" with "good" and "darkness" with "evil"?
mostly due to the fact that humans associate good with daylight. though not everyone is diurnal, the greater portion of humanity is, and as such, since there are millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of social conditioning involved, and also due to the fact that we still have that very strong, very alive hunter gatherer fight or flight response too...

Most humans feel comfortable in the "light" or feel "good" as the light ensures that they can see there prey as well as the predators. Dark is associated with "bad" or evil because it's harder to see those things worth hunting, or who are doing the hunting. And that hits another gigantic human relic, "fear of the unknown"....

really, that's all I can figure out about it, that's just about the only answer that's seemed to make sense over the years... and for me has.... withstood the "light of day"

Blessed Be,
Thought

[Brightshores]

No, I don't. Nor do I believe that gods a "good."

Good and Evil are human conceptualizations. And since the gods are not human, it seems silly to shoehorn them in to that dichotomy.
I agree. I think "good" and "evil" are subjective.

"Nice" vs. "Mean," or "Friendly to people" vs "don't mess with them" - absolutely. Good vs. Evil? I don't know...

[kaosxmage]

I'm going to define evil in this case as "malevolent towards humanity in general"

I agree with this. There seem to be those that you just wouldn't want to cross paths with. However, the term of good and evil seems too exact to describe most of the Gods in mythologies.

--Kaos

[TuathaSidhe]

I use the term Good and Evil loosely....

No, I dont think any god is *evil* anymore than I think they are *good*. I think that some gods find their niche and stick with it and its just them. *Good* and *evil* can be very subjective on who you ask, but I think its more of human terms than godly ones.

I believe that a *good* god/ess could do an act of *evil* if it is needed or they felt it was needed or whatever. I also think a *evil* god/ess could possible do something *good*, again, if they felt it was needed or if the mood just strikes them to.

A god/ess that is normally seen as *evil* may call upon someone and come across as *good* to them, and vice versa.

Its all a matter of perspective. IMHO

[Darth Brooks]

I firmly believe in the existence of evil entities like Apep, who want only to destroy everything, including the Gods, and to drag all things back into a primordial state of inactivity, never to return. But strictly speaking, Apep is not really a deity, or at least not in any conventional sense of the term.

[Xx.TheUnforgiven.xX]

I think that weather a god is 'evil or not' is all on your point-of-view on there actions. But I say this... Where would good be without bad? There has to be 'evil' for there to be 'good'. Just like you need a 'villein' for there to be a 'hero'. So maybe there are 'evil' gods and goddesses. _inabox_

[David19]

I'm going to define evil in this case as "malevolent towards humanity in general" and yes I think there are a few like that, although I think the chances of actually having to deal with them is rather slim.


Yes, I believe that there are 'evil' gods/deities who have a hatred for Mankind and possibly other deities, etc.

Yes, I believe that the acts of some gods/deities may be seen as evil.

I think you 2 just stated my thoughts in better words :) :thumbsup:.


I agree that there are creature's that are malevolent towards mankind in general. My problem there lies in the fact most of them I do not attribute to the status of gods / goddesses. Perhaps the most common that springs to mind is Lillith, yet I equate her as a named demoness not a goddess.

If you don't mind me asking, how come you don't think evil (as in malevolent towards humanity or others) beings could be of godhood status?.



Having read a good amount of Graeco-Roman Mythology, I can say with total conviction that there are indeed such a thing as evil Gods. As a matter of fact, it seems that most of the Greek pantheon is guilty of some atrocity or other. The Gods have been known to rape, kill, subject to torture, transform into animals, condemn to roll a boulder for eternity, etc.

So the Gods are definitely beings you don't want to mess with or piss off. They aren't fluffy and gentle like Jesus or Buddha.

This may be OT, but, the ancient Greeks/Hellenes, and modern day worshippers of those Gods, don't take their Myths literally.

[Philosophia]

No, I don't. Nor do I believe that gods a "good."

Good and Evil are human conceptualizations. And since the gods are not human, it seems silly to shoehorn them in to that dichotomy.

I agree. Good and Evil is very subjective, based upon a person's beliefs.

[David19]

I firmly believe in the existence of evil entities like Apep, who want only to destroy everything, including the Gods, and to drag all things back into a primordial state of inactivity, never to return. But strictly speaking, Apep is not really a deity, or at least not in any conventional sense of the term.

I agree, although, I tend to think there could be other agents of isfet who work with/for Apep that could be defined as deities. Beings who, like Apep, want to destroy everything - humans, other Gods, creation itself, etc.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

David19 wrote:

If you don't mind me asking, how come you don't think evil (as in malevolent towards humanity or others) beings could be of godhood status?.



I suppose the main reason is that it is mostly in the Abrahamic religions that I see this notion of a evil incarnate figure. Not only evil but a figure out to destroy or undermine mankind and lead them astray. I find it pretty much also an Abrahamic notion of mankind being raised above demi-god like figures to create the anamosity that will cultivate and inspire such a notion.

In other mythologies and stories there are forces that seek to undermine and destroy both gods and humanity but they are not gods themselves nor are they singulary pointed towards humanity. Some perhaps are proto-god figures such as the Titans other's more of a anti-god figure such as the giants of nordic lore or even the mid-guard serpent.

I tend to think that most that would warrent the demise of humanity also want the demise of the god figures as well. Yet many seem more aligned at the demise and destruction of the stability and structure the gods represent and a return to the chaotic nature of the universe.

[MoonChild78]

I went with the maybe answer. (There Might). This is because I think that the idea of a good v. evil God/dess is a left over concept from my christian upbringing. In that way, it is very clear that there is a "good" figure (God, Jesus, Mary, the Saints) and that there is a "evil" figure (Satan). To me though, I feel that good/evil, nice/mean, ect. are all necessary to life. Without one, how can you know the other? If the weather is always sunny then how can you appreciate it if it never rains? Are there God/desses I tend not to work with ... yes. Is it because I think they are evil... no, I think that if I work with them it might be because I have a negative intention and I don't want to piss 'em off by taking advantage. Do some people out there do that and not blink an eye. Of course... I'm not blind. However, I do feel that there are God/desses that have been called on and used in an evil manner thus making them evil even though they are not but it's a causality of crappy people doing crappy things.

Ok, I hope that made sense.

[Nachtigall]

If you don't mind me asking, how come you don't think evil (as in malevolent towards humanity or others) beings could be of godhood status?.

But are there any actual examples of such deities in mythology?

[David19]

I suppose the main reason is that it is mostly in the Abrahamic religions that I see this notion of a evil incarnate figure. Not only evil but a figure out to destroy or undermine mankind and lead them astray. I find it pretty much also an Abrahamic notion of mankind being raised above demi-god like figures to create the anamosity that will cultivate and inspire such a notion.

In other mythologies and stories there are forces that seek to undermine and destroy both gods and humanity but they are not gods themselves nor are they singulary pointed towards humanity. Some perhaps are proto-god figures such as the Titans other's more of a anti-god figure such as the giants of nordic lore or even the mid-guard serpent.

I tend to think that most that would warrent the demise of humanity also want the demise of the god figures as well. Yet many seem more aligned at the demise and destruction of the stability and structure the gods represent and a return to the chaotic nature of the universe.

I read some one article about Hinduism which said, in a deeper way, the antigods that you find in Hindu Mythology can also include Gods, which, I think, means you have your average demons going all the way up to Godhood among the evil side in Hinduism, some may be less evil than others, though (OT, I kind of think there's a lot of very cool things in Hinduism, like a lot of what can be found in modern day fantasy that people love can be found in Hinduism as well, as well many other achievements).

In Zoroastrianism, you also get divinities allied with Ahriman.


But are there any actual examples of such deities in mythology?

Yes, Ahriman from Zoroastrian Mythology, tales from Hindu Mythology, Apep from Kemetic (Egyptian) Mythology, etc.

[Nachtigall]

Yes, Ahriman from Zoroastrian Mythology, tales from Hindu Mythology, Apep from Kemetic (Egyptian) Mythology, etc.
Apep is not a god. Ahriman - yes, he fits there... but as for me, Zoroastrianism is different from other ancient pagan religions in many ways (and I think, its followers don't like being called pagans nowadays). Hindu mythology - may be... but what exactly are the names of this evil gods? And were they really considered evil?

For example, one can also name the Slavic Chernobog, whose name literally meant "the Black God", and who was associated with death, destruction etc. At first sight, he can easily be called evil. But the point is, he wasn't treated like Satan, Apep, or Ahriman. He was commonly worshiped, sometimes even within the same ritual with Belobog, "the White God". These two gods may seem to be enemies, but they really complement each other and are both needed for balance in Universe.

[Laisrean]

Zoroastrianism is a Monotheistic religion (the world's first, btw), so it can't be considered Pagan. If you consider that Pagan, then you might as well say the Abrahamic religions are Pagan as well.

[David19]

Apep is not a god. Ahriman - yes, he fits there... but as for me, Zoroastrianism is different from other ancient pagan religions in many ways (and I think, its followers don't like being called pagans nowadays). Hindu mythology - may be... but what exactly are the names of this evil gods? And were they really considered evil?

For example, one can also name the Slavic Chernobog, whose name literally meant "the Black God", and who was associated with death, destruction etc. At first sight, he can easily be called evil. But the point is, he wasn't treated like Satan, Apep, or Ahriman. He was commonly worshiped, sometimes even within the same ritual with Belobog, "the White God". These two gods may seem to be enemies, but they really complement each other and are both needed for balance in Universe.


Apep isn't exactly a demon either, you're right he's, probably, an entirely different order of being, and Zoroastrianism may not be Pagan, but, you said show you any deity from Mythology that is an evil God, Mythology does not equal Paganism, everything religion has a Mythology.

As for Hindu Mythology, there called the Asuras, which one scholar (http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/index.html) of Hinduism, who has written many great articles in defence of Hinduism, said (http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/kaliyuga.html):


Clearly, if we use a single word, “God,” for such conflicting concepts as the Semitic and the Indian, we land ourselves in total confusion. “God is one,” perhaps, in the Vedantic sense that all is ultimately one, because all is ultimately divine, and yet Hindu inquiry always discerned a whole hierarchy of beings, not all equally true or luminous : a rakshasa, for instance, cannot be equated with a Sri Krishna. Some may object to calling the Biblical or Koranic god an Asura, but I use the word in the deeper sense of a mighty god who comes to his fall owing to ambition or pride

Clearly, the Asura's can be considered Gods, from what I've read, there's a whole hierarchy of beings, ranging from your average demon that may possess people or buildings, to Gods, some of whom maybe evil, some may be hostile to humanity or have their own agendas, but, not quite evil, etc.



Zoroastrianism is a Monotheistic religion (the world's first, btw), so it can't be considered Pagan. If you consider that Pagan, then you might as well say the Abrahamic religions are Pagan as well.

True, but, they do have a Mythology, and Nachtigall asked for Gods from Mythology. Ahriman is an example.

[Nachtigall]

Zoroastrianism may not be Pagan, but, you said show you any deity from Mythology that is an evil God, Mythology does not equal Paganism, everything religion has a Mythology.
True, although I assumed that we are discussing Pagan Mythology. If not, then one can certainly mention Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, some Christian heresies...



As for Hindu Mythology, there called the Asuras, which one scholar (http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/index.html) of Hinduism, who has written many great articles in defence of Hinduism, said (http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/kaliyuga.html):
Clearly, the Asura's can be considered Gods, from what I've read, there's a whole hierarchy of beings, ranging from your average demon that may possess people or buildings, to Gods, some of whom maybe evil, some may be hostile to humanity or have their own agendas, but, not quite evil, etc.

What I've asked for is a name of one specific evil being that is clearly considered a God. But, well, since I am not an expert in Hinduism, I guess, I'll just do my own research on this matter:).

[Darth Brooks]

Zoroastrianism is a Monotheistic religion (the world's first, btw), so it can't be considered Pagan.

Zoroastrianism is only monotheistic in the sense that only one of the Two Gods is worshiped (i.e., Ahura Mazda). But it's nevertheless a dualist faith because it believes in not one, not many, but Two Gods. (I.e., Ahriman is independent from and completely equal to Ahura Mazda in every way - which is a major difference from how most monotheistic religions view theodicy.)

BTW, Akhenaten's cult of the Aten was the very first completely monotheistic religion, not Zoroastrianism.


If you consider that Pagan, then you might as well say the Abrahamic religions are Pagan as well.As far as I'm concerned, they are. They just don't realize it. Monotheism was originally a pagan invention, as Akhenaten proves. It's illogical and fallacious to claim that something can't be pagan just because it's monotheistic.

[aluokaloo]

i'm not sure if there are or not anymore. the universe and everything in it runs off of neccessity and survival even that neccessity isn't good for it's living participants. so no i don't think so.

[David19]

Zoroastrianism is only monotheistic in the sense that only one of the Two Gods is worshiped (i.e., Ahura Mazda). But it's nevertheless a dualist faith because it believes in not one, not many, but Two Gods. (I.e., Ahriman is independent from and completely equal to Ahura Mazda in every way - which is a major difference from how most monotheistic religions view theodicy.)

BTW, Akhenaten's cult of the Aten was the very first completely monotheistic religion, not Zoroastrianism.

As far as I'm concerned, they are. They just don't realize it. Monotheism was originally a pagan invention, as Akhenaten proves. It's illogical and fallacious to claim that something can't be pagan just because it's monotheistic.

QFT, also, in regards to Zoroastrianism, in a book I've got called 'Religions of the Ancient World' by Sarah Iles Johnston (http://www.amazon.com/Religions-Ancient-World-University-Reference/dp/0674015177) (of which you can read parts of on Google Books (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=uvtebmqZZDYC&dq=religions+of+the+ancient+world+a+guide&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=OoROS6OCD5Tu0gTe4rjLBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false)), it includes Zoroastrianism, and actually says, while, in our modern day, Zoroastrianism will state they are Monotheistic, it's not as clear-cut as that, and they can fit in just as easily into a Polytheistic framework, for example, many of the Persian Kings, who were Zoroastrian, like Cyrus (the one who freed the Jews), believed in many Gods, there were good Gods on the side of Ahura Mazda, and evil Gods on the side of Ahriman, he had an mystical experience with YHWH, which revealed he was on the side of Ahura Mazda's side, which prompted him to free the Jews, to rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem, apparantly, Cyrus let each group he conquered worship their own God(s), which I find very cool and great. Apparantly, something I've read is that Zoroastrians would study a God or Gods for an extensive time period and see which side it was on.

Persian/Iranian/Zoroastrian Mythology is definitely something I find very interesting.

[David19]

I believe there are many layers to the spiritual/divine realm and that the lower levels have a tendency to "fall" and succumb to what we would know as "Selfishness" or other human-like characteristics. These aeons/deities are a part of the greater Divinity, but they will often only work for their own purposes. In their refusing to acknowledge much that is greater than themselves (as I believe All are a part of the One), this often creates a path that we might see as "evil".

I don't necessarily believe in good and evil though, more or less just "right and wrong," which I consider to be a little different. Evil to me generally implies a "nature" or "inherent characteristic" -- I don't believe anything Divine is inherently evil and unable to change. They simply make the choices they do, be them for positive or negative.

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it :), BTW, you wouldn't happen to follow a Gnostic path, would you?, I'm just asking 'cause I happen to like learning about that too, and what you described sounds very Gnostic to me ;) :).

[Avalanche]

I don't really think that gods are good and evil. But that's because I don't see anything as good and evil. As far as I'm concerned, good and evil is all relative. And I don't think anyone out there really goes out and says they want to be "evil." The same for the gods. I don't think they just decide to be evil and destroy everything or whatever it is evil things are supposed to do. It might seem evil to us if it negatively affects us, but they would still think they're doing the right thing.

[Jolixte]

I think all gods are evil.

[RoseKitten]

I don't really think that gods are good and evil. But that's because I don't see anything as good and evil. As far as I'm concerned, good and evil is all relative. And I don't think anyone out there really goes out and says they want to be "evil." The same for the gods. I don't think they just decide to be evil and destroy everything or whatever it is evil things are supposed to do. It might seem evil to us if it negatively affects us, but they would still think they're doing the right thing.

I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.

While yes, good and evil are relative terms.... many people choose to be evil. When done right, it's fun. So is being good, but in very different ways. Some gods simply enjoy causing havoc in the world.

[David19]

haha yes I do, though not in the "traditional" (post-Christian first-century) sense. I'm following a path of Gnosis through Paganism :) I'm finding it quite enlightening so far.. the journey will be long and I'm looking forward to it :uhhuhuh:

Thanks for telling me and that's quite a cool journey you must be on :).

[David19]

I don't really think that gods are good and evil. But that's because I don't see anything as good and evil. As far as I'm concerned, good and evil is all relative. And I don't think anyone out there really goes out and says they want to be "evil." The same for the gods. I don't think they just decide to be evil and destroy everything or whatever it is evil things are supposed to do. It might seem evil to us if it negatively affects us, but they would still think they're doing the right thing.


I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.

While yes, good and evil are relative terms.... many people choose to be evil. When done right, it's fun. So is being good, but in very different ways. Some gods simply enjoy causing havoc in the world.

I'm going to agree with RoseKitten here, there are people out there who do choose to do evil, and, also, just 'cause Hitler may have thought what he did was "right" and "good", but, that doesn't make him anything but evil, paedophiles think what they do is "right", but, they are definitely very evil, etc, sometimes, evil isn't just subjective.

I also agree with the rest of RoseKitten's post.

[Avalanche]

I'm going to agree with RoseKitten here, there are people out there who do choose to do evil, and, also, just 'cause Hitler may have thought what he did was "right" and "good", but, that doesn't make him anything but evil, paedophiles think what they do is "right", but, they are definitely very evil, etc, sometimes, evil isn't just subjective.

I also agree with the rest of RoseKitten's post.

But it's not evil from their point of view, is it? You even said yourself that they think they're right. And maybe most of the rest of the world thinks they're evil lunatics, but there's probably at least one other nutjob out there who thinks they're right and the rest of us are evil. This is why I say it's relative. They're not saying that they're going to go do whatever it is they're doing to be evil - they're doing it because they think it's right/normal/okay.

And as far as pedophiles go, I think that is very subjective. I can't think of any modern cultures that do it, but wasn't that common in ancient Greece? Actually, I know the Samburu tribe has girls getting married as soon as they hit puberty. Does that mean the Samburu are evil? Maybe they're evil to you, but they're not deciding to marry off the girls because they want to be evil. It's because that's what they do in their culture.

[Hamelyn]

I voted no.

It's been said, but I voted no because I think morality is an artificial thing, not an inherent thing. It's wildly subjective, based on the needs and values of a given individual or culture. The things I call Gods and Goddesses behave as their natures dictate, and those natures may or may not represent human morality. So a person might call a god evil, but what they're really saying is that they find it repelling. I don't think such a thing as inherent good or inherent evil really exists.

There's a cool Greek concept that only humans have morality, because Gods have neither need for morality nor frame of reference for it, which is why they can be so callous, and because animals have no need for it in their instinctual lives. (I've heard it said before that there are no punishments in nature, only consequences. It sounded like a quote, but I'm not sure where it came from.) I'm not saying I agree with these ideas in totality, but I think it's a good example of how some ancient religions were able to not take all their myths as literal truth.

As was also said, I don't really equate dark or light with good or evil. That understanding- the classic "no white or black magic, just power and will with intent" argument- was one of the things that made the neopagan religions make sense to me, and is a major part of why I follow them today.

[RoseKitten]

But it's not evil from their point of view, is it? You even said yourself that they think they're right. And maybe most of the rest of the world thinks they're evil lunatics, but there's probably at least one other nutjob out there who thinks they're right and the rest of us are evil. This is why I say it's relative. They're not saying that they're going to go do whatever it is they're doing to be evil - they're doing it because they think it's right/normal/okay.

And as far as pedophiles go, I think that is very subjective. I can't think of any modern cultures that do it, but wasn't that common in ancient Greece? Actually, I know the Samburu tribe has girls getting married as soon as they hit puberty. Does that mean the Samburu are evil? Maybe they're evil to you, but they're not deciding to marry off the girls because they want to be evil. It's because that's what they do in their culture.

And what about people like me that know what they do is considered evil by their own culture? I know that some of the things I do are evil, and are considered such by my own peers.

Many people, and gods, do "evil" deeds by our own cultures standards.

[Louisvillian]

I do not believe that there are evil gods, in the grand sense of the word. At the same time, I do not necessarily believe the gods are all good. They are supernatural, metaphysical beings; they are beyond good or evil.

Now, if we define "evil" as "malevolence towards humans", then I'm sure there probably are. If we define "good" as "benevolence towards humans", then I'm sure we'd fine some of those, too. Probably more, considering that our species is still around; if the gods wanted humanity gone, they could've fragged us at any time.

[VioletJadeWolf]

Personally, I think that no god or goddess is purely good or purely evil, if that makes any sense.

[David19]

But it's not evil from their point of view, is it? You even said yourself that they think they're right. And maybe most of the rest of the world thinks they're evil lunatics, but there's probably at least one other nutjob out there who thinks they're right and the rest of us are evil. This is why I say it's relative. They're not saying that they're going to go do whatever it is they're doing to be evil - they're doing it because they think it's right/normal/okay.

There are some things that aren't subjective, what Hitler did was evil and wrong, whatever he may have thought or his neo-Nazi's supporters.


And as far as pedophiles go, I think that is very subjective. I can't think of any modern cultures that do it, but wasn't that common in ancient Greece? Actually, I know the Samburu tribe has girls getting married as soon as they hit puberty. Does that mean the Samburu are evil? Maybe they're evil to you, but they're not deciding to marry off the girls because they want to be evil. It's because that's what they do in their culture.

Actually, that's not true, the ancient Hellenes (Greeks) did have laws against pedophilia, people wanting to have sex with young kids were punished and, I think, banned from the City State (if I'm remembering correctly), they did have an institution where an older male would mentor a young boy, but, no sex was involved.

[Torey]

There are some things that aren't subjective, what Hitler did was evil and wrong, whatever he may have thought or his neo-Nazi's supporters.

That's kind of a contradiction. Supporters of Hitler did not believe what he did was evil, therefore Hiter = evil is, indeed, subjective.

[Doodlebug]

I'm honestly not sure. I suppose it's possible that they exist.

[Winter_Witch]

No, I do not believe in "good" or "evil" deities. They just are. The Dark God/desses are the ones that make you look very deeply within yourself, and that could drive a person mad depending on their findings. But that's not evil imo.